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Black Lives Matter Thread 7

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    "Participated in massacres" huh.

    Right, just as soon as everyone in the army who did that gets strung up too (not to mention the tendency to label any battle they lost a massacre).

    what

    predicating your argument that murdering civilians is not bad because the U.S. also did it is some real fucked up equivocation

    and yes, massacres, unarmed civilians were murdered in their homes (the u.s. did this a whole lot during the Colorado wars)

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    the argument isn't it's not bad because we did it too, it's that we're hypocrites

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    also, you know how folks ask about how it must feel to be related to hitler or pol pot or some other genocider?

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_de_la_Torre_y_D%C3%ADaz_Chac%C3%B3n&prev=search&pto=aue

    inarticulable disgust and guilt is about it

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    the argument isn't it's not bad because we did it too, it's that we're hypocrites

    then it's incredibly bad faith to suggest I'm somehow cool with that

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    edited October 2020
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    I don't view any execution as just, especially one executed by an occupying force, because fucking duh

    but whites were absolutely massacred

    If you'd like, I could get a little more in depth on the various ways in which "massacres by natives" have been inflated, exaggerated, and fabricated. We could also have the conversation about, "What alternative course of action could have been taken to resist a genocidal occupying force that didn't give a fuck about the families they massacred on their mission to steal land?"

    But before going down either of those forks, I would want to know if you're actually interested in the conversation, and I would also wanna know why you're appearing to try and "both sides" the Indian Wars on Indigenous People's Day

    Poorochondriac on
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    the argument isn't it's not bad because we did it too, it's that we're hypocrites

    Basically this. I don't think you can say it was just when it's so obviously hypocritical.

    Steam: Polaritie
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    I don't view any execution as just, especially one executed by an occupying force, because fucking duh

    but whites were absolutely massacred

    If you'd like, I could get a little more in depth on the various ways in which "massacres by natives" have been inflated, exaggerated, and fabricated. We could also have the conversation about, "What alternative course of action could have been taken to resist a genocidal occupying force that didn't give a fuck about the families they massacred on their mission to steal land?"

    But before going down either of those forks, I would want to know if you're actually interested in the conversation, and I would also wanna know why you're appearing to try and "both sides" the Indian Wars on Indigenous People's Day
    If you'd like, I could get a little more in depth on the various ways in which "massacres by natives" have been inflated, exaggerated, and fabricated.
    I know this, which is why any history source with any credibility will give approximate numbers unless solid evidence is presented otherwise

    what is known is that settlements were targeted by a small confederation of dakota bands, civilians were killed, and then the settlements were burned

    also, that this wasn't a monolithic movement and was a group of dakota who were furious over treaties not being honored and being refused supplies
    We could also have the conversation about, "What alternative course of action could have been taken to resist a genocidal occupying force that didn't give a fuck about the families they massacred on their mission to steal land?"
    it was no win scenario and I don't know what I would do, but killing civilians is not something I'm gonna be ok with

    nor am I gonna try and justify manifest destiny cause what the fuck it was blatantly genocidal
    But before going down either of those forks, I would want to know if you're actually interested in the conversation, and I would also wanna know why you're appearing to try and "both sides" the Indian Wars on Indigenous People's Day
    I am an indigenous people, and I very much understand your defensiveness in this but please don't start on bad faith because that's not how I'm approaching this

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    It's not bad faith, I literally don't understand your point or what you're trying to do or why

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular


    oh wow, the Right really is buying into the Space Invaders thing, huh?

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Gundi wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    I have very mixed feelings about Lincoln, but I think there's more negative than positive there if only by a little

    Like him explicitly not being an abolitionist, not thinking black and white people deserved equal rights, and thinking that that after slavery was ended black people should largely leave the country
    To be fair this was actually the predominantly popular opinion among free blacks at the time too. (It lost its popularity around the end of the civil war, as the (ultimately ineffectual) Reconstructionist protective measures for freedmen in the South was seen as sign that it might be possible to nudge American society ever so slightly into a more just model. (Plus, when millions of slaves were actually freed it became very quickly apparent that attempting to resettle all of them, even if they were cooperative, was completely impossible.) It was considered inconceivable to even most radicals that white Americans would ever let Africans Americans be, slavery or not, without having both metaphorical and very literal nooses around their necks.

    The Reconstructionist measures were not ineffectual, they were abandoned.

    Fencingsax on
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular


    oh wow, the Right really is buying into the Space Invaders thing, huh?

    ben garrison will believe anything that is untrue

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    knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    What is the Space Invaders thing?

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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    ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    Well, in Japan when the Space Invaders arcade machine was released it was so popular that it resulted in a coin shortage, and that has some how become warped into a symbol of Antifa's demands for change.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    Well, in Japan when the Space Invaders arcade machine was released it was so popular that it resulted in a coin shortage, and that has some how become warped into a symbol of Antifa's demands for change.

    Chico...

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    What is the Space Invaders thing?

    The pinkerton who shot that fascist had that tatoo on his wrist and its spun off into some conspiracy as proof he was actually antifa

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Suddenly the idea of getting tattoos based on homeworld seems like a bad one

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Starting to feel like getting any fandom or pop-culture related tattoo at all is hazardous

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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited October 2020
    I still feel like my “Fuckin’ Pay Me” tattoo idea will be evergreen for the remainder of my natural life.

    sarukun on
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    BhowBhow Sunny day, sweeping the clouds away. On my way to where the air is sweet.Registered User regular
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    Well, in Japan when the Space Invaders arcade machine was released it was so popular that it resulted in a coin shortage, and that has some how become warped into a symbol of Antifa's demands for change.

    Chico, this is next level, even for you.

    Bravo!

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Starting to feel like getting any fandom or pop-culture related tattoo at all is hazardous

    Panopticon was a really important album to me, OK‽

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    It's not bad faith, I literally don't understand your point or what you're trying to do or why

    It's all objective and intent and motivation for you isn't it

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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Black police officers are disciplined for misconduct 132% more than white police officers.
    "We found a consistent pattern of racial differences in the formal recording of disciplinary actions in three different major metropolitan cities: Chicago, Philadelphia and Los Angeles," wrote a group of six management professors at the Indiana University Kelley School of Business. "Our results showed that Black officers were more likely to have recorded cases of misconduct, despite there being no difference between Black and white officers in the number of allegations made against them.

    Any surprise?

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular


    oh wow, the Right really is buying into the Space Invaders thing, huh?

    To be fair... I would be totally okay with making 80s video game characters far left icons.

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Black police officers are disciplined for misconduct 132% more than white police officers.
    "We found a consistent pattern of racial differences in the formal recording of disciplinary actions in three different major metropolitan cities: Chicago, Philadelphia and Los Angeles," wrote a group of six management professors at the Indiana University Kelley School of Business. "Our results showed that Black officers were more likely to have recorded cases of misconduct, despite there being no difference between Black and white officers in the number of allegations made against them.

    Any surprise?

    Yeah, ACAB, but loyal bastards are groomed.

    I'll help you with that paperwork.
    Your numbers are fine.
    I'll give you some off the books training, make you a good cop.

    Didn't mean for it to sound so creepy. But when you think about it....

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    TefTef Registered User regular
    I gotta get more disciplined about doing my readings, but I’m so tiiiired

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
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    PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    So in doing some research for a rhetorical analysis on The Soul of Man Under Socialism by Oscar Wilde, I learned about the Haymarket Massacre for the first time in my life.

    The police have been doing this for 135 years, have been shown to the public that they do this shit, and people just don't give a fuck. Why?

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    propaganda mostly, excise it from history curriculum, paint the police as valiant heroes in media.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    GoatmonGoatmon Companion of Kess Registered User regular
    edited October 2020


    oh wow, the Right really is buying into the Space Invaders thing, huh?

    It tickles me that right wingers were god damn giddy because they thought they finally had a body they could point to as evidence of antifa killing people.

    But WHOOPS, dude's a fucking Pinkerton. lmao

    Goatmon on
    Switch Friend Code: SW-6680-6709-4204


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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    propaganda mostly, excise it from history curriculum, paint the police as valiant heroes in media.

    It's also why they moved Labor day to some random Monday in September

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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    So in doing some research for a rhetorical analysis on The Soul of Man Under Socialism by Oscar Wilde, I learned about the Haymarket Massacre for the first time in my life.

    The police have been doing this for 135 years, have been shown to the public that they do this shit, and people just don't give a fuck. Why?

    because they're working as intended

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    But yes cops largely exist to keep the working class in line and occasionally murder them

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Goatmon wrote: »


    oh wow, the Right really is buying into the Space Invaders thing, huh?

    It tickles me that right wingers were god damn giddy because they thought they finally had a body they could point to as evidence of antifa killing people.

    But WHOOPS, dude's a fucking Pinkerton. lmao

    Well there was that guy in Portland, they seem to have stopped talking about that one for some reason. Maybe they executed the suspect too quickly?

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    GoatmonGoatmon Companion of Kess Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Goatmon on
    Switch Friend Code: SW-6680-6709-4204


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    ElaroElaro Apologetic Registered User regular
    More like "Dudley Do-Sweet-Fuck-All", am I right?

    Children's rights are human rights.
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    Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    dudley do-right-by-fascists

    Typhoid Manny on
    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
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