I was pleasantly surprised at how much I loved the supporting cast. Yelena will probably end up on the next Avengers team and I'm 100% for it.
Also
MCU Taskmaster is better than the comic version. I hope she comes back in some form.
Yeah, you're going to have to elaborate here. What about her complete lack of character makes her better than the version with character?
A formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom means to her is a far more interesting character than Badass Mercenary Man #83.
That's certainly not a story that is in this film for Taskmaster. It's also literally the story of all the Black Widows. And Taskmaster isn't a bad-ass generic mercenary man, that's such a reductive take on his character. You can like the blank, featureless void that is MCU Taskmaster, but you should probably have just avoided the qualifier "better than the comic version" as I'm guessing your knowledge of the character is based on ...well not the character certainly.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Finally got around to Black Widow. Very good movie overall and a great send off. But man that very last scene
I am thrilled that Julia Louis-Dreyfus is sewing chaos throughout the new MCU.
I really, really hope she's in it for the long haul. She is utterly perfect as a sleazy mastermind and I didn't know this was originally supposed to be her first appearance.
I was pleasantly surprised at how much I loved the supporting cast. Yelena will probably end up on the next Avengers team and I'm 100% for it.
Also
MCU Taskmaster is better than the comic version. I hope she comes back in some form.
Yeah, you're going to have to elaborate here. What about her complete lack of character makes her better than the version with character?
A formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom means to her is a far more interesting character than Badass Mercenary Man #83.
The whole point of taskmaster was less that he was a generic goon and more of the guy you call in to act as a drill seargent to train up your army of goons. Further, part of the catch with how his powers work is that it also interferes with his long term memory as I recall and as such the dude struggles to remember things from more then 6 months ago that aren't being kept fresh in his memory
Replacing him with "generic silent antagonist with a tragic background" is not exactly an improvement.
I don't like Spider-Man as an Avenger and I'm kinda hoping that with whatever multi universe shennanigans happen in his next movie his next adventures are a bit more low key.
I was pleasantly surprised at how much I loved the supporting cast. Yelena will probably end up on the next Avengers team and I'm 100% for it.
Also
MCU Taskmaster is better than the comic version. I hope she comes back in some form.
Yeah, you're going to have to elaborate here. What about her complete lack of character makes her better than the version with character?
A formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom means to her is a far more interesting character than Badass Mercenary Man #83.
Maybe the comics have a lot of generic Badass Mercenary Men but the MCU doesn't...? And after the hype from some of my friends I was curious about this new character, who sadly turns out to be a non-character. As a non-comics reader it really feels like Deadpool from X-Men Origins: Wolverine where again my friends were nerding out about Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool and... oh. Then years later I learn how right they were.
The movie doesn't even establish why the fuck she was mind controlled. In her brief appearance as a child she seemed happy to see her father, and then Black Widow blew up the building and horribly maimed her to the point of requiring cybernetic reconstruction.
I'm pretty sure she'd want to kill Natasha without any magic mind control bullshit required!
I don't have a horse in the race but for a guy whose name I knew from social osmosis this was a letdown, I had no fucking clue who Crossbones was until well after he was dead and he had more character.
Also this is a bit silly nitpicky but we don't actually know she was a child soldier, for all we know the events of the movie are her first mission lol :P
Spidey is still good as it sets itself up for jokes in him being one of the "elder" avengers now leading to lots of bad advice and bucky/cap just shaking their heads.
Also, is anyone going to pass up enthusiastic Spidey/laconic Yelena interactions?
Spidey is still good as it sets itself up for jokes in him being one of the "elder" avengers now leading to lots of bad advice and bucky/cap just shaking their heads.
Also, is anyone going to pass up enthusiastic Spidey/laconic Yelena interactions?
Still hilarious.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited July 2021
I figured the way they were going with Yelena was (Hawkeye series and Captain America series spoilers)
Being in the Thunderbolts, what with Fontaine recruiting her to go after Hawkguy. She also recruits Jerk Captain America, so I figured it was building up a Thuderbolts/Dark Avengers thing.
I was pleasantly surprised at how much I loved the supporting cast. Yelena will probably end up on the next Avengers team and I'm 100% for it.
Also
MCU Taskmaster is better than the comic version. I hope she comes back in some form.
Yeah, you're going to have to elaborate here. What about her complete lack of character makes her better than the version with character?
A formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom means to her is a far more interesting character than Badass Mercenary Man #83.
The whole point of taskmaster was less that he was a generic goon and more of the guy you call in to act as a drill seargent to train up your army of goons. Further, part of the catch with how his powers work is that it also interferes with his long term memory as I recall and as such the dude struggles to remember things from more then 6 months ago that aren't being kept fresh in his memory
Replacing him with "generic silent antagonist with a tragic background" is not exactly an improvement.
It's a downgrade, but formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom's sub-plot was taken by Yelena. This was Taskmaster's origins, she didn't die they can go anywhere with her now. It's like Bucky in Winter Soldier.
There's also room for more than one interpretation of the character, and I'd be happy to get more of the established version or a different one down the line. It's cool they use them at all.
I was pleasantly surprised at how much I loved the supporting cast. Yelena will probably end up on the next Avengers team and I'm 100% for it.
Also
MCU Taskmaster is better than the comic version. I hope she comes back in some form.
Yeah, you're going to have to elaborate here. What about her complete lack of character makes her better than the version with character?
A formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom means to her is a far more interesting character than Badass Mercenary Man #83.
The whole point of taskmaster was less that he was a generic goon and more of the guy you call in to act as a drill seargent to train up your army of goons. Further, part of the catch with how his powers work is that it also interferes with his long term memory as I recall and as such the dude struggles to remember things from more then 6 months ago that aren't being kept fresh in his memory
Replacing him with "generic silent antagonist with a tragic background" is not exactly an improvement.
It's a downgrade, but formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom's sub-plot was taken by Yelena. This was Taskmaster's origins, she didn't die they can go anywhere with her now. It's like Bucky in Winter Soldier.
Even the ultra mind-controlled Bucky has a personality in Winter Soldier and a narrative arc. It's just boggling my mind that anyone cares about the MCU Taskmaster at all, you have no character of her as a child and she has no character as an adult. Does she even speak in the film, I can't honestly remember. She's a blank slate in every way, she's not even a character, she's a consolidated goon. Whether she was Taskmaster or not, she's a complete void of charisma, character, and personality and projecting potential future escapades on her doesn't retroactively make her interesting in Black Widow
I was pleasantly surprised at how much I loved the supporting cast. Yelena will probably end up on the next Avengers team and I'm 100% for it.
Also
MCU Taskmaster is better than the comic version. I hope she comes back in some form.
Yeah, you're going to have to elaborate here. What about her complete lack of character makes her better than the version with character?
A formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom means to her is a far more interesting character than Badass Mercenary Man #83.
The whole point of taskmaster was less that he was a generic goon and more of the guy you call in to act as a drill seargent to train up your army of goons. Further, part of the catch with how his powers work is that it also interferes with his long term memory as I recall and as such the dude struggles to remember things from more then 6 months ago that aren't being kept fresh in his memory
Replacing him with "generic silent antagonist with a tragic background" is not exactly an improvement.
It's a downgrade, but formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom's sub-plot was taken by Yelena. This was Taskmaster's origins, she didn't die they can go anywhere with her now. It's like Bucky in Winter Soldier.
Even the ultra mind-controlled Bucky has a personality in Winter Soldier and a narrative arc. It's just boggling my mind that anyone cares about the MCU Taskmaster at all, you have no character of her as a child and she has no character as an adult. Does she even speak in the film, I can't honestly remember. She's a blank slate in every way, she's not even a character, she's a consolidated goon. Whether she was Taskmaster or not, she's a complete void of charisma, character, and personality and projecting potential future escapades on her doesn't retroactively make her interesting in Black Widow
She has the same arc as Bucky. Mind controlled Bucky has no personality, and doesn't speak - he only does this in the end when his mind control is breaking down on the Helicarrier and he's not making long winded speeches. She speaks words to Natasha after she's not brainwashed, Black Widow is Winter Soldier 2.0, except with lower quality. WS has more charismatic presence, but they're the same character - an expendable weapon whose job is to kill, the parts where Bucky breaks though are very minor.
I was pleasantly surprised at how much I loved the supporting cast. Yelena will probably end up on the next Avengers team and I'm 100% for it.
Also
MCU Taskmaster is better than the comic version. I hope she comes back in some form.
Yeah, you're going to have to elaborate here. What about her complete lack of character makes her better than the version with character?
A formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom means to her is a far more interesting character than Badass Mercenary Man #83.
The whole point of taskmaster was less that he was a generic goon and more of the guy you call in to act as a drill seargent to train up your army of goons. Further, part of the catch with how his powers work is that it also interferes with his long term memory as I recall and as such the dude struggles to remember things from more then 6 months ago that aren't being kept fresh in his memory
Replacing him with "generic silent antagonist with a tragic background" is not exactly an improvement.
It's a downgrade, but formerly mind-controlled child soldier trying to figure out what freedom's sub-plot was taken by Yelena. This was Taskmaster's origins, she didn't die they can go anywhere with her now. It's like Bucky in Winter Soldier.
Even the ultra mind-controlled Bucky has a personality in Winter Soldier and a narrative arc. It's just boggling my mind that anyone cares about the MCU Taskmaster at all, you have no character of her as a child and she has no character as an adult. Does she even speak in the film, I can't honestly remember. She's a blank slate in every way, she's not even a character, she's a consolidated goon. Whether she was Taskmaster or not, she's a complete void of charisma, character, and personality and projecting potential future escapades on her doesn't retroactively make her interesting in Black Widow
She has the same arc as Bucky. Mind controlled Bucky has no personality, and doesn't speak - he only does this in the end when his mind control is breaking down on the Helicarrier and he's not making long winded speeches. She speaks words to Natasha after she's not brainwashed, Black Widow is Winter Soldier 2.0, except with lower quality. WS has more charismatic presence, but they're the same character - an expendable weapon whose job is to kill, the parts where Bucky breaks though are very minor.
No, Bucky also speaks when he talks to Pierce as his conditioning starts to break down before the big climax.
I mean, are there any Named MCU movies where you thought there was a possibility that the lead could actually die?
Are there any named MCU movies where like 60% of the movie is actively setting up someone who can replace the lead in the MCU going forward? This movie was set up to hand the baton off to her sister, and you easily could've sat there watching it saying "wow, they might use this movie to replace Natasha" if you didn't already know how things end.
I dunno about 60%, but IM2 spent an inordinate amount of time setting up Rhodey, for him to... just basically be in the background for some (but not all) of the big avengers group shots. And like, bucky and sam in winter soldier
Bucky has personality just in his physicality. It's character building just having him stood calmly in the road to take out fury and he's unmasked pretty early on and talks then.
You can abstractly say "two mind controlled soldiers are the same" but they're not even remotely close. Bucky is a charismatic and effective villain who goes from ruthless assassin to conflicted and helping cap by the end, breaking through his own heavily controlled mind.
Taskmasters physicality is an amalgam of other people, literally, she's ineffective multiple times, and is only freed from her mind control by a magic gas. We have no sense of who she is before or now or what she went through.
Bucky is leaps and bounds a better and more effective character who has an actual arc that's shown on screen.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
I mean, are there any Named MCU movies where you thought there was a possibility that the lead could actually die?
Are there any named MCU movies where like 60% of the movie is actively setting up someone who can replace the lead in the MCU going forward? This movie was set up to hand the baton off to her sister, and you easily could've sat there watching it saying "wow, they might use this movie to replace Natasha" if you didn't already know how things end.
I dunno about 60%, but IM2 spent an inordinate amount of time setting up Rhodey, for him to... just basically be in the background for some (but not all) of the big avengers group shots. And like, bucky and sam in winter soldier
Rhodey also falls under the same 'fuck Perlmutter' category. Dude wasn't just a sexist, he was also very racist. He actually told a Disney executive no one would notice they replaced Terrance Howard with Don Cheadle because 'all black people look the same'.
It's not a coincidence we got Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Black Widow after Perlmutter was gone.
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Replacing him with "generic silent antagonist with a tragic background" is not exactly an improvement.
I think Captain Marvel is cosmic, Scarlet Witch will be going her own way and Thor is probably cosmic now too.
New Cap/Hawkeye/Black Panther/Widow (Yelena) are a given I think
Bucky, Spider Man - sure.
Also, isn't Ironheart going to be a thing?
I see your point about the cosmic folks.
Ironheart's getting a show but, given her age, I figure she's more likely to show up with the Young Avengers.
The movie doesn't even establish why the fuck she was mind controlled. In her brief appearance as a child she seemed happy to see her father, and then Black Widow blew up the building and horribly maimed her to the point of requiring cybernetic reconstruction.
I'm pretty sure she'd want to kill Natasha without any magic mind control bullshit required!
I don't have a horse in the race but for a guy whose name I knew from social osmosis this was a letdown, I had no fucking clue who Crossbones was until well after he was dead and he had more character.
Also this is a bit silly nitpicky but we don't actually know she was a child soldier, for all we know the events of the movie are her first mission lol :P
Also, is anyone going to pass up enthusiastic Spidey/laconic Yelena interactions?
Still hilarious.
I dunno about 60%, but IM2 spent an inordinate amount of time setting up Rhodey, for him to... just basically be in the background for some (but not all) of the big avengers group shots. And like, bucky and sam in winter soldier
You can abstractly say "two mind controlled soldiers are the same" but they're not even remotely close. Bucky is a charismatic and effective villain who goes from ruthless assassin to conflicted and helping cap by the end, breaking through his own heavily controlled mind.
Taskmasters physicality is an amalgam of other people, literally, she's ineffective multiple times, and is only freed from her mind control by a magic gas. We have no sense of who she is before or now or what she went through.
Bucky is leaps and bounds a better and more effective character who has an actual arc that's shown on screen.
Rhodey also falls under the same 'fuck Perlmutter' category. Dude wasn't just a sexist, he was also very racist. He actually told a Disney executive no one would notice they replaced Terrance Howard with Don Cheadle because 'all black people look the same'.
It's not a coincidence we got Captain Marvel, Black Panther and Black Widow after Perlmutter was gone.
Also, again, fuck Perlmutter.
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