I've been slowly coming out to friends and such, and recently updated my pronouns on my work email and socials, so I might as well do so here as well!
I'm queer and nonbinary (he/they). I guess if I were to split hairs I'd be bi/pan, but queer just feels better to me. I like how ambiguous it is, I feel it matches my general feelings towards sexuality and gender identity.
So hi, nice to have a pride month where I'm actually me.
Sometime last month, I finally admitted to myself that I actually am a woman, and not just some weird guy who has desperately wished to be one for a lifetime. Since then I've come out to close family members I trust (which was nerve-wracking, even though it has turned out well), and I have an appointment to see a therapist soon and figure out how to proceed from here.
Even making these first few steps has had an amazing effect on my life. It's like I'm suddenly able to care about my life, my health, my environment, and my future, when for years (going on decades) none of it mattered to me. I'm almost able to see myself as a real person.
Anyway, I don't really have a presence on these forums, but I've been reading through this thread and its previous iterations over the past few weeks, and seeing some of the journeys various people here have taken has been inspiring. Happy Pride month, y'all.
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
“Research in laboratory animals shows that behavioral sex differences depend heavily on the effects of testosterone on gene expression in the developing brain. However, in people, it is also likely that many behavioral sex differences depend on socialization as boys or girls. We wanted to test whether gender socialization is the only cause of human behavioral sex differences, or whether testosterone might influence the development of the brain more directly, as it does in other mammals.”
...
The researchers found that men with IHH tended to have less stereotypically masculine childhood behaviors compared to typically-developing men. In other words, men with IHH were more likely to recall preferring girls as playmates, experimenting with makeup and jewelry, wearing girls’ or women’s clothing when playing “dress up,” feeling less masculine than their peers, and not feeling good about being a boy. This was particularly true among men who also reported undescended testes at birth, a marker of low perinatal androgens.
“We found that men with IHH reported less childhood gender-role conformity than typically-developing men, suggesting that some of the variation in childhood gender-role behavior is due to the direct effects of testosterone on patterns of gene expression in the developing brain,” Puts told PsyPost.
“Research in laboratory animals shows that behavioral sex differences depend heavily on the effects of testosterone on gene expression in the developing brain. However, in people, it is also likely that many behavioral sex differences depend on socialization as boys or girls. We wanted to test whether gender socialization is the only cause of human behavioral sex differences, or whether testosterone might influence the development of the brain more directly, as it does in other mammals.”
...
The researchers found that men with IHH tended to have less stereotypically masculine childhood behaviors compared to typically-developing men. In other words, men with IHH were more likely to recall preferring girls as playmates, experimenting with makeup and jewelry, wearing girls’ or women’s clothing when playing “dress up,” feeling less masculine than their peers, and not feeling good about being a boy. This was particularly true among men who also reported undescended testes at birth, a marker of low perinatal androgens.
“We found that men with IHH reported less childhood gender-role conformity than typically-developing men, suggesting that some of the variation in childhood gender-role behavior is due to the direct effects of testosterone on patterns of gene expression in the developing brain,” Puts told PsyPost.
could someone who is more... scientifically literate... than I am, let me know if they think this study/paper is credible?
Published in a decent (impact factor 4.9) journal. Kinda low n# for men with IHH (65) but it seems to be relatively rare so getting more participants would likely be difficult. Demographics also skew heavily towards white (80+% of participants) which may actually be a good thing, as they're likely all being raised with more similar ideas of what masculine traits are.
Paper is a little light on data and it's all based on self reporting surveys, but the survey seems well established and cited, it maybe a little dated (first developed in the '77, but I guess that's kinda a good thing since most participants would have been raised in the 70's and 80's, so ideas around masculinity during the time the survey was developed and when the people were raised match up).
All in all seems like a solid, if limited, study that builds off of animal work showing testosterone treatment early in development alters brain gene expression and function to take on typically masculine behaviors.
Edit: TL;DR I'm a post-doctoral researcher, so I have a lot of experience reading and analyzing papers, and this one seems solid if limited by the way you have to do human studies, especially human behavior studies.
Cruor on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited June 2022
[65] men with IHH, along with 32 women with IHH, 463 typically-developing men, and 1,207 typically-developing women, completed a childhood gender nonconformity questionnaire in which they were asked about their peer preferences, toy preferences, dress-up play, fantasy play, and career aspirations as youth.
This is literally all you need to discredit the entite paper.
-Self assessments are bunk and fail every test of rigor.
-The variability of these group sizes is some clownshoes shit to a degree where if they weren't clearly so embarassingly incompetent that they just took every response they got without trying to set up proper controls, I would accuse them of p-hacking.
Edit: my bona fides are that I have a PhD in genetics.
3cl1ps3 on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
“Research in laboratory animals shows that behavioral sex differences depend heavily on the effects of testosterone on gene expression in the developing brain. However, in people, it is also likely that many behavioral sex differences depend on socialization as boys or girls. We wanted to test whether gender socialization is the only cause of human behavioral sex differences, or whether testosterone might influence the development of the brain more directly, as it does in other mammals.”
...
The researchers found that men with IHH tended to have less stereotypically masculine childhood behaviors compared to typically-developing men. In other words, men with IHH were more likely to recall preferring girls as playmates, experimenting with makeup and jewelry, wearing girls’ or women’s clothing when playing “dress up,” feeling less masculine than their peers, and not feeling good about being a boy. This was particularly true among men who also reported undescended testes at birth, a marker of low perinatal androgens.
“We found that men with IHH reported less childhood gender-role conformity than typically-developing men, suggesting that some of the variation in childhood gender-role behavior is due to the direct effects of testosterone on patterns of gene expression in the developing brain,” Puts told PsyPost.
could someone who is more... scientifically literate... than I am, let me know if they think this study/paper is credible?
Published in a decent (impact factor 4.9) journal. Kinda low n# for men with IHH (65) but it seems to be relatively rare so getting more participants would likely be difficult. Demographics also skew heavily towards white (80+% of participants) which may actually be a good thing, as they're likely all being raised with more similar ideas of what masculine traits are.
Paper is a little light on data and it's all based on self reporting surveys, but the survey seems well established and cited, it maybe a little dated (first developed in the '77, but I guess that's kinda a good thing since most participants would have been raised in the 70's and 80's, so ideas around masculinity during the time the survey was developed and when the people were raised match up).
All in all seems like a solid, if limited, study that builds off of animal work showing testosterone treatment early in development alters brain gene expression and function to take on typically masculine behaviors.
Edit: TL;DR I'm a post-doctoral researcher, so I have a lot of experience reading and analyzing papers, and this one seems solid if limited by the way you have to do human studies, especially human behavior studies.
Decent impact factor psych journals publish provably false or unreproducible shit all the time, because it is comically easy to prove any point when you use qualitative data (self assessments) for quantitative questions (does a specific developmental environment meaningfully affect gender presentation).
I'm not even going get into their point about trying to compare human gender to other mammals and what a fucking ridiculous proposition that is to use as a starting point.
“Research in laboratory animals shows that behavioral sex differences depend heavily on the effects of testosterone on gene expression in the developing brain. However, in people, it is also likely that many behavioral sex differences depend on socialization as boys or girls. We wanted to test whether gender socialization is the only cause of human behavioral sex differences, or whether testosterone might influence the development of the brain more directly, as it does in other mammals.”
...
The researchers found that men with IHH tended to have less stereotypically masculine childhood behaviors compared to typically-developing men. In other words, men with IHH were more likely to recall preferring girls as playmates, experimenting with makeup and jewelry, wearing girls’ or women’s clothing when playing “dress up,” feeling less masculine than their peers, and not feeling good about being a boy. This was particularly true among men who also reported undescended testes at birth, a marker of low perinatal androgens.
“We found that men with IHH reported less childhood gender-role conformity than typically-developing men, suggesting that some of the variation in childhood gender-role behavior is due to the direct effects of testosterone on patterns of gene expression in the developing brain,” Puts told PsyPost.
could someone who is more... scientifically literate... than I am, let me know if they think this study/paper is credible?
Published in a decent (impact factor 4.9) journal. Kinda low n# for men with IHH (65) but it seems to be relatively rare so getting more participants would likely be difficult. Demographics also skew heavily towards white (80+% of participants) which may actually be a good thing, as they're likely all being raised with more similar ideas of what masculine traits are.
Paper is a little light on data and it's all based on self reporting surveys, but the survey seems well established and cited, it maybe a little dated (first developed in the '77, but I guess that's kinda a good thing since most participants would have been raised in the 70's and 80's, so ideas around masculinity during the time the survey was developed and when the people were raised match up).
All in all seems like a solid, if limited, study that builds off of animal work showing testosterone treatment early in development alters brain gene expression and function to take on typically masculine behaviors.
Edit: TL;DR I'm a post-doctoral researcher, so I have a lot of experience reading and analyzing papers, and this one seems solid if limited by the way you have to do human studies, especially human behavior studies.
Decent impact factor psych journals publish provably false or unreproducible shit all the time, because it is comically easy to prove any point when you use qualitative data (self assessments) for quantitative questions (does a specific developmental environment meaningfully affect gender presentation).
I'm not even going get into their point about trying to compare human gender to other mammals and what a fucking ridiculous proposition that is to use as a starting point.
The bolded is an issue, but like, unless a lot of people get really cool with a lot of unethical shit very fast, it's just kinda how these things go. Also thanks for another perspective! To be fair I'm in immunology and am only really dipping my toe into behavior stuff now, so you're probably a much better resource for this particular topic
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Oh yeah to clarify, the intensity of my posts is directed firmly at this paper and its authors, not you - I appreciate your perspective too!
[65] men with IHH, along with 32 women with IHH, 463 typically-developing men, and 1,207 typically-developing women, completed a childhood gender nonconformity questionnaire in which they were asked about their peer preferences, toy preferences, dress-up play, fantasy play, and career aspirations as youth.
This is literally all you need to discredit the entite paper.
-Self assessments are bunk and fail every test of rigor.
-The variability of these group sizes is some clownshoes shit to a degree where if they weren't clearly so embarassingly incompetent that they just took every response they got without trying to set up proper controls, I would accuse them of p-hacking.
Edit: my bona fides are that I have a PhD in genetics.
Worth noting that self-assessments are used for a lot of psych research in useful ways. This way seems to be pretty bad admittedly, but a lot of the research into therapy stuff requires self assessment on some level. It is generally frowned on to do more direct brain experimentation in the post WW2 era for very good reasons.
That said this one seems super bad for other reasons. Some of it you have pointed out. With self-assessments it is generally accepted the weak point in your data for figuring this stuff out absolutely is participant responses. You try to make it the best you can get. As a rule that means you don't have them remember information from decades ago. The information is also very unreliable as they are memories the participants have likely recalled a lot over the years at different times which makes them much less reliable than other memories.
It honestly seems like a super dumb way to do this study which is slightly telling ultimately. You are looking for quantitative data so use quantitative data. You can test the hormone levels of children now and have much more reliable data on their gender conforming behaviors. I am always very suspicious of research that seems determined to get their information the worst way. All the papers I have come across that do that are bad.
I am the least qualified with maybe most exposure as I am working on my dissertation for a Counselor Education and Supervision PhD specifically on trans and non-binary stuff.
I tend to be pretty quiet about it, but this past year I've managed to hash out what my whole deal is with a bit more definition, and I’ve landed solidly in camp grey-pansexual. So that’s nice.
Happy Pride Month! I’ve been very busy, today is my last day at my current job and then I’m moving tomorrow. After a lot of encouragement I am also planning on asking the cute enby I’ve been mentioning out. A mutual friend suggested I invite them to a homewarming celebration and ask there and my soon to be former boss gave me a gift card to Cheesecake Factory with instructions to take them to dinner there. I also found out they like Vampire the Masquerade a lot and their favorite clan, so I grabbed them a Non-binary Toreador mug. And a genderfluid Tzimisce mug for myself. I’ve also talked with them about potentially trying out a more feminine name after I move, and they talked about trying a more non-binary name.
Anxious and terrified and excited, but hopefully this all works out.
I have to wake and leave my house by 5:45 am tomorrow morning to get to my FFS.
This is the part I don't like
Also the clinic sent me a post-op advice, and it tickled me that the biggest font warning was
"DO NOT FORCEFULLY PULL YOU HAIR BACK WHILE WASHING OR
COMBING"
Because you know, you could suddenly find yourself without a scalp.
Psykoma on
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I have to wake and leave my house by 5:45 am tomorrow morning to get to my FFS.
This is the part I don't like
Also the clinic sent me a post-op advice, and it tickled me that the biggest font warning was
"DO NOT FORCEFULLY PULL YOU HAIR BACK WHILE WASHING OR
COMBING"
Because you know, you could suddenly find yourself without a scalp.
Note to self stick to wigs during FFS recovery period
King Riptor on
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I have to wake and leave my house by 5:45 am tomorrow morning to get to my FFS.
This is the part I don't like
Also the clinic sent me a post-op advice, and it tickled me that the biggest font warning was
"DO NOT FORCEFULLY PULL YOU HAIR BACK WHILE WASHING OR
COMBING"
Because you know, you could suddenly find yourself without a scalp.
Note to self stick to wigs during FFS recovery period
I've bought myself an ample supply of 80s style-inspired headbands
So uh apparently my replacement therapist "no longer works with the persad center" and sent emails containing " false information" to her assigned patients.
I honestly hadnt ever heard from this lady even though she was assigned to me 4 weeks ago( I left several voicemails) and now Im kinda wondering if she was a secret terf or something. Im not gonna ask but I feel like I dodged a bullet. Now I have to wait for them to find a doctor in my network. Yay
My previous therapist had to take a medical leave. I miss him. Also I think Im therapist cursed
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
What I found disconcerting was footage of them being...arrested? And the cops not actively detaining them were standing with their back to the guys, giving the impression that they considered the observers more of a threat than the alt-right chuds.
Like, it seemed like they had everything under control...but still, knowing what we know about cops...
I hope he gets a papercut between his fingers before having to handle so many sliced lemons.
but not 4 of them or then he will go to kung-fu universe
+5
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MsAnthropyThe Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the RhythmThe City of FlowersRegistered Userregular
Ahhhhhhhh! Just sent in the remaining balance for FFS. Never been so happy to say goodbye to so much money. I should probably brush up on my language skills now.
What I found disconcerting was footage of them being...arrested? And the cops not actively detaining them were standing with their back to the guys, giving the impression that they considered the observers more of a threat than the alt-right chuds.
Like, it seemed like they had everything under control...but still, knowing what we know about cops...
We should definitely be talking about this because fuck those assholes I'm glad they got arrested.
ACAB but as far as the folks facing outward, charitably I'd say if I was bringing in a bunch of officers to arrest a bunch of folks at a big event, I'd bring some officers designated to be perimeter/crowd control whose job was just to turn away anyone who was getting too close from the outside.
But also I would simply not leave an active shooter in a classroom full of kids so wtf do I know about being a cop
What I found disconcerting was footage of them being...arrested? And the cops not actively detaining them were standing with their back to the guys, giving the impression that they considered the observers more of a threat than the alt-right chuds.
Like, it seemed like they had everything under control...but still, knowing what we know about cops...
We should definitely be talking about this because fuck those assholes I'm glad they got arrested.
ACAB but as far as the folks facing outward, charitably I'd say if I was bringing in a bunch of officers to arrest a bunch of folks at a big event, I'd bring some officers designated to be perimeter/crowd control whose job was just to turn away anyone who was getting too close from the outside.
But also I would simply not leave an active shooter in a classroom full of kids so wtf do I know about being a cop
What I’ve been hearing is that one of the big deals coming out of this is that it unmasks a big contingent of this group that usually gets shipped in around the country wherever they try to start shit. That alone should be a big aid for anti fascist organizers.
Posts
it's a party all the time over here
I'm queer and nonbinary (he/they). I guess if I were to split hairs I'd be bi/pan, but queer just feels better to me. I like how ambiguous it is, I feel it matches my general feelings towards sexuality and gender identity.
So hi, nice to have a pride month where I'm actually me.
I regret it.
The good news is even the hair dresser was like "holy shit all this from. 7 months? " so it will rise from the ashes!
In the meantime how do you feel about wigs? I know some folks who swear by them.
I have a couple my head doesnt agree with generic wigs though. Might have to get a custom
I'm revelling in the freedom it's given me, and I can feel like I have long hair without the hassles.
I'm happy to chat about it if anybody has questions.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Sometime last month, I finally admitted to myself that I actually am a woman, and not just some weird guy who has desperately wished to be one for a lifetime. Since then I've come out to close family members I trust (which was nerve-wracking, even though it has turned out well), and I have an appointment to see a therapist soon and figure out how to proceed from here.
Even making these first few steps has had an amazing effect on my life. It's like I'm suddenly able to care about my life, my health, my environment, and my future, when for years (going on decades) none of it mattered to me. I'm almost able to see myself as a real person.
Anyway, I don't really have a presence on these forums, but I've been reading through this thread and its previous iterations over the past few weeks, and seeing some of the journeys various people here have taken has been inspiring. Happy Pride month, y'all.
Speaking of Pride and headwrapping... Managed to pull this one off today and I'm super duper excited about it.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
https://www.psypost.org/2022/06/study-finds-early-exposure-to-testosterone-predicts-gender-role-behaviors-in-boys-63250
could someone who is more... scientifically literate... than I am, let me know if they think this study/paper is credible?
Published in a decent (impact factor 4.9) journal. Kinda low n# for men with IHH (65) but it seems to be relatively rare so getting more participants would likely be difficult. Demographics also skew heavily towards white (80+% of participants) which may actually be a good thing, as they're likely all being raised with more similar ideas of what masculine traits are.
Paper is a little light on data and it's all based on self reporting surveys, but the survey seems well established and cited, it maybe a little dated (first developed in the '77, but I guess that's kinda a good thing since most participants would have been raised in the 70's and 80's, so ideas around masculinity during the time the survey was developed and when the people were raised match up).
All in all seems like a solid, if limited, study that builds off of animal work showing testosterone treatment early in development alters brain gene expression and function to take on typically masculine behaviors.
Edit: TL;DR I'm a post-doctoral researcher, so I have a lot of experience reading and analyzing papers, and this one seems solid if limited by the way you have to do human studies, especially human behavior studies.
This is literally all you need to discredit the entite paper.
-Self assessments are bunk and fail every test of rigor.
-The variability of these group sizes is some clownshoes shit to a degree where if they weren't clearly so embarassingly incompetent that they just took every response they got without trying to set up proper controls, I would accuse them of p-hacking.
Edit: my bona fides are that I have a PhD in genetics.
Decent impact factor psych journals publish provably false or unreproducible shit all the time, because it is comically easy to prove any point when you use qualitative data (self assessments) for quantitative questions (does a specific developmental environment meaningfully affect gender presentation).
I'm not even going get into their point about trying to compare human gender to other mammals and what a fucking ridiculous proposition that is to use as a starting point.
The bolded is an issue, but like, unless a lot of people get really cool with a lot of unethical shit very fast, it's just kinda how these things go. Also thanks for another perspective! To be fair I'm in immunology and am only really dipping my toe into behavior stuff now, so you're probably a much better resource for this particular topic
Worth noting that self-assessments are used for a lot of psych research in useful ways. This way seems to be pretty bad admittedly, but a lot of the research into therapy stuff requires self assessment on some level. It is generally frowned on to do more direct brain experimentation in the post WW2 era for very good reasons.
That said this one seems super bad for other reasons. Some of it you have pointed out. With self-assessments it is generally accepted the weak point in your data for figuring this stuff out absolutely is participant responses. You try to make it the best you can get. As a rule that means you don't have them remember information from decades ago. The information is also very unreliable as they are memories the participants have likely recalled a lot over the years at different times which makes them much less reliable than other memories.
It honestly seems like a super dumb way to do this study which is slightly telling ultimately. You are looking for quantitative data so use quantitative data. You can test the hormone levels of children now and have much more reliable data on their gender conforming behaviors. I am always very suspicious of research that seems determined to get their information the worst way. All the papers I have come across that do that are bad.
I am the least qualified with maybe most exposure as I am working on my dissertation for a Counselor Education and Supervision PhD specifically on trans and non-binary stuff.
I tend to be pretty quiet about it, but this past year I've managed to hash out what my whole deal is with a bit more definition, and I’ve landed solidly in camp grey-pansexual. So that’s nice.
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist
Anxious and terrified and excited, but hopefully this all works out.
This is the part I don't like
Also the clinic sent me a post-op advice, and it tickled me that the biggest font warning was
"DO NOT FORCEFULLY PULL YOU HAIR BACK WHILE WASHING OR
COMBING"
Because you know, you could suddenly find yourself without a scalp.
my god
Always has been.
Note to self stick to wigs during FFS recovery period
I've bought myself an ample supply of 80s style-inspired headbands
I honestly hadnt ever heard from this lady even though she was assigned to me 4 weeks ago( I left several voicemails) and now Im kinda wondering if she was a secret terf or something. Im not gonna ask but I feel like I dodged a bullet. Now I have to wait for them to find a doctor in my network. Yay
My previous therapist had to take a medical leave. I miss him. Also I think Im therapist cursed
Like, it seemed like they had everything under control...but still, knowing what we know about cops...
WoW
Dear Satan.....
Steam
how unfair for you, man.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
I hope he gets a papercut between his fingers before having to handle so many sliced lemons.
but not 4 of them or then he will go to kung-fu universe
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
We should definitely be talking about this because fuck those assholes I'm glad they got arrested.
ACAB but as far as the folks facing outward, charitably I'd say if I was bringing in a bunch of officers to arrest a bunch of folks at a big event, I'd bring some officers designated to be perimeter/crowd control whose job was just to turn away anyone who was getting too close from the outside.
But also I would simply not leave an active shooter in a classroom full of kids so wtf do I know about being a cop
Man I can't wait to be able to wake up in the morning without dried clumps of blood in my hair
Looks like somebody doesnt have a pet wolverine
What I’ve been hearing is that one of the big deals coming out of this is that it unmasks a big contingent of this group that usually gets shipped in around the country wherever they try to start shit. That alone should be a big aid for anti fascist organizers.