America needs surgery and it needs it now. Fuck everything else until that's done.
Usually true, but unlike anecdotal surgery, we have like actual real disease causing real death on a scale not seen since the actual Civil War. Both things are a priority and both must be done. Fortunately the impeachment trial need take all of 5 minutes.
Sarah Jeong (NYT, elsewhere) had a relevant thought about the whole they almost died thing.
honestly there has nothing been more flabbergasting than Democrats having faced down getting blown up / shot / kidnapped and then pretending like they have no power to do anything about it
It turns out it’s not that they didn’t care about their constituents, they’re just abject cowards who can’t even stand up for themselves in an ongoing emergency where the lack of consequences makes a second, third, fourth attack more likely????
...
Silicon Valley companies with soul-crushing moral cowardice built into their DNA have moved faster, *what is wrong with you*
“Ah ha, but let’s not ruin Biden’s first one hundred days”
A mob just tried to kill you??? Like, there’s bombs and stuff and a cop died???? Why the fuck do you think we’re on a normal schedule anymore!!!
This whole "We can't do that" mentality is asinine under the circumstances. YOU CAN DO FUCKING ANYTHING. Jesus, if this doesn't qualify as an emergency, a time to break precedent, a time to get shit done, then when???
The GOP were breaking norms and bucking rules from day one, but the dems are just like "We caaaaaaan't", even when someone almost literally has a gun to their head. What the fuck.
Because impeaching Trump will not get Democrats re-elected. That's what this comes down to imo. The historical lesson here is that voters just don't care enough about all this shit to have it move their votes so the question of what is more important is skewed away from shit like "holding Trump accountable" and towards their legislative agenda.
0
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MeeqeLord of the pants most fancySomeplace amazingRegistered Userregular
I know the bar has been really, really, really low recently, but doing both is well within what I would consider a functional government.
Sarah Jeong (NYT, elsewhere) had a relevant thought about the whole they almost died thing.
honestly there has nothing been more flabbergasting than Democrats having faced down getting blown up / shot / kidnapped and then pretending like they have no power to do anything about it
It turns out it’s not that they didn’t care about their constituents, they’re just abject cowards who can’t even stand up for themselves in an ongoing emergency where the lack of consequences makes a second, third, fourth attack more likely????
...
Silicon Valley companies with soul-crushing moral cowardice built into their DNA have moved faster, *what is wrong with you*
“Ah ha, but let’s not ruin Biden’s first one hundred days”
A mob just tried to kill you??? Like, there’s bombs and stuff and a cop died???? Why the fuck do you think we’re on a normal schedule anymore!!!
This whole "We can't do that" mentality is asinine under the circumstances. YOU CAN DO FUCKING ANYTHING. Jesus, if this doesn't qualify as an emergency, a time to break precedent, a time to get shit done, then when???
The GOP were breaking norms and bucking rules from day one, but the dems are just like "We caaaaaaan't", even when someone almost literally has a gun to their head. What the fuck.
Because impeaching Trump will not get Democrats re-elected. That's what this comes down to imo. The historical lesson here is that voters just don't care enough about all this shit to have it move their votes so the question of what is more important is skewed away from shit like "holding Trump accountable" and towards their legislative agenda.
This sounds like a collective action problem because not impeaching Trump could lead to the end of elections.
rahkeesh2000 on
+10
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
America needs surgery and it needs it now. Fuck everything else until that's done.
Usually true, but unlike anecdotal surgery, we have like actual real disease causing real death on a scale not seen since the actual Civil War. Both things are a priority and both must be done. Fortunately the impeachment trial need take all of 5 minutes.
As horrible as it is, COVID (on its own) is not an immediate threat to democracy. Long term? Absolutely, though with the vaccines out and a commitment to COVID relief I think it's "just" a stressor and not a game-ender now.
Trumpism on the other hand, is, IMO. Sort of the difference between a fire on a ship, and a leak on the same ship. The leak is a problem that needs to get fixed, but that fire might just fuck you up before the leak does if you don't get a handle on it.
At this point I think we've gone beyond the galley fire in this metaphor. It's still containable but it has done a bunch of damage and will do more before it's out. And most importantly, it's not yet under control.
Sarah Jeong (NYT, elsewhere) had a relevant thought about the whole they almost died thing.
honestly there has nothing been more flabbergasting than Democrats having faced down getting blown up / shot / kidnapped and then pretending like they have no power to do anything about it
It turns out it’s not that they didn’t care about their constituents, they’re just abject cowards who can’t even stand up for themselves in an ongoing emergency where the lack of consequences makes a second, third, fourth attack more likely????
...
Silicon Valley companies with soul-crushing moral cowardice built into their DNA have moved faster, *what is wrong with you*
“Ah ha, but let’s not ruin Biden’s first one hundred days”
A mob just tried to kill you??? Like, there’s bombs and stuff and a cop died???? Why the fuck do you think we’re on a normal schedule anymore!!!
This whole "We can't do that" mentality is asinine under the circumstances. YOU CAN DO FUCKING ANYTHING. Jesus, if this doesn't qualify as an emergency, a time to break precedent, a time to get shit done, then when???
The GOP were breaking norms and bucking rules from day one, but the dems are just like "We caaaaaaan't", even when someone almost literally has a gun to their head. What the fuck.
Because impeaching Trump will not get Democrats re-elected. That's what this comes down to imo. The historical lesson here is that voters just don't care enough about all this shit to have it move their votes so the question of what is more important is skewed away from shit like "holding Trump accountable" and towards their legislative agenda.
This sounds like a collective action problem because not impeaching Trump could lead to the end of elections.
It's not a collective action problem, it's a democracy problem. Voters don't pay a lot of attention, don't care about process and don't really care about the big picture. This is, I would bet, what is shaping their behaviour here because Democratic leadership's goal is basically always winning the next election.
The democrats are also seemingly aware of the election issue since the first bill they passed after winning the House was, afaik, a huge pro-democracy one.
+3
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Sarah Jeong (NYT, elsewhere) had a relevant thought about the whole they almost died thing.
honestly there has nothing been more flabbergasting than Democrats having faced down getting blown up / shot / kidnapped and then pretending like they have no power to do anything about it
It turns out it’s not that they didn’t care about their constituents, they’re just abject cowards who can’t even stand up for themselves in an ongoing emergency where the lack of consequences makes a second, third, fourth attack more likely????
...
Silicon Valley companies with soul-crushing moral cowardice built into their DNA have moved faster, *what is wrong with you*
“Ah ha, but let’s not ruin Biden’s first one hundred days”
A mob just tried to kill you??? Like, there’s bombs and stuff and a cop died???? Why the fuck do you think we’re on a normal schedule anymore!!!
This whole "We can't do that" mentality is asinine under the circumstances. YOU CAN DO FUCKING ANYTHING. Jesus, if this doesn't qualify as an emergency, a time to break precedent, a time to get shit done, then when???
The GOP were breaking norms and bucking rules from day one, but the dems are just like "We caaaaaaan't", even when someone almost literally has a gun to their head. What the fuck.
Because impeaching Trump will not get Democrats re-elected. That's what this comes down to imo. The historical lesson here is that voters just don't care enough about all this shit to have it move their votes so the question of what is more important is skewed away from shit like "holding Trump accountable" and towards their legislative agenda.
This sounds like a collective action problem because not impeaching Trump could lead to the end of elections.
It's not a collective action problem, it's a democracy problem. Voters don't pay a lot of attention, don't care about process and don't really care about the big picture. This is, I would bet, what is shaping their behaviour here because Democratic leadership's goal is basically always winning the next election.
The democrats are also seemingly aware of the election issue since the first bill they passed after winning the House was, afaik, a huge pro-democracy one.
57% percent of voters are in favor of removal, for what it's worth
Since I also have my own head up my own ass all of the time, simple googling reveals a pdf the Senate put out just under a year ago about the procedures surrounding the last impeachment trial.
The basic order is they can go about convicting/acquitting Trump and all it takes them to get onto the business of passing COVID relief is banging the gavel, playing musical chairs and banging the gavel again.
RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
Come Overwatch with meeeee
Sarah Jeong (NYT, elsewhere) had a relevant thought about the whole they almost died thing.
honestly there has nothing been more flabbergasting than Democrats having faced down getting blown up / shot / kidnapped and then pretending like they have no power to do anything about it
It turns out it’s not that they didn’t care about their constituents, they’re just abject cowards who can’t even stand up for themselves in an ongoing emergency where the lack of consequences makes a second, third, fourth attack more likely????
...
Silicon Valley companies with soul-crushing moral cowardice built into their DNA have moved faster, *what is wrong with you*
“Ah ha, but let’s not ruin Biden’s first one hundred days”
A mob just tried to kill you??? Like, there’s bombs and stuff and a cop died???? Why the fuck do you think we’re on a normal schedule anymore!!!
This whole "We can't do that" mentality is asinine under the circumstances. YOU CAN DO FUCKING ANYTHING. Jesus, if this doesn't qualify as an emergency, a time to break precedent, a time to get shit done, then when???
The GOP were breaking norms and bucking rules from day one, but the dems are just like "We caaaaaaan't", even when someone almost literally has a gun to their head. What the fuck.
Because impeaching Trump will not get Democrats re-elected. That's what this comes down to imo. The historical lesson here is that voters just don't care enough about all this shit to have it move their votes so the question of what is more important is skewed away from shit like "holding Trump accountable" and towards their legislative agenda.
This sounds like a collective action problem because not impeaching Trump could lead to the end of elections.
It's not a collective action problem, it's a democracy problem. Voters don't pay a lot of attention, don't care about process and don't really care about the big picture. This is, I would bet, what is shaping their behaviour here because Democratic leadership's goal is basically always winning the next election.
The democrats are also seemingly aware of the election issue since the first bill they passed after winning the House was, afaik, a huge pro-democracy one.
57% percent of voters are in favor of removal, for what it's worth
Like, I'm 100% in favour of impeaching his ass and probably as soon as possible. I just think we should also be realistic about what the actual incentives here are.
+1
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Sarah Jeong (NYT, elsewhere) had a relevant thought about the whole they almost died thing.
honestly there has nothing been more flabbergasting than Democrats having faced down getting blown up / shot / kidnapped and then pretending like they have no power to do anything about it
It turns out it’s not that they didn’t care about their constituents, they’re just abject cowards who can’t even stand up for themselves in an ongoing emergency where the lack of consequences makes a second, third, fourth attack more likely????
...
Silicon Valley companies with soul-crushing moral cowardice built into their DNA have moved faster, *what is wrong with you*
“Ah ha, but let’s not ruin Biden’s first one hundred days”
A mob just tried to kill you??? Like, there’s bombs and stuff and a cop died???? Why the fuck do you think we’re on a normal schedule anymore!!!
This whole "We can't do that" mentality is asinine under the circumstances. YOU CAN DO FUCKING ANYTHING. Jesus, if this doesn't qualify as an emergency, a time to break precedent, a time to get shit done, then when???
The GOP were breaking norms and bucking rules from day one, but the dems are just like "We caaaaaaan't", even when someone almost literally has a gun to their head. What the fuck.
Because impeaching Trump will not get Democrats re-elected. That's what this comes down to imo. The historical lesson here is that voters just don't care enough about all this shit to have it move their votes so the question of what is more important is skewed away from shit like "holding Trump accountable" and towards their legislative agenda.
This sounds like a collective action problem because not impeaching Trump could lead to the end of elections.
It's not a collective action problem, it's a democracy problem. Voters don't pay a lot of attention, don't care about process and don't really care about the big picture. This is, I would bet, what is shaping their behaviour here because Democratic leadership's goal is basically always winning the next election.
The democrats are also seemingly aware of the election issue since the first bill they passed after winning the House was, afaik, a huge pro-democracy one.
57% percent of voters are in favor of removal, for what it's worth
Like, I'm 100% in favour of impeaching his ass and probably as soon as possible. I just think we should also be realistic about what the actual incentives here are.
yeah, removal by Congress is entirely impossible
i just don't know if polling is necessarily the issue in this case
I would have thought democratic voters would care somewhat about the attempted coup and not treating the issue with gravity would likely depress voter turnout, because why bother voting for a party that can't even help itself, let alone you.
So would've thought voters do care.
I would have thought democratic voters would care somewhat about the attempted coup and not treating the issue with gravity would likely depress voter turnout, because why bother voting for a party that can't even help itself, let alone you.
So would've thought voters do care.
There is, as far as I'm aware, no evidence of that.
I would have thought democratic voters would care somewhat about the attempted coup and not treating the issue with gravity would likely depress voter turnout, because why bother voting for a party that can't even help itself, let alone you.
So would've thought voters do care.
There is, as far as I'm aware, no evidence of that.
I would have thought democratic voters would care somewhat about the attempted coup and not treating the issue with gravity would likely depress voter turnout, because why bother voting for a party that can't even help itself, let alone you.
So would've thought voters do care.
The question is how much time and capital do you spend on impeachment when you could be getting checks / healthcare / voters rights out there instead.
If impeachment is a non-starter because you will never get 2/3 and will neither help people nor turn out your base in 2022 I can understand focusing on what you can do.
Especially if part of that is confirming an AG that will go after the people who incited the attempted coup and handle things through that avenue.
I do think impeachment is absolutely necessary as is expulsions and prison time, but I can see reasonable arguments why that may not be tenible. And a lot is jockeying and fighting for position the past and next week.
You can still make every Republican vote for fascism and put the scarlet letter on them forever
Make it known to the voters that if they reject Trumpism they can keep voting against Trump next time by voting out X, Y and Z
I guess we’ll see what happens this week, hopefully the Dems don’t do their usual “always let a crisis go to waste”
+9
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I mean technically the democrats gained two seats of government post impeachment.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Sarah Jeong (NYT, elsewhere) had a relevant thought about the whole they almost died thing.
honestly there has nothing been more flabbergasting than Democrats having faced down getting blown up / shot / kidnapped and then pretending like they have no power to do anything about it
It turns out it’s not that they didn’t care about their constituents, they’re just abject cowards who can’t even stand up for themselves in an ongoing emergency where the lack of consequences makes a second, third, fourth attack more likely????
...
Silicon Valley companies with soul-crushing moral cowardice built into their DNA have moved faster, *what is wrong with you*
“Ah ha, but let’s not ruin Biden’s first one hundred days”
A mob just tried to kill you??? Like, there’s bombs and stuff and a cop died???? Why the fuck do you think we’re on a normal schedule anymore!!!
This whole "We can't do that" mentality is asinine under the circumstances. YOU CAN DO FUCKING ANYTHING. Jesus, if this doesn't qualify as an emergency, a time to break precedent, a time to get shit done, then when???
The GOP were breaking norms and bucking rules from day one, but the dems are just like "We caaaaaaan't", even when someone almost literally has a gun to their head. What the fuck.
Because impeaching Trump will not get Democrats re-elected. That's what this comes down to imo. The historical lesson here is that voters just don't care enough about all this shit to have it move their votes so the question of what is more important is skewed away from shit like "holding Trump accountable" and towards their legislative agenda.
This sounds like a collective action problem because not impeaching Trump could lead to the end of elections.
It's not a collective action problem, it's a democracy problem. Voters don't pay a lot of attention, don't care about process and don't really care about the big picture. This is, I would bet, what is shaping their behaviour here because Democratic leadership's goal is basically always winning the next election.
The democrats are also seemingly aware of the election issue since the first bill they passed after winning the House was, afaik, a huge pro-democracy one.
57% percent of voters are in favor of removal, for what it's worth
Like, I'm 100% in favour of impeaching his ass and probably as soon as possible. I just think we should also be realistic about what the actual incentives here are.
yeah, removal by Congress is entirely impossible
i just don't know if polling is necessarily the issue in this case
I think a clear majority of the public wants him removed, but I think the inevitable fact of the Republicans refusing to vote for his removal will likely go down for most folks as "Those Clowns in Congress failed us again!"
We have a bad political system that feeds into people's existing cynicism.
Sarah Jeong (NYT, elsewhere) had a relevant thought about the whole they almost died thing.
honestly there has nothing been more flabbergasting than Democrats having faced down getting blown up / shot / kidnapped and then pretending like they have no power to do anything about it
It turns out it’s not that they didn’t care about their constituents, they’re just abject cowards who can’t even stand up for themselves in an ongoing emergency where the lack of consequences makes a second, third, fourth attack more likely????
...
Silicon Valley companies with soul-crushing moral cowardice built into their DNA have moved faster, *what is wrong with you*
“Ah ha, but let’s not ruin Biden’s first one hundred days”
A mob just tried to kill you??? Like, there’s bombs and stuff and a cop died???? Why the fuck do you think we’re on a normal schedule anymore!!!
This whole "We can't do that" mentality is asinine under the circumstances. YOU CAN DO FUCKING ANYTHING. Jesus, if this doesn't qualify as an emergency, a time to break precedent, a time to get shit done, then when???
The GOP were breaking norms and bucking rules from day one, but the dems are just like "We caaaaaaan't", even when someone almost literally has a gun to their head. What the fuck.
Because impeaching Trump will not get Democrats re-elected. That's what this comes down to imo. The historical lesson here is that voters just don't care enough about all this shit to have it move their votes so the question of what is more important is skewed away from shit like "holding Trump accountable" and towards their legislative agenda.
This sounds like a collective action problem because not impeaching Trump could lead to the end of elections.
It's not a collective action problem, it's a democracy problem. Voters don't pay a lot of attention, don't care about process and don't really care about the big picture. This is, I would bet, what is shaping their behaviour here because Democratic leadership's goal is basically always winning the next election.
The democrats are also seemingly aware of the election issue since the first bill they passed after winning the House was, afaik, a huge pro-democracy one.
57% percent of voters are in favor of removal, for what it's worth
Like, I'm 100% in favour of impeaching his ass and probably as soon as possible. I just think we should also be realistic about what the actual incentives here are.
yeah, removal by Congress is entirely impossible
i just don't know if polling is necessarily the issue in this case
I think a clear majority of the public wants him removed, but I think the inevitable fact of the Republicans refusing to vote for his removal will likely go down for most folks as "Those Clowns in Congress failed us again!"
We have a bad political system that feeds into people's existing cynicism.
i mean this entire thread can be summed up as two camps:
Maybe This Time Is Different and Democrats Won't Do What They Always Do?
This Time Is Different and Democrats Will Do The Same Thing They Always Do!
I would have thought democratic voters would care somewhat about the attempted coup and not treating the issue with gravity would likely depress voter turnout, because why bother voting for a party that can't even help itself, let alone you.
So would've thought voters do care.
The question is how much time and capital do you spend on impeachment when you could be getting checks / healthcare / voters rights out there instead.
Frankly, I think this should've been "Impeachment #27645 - Crimes showing Trump is a clear and present danger to democracy: Who's wasting time now", after impeaching over and over for new and exciting crimes throughout his entire tenure.
So I guess my answer is 'all of it, there is no greater issue'.
When mainstream republicans vote for fascism, it doesn’t stain them, it mainstreams fascism
We watched very different 2020 elections
The one where the fascists got 75 million votes? Seemed pretty mainstream
The one where people were so fed up with fascism they took the House, Senate, and presidency
i think you are conflating losing an election with not being mainstream, and that is not really the case
Allegedly a voice of reason.
+8
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The sixth is being a real come to Jesus moment for a lot of Rs who had dismissed the claims of fascism about their own party
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Bear in mind that with McConnell out of the way, the Senate won't be the only viable source for crafting legislation any more. The Senate can rely on the House to hash things out and then just rubber-stamp what they put out, rather than completely ignoring it and putting out their own version that the House will be forced to accept because they want the country to continue to function.
When mainstream republicans vote for fascism, it doesn’t stain them, it mainstreams fascism
We watched very different 2020 elections
The one where the fascists got 75 million votes? Seemed pretty mainstream
The one where people were so fed up with fascism they took the House, Senate, and presidency
i think you are conflating losing an election with not being mainstream, and that is not really the case
Yeah. Essentially 22.85% of the entire population of the US is at least partially okay with Trump. He's done shit that should disqualify him from holding a job on a school council, much less the Presidency.
So yeah, kind of spooky.
+2
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
If I told my dad in October that he was going to vote for a fascist he would have lambasted me and we’d have had a huge drawn out argument involving yelling
I told my dad after the sixth that he voted for a fascist and he did not argue the point at all and called for Trump, Brooks, and Cruz to all be arrested and removed from power.
So yeah, bit of a zeitgeist shift there.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
When mainstream republicans vote for fascism, it doesn’t stain them, it mainstreams fascism
We watched very different 2020 elections
The one where the fascists got 75 million votes? Seemed pretty mainstream
The one where people were so fed up with fascism they took the House, Senate, and presidency
That’s true. I didn’t say “Democrats can never win against mainstreamed fascists.” They can and did.
It’s just that our country is so committed to both-sidesism that a major party embracing fascism elevates fascism further than it drags down the major party
Posts
Usually true, but unlike anecdotal surgery, we have like actual real disease causing real death on a scale not seen since the actual Civil War. Both things are a priority and both must be done. Fortunately the impeachment trial need take all of 5 minutes.
Because impeaching Trump will not get Democrats re-elected. That's what this comes down to imo. The historical lesson here is that voters just don't care enough about all this shit to have it move their votes so the question of what is more important is skewed away from shit like "holding Trump accountable" and towards their legislative agenda.
Lets hope one is on the way.
This sounds like a collective action problem because not impeaching Trump could lead to the end of elections.
As horrible as it is, COVID (on its own) is not an immediate threat to democracy. Long term? Absolutely, though with the vaccines out and a commitment to COVID relief I think it's "just" a stressor and not a game-ender now.
Trumpism on the other hand, is, IMO. Sort of the difference between a fire on a ship, and a leak on the same ship. The leak is a problem that needs to get fixed, but that fire might just fuck you up before the leak does if you don't get a handle on it.
At this point I think we've gone beyond the galley fire in this metaphor. It's still containable but it has done a bunch of damage and will do more before it's out. And most importantly, it's not yet under control.
It's not a collective action problem, it's a democracy problem. Voters don't pay a lot of attention, don't care about process and don't really care about the big picture. This is, I would bet, what is shaping their behaviour here because Democratic leadership's goal is basically always winning the next election.
The democrats are also seemingly aware of the election issue since the first bill they passed after winning the House was, afaik, a huge pro-democracy one.
57% percent of voters are in favor of removal, for what it's worth
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-poll/majority-of-americans-want-trump-removed-immediately-after-u-s-capitol-violence-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN29D2VG
Since I also have my own head up my own ass all of the time, simple googling reveals a pdf the Senate put out just under a year ago about the procedures surrounding the last impeachment trial.
The basic order is they can go about convicting/acquitting Trump and all it takes them to get onto the business of passing COVID relief is banging the gavel, playing musical chairs and banging the gavel again.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
538 had support for removing Trump from office at ~48% last time around:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/
Like, I'm 100% in favour of impeaching his ass and probably as soon as possible. I just think we should also be realistic about what the actual incentives here are.
yeah, removal by Congress is entirely impossible
i just don't know if polling is necessarily the issue in this case
So would've thought voters do care.
There is, as far as I'm aware, no evidence of that.
Hell, the immediate aftermath of last time was basically no movement in the polls except for an increase in disillusionment with the political process according to 538:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/impeachment-didnt-change-minds-it-eroded-trust/
By election time afaik it wasn't even showing up as a thing people said effected their votes.
this is showing that impeachment shored up Republican support
it did erode Democrat support slightly
The question is how much time and capital do you spend on impeachment when you could be getting checks / healthcare / voters rights out there instead.
If impeachment is a non-starter because you will never get 2/3 and will neither help people nor turn out your base in 2022 I can understand focusing on what you can do.
Especially if part of that is confirming an AG that will go after the people who incited the attempted coup and handle things through that avenue.
I do think impeachment is absolutely necessary as is expulsions and prison time, but I can see reasonable arguments why that may not be tenible. And a lot is jockeying and fighting for position the past and next week.
Make it known to the voters that if they reject Trumpism they can keep voting against Trump next time by voting out X, Y and Z
I guess we’ll see what happens this week, hopefully the Dems don’t do their usual “always let a crisis go to waste”
I think a clear majority of the public wants him removed, but I think the inevitable fact of the Republicans refusing to vote for his removal will likely go down for most folks as "Those Clowns in Congress failed us again!"
We have a bad political system that feeds into people's existing cynicism.
i mean this entire thread can be summed up as two camps:
Maybe This Time Is Different and Democrats Won't Do What They Always Do?
This Time Is Different and Democrats Will Do The Same Thing They Always Do!
Frankly, I think this should've been "Impeachment #27645 - Crimes showing Trump is a clear and present danger to democracy: Who's wasting time now", after impeaching over and over for new and exciting crimes throughout his entire tenure.
So I guess my answer is 'all of it, there is no greater issue'.
We watched very different 2020 elections
The one where the fascists got 75 million votes? Seemed pretty mainstream
The one where people were so fed up with fascism they took the House, Senate, and presidency
The Democrats lost seats in the house.
Literally there are like 80 members of the fucking House who believe in this batshit stuff.
i think you are conflating losing an election with not being mainstream, and that is not really the case
The point I am actually making is that when fascism is visible and obvious, people turn out in droves to oppose it
I’m sorry (not sarcastically!) if that isn’t clear
I hope it's enough of one
Yeah. Essentially 22.85% of the entire population of the US is at least partially okay with Trump. He's done shit that should disqualify him from holding a job on a school council, much less the Presidency.
So yeah, kind of spooky.
I told my dad after the sixth that he voted for a fascist and he did not argue the point at all and called for Trump, Brooks, and Cruz to all be arrested and removed from power.
So yeah, bit of a zeitgeist shift there.
They lost the seats they won because Trump wasn't on the 2018 ballot.
Trump was still good for the Republican ballot compared to their last two standard bearers.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
That’s true. I didn’t say “Democrats can never win against mainstreamed fascists.” They can and did.
It’s just that our country is so committed to both-sidesism that a major party embracing fascism elevates fascism further than it drags down the major party
They also turn out in droves to support it. Trump's number of votes went up between elections.
Absolute panic is definitely not an appropriate place to be right now. But I am not confident of where the future is going to take us either.
If I have one failing it’s that I am unfailingly optimistic, even in the face of real shitfuckery
Better that than my tendency to let my anxiety try to eat it's way through my stomach wall.
Fascism has, unfortunately, always been fairly mainstream in America:
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan
That’s Madison Square Garden chock full of a shitton of Nazis.
Literal “we support Hitler and it is the 1930s” Nazis