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[Legends of Runeterra] Definitely not Neeko! Nope!

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    4 mana 7/7, now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time

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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    there's that 7/7 crocodile for 4 mana, you just have to sacrifice 2 minions to summon it. which do be honest doesn't sound like much of an issue with how many things summon extra minions these days.

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    4/7/7 is a reference to a heavily memed Hearthstone card from 2016.

    pspaFvP.png

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    2016 was so dominate for Shaman that people still have shellshock from it. As I recall, after the 2016 power cards rotated, Shaman hardly found itself anywhere near the top of the meta again. A few occasionally good decks, but nothing tier 1 in power.

    Meanwhile, Warlock is almost always pushing tier 1. Who'd have thought "Draw a card" as a hero power would be so good? :)

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    This actually does make me wonder how they'll adapt the UI as they add more keywords. Zoe and Viktor can already get up some keyword stacking shenanigans that make keyword icons break out of the card box.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Omg I kinda miss those days. Big Boi Warlock, Egg Hunter, Rush Warrior.


    I don't miss every match taking 30 minutes because everyone was playing heavy control.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    New champ reveal today, unless they choose another fate again. :biggrin:

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    I'm not that impressed with Zilean himself, but Soothsayer and Chronoshift both look like great champion protection.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Yilias wrote: »
    I'm not that impressed with Zilean himself, but Soothsayer and Chronoshift both look like great champion protection.

    Fiora friendship with shen ended, zilians friends are new friends.

    Edit: also since zil and co are shurima, maybe I can retool my fiora/shyv deck to work again.

    Enigmedic on
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    With these reveals, I'm even more confused as to why the cards showed yesterday focus so much on speeding up countdowns on landmarks. There has to be some unrevealed big timer landmarks, because the Sun Disk isn't enough to warrant those other cards.

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    The JudgeThe Judge The Terwilliger CurvesRegistered User regular
    My brain is such that every time I see a Time Bomb played, this is absolutely going to kick in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWtZ1TqMq4g

    Last pint: Turmoil CDA / Barley Brown's - Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Vault day woo!

    obecy1uqkejy.jpg

    13+2 this week, guess I'm slacking.

    But the good news is I got that dragon deck crafted now and already took it for a couple spins.

    Haven't really used Asol yet! I can't help but feel like he's a 10 mana do nothing and the meta seems to be full of Thresh and Kindred and insta-kill garbage.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    8y9ioihd72w61.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9da363083fea753fa8a052c2d092321f70c9a0da

    Season icons are up. Gold looking tight with that actual Sun Disk look and Masters continuing to look like something from My Little Pony.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Vault day woo!

    obecy1uqkejy.jpg

    13+2 this week, guess I'm slacking.

    But the good news is I got that dragon deck crafted now and already took it for a couple spins.

    Haven't really used Asol yet! I can't help but feel like he's a 10 mana do nothing and the meta seems to be full of Thresh and Kindred and insta-kill garbage.

    Asol ends games really quick once he's down. If you're playing targon you just gotta keep some hushes lying around for nasus/atrocity. If you silence before it levels he's a 2/2 that you just block. After you'll need 2 spells but that atrocity will still only be 2 damage. Also look for openings to drop a daybreak eclipse dragon on 7 because that lets you drop asol on 8, which is rough for a lot of decks to deal with.

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Vault Day!

    What do you get for the person who has everything?

    xwdgdx28qgrq.png

    I'm guessing some extra Wild Cards? :)

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    We had this discussion before but people take the emotes too seriously. If I use a Culling Strike on your dude, then you moonlight to buff them over the threshold, and then I frostbite you, yeah I'm gonna do the MF gun fingers emote. When you have a Deny for my Deny, I'm gonna do the Nocturne kaiba emote. If you're taking a long time to think during a critical moment and moving shit on and off the stack, I'm gonna sweating Ezreal you. And at the end, if you played a good game at the end I'm going to use Vlad to raise a cup.

    There are definitely people who are just trying to troll the fuck out of you with it but really I'm just using it to communicate and have some fun like you would do with a real opponent sitting across the table from you. "Hey, good game." "Damn, you got me." "Aha! Well in response to your response, I will..."

    Also I dunno how you could be annoyed often enough to ignore anyone. I'd say the vast majority of people emote not at all, and then the next biggest tranche of people emote only at beginning/end of game. That leaves a small percentage of fun people and trolls and it just doesn't happen that often.

    There's a reason most other kinds of competitive games (like sports) generally don't let you do this kind of shit. Especially at the amateur level where there's not really monetary or entertainment incentives involved.

    Like, what you are talking about is a long winded way of saying "Get over it, it's just words".

    I wouldn't say I'm saying to get over it. I'm saying you're probably reading more into it than is necessarily there.

    Dover is right, it's hard to get context on the internet which means you're imparting what you want onto it. If you want to see it as fun and playful you can, and if you want to see it as trolling and dickish, you can. The guy can't jump through your screen and say "no that wasn't fun what I meant is 'fuck you eat my shit scrub.'"

    Except it doesn't matter what you see it as, it matters how it effects the other person. And considering the emotes are often deliberately designed to be gloating, I'm not sure what the other context is. And hell, if it's about celebration you literally don't even need to send an emote to the other person. They don't need to know you are celebrating. When you are sending an emote you are deliberately trying to say something to the other player.

    And for the other things brought up, sports do have people celebrating goals or whatever. But that's celebrating with your team, not gloating over the other team. And excessive celebration or especially going over and doing it directly to the other team is considered at best bad sportsmanship. And in the context of a video game where people aren't even in the same space as each other, you don't need to worry because nothing you do can even be seen by the other side. Except if you deliberately send it to them.

    You literally don't have to say anything to the other player, so what exactly are you communicating when you go out of your way to send something to them? What kind of behavior are the developers suggesting is appropriate when they design a system to let you do that and then give you emotes that are often deliberately designed to communicate negative emotional messages?

    It does matter what you, specifically, see it as. I think given the exact same game against the same player making the same emotes in the same context I'll be more likely to read it as "oh this dude is being playful let's emote back" and you'll read it as "what a fucking dick."

    You're right that you don't have to say anything, that's true for most life situations. I think it's more fun when you DO talk to people in some contexts. I've played against players in real life who literally just say "I tap this. I play this. I attack you with this. Response?" They're communicating the bare minimum and it's more mechanical and less fun. I think it's fun when you have some banter. "I'm going to kill that with this?" "Mmmm, nope! Counterspell." "Ooooh, you bastard, okay you got me." I don't even send emotes for celebratory purposes and I can't think of one that would do that. Maybe the confetti poro? My end game emote is intended as a "good game." You don't have to extend a hand to your opponent after the game in real life, or acknowledge the game even happened. But it's nicer and more fun when you do.

    Emotes can be a welcome, a gentle tease, an acknowledgement of defeat or a good play on either player's part, a particularly sweaty moment, or countless other things! I do think it's a fun way to communicate without allowing people to hurl slurs at you based on the composition of your deck though in that pretty rare outlier. I guess what I'd say I'm communicating is "Hi, good game. Let's have some fun!"

    There's so many emotes that are designed to not mean "good game" though. Like, obviously so. And that's not even counting the way many are actually used. They didn't eliminate the ability to hurl insults at other people, they just changed how people do it. And support it too.

    And on an individual level, again, what do you think the other person is reading from your emotes? You talk about being playful and yet that is entirely dependant on context, body language, tone and all sorts of other things. Which is why in real life you generally change the things you say depending on how well you know the person and how much you understand how they will interpret what you say. And online, they are literally a stranger you know nothing about. You have no context for the interaction. You have literally no way of knowing what the things you say mean to them. You don't even have a way to walk something back if they take it the wrong way. This is a situation with a million red flags in terms of how much you should watch what you are saying.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    With these reveals, I'm even more confused as to why the cards showed yesterday focus so much on speeding up countdowns on landmarks. There has to be some unrevealed big timer landmarks, because the Sun Disk isn't enough to warrant those other cards.

    It's gotta be the new Targon mountain-guy champ that's coming. He's got to be based around some kind of big-ass countdown landmarks because they've now given us just so many tools for doing that and Zilean doesn't need any of it.

    Zilean over all looks interesting though. Like a solid card that interacts with a few different mechanics in interesting ways. Could maybe hit several decks.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Meanwhile, in the Lab of Legends....

    nzonuzjno3uz.png

    This is the third fight and I've got the upgrade that lets summoned units with 5+ attack strike the weakest enemy. My Darius has the summon a copy of me upgrade.

    So with my leveled LeBlanc on the board, my Darius came into play, striking and killing two enemies, which triggered LeBlanc's ability to allow me to summon two more Darius. I can't wait to see how this ends up at the end of the run.

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I finally got my first Hard mode lab done with Aphelios. I dunno why I struggle with his deck so much when you can do fucking anything with it, but I do.

    Once I get the "buffs are permanent" spell in my deck he really takes off though.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Lol I had the darius create an ephemeral copy of me thing once too. I think he also had a 2/2 buff as well. It almost didn't matter what else I did in the games because that freight train was coming through turn 6-7 every game.

    Some of the spoiled cards today seem like they could be very impactful. A strike card in bilgewater, and the go wide anti wall removal. The frostbite card gives you the countdown for a win con. The sumpwork dudes are sounding some fucking alarms for some semi combofinisher style deck with copies. The noxus cards aren't insane but look like they could have their place in the right deck.

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    ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    We had this discussion before but people take the emotes too seriously. If I use a Culling Strike on your dude, then you moonlight to buff them over the threshold, and then I frostbite you, yeah I'm gonna do the MF gun fingers emote. When you have a Deny for my Deny, I'm gonna do the Nocturne kaiba emote. If you're taking a long time to think during a critical moment and moving shit on and off the stack, I'm gonna sweating Ezreal you. And at the end, if you played a good game at the end I'm going to use Vlad to raise a cup.

    There are definitely people who are just trying to troll the fuck out of you with it but really I'm just using it to communicate and have some fun like you would do with a real opponent sitting across the table from you. "Hey, good game." "Damn, you got me." "Aha! Well in response to your response, I will..."

    Also I dunno how you could be annoyed often enough to ignore anyone. I'd say the vast majority of people emote not at all, and then the next biggest tranche of people emote only at beginning/end of game. That leaves a small percentage of fun people and trolls and it just doesn't happen that often.

    There's a reason most other kinds of competitive games (like sports) generally don't let you do this kind of shit. Especially at the amateur level where there's not really monetary or entertainment incentives involved.

    Like, what you are talking about is a long winded way of saying "Get over it, it's just words".

    I wouldn't say I'm saying to get over it. I'm saying you're probably reading more into it than is necessarily there.

    Dover is right, it's hard to get context on the internet which means you're imparting what you want onto it. If you want to see it as fun and playful you can, and if you want to see it as trolling and dickish, you can. The guy can't jump through your screen and say "no that wasn't fun what I meant is 'fuck you eat my shit scrub.'"

    Except it doesn't matter what you see it as, it matters how it effects the other person. And considering the emotes are often deliberately designed to be gloating, I'm not sure what the other context is. And hell, if it's about celebration you literally don't even need to send an emote to the other person. They don't need to know you are celebrating. When you are sending an emote you are deliberately trying to say something to the other player.

    And for the other things brought up, sports do have people celebrating goals or whatever. But that's celebrating with your team, not gloating over the other team. And excessive celebration or especially going over and doing it directly to the other team is considered at best bad sportsmanship. And in the context of a video game where people aren't even in the same space as each other, you don't need to worry because nothing you do can even be seen by the other side. Except if you deliberately send it to them.

    You literally don't have to say anything to the other player, so what exactly are you communicating when you go out of your way to send something to them? What kind of behavior are the developers suggesting is appropriate when they design a system to let you do that and then give you emotes that are often deliberately designed to communicate negative emotional messages?

    It does matter what you, specifically, see it as. I think given the exact same game against the same player making the same emotes in the same context I'll be more likely to read it as "oh this dude is being playful let's emote back" and you'll read it as "what a fucking dick."

    You're right that you don't have to say anything, that's true for most life situations. I think it's more fun when you DO talk to people in some contexts. I've played against players in real life who literally just say "I tap this. I play this. I attack you with this. Response?" They're communicating the bare minimum and it's more mechanical and less fun. I think it's fun when you have some banter. "I'm going to kill that with this?" "Mmmm, nope! Counterspell." "Ooooh, you bastard, okay you got me." I don't even send emotes for celebratory purposes and I can't think of one that would do that. Maybe the confetti poro? My end game emote is intended as a "good game." You don't have to extend a hand to your opponent after the game in real life, or acknowledge the game even happened. But it's nicer and more fun when you do.

    Emotes can be a welcome, a gentle tease, an acknowledgement of defeat or a good play on either player's part, a particularly sweaty moment, or countless other things! I do think it's a fun way to communicate without allowing people to hurl slurs at you based on the composition of your deck though in that pretty rare outlier. I guess what I'd say I'm communicating is "Hi, good game. Let's have some fun!"

    There's so many emotes that are designed to not mean "good game" though. Like, obviously so. And that's not even counting the way many are actually used. They didn't eliminate the ability to hurl insults at other people, they just changed how people do it. And support it too.

    And on an individual level, again, what do you think the other person is reading from your emotes? You talk about being playful and yet that is entirely dependant on context, body language, tone and all sorts of other things. Which is why in real life you generally change the things you say depending on how well you know the person and how much you understand how they will interpret what you say. And online, they are literally a stranger you know nothing about. You have no context for the interaction. You have literally no way of knowing what the things you say mean to them. You don't even have a way to walk something back if they take it the wrong way. This is a situation with a million red flags in terms of how much you should watch what you are saying.

    I really think you're putting a lot into the emotes that isn't inherently there. Like if someone Braum waves, Shen bows, or Vladimir cup raises at the beginning are you just going to assume they're trolling you? You're coming from a base assumption that everyone is out to troll you and I'm coming from a base assumption that everyone out there is being fun and friendly until proven otherwise and I think that entirely explains the difference in our enjoyment of emotes.

    And yeah, there are non good game emotes. They're so you can communicate other things.

    ChaosHat on
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I am greatly interested in the 9-mana freeze spell for my Anivia deck. I'd use it to replace Ruination. Stopping the enemy and filling up the board with junk is pretty powerful. And since I already main deck one copy of Passage Unearned, I can full wipe their board when they go to attack next.

    That's pretty nasty.

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    We had this discussion before but people take the emotes too seriously. If I use a Culling Strike on your dude, then you moonlight to buff them over the threshold, and then I frostbite you, yeah I'm gonna do the MF gun fingers emote. When you have a Deny for my Deny, I'm gonna do the Nocturne kaiba emote. If you're taking a long time to think during a critical moment and moving shit on and off the stack, I'm gonna sweating Ezreal you. And at the end, if you played a good game at the end I'm going to use Vlad to raise a cup.

    There are definitely people who are just trying to troll the fuck out of you with it but really I'm just using it to communicate and have some fun like you would do with a real opponent sitting across the table from you. "Hey, good game." "Damn, you got me." "Aha! Well in response to your response, I will..."

    Also I dunno how you could be annoyed often enough to ignore anyone. I'd say the vast majority of people emote not at all, and then the next biggest tranche of people emote only at beginning/end of game. That leaves a small percentage of fun people and trolls and it just doesn't happen that often.

    There's a reason most other kinds of competitive games (like sports) generally don't let you do this kind of shit. Especially at the amateur level where there's not really monetary or entertainment incentives involved.

    Like, what you are talking about is a long winded way of saying "Get over it, it's just words".

    I wouldn't say I'm saying to get over it. I'm saying you're probably reading more into it than is necessarily there.

    Dover is right, it's hard to get context on the internet which means you're imparting what you want onto it. If you want to see it as fun and playful you can, and if you want to see it as trolling and dickish, you can. The guy can't jump through your screen and say "no that wasn't fun what I meant is 'fuck you eat my shit scrub.'"

    Except it doesn't matter what you see it as, it matters how it effects the other person. And considering the emotes are often deliberately designed to be gloating, I'm not sure what the other context is. And hell, if it's about celebration you literally don't even need to send an emote to the other person. They don't need to know you are celebrating. When you are sending an emote you are deliberately trying to say something to the other player.

    And for the other things brought up, sports do have people celebrating goals or whatever. But that's celebrating with your team, not gloating over the other team. And excessive celebration or especially going over and doing it directly to the other team is considered at best bad sportsmanship. And in the context of a video game where people aren't even in the same space as each other, you don't need to worry because nothing you do can even be seen by the other side. Except if you deliberately send it to them.

    You literally don't have to say anything to the other player, so what exactly are you communicating when you go out of your way to send something to them? What kind of behavior are the developers suggesting is appropriate when they design a system to let you do that and then give you emotes that are often deliberately designed to communicate negative emotional messages?

    It does matter what you, specifically, see it as. I think given the exact same game against the same player making the same emotes in the same context I'll be more likely to read it as "oh this dude is being playful let's emote back" and you'll read it as "what a fucking dick."

    You're right that you don't have to say anything, that's true for most life situations. I think it's more fun when you DO talk to people in some contexts. I've played against players in real life who literally just say "I tap this. I play this. I attack you with this. Response?" They're communicating the bare minimum and it's more mechanical and less fun. I think it's fun when you have some banter. "I'm going to kill that with this?" "Mmmm, nope! Counterspell." "Ooooh, you bastard, okay you got me." I don't even send emotes for celebratory purposes and I can't think of one that would do that. Maybe the confetti poro? My end game emote is intended as a "good game." You don't have to extend a hand to your opponent after the game in real life, or acknowledge the game even happened. But it's nicer and more fun when you do.

    Emotes can be a welcome, a gentle tease, an acknowledgement of defeat or a good play on either player's part, a particularly sweaty moment, or countless other things! I do think it's a fun way to communicate without allowing people to hurl slurs at you based on the composition of your deck though in that pretty rare outlier. I guess what I'd say I'm communicating is "Hi, good game. Let's have some fun!"

    There's so many emotes that are designed to not mean "good game" though. Like, obviously so. And that's not even counting the way many are actually used. They didn't eliminate the ability to hurl insults at other people, they just changed how people do it. And support it too.

    And on an individual level, again, what do you think the other person is reading from your emotes? You talk about being playful and yet that is entirely dependant on context, body language, tone and all sorts of other things. Which is why in real life you generally change the things you say depending on how well you know the person and how much you understand how they will interpret what you say. And online, they are literally a stranger you know nothing about. You have no context for the interaction. You have literally no way of knowing what the things you say mean to them. You don't even have a way to walk something back if they take it the wrong way. This is a situation with a million red flags in terms of how much you should watch what you are saying.

    I really think you're putting a lot into the emotes that isn't inherently there. Like if someone Braum waves, Shen bows, or Vladimir cup raises at the beginning are you just going to assume they're trolling you? You're coming from a base assumption that everyone is out to troll you and I'm coming from a base assumption that everyone out there is being fun and friendly until proven otherwise and I think that entirely explains the difference in our enjoyment of emotes.

    And yeah, there are non good game emotes. They're so you can communicate other things.

    "other things". Come on dude. What "other things"? The attempt to be vague here is talking around the entire point.

    I'm coming from the base assumption of how people actually communicate and what the context is and the lack to use other things that are part of normal communication (tone, body language, etc) to make your point understood. Again, the problem is not what you mean, it's what other people hear. And your entire argument this whole time has been that they just need to "get over it".

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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I am greatly interested in the 9-mana freeze spell for my Anivia deck. I'd use it to replace Ruination. Stopping the enemy and filling up the board with junk is pretty powerful. And since I already main deck one copy of Passage Unearned, I can full wipe their board when they go to attack next.

    That's pretty nasty.

    the freeze spell basically just means they can't block that turn. i imagine the alphastrike following up on that should just end the game. i think it may be something that could get thrown in the ashe/leblanc deck because just having a couple 5/x dudes and then nuking their chump blockers should end the game.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I finally got another win on Heroic mode Lab of Legends. Been like a damn week since that last one. Was with MF deck of all things, but realistically Nassus carried the day as he has so many times before.

    I definitely think Heroic is about where this entire mode starts to breakdown though. There's a lot of levels, especially in the last 4 or so, where any kind of bad draw on your part and/or really good draw on their part will just completely fuck you no matter what you do. It starts to feel extremely RNG dependant because a single bad start means your run is finished.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I am greatly interested in the 9-mana freeze spell for my Anivia deck. I'd use it to replace Ruination. Stopping the enemy and filling up the board with junk is pretty powerful. And since I already main deck one copy of Passage Unearned, I can full wipe their board when they go to attack next.

    That's pretty nasty.

    the freeze spell basically just means they can't block that turn. i imagine the alphastrike following up on that should just end the game. i think it may be something that could get thrown in the ashe/leblanc deck because just having a couple 5/x dudes and then nuking their chump blockers should end the game.

    It's nice that you can use it offensive or defensively. Ruination is amazing, but nukes your own board. With Anivia, that isn't as big a deal, but losing some other units can limit your follow-up.

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    I don’t worry about how my opponent is going to interpret a vaguely playful emote because if they’re hell bent on assuming the worst in a meaningless in-game interaction, and willing to get mad over it, that seems like a “them” problem.

    Even still, I’ll generally only do it once and wait to see if they respond. If they reply with an emote of their own, great - we’re all having fun. If they don’t, I leave it at that.

    But I’m not going to assume that the only possible interaction between opponents is automatically antagonistic in a game we’re both playing for fun.

    And really, in my experience when someone is choosing to be a dick via emotes, they don’t leave it open to interpretation, they spam that shit until it’s perfectly clear what they’re doing, at which point the mute option is right there.

    UnbrokenEva on
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    ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    We had this discussion before but people take the emotes too seriously. If I use a Culling Strike on your dude, then you moonlight to buff them over the threshold, and then I frostbite you, yeah I'm gonna do the MF gun fingers emote. When you have a Deny for my Deny, I'm gonna do the Nocturne kaiba emote. If you're taking a long time to think during a critical moment and moving shit on and off the stack, I'm gonna sweating Ezreal you. And at the end, if you played a good game at the end I'm going to use Vlad to raise a cup.

    There are definitely people who are just trying to troll the fuck out of you with it but really I'm just using it to communicate and have some fun like you would do with a real opponent sitting across the table from you. "Hey, good game." "Damn, you got me." "Aha! Well in response to your response, I will..."

    Also I dunno how you could be annoyed often enough to ignore anyone. I'd say the vast majority of people emote not at all, and then the next biggest tranche of people emote only at beginning/end of game. That leaves a small percentage of fun people and trolls and it just doesn't happen that often.

    There's a reason most other kinds of competitive games (like sports) generally don't let you do this kind of shit. Especially at the amateur level where there's not really monetary or entertainment incentives involved.

    Like, what you are talking about is a long winded way of saying "Get over it, it's just words".

    I wouldn't say I'm saying to get over it. I'm saying you're probably reading more into it than is necessarily there.

    Dover is right, it's hard to get context on the internet which means you're imparting what you want onto it. If you want to see it as fun and playful you can, and if you want to see it as trolling and dickish, you can. The guy can't jump through your screen and say "no that wasn't fun what I meant is 'fuck you eat my shit scrub.'"

    Except it doesn't matter what you see it as, it matters how it effects the other person. And considering the emotes are often deliberately designed to be gloating, I'm not sure what the other context is. And hell, if it's about celebration you literally don't even need to send an emote to the other person. They don't need to know you are celebrating. When you are sending an emote you are deliberately trying to say something to the other player.

    And for the other things brought up, sports do have people celebrating goals or whatever. But that's celebrating with your team, not gloating over the other team. And excessive celebration or especially going over and doing it directly to the other team is considered at best bad sportsmanship. And in the context of a video game where people aren't even in the same space as each other, you don't need to worry because nothing you do can even be seen by the other side. Except if you deliberately send it to them.

    You literally don't have to say anything to the other player, so what exactly are you communicating when you go out of your way to send something to them? What kind of behavior are the developers suggesting is appropriate when they design a system to let you do that and then give you emotes that are often deliberately designed to communicate negative emotional messages?

    It does matter what you, specifically, see it as. I think given the exact same game against the same player making the same emotes in the same context I'll be more likely to read it as "oh this dude is being playful let's emote back" and you'll read it as "what a fucking dick."

    You're right that you don't have to say anything, that's true for most life situations. I think it's more fun when you DO talk to people in some contexts. I've played against players in real life who literally just say "I tap this. I play this. I attack you with this. Response?" They're communicating the bare minimum and it's more mechanical and less fun. I think it's fun when you have some banter. "I'm going to kill that with this?" "Mmmm, nope! Counterspell." "Ooooh, you bastard, okay you got me." I don't even send emotes for celebratory purposes and I can't think of one that would do that. Maybe the confetti poro? My end game emote is intended as a "good game." You don't have to extend a hand to your opponent after the game in real life, or acknowledge the game even happened. But it's nicer and more fun when you do.

    Emotes can be a welcome, a gentle tease, an acknowledgement of defeat or a good play on either player's part, a particularly sweaty moment, or countless other things! I do think it's a fun way to communicate without allowing people to hurl slurs at you based on the composition of your deck though in that pretty rare outlier. I guess what I'd say I'm communicating is "Hi, good game. Let's have some fun!"

    There's so many emotes that are designed to not mean "good game" though. Like, obviously so. And that's not even counting the way many are actually used. They didn't eliminate the ability to hurl insults at other people, they just changed how people do it. And support it too.

    And on an individual level, again, what do you think the other person is reading from your emotes? You talk about being playful and yet that is entirely dependant on context, body language, tone and all sorts of other things. Which is why in real life you generally change the things you say depending on how well you know the person and how much you understand how they will interpret what you say. And online, they are literally a stranger you know nothing about. You have no context for the interaction. You have literally no way of knowing what the things you say mean to them. You don't even have a way to walk something back if they take it the wrong way. This is a situation with a million red flags in terms of how much you should watch what you are saying.

    I really think you're putting a lot into the emotes that isn't inherently there. Like if someone Braum waves, Shen bows, or Vladimir cup raises at the beginning are you just going to assume they're trolling you? You're coming from a base assumption that everyone is out to troll you and I'm coming from a base assumption that everyone out there is being fun and friendly until proven otherwise and I think that entirely explains the difference in our enjoyment of emotes.

    And yeah, there are non good game emotes. They're so you can communicate other things.

    "other things". Come on dude. What "other things"? The attempt to be vague here is talking around the entire point.

    I'm coming from the base assumption of how people actually communicate and what the context is and the lack to use other things that are part of normal communication (tone, body language, etc) to make your point understood. Again, the problem is not what you mean, it's what other people hear. And your entire argument this whole time has been that they just need to "get over it".

    Ezreal communicates nervousness. Quinn communicates confusion or thinking. Heimer communicates thinking or a "hey are you there?" Jinx expresses shock, good fortune, bad fortune, whatever. Nocturne communicates "oh no!" Yasuo conveys "nope, not this time!" or "not so fast!" Miss Fortune is a "got you!" If you can't determine what the emotes could mean beyond trolling I think that just underscores my point. The attempt to be vague was simply me trying to avoid having to list every possible emote and interpret it for you. Most everything you've said about why emote communication is bad could just as easily be leveled against emailing, text messages, or this forum (body language, tone) too. There also IS context to the emotes, the game is the context.

    And as far as getting over it, I never said that and you don't have to. The mute button is right there.

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I am greatly interested in the 9-mana freeze spell for my Anivia deck. I'd use it to replace Ruination. Stopping the enemy and filling up the board with junk is pretty powerful. And since I already main deck one copy of Passage Unearned, I can full wipe their board when they go to attack next.

    That's pretty nasty.

    the freeze spell basically just means they can't block that turn. i imagine the alphastrike following up on that should just end the game. i think it may be something that could get thrown in the ashe/leblanc deck because just having a couple 5/x dudes and then nuking their chump blockers should end the game.

    It's nice that you can use it offensive or defensively. Ruination is amazing, but nukes your own board. With Anivia, that isn't as big a deal, but losing some other units can limit your follow-up.

    Buried in Ice also comboes with Passage Unearned. On the turn they thaw they meet the Passage conditional.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I am greatly interested in the 9-mana freeze spell for my Anivia deck. I'd use it to replace Ruination. Stopping the enemy and filling up the board with junk is pretty powerful. And since I already main deck one copy of Passage Unearned, I can full wipe their board when they go to attack next.

    That's pretty nasty.

    the freeze spell basically just means they can't block that turn. i imagine the alphastrike following up on that should just end the game. i think it may be something that could get thrown in the ashe/leblanc deck because just having a couple 5/x dudes and then nuking their chump blockers should end the game.

    It's nice that you can use it offensive or defensively. Ruination is amazing, but nukes your own board. With Anivia, that isn't as big a deal, but losing some other units can limit your follow-up.

    Buried in Ice also comboes with Passage Unearned. On the turn they thaw they meet the Passage conditional.

    Yeah, I already main deck one copy of Passage Unearned, so that's just icing on the cake.

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Three loses in a row to Thresh/Nasus with each loss highlighted by a Fast Speed Atrocity to my lethal attack. Can we please do something about Atrocity already?

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Okay for some reason I was not parsing what the fuck Asol's leveled up bullshit was. Okay. Jesus wept.

    Also Eclipse 7 and Asol 8 is some lip-smackin' finger-lickin' gooooood.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Okay for some reason I was not parsing what the fuck Asol's leveled up bullshit was. Okay. Jesus wept.

    Also Eclipse 7 and Asol 8 is some lip-smackin' finger-lickin' gooooood.

    If you ever get Asol leveled and one of the choices you get to invoke is the fill your hand with celestial cards and refill your mana, DO IT. That is some god tier near BM level bullshit. usually they just concede though because youre going to fill your board with cthulus friends.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    After losing those three straight to Thesh/Nasus, I queued up with Kench/Sorraka and destroyed the next opponent, which was again Thresh/Nasus. It's a pretty solid counter to Thresh/Nasus since your units have lots of health, can trade without dying (no Slay triggers), and you just eat up anything to meddlesome.

    Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Spiral Stairs is the best Taliyah synergy we've seen yet, and it still stacks up poorly against Zenith Blade.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I'm actually way more interested in Rockfall Path.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    These all seem bad and not worth the trade off. You're gonna pay three mana and wait three more turns for a fleeting, slow buff? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Rockfall path is maybe playable in a dedicated landmark deck with ways to surprise burn off the countdown but otherwise it just gets blown up by a cheap creature since it's so telegraphed?

    I feel like Riot is trying to make landmarks a thing so I guess it wouldn't surprise me if there's a viable deck focused around them at some point if they're going to push it but they just seem so slow and bad tempo wise.

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