Reading up the details, the entire situation is so fucked up:
1. Police claimed they pulled him over because he had no fear license plate. Lawyers say this isn't true. So they had no reason to covering him as soon as they could walk up and see.
2. They claim the lt was trying to evade them by pulling into a well lit gas station, rather than pulling over right away. Black people have every reason to ensure their actions are well lit.
3. Police officer uses the phrase "fixing to ride the lighting", a phrase used to describe the execution of a black man in "The green mile."
4. One officer demands he get out of the car while the other demands he keep his hands up. It's literally impossible to do both.
Even under a charitable reading, where we assume that taking the 1.5 minute drive to a well-lit area to pull over could reasonably read as potential "evasion" and thus the treatment as a felony stop was reasonable from the outset, the real issue is that at no point was de-escalating from that stance ever considered. Those cops were putting that man in cuffs, period, the moment he didn't immediately pull over. No fact set could change that once the decision was made.
A reasonable response would have been to back off the "felony stop" response once you realized that a) you fucked up and the paper tag was displayed in the rear, b) he was just pulling into a lit area for safety, and c) he was obviously rattled and waiting with his hands clearly visible outside the window. At that point you could consider moving from "shouts and guns" to just...talking? Like explain why you pulled him over? Let him explain why he didn't immediately stop? Just calm the fuck down in general? The decision to call this a "felony stop" was a mistake, and admitting that and reverting to a routine stop posture would have been absolutely appropriate. You could even consider apologizing for the misunderstanding.
Whether it was actual policy or just their pride that prevented it, that was the failure here.
How can you possibly manage to both keep your hands up and leave the car? Open the door with your feet?
The closest is placing both hands out of the window and using your left hand to open the door from the outside
But doing anything weird like that is going to look "dangerous" to twitchy cops.
I wonder if brutal cops co-ordinate "impossible requests" so they have an excuse to shoot or beat black people. If I was black I'd have a dashboard cam running all the time.
These officers knew they were being filmed while engaging in this behavior. They didn't cover up or turn off their body cameras. Because they felt nothing they were doing was egregious or would see them facing any sort of repercussions.
It honestly scares me. I can't even comfort myself saying "But I'm a white lady, the cops are always nice to me" because they seem drunk with power and the case of Martin Gugino, the old white man brutalized at a protest in Buffalo, shows us that it won't be long before color does not protect us.
How can you possibly manage to both keep your hands up and leave the car? Open the door with your feet?
The closest is placing both hands out of the window and using your left hand to open the door from the outside
But doing anything weird like that is going to look "dangerous" to twitchy cops.
I wonder if brutal cops co-ordinate "impossible requests" so they have an excuse to shoot or beat black people. If I was black I'd have a dashboard cam running all the time.
These officers knew they were being filmed while engaging in this behavior. They didn't cover up or turn off their body cameras. Because they felt nothing they were doing was egregious or would see them facing any sort of repercussions.
It honestly scares me. I can't even comfort myself saying "But I'm a white lady, the cops are always nice to me" because they seem drunk with power and the case of Martin Gugino, the old white man brutalized at a protest in Buffalo, shows us that it won't be long before color does not protect us.
Pretending this is a strictly racial problem was always a mistake. Color doesn't protect you now, and it never has. Unarmed white individuals are shot by cops all the time. Blacks are just shot at a higher rate.
White skin makes it less likely. It's still disturbingly common.
How can you possibly manage to both keep your hands up and leave the car? Open the door with your feet?
The closest is placing both hands out of the window and using your left hand to open the door from the outside
But doing anything weird like that is going to look "dangerous" to twitchy cops.
I wonder if brutal cops co-ordinate "impossible requests" so they have an excuse to shoot or beat black people. If I was black I'd have a dashboard cam running all the time.
These officers knew they were being filmed while engaging in this behavior. They didn't cover up or turn off their body cameras. Because they felt nothing they were doing was egregious or would see them facing any sort of repercussions.
It honestly scares me. I can't even comfort myself saying "But I'm a white lady, the cops are always nice to me" because they seem drunk with power and the case of Martin Gugino, the old white man brutalized at a protest in Buffalo, shows us that it won't be long before color does not protect us.
Pretending this is a strictly racial problem was always a mistake. Color doesn't protect you now, and it never has. Unarmed white individuals are shot by cops all the time. Blacks are just shot at a higher rate.
White skin makes it less likely. It's still disturbingly common.
Part of that is because white people don't feel as threatened initially (ie, a white driver might have felt comfortable pulling over immediately, rather than going to a well lit area), and so are less likely to have footage shot. Nowadays, if I was in the US (fucking Covid), if I saw a black or brown person being pulled over, I'd be more likely to film the interaction than if it was a white person, just because of that increased rate.
Though I do wonder, if someone has considered doing PSA reenactments of these things, using affluent-looking white people as the victims, acting in exactly the same manner, followed by the real incident, and asking something like "Did you think the first clip was unacceptable?". Point out the clearly different initial reactions of systemic racism, are part of the problem.
When I get pulled over by police my brain makes me act stupid as a defense mechanism
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
When I get pulled over by police my brain makes me act stupid as a defense mechanism
I learned to be super cautious- turn on your dome light and roll windows down, turn the car off and tell the cop everything you are going to do in detail (I am going to get my wallet from my left back pants pocket with my left hand) and get their approval / confirmation before doing it.
I had one cop one time (that I knew from working midnight's at a gas station) almost laugh and ask if I thought he was going to shoot me. I actually told him I just want to make sure that doesn't happen.
Last time I got pulled over as a 36 year old white guy in a Land Rover with wife and kid in the car on a beautiful Saturday afternoon (fake shakedown speed trap) the cop still came to my window hand on gun ready to draw down. They will shoot and kill anyone they interact with, because it is literally us and them. Race does matter but nobody is safe around cops.
Reading up the details, the entire situation is so fucked up:
1. Police claimed they pulled him over because he had no fear license plate. Lawyers say this isn't true. So they had no reason to covering him as soon as they could walk up and see.
2. They claim the lt was trying to evade them by pulling into a well lit gas station, rather than pulling over right away. Black people have every reason to ensure their actions are well lit.
3. Police officer uses the phrase "fixing to ride the lighting", a phrase used to describe the execution of a black man in "The green mile."
4. One officer demands he get out of the car while the other demands he keep his hands up. It's literally impossible to do both.
I believe at one point the soldier says something like “I’m trying to do what you’re telling me, but I’m scared”
If anybody wants to be angry today, somebody elsewhere just pointed out that the career damage to an Army Lieutenant who makes the news during a traffic stop is likely to be miles worse than to the police involved here.
In other words, a couple cops in a (very) small town department may well get away with no effective punishment at all, and the LT we see in that video may well wind up officially reprimanded and see his career prematurely ended.
Pretty much the only thing white does for anyone in regards to the cops is reduce the likelihood that one has to interact with fuckers. After that, as mentioned already, you really don't want to interact with them ever because cop culture is so fucking toxic. If they think you so much as look at them funny, they'll shoot you dead because most of the pigs no longer think of the individuals they police as individuals deserving dignity.
That said, the only time something is far more likely to result in the cops killing someone after we hit the interaction stage, is having some sort of disability that either impairs you ability to respond quickly because they fuckers need you to follow directions at the drop of the hat or they will deem you a mortal danger to their pathetic lives. The other avenue is something that just straight up fucks with communication period and take you pick, there are a ton of individuals with autism that get killed or maimed by the cops that posed no danger to those around them, but fucking cops have to escalate when there is no need. Of course, there are more black individuals with disabilities that end up getting killed or maimed by the cops than other groups, but I want to say the number isn't as stark because asshole bigots are less shy about calling the police on individuals with disabilities that they feel are getting out of line.
Though if you have any questions of where GOP loyalty lies, take a look at Kentucky. Their shit senate passed a bill criminalizing insulting police officers and having a sentence that goes up to three months in prison for hurting some pigs feel feels. Also worth noting a former pig got into politics, introduced the bill and championed it. So even if a few republicans voted against the bill, you can see the party of ratfuckers is already mostly in league with the badges pigs.
Also, got to say, 10 years ago. I never thought I'd ever feel so much hostility towards the police, but here we are and it's entirely the fault of the police because so many of them keep being such fucking pigs about everything. Also doubt they are winning many hearts and minds anywhere. The thing in Maryland and the resent spat of laws reigning some of their shit in are just the opening salvo. I suspect, before the end of the decade, we're going to see a number of things that allows cops to be fucking garbage dismantled and burned to the ground. Outside the GOP, the party of fascists, rapists, racists and traitors, there are tons of other people that want to get into elected office or influence that have little to no love for the police.
I learned pretty early about the police being horrible. My family has a lot of stories about them looking for excuses to ruin someone's life. Call in a break in? You'd better not let them know who you are or where you are or they may just charge YOU because you're within reach. And that's just the stuff the white people in my family have dealt with.
If anybody wants to be angry today, somebody elsewhere just pointed out that the career damage to an Army Lieutenant who makes the news during a traffic stop is likely to be miles worse than to the police involved here.
In other words, a couple cops in a (very) small town department may well get away with no effective punishment at all, and the LT we see in that video may well wind up officially reprimanded and see his career prematurely ended.
Because the Army sucks, almost as much as police.
The interaction would have to be reported, yes. Though that alone likely wouldn't cause a loss of clearance or anything.
But as stupid as it might sound, in many chains of command simply "making the news" (figuratively and literally) is going to sour your chain on you, assuming they don't outright write it up as a formal letter of reprimand. And young LTs are a dime a dozen. It's not like he'd get kicked out of the Army or anything for this, it just might impact his reviews and record such that he has issues promoting down the line, and winds up getting pushed out down the line because of it.
Disclaimer: I was only enlisted, so I'm speaking second- and third-hand about the officer culture and experience. There is also the very real chance that his chain supports him and this has no impact at all. I do seem to recall that he kept his bearing for the most part...he didn't swear out the cops or anything, didn't do much that could specifically reflect badly on the military...so hopefully he's fine.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
If anybody wants to be angry today, somebody elsewhere just pointed out that the career damage to an Army Lieutenant who makes the news during a traffic stop is likely to be miles worse than to the police involved here.
In other words, a couple cops in a (very) small town department may well get away with no effective punishment at all, and the LT we see in that video may well wind up officially reprimanded and see his career prematurely ended.
Because the Army sucks, almost as much as police.
The interaction would have to be reported, yes. Though that alone likely wouldn't cause a loss of clearance or anything.
But as stupid as it might sound, in many chains of command simply "making the news" (figuratively and literally) is going to sour your chain on you, assuming they don't outright write it up as a formal letter of reprimand. And young LTs are a dime a dozen. It's not like he'd get kicked out of the Army or anything for this, it just might impact his reviews and record such that he has issues promoting down the line, and winds up getting pushed out down the line because of it.
Disclaimer: I was only enlisted, so I'm speaking second- and third-hand about the officer culture and experience. There is also the very real chance that his chain supports him and this has no impact at all. I do seem to recall that he kept his bearing for the most part...he didn't swear out the cops or anything, didn't do much that could specifically reflect badly on the military...so hopefully he's fine.
There's also the fact that he's in the medical service, so his superiors are more there as doctors and nurses rather than specifically military.
I have to wonder about the psychological processes behind cops deciding to murder people. Are there cases where victims were doomed the moment the police decided to approach them, with them having absolutely nothing they could have done to change the outcome? Not that it's the victim's responsibility to prevent themselves from being murdered, of course, I'm just curious about the process.
I have to wonder about the psychological processes behind cops deciding to murder people. Are there cases where victims were doomed the moment the police decided to approach them, with them having absolutely nothing they could have done to change the outcome? Not that it's the victim's responsibility to prevent themselves from being murdered, of course, I'm just curious about the process.
In this particular case with the LT I'm not 100% convinced this wasn't essentially a plan to go and murder someone by the police, which was narrowly evaded by making sure he stopped in a well-lit, surveilled area.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Cops walk into any situation with the "fuck around and find out attitude" which is shitty itself but made depraved because the "find out" is almost always gunfire
So yes, if you are an American cop you have absolutely been trained to approach every situation with murder in your heart. Perhaps not all cops willingly seek out to instigate a situation that ends in murder, but they all have the same response.
It's why that Army Vet in West Virginia was fired from his police department for talking down a guy instead of shooting him - he didn't draw his gun on the guy during a wellness check therefore he cannot be trusted by the rest of the police force
I have to wonder about the psychological processes behind cops deciding to murder people. Are there cases where victims were doomed the moment the police decided to approach them, with them having absolutely nothing they could have done to change the outcome? Not that it's the victim's responsibility to prevent themselves from being murdered, of course, I'm just curious about the process.
In this particular case with the LT I'm not 100% convinced this wasn't essentially a plan to go and murder someone by the police, which was narrowly evaded by making sure he stopped in a well-lit, surveilled area.
I think this is a little absurd. Yes, there have been serial rapists and murderers in police departments before, it’s a thing that happens. But nothing here suggests that these cops (plural) were *premeditating* a murder on some random motorist and upset that their plan got foiled. That’s tinfoil hat shit.
That said, I think these cops (like most) are more than comfortable with a little second degree murder or manslaughter, and continuing to that well lit gas station may have saved his life.
They probably weren't premeditating a murder, but they might have been drumming up an excuse to beat him up a bit for defying them. Which they did do.
I think it’s a toss-up whether he’d have been roughed up had he pulled over immediately. Which, because I think I need to be excruciatingly clear anytime I take any remotely contrary point here, is not an exoneration...quite the opposite. Saying “I think it’s 50/50 that these cops would have roughed up a random motorist at a routine traffic stop” is horrifying, and I will take a moment and pause for effect on that fact.
...
But I still believe there was a substantial chance the situation ends without any violence had he pulled over immediately. I also think the odds of him being shot actually go *up* too, so it’s not all puppies and kittens. It’s just a different risk curve, where he’s probably less likely to be beaten but more like I to be killed. Good stuff, right?
Once he decided to continue for all of 90 seconds to a well lit area, they decided to escalate to a felony stop and that *guaranteed* he would be roughed up. Guaranteed. But that is likely a decision that happened when he continued driving, not something that was “drummed up” when the lights first went on. This had the potential from the start to be a routine stop.
But the second it escalated, they were never de-escalating. Once at the gas station, he was going to be beaten, because they’d already decided he was going to be cuffed. And cops like this don’t know how to put the cuffs on gently. Because they don’t want to. And all his “noncompliance” with their contradictory commands just increased the amount of violence he was going to experience. But that’s on them, again, because their lack of clarity and professionalism ensured he couldn’t comply.
On a side note, I wonder if the officer that pepper sprayed him was upset that he didn’t immediately melt like most people presumably do. Any soldier has done the gas chamber (I remember having to recite my SSN while my entire face was burning), and while that’s less intense than a shot of pepper spray to the face, it probably prepares you a little bit for it...just the general feeling, being able to stay calm, and confidence that you’ll be fine.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
They probably weren't premeditating a murder, but they might have been drumming up an excuse to beat him up a bit for defying them. Which they did do.
I think it’s a toss-up whether he’d have been roughed up had he pulled over immediately. Which, because I think I need to be excruciatingly clear anytime I take any remotely contrary point here, is not an exoneration...quite the opposite. Saying “I think it’s 50/50 that these cops would have roughed up a random motorist at a routine traffic stop” is horrifying, and I will take a moment and pause for effect on that fact.
...
But I still believe there was a substantial chance the situation ends without any violence had he pulled over immediately. I also think the odds of him being shot actually go *up* too, so it’s not all puppies and kittens. It’s just a different risk curve, where he’s probably less likely to be beaten but more like I to be killed. Good stuff, right?
Once he decided to continue for all of 90 seconds to a well lit area, they decided to escalate to a felony stop and that *guaranteed* he would be roughed up. Guaranteed. But that is likely a decision that happened when he continued driving, not something that was “drummed up” when the lights first went on. This had the potential from the start to be a routine stop.
But the second it escalated, they were never de-escalating. Once at the gas station, he was going to be beaten, because they’d already decided he was going to be cuffed. And cops like this don’t know how to put the cuffs on gently. Because they don’t want to. And all his “noncompliance” with their contradictory commands just increased the amount of violence he was going to experience. But that’s on them, again, because their lack of clarity and professionalism ensured he couldn’t comply.
On a side note, I wonder if the officer that pepper sprayed him was upset that he didn’t immediately melt like most people presumably do. Any soldier has done the gas chamber (I remember having to recite my SSN while my entire face was burning), and while that’s less intense than a shot of pepper spray to the face, it probably prepares you a little bit for it...just the general feeling, being able to stay calm, and confidence that you’ll be fine.
He may have been pepper sprayed in the military. I know they pepper spray MPs. I don’t know about medics, but it wouldn’t be unlike the military to pair off have one person spray the other and then treat them, and then switch. I also don’t know about officers.
Pretty sure each force has their people go through a few drills where their people are exposed to less than lethal shit like tear gas to condition them to do basic things to minimize their chances of eating an actual chemical attack and just straight panicking.
Got to wonder if the current spat of shit is going to lead to a ton of setups where you see people with vehicles that have cameras with lights setup on their vehicles so that the pigs have no way of obstructing the view without raising serious red flags. AKA if they are obstructing and told they are obstructing, it should be concluded the officer was acting in bad faith and intended to do harm, so that any charges are thrown out and officer involved is severely punished. Pretty much the situation in Russia with dash cams, only instead of being targeted against insurance fraud it's targeted against shitty cops. Probably also comes with stuff to force google to be less shit with their automation moderating shit on copyright stuff, given the pigs have been exploiting that garbage setup to get videos of their abuses copyright striked and taken down before their pig asses manage to land into a huge backlash.
So remember that time a BLM protester shot a proud boy in self-defense, and then the US Marshals swiftly tracked him down and executed him with no body cams?
Well, they recently declared it was likely that the protester shot first.
Despite the fact that his gun was still in his pocket with a full clip inside.
Pretty sure each force has their people go through a few drills where their people are exposed to less than lethal shit like tear gas to condition them to do basic things to minimize their chances of eating an actual chemical attack and just straight panicking.
Got to wonder if the current spat of shit is going to lead to a ton of setups where you see people with vehicles that have cameras with lights setup on their vehicles so that the pigs have no way of obstructing the view without raising serious red flags. AKA if they are obstructing and told they are obstructing, it should be concluded the officer was acting in bad faith and intended to do harm, so that any charges are thrown out and officer involved is severely punished. Pretty much the situation in Russia with dash cams, only instead of being targeted against insurance fraud it's targeted against shitty cops. Probably also comes with stuff to force google to be less shit with their automation moderating shit on copyright stuff, given the pigs have been exploiting that garbage setup to get videos of their abuses copyright striked and taken down before their pig asses manage to land into a huge backlash.
I don't think so because there are already cameras everywhere and even being worn by the cops yet it doesn't seem to make them hesitate.
More likely a camera like that will be treated like filming with your cell phone - an instant provocation and escalation making it more likely your murder or assault is captured on film.
So remember that time a BLM protester shot a proud boy in self-defense, and then the US Marshals swiftly tracked him down and executed him with no body cams?
Well, they recently declared it was likely that the protester shot first.
Despite the fact that his gun was still in his pocket with a full clip inside.
Apparently the evidence that he fired was a spent shell casing inside the vehicle.
But, like, for anybody who goes shooting it's not at all uncommon to have a couple of those rattling around the floorboards.
Yes the polices theory is that he fired one round, ejected his magazine, reloaded the magazine, then put the magazine back in the gun and into his pocket and then was killed.
Yes the polices theory is that he fired one round, ejected his magazine, reloaded the magazine, then put the magazine back in the gun and into his pocket and then was killed.
Well it's that it was chambered in addition to the full magazine, but somehow they have been unable to locate the bullet that was supposedly fired or figured out why he would have holstered it after firing the single round and then filled both of his hands with other objects.
Yes the polices theory is that he fired one round, ejected his magazine, reloaded the magazine, then put the magazine back in the gun and into his pocket and then was killed.
Well it's that it was chambered in addition to the full magazine, but somehow they have been unable to locate the bullet that was supposedly fired or figured out why he would have holstered it after firing the single round and then filled both of his hands with other objects.
Look, the important thing is that law enforcement is excluded from having to explain such petty things because they survived the engagement and are law enforcement and therefore fuck you and fuck evidence. If the deceased wants to clear their name, they just need to come in and clarify the situation with photographic, video, and chemical evidence of what they were doing at the time of their murde-oops, I mean death.
Your chances of being shot during an interaction with the police are basically the same regardless of your skin color.
But the odds of being in an interaction with the police in the first place are substantially higher based on your skin color, because systemic racism.
My mom pointed out the other day that I still had a 2019 sticker on my car, I totally didn't even know
I've been driving since jan 1 2020 with expired plates and not been pulled over
I used to live in a poor, mostly black, neighborhood and I got pulled over at least monthly at night for reasons like "insurance checks" and then let go after being yelled at for (whatever cop could come up with). Weird how that works
Yes the polices theory is that he fired one round, ejected his magazine, reloaded the magazine, then put the magazine back in the gun and into his pocket and then was killed.
So remember that time a BLM protester shot a proud boy in self-defense, and then the US Marshals swiftly tracked him down and executed him with no body cams?
Well, they recently declared it was likely that the protester shot first.
Despite the fact that his gun was still in his pocket with a full clip inside.
Yes the polices theory is that he fired one round, ejected his magazine, reloaded the magazine, then put the magazine back in the gun and into his pocket and then was killed.
Switching out Occam's Razor for Occam's Five-Axis CNC Mill right here...
Your chances of being shot during an interaction with the police are basically the same regardless of your skin color.
But the odds of being in an interaction with the police in the first place are substantially higher based on your skin color, because systemic racism.
My mom pointed out the other day that I still had a 2019 sticker on my car, I totally didn't even know
I've been driving since jan 1 2020 with expired plates and not been pulled over
I used to live in a poor, mostly black, neighborhood and I got pulled over at least monthly at night for reasons like "insurance checks" and then let go after being yelled at for (whatever cop could come up with). Weird how that works
Just driving with a black dog will get you pulled over more
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Even under a charitable reading, where we assume that taking the 1.5 minute drive to a well-lit area to pull over could reasonably read as potential "evasion" and thus the treatment as a felony stop was reasonable from the outset, the real issue is that at no point was de-escalating from that stance ever considered. Those cops were putting that man in cuffs, period, the moment he didn't immediately pull over. No fact set could change that once the decision was made.
A reasonable response would have been to back off the "felony stop" response once you realized that a) you fucked up and the paper tag was displayed in the rear, b) he was just pulling into a lit area for safety, and c) he was obviously rattled and waiting with his hands clearly visible outside the window. At that point you could consider moving from "shouts and guns" to just...talking? Like explain why you pulled him over? Let him explain why he didn't immediately stop? Just calm the fuck down in general? The decision to call this a "felony stop" was a mistake, and admitting that and reverting to a routine stop posture would have been absolutely appropriate. You could even consider apologizing for the misunderstanding.
Whether it was actual policy or just their pride that prevented it, that was the failure here.
And this is why people hate cops.
It honestly scares me. I can't even comfort myself saying "But I'm a white lady, the cops are always nice to me" because they seem drunk with power and the case of Martin Gugino, the old white man brutalized at a protest in Buffalo, shows us that it won't be long before color does not protect us.
Pretending this is a strictly racial problem was always a mistake. Color doesn't protect you now, and it never has. Unarmed white individuals are shot by cops all the time. Blacks are just shot at a higher rate.
White skin makes it less likely. It's still disturbingly common.
But the odds of being in an interaction with the police in the first place are substantially higher based on your skin color, because systemic racism.
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Part of that is because white people don't feel as threatened initially (ie, a white driver might have felt comfortable pulling over immediately, rather than going to a well lit area), and so are less likely to have footage shot. Nowadays, if I was in the US (fucking Covid), if I saw a black or brown person being pulled over, I'd be more likely to film the interaction than if it was a white person, just because of that increased rate.
Though I do wonder, if someone has considered doing PSA reenactments of these things, using affluent-looking white people as the victims, acting in exactly the same manner, followed by the real incident, and asking something like "Did you think the first clip was unacceptable?". Point out the clearly different initial reactions of systemic racism, are part of the problem.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I learned to be super cautious- turn on your dome light and roll windows down, turn the car off and tell the cop everything you are going to do in detail (I am going to get my wallet from my left back pants pocket with my left hand) and get their approval / confirmation before doing it.
I had one cop one time (that I knew from working midnight's at a gas station) almost laugh and ask if I thought he was going to shoot me. I actually told him I just want to make sure that doesn't happen.
Last time I got pulled over as a 36 year old white guy in a Land Rover with wife and kid in the car on a beautiful Saturday afternoon (fake shakedown speed trap) the cop still came to my window hand on gun ready to draw down. They will shoot and kill anyone they interact with, because it is literally us and them. Race does matter but nobody is safe around cops.
I believe at one point the soldier says something like “I’m trying to do what you’re telling me, but I’m scared”
And the officer responds “you should be”
You can't, but that's intentional. The idea is to preemptively have justification for whatever the officers feel like doing.
In other words, a couple cops in a (very) small town department may well get away with no effective punishment at all, and the LT we see in that video may well wind up officially reprimanded and see his career prematurely ended.
Because the Army sucks, almost as much as police.
That said, the only time something is far more likely to result in the cops killing someone after we hit the interaction stage, is having some sort of disability that either impairs you ability to respond quickly because they fuckers need you to follow directions at the drop of the hat or they will deem you a mortal danger to their pathetic lives. The other avenue is something that just straight up fucks with communication period and take you pick, there are a ton of individuals with autism that get killed or maimed by the cops that posed no danger to those around them, but fucking cops have to escalate when there is no need. Of course, there are more black individuals with disabilities that end up getting killed or maimed by the cops than other groups, but I want to say the number isn't as stark because asshole bigots are less shy about calling the police on individuals with disabilities that they feel are getting out of line.
Though if you have any questions of where GOP loyalty lies, take a look at Kentucky. Their shit senate passed a bill criminalizing insulting police officers and having a sentence that goes up to three months in prison for hurting some pigs feel feels. Also worth noting a former pig got into politics, introduced the bill and championed it. So even if a few republicans voted against the bill, you can see the party of ratfuckers is already mostly in league with the badges pigs.
Also, got to say, 10 years ago. I never thought I'd ever feel so much hostility towards the police, but here we are and it's entirely the fault of the police because so many of them keep being such fucking pigs about everything. Also doubt they are winning many hearts and minds anywhere. The thing in Maryland and the resent spat of laws reigning some of their shit in are just the opening salvo. I suspect, before the end of the decade, we're going to see a number of things that allows cops to be fucking garbage dismantled and burned to the ground. Outside the GOP, the party of fascists, rapists, racists and traitors, there are tons of other people that want to get into elected office or influence that have little to no love for the police.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
The interaction would have to be reported, yes. Though that alone likely wouldn't cause a loss of clearance or anything.
But as stupid as it might sound, in many chains of command simply "making the news" (figuratively and literally) is going to sour your chain on you, assuming they don't outright write it up as a formal letter of reprimand. And young LTs are a dime a dozen. It's not like he'd get kicked out of the Army or anything for this, it just might impact his reviews and record such that he has issues promoting down the line, and winds up getting pushed out down the line because of it.
Disclaimer: I was only enlisted, so I'm speaking second- and third-hand about the officer culture and experience. There is also the very real chance that his chain supports him and this has no impact at all. I do seem to recall that he kept his bearing for the most part...he didn't swear out the cops or anything, didn't do much that could specifically reflect badly on the military...so hopefully he's fine.
So he just became a “troublemaker.”
They will likely promote him to O-2 And then told he didn’t make O-3 and will be terminated under the up or out policy.
There's also the fact that he's in the medical service, so his superiors are more there as doctors and nurses rather than specifically military.
In this particular case with the LT I'm not 100% convinced this wasn't essentially a plan to go and murder someone by the police, which was narrowly evaded by making sure he stopped in a well-lit, surveilled area.
So yes, if you are an American cop you have absolutely been trained to approach every situation with murder in your heart. Perhaps not all cops willingly seek out to instigate a situation that ends in murder, but they all have the same response.
It's why that Army Vet in West Virginia was fired from his police department for talking down a guy instead of shooting him - he didn't draw his gun on the guy during a wellness check therefore he cannot be trusted by the rest of the police force
Mark Herring is the Attorney General of Virginia.
The author is a major Boston newspaper.
To be clear, they’d do it to a white soldier too. Or basically anybody.
I think this is a little absurd. Yes, there have been serial rapists and murderers in police departments before, it’s a thing that happens. But nothing here suggests that these cops (plural) were *premeditating* a murder on some random motorist and upset that their plan got foiled. That’s tinfoil hat shit.
That said, I think these cops (like most) are more than comfortable with a little second degree murder or manslaughter, and continuing to that well lit gas station may have saved his life.
I think it’s a toss-up whether he’d have been roughed up had he pulled over immediately. Which, because I think I need to be excruciatingly clear anytime I take any remotely contrary point here, is not an exoneration...quite the opposite. Saying “I think it’s 50/50 that these cops would have roughed up a random motorist at a routine traffic stop” is horrifying, and I will take a moment and pause for effect on that fact.
...
But I still believe there was a substantial chance the situation ends without any violence had he pulled over immediately. I also think the odds of him being shot actually go *up* too, so it’s not all puppies and kittens. It’s just a different risk curve, where he’s probably less likely to be beaten but more like I to be killed. Good stuff, right?
Once he decided to continue for all of 90 seconds to a well lit area, they decided to escalate to a felony stop and that *guaranteed* he would be roughed up. Guaranteed. But that is likely a decision that happened when he continued driving, not something that was “drummed up” when the lights first went on. This had the potential from the start to be a routine stop.
But the second it escalated, they were never de-escalating. Once at the gas station, he was going to be beaten, because they’d already decided he was going to be cuffed. And cops like this don’t know how to put the cuffs on gently. Because they don’t want to. And all his “noncompliance” with their contradictory commands just increased the amount of violence he was going to experience. But that’s on them, again, because their lack of clarity and professionalism ensured he couldn’t comply.
On a side note, I wonder if the officer that pepper sprayed him was upset that he didn’t immediately melt like most people presumably do. Any soldier has done the gas chamber (I remember having to recite my SSN while my entire face was burning), and while that’s less intense than a shot of pepper spray to the face, it probably prepares you a little bit for it...just the general feeling, being able to stay calm, and confidence that you’ll be fine.
Got to wonder if the current spat of shit is going to lead to a ton of setups where you see people with vehicles that have cameras with lights setup on their vehicles so that the pigs have no way of obstructing the view without raising serious red flags. AKA if they are obstructing and told they are obstructing, it should be concluded the officer was acting in bad faith and intended to do harm, so that any charges are thrown out and officer involved is severely punished. Pretty much the situation in Russia with dash cams, only instead of being targeted against insurance fraud it's targeted against shitty cops. Probably also comes with stuff to force google to be less shit with their automation moderating shit on copyright stuff, given the pigs have been exploiting that garbage setup to get videos of their abuses copyright striked and taken down before their pig asses manage to land into a huge backlash.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
So they already knew he wasn't trying to evade them and was looking for a safe spot to pull over.
So remember that time a BLM protester shot a proud boy in self-defense, and then the US Marshals swiftly tracked him down and executed him with no body cams?
Well, they recently declared it was likely that the protester shot first.
Despite the fact that his gun was still in his pocket with a full clip inside.
I don't think so because there are already cameras everywhere and even being worn by the cops yet it doesn't seem to make them hesitate.
More likely a camera like that will be treated like filming with your cell phone - an instant provocation and escalation making it more likely your murder or assault is captured on film.
Apparently the evidence that he fired was a spent shell casing inside the vehicle.
But, like, for anybody who goes shooting it's not at all uncommon to have a couple of those rattling around the floorboards.
Well it's that it was chambered in addition to the full magazine, but somehow they have been unable to locate the bullet that was supposedly fired or figured out why he would have holstered it after firing the single round and then filled both of his hands with other objects.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Look, the important thing is that law enforcement is excluded from having to explain such petty things because they survived the engagement and are law enforcement and therefore fuck you and fuck evidence. If the deceased wants to clear their name, they just need to come in and clarify the situation with photographic, video, and chemical evidence of what they were doing at the time of their murde-oops, I mean death.
My mom pointed out the other day that I still had a 2019 sticker on my car, I totally didn't even know
I've been driving since jan 1 2020 with expired plates and not been pulled over
I used to live in a poor, mostly black, neighborhood and I got pulled over at least monthly at night for reasons like "insurance checks" and then let go after being yelled at for (whatever cop could come up with). Weird how that works
A man that crazy sounds dangerous!
That’s almost Russian in its audacity.
Switching out Occam's Razor for Occam's Five-Axis CNC Mill right here...
Just driving with a black dog will get you pulled over more
https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/25493/driving_while_with_a_black_dog_metro_detroiter_describes_strange_police_stops