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I disagree that ME was better in any appreciable way just because FemShep was a choice. ME was good because the writing was so good. The VO performances of either choice were also terrific. What made ME2 and subsequently ME3 worse was the terrible writing. VO performances were still excellent. Having the choice was a bonus but having it did not make the rest of it any better.
But, as an example, BioWare's DAO was fairly miserable, and without any characterisation invested into The Warden, picking a female avatar made her just as much as a bobble-headed idiot as any male choice would be. My experience was also not enhanced for the choice.
Having the choice where possible is a good first step. But merely having the choice does not inhenerently improve the result.
When I counted all the Playstation games I had with black protagonists, the only ones I had were GTA:SA and FFVIII (Kiros barely counting).
There is a difference between shaping a person of color for a specific narrative (Mafia 3) or allowing the option for that character to be created.
Extra credits or Feminist Frequency (I'll find the video later) brought this up in that, with shaped narratives you can address what those character's traits mean to society and the pressure society puts on them.
Carl Johnson had to face judgement as a child and a sibling for not being there for his family in the past and making things right for his surviving family. But aside from Catalina's specifically calling out his masculinity (or just being crazy), Carl could have been a female character and the story would have taken the same shape (nightstick up the ass comments might have meant something else)
Star Ocean 2, Claude is the son of a captain who won a famous battle and lives in that shadow. That inferiority complex drives several of his actions and is essential to the plot. But....not really gendered.
Final Fantasy Tactics advance, that character is an older brother to......okay, that could have worked as a sister.
Ah! The Witcher 3, Geralt is trying to be a specific kind of man, but he's torn because these two women in his life that he cares about are making him into a specific kind of man they like, and the issue for much of the story is him being trying decide which man he wants to be and the woman who wants that man.
Long Live the Queen is all about the Queen being a Queen, and the need for a husband and strong leadership, with all that it entails.
Actually, now that I think about it, not a lot of games really do a good job of utilizing the fact that the character is a man to drive the plot, thematically. You could change their gender, make them trans, and the entire plot would carry on the same. Only one that really, really comes to mind is Red Dead Redemption. The entire plot of that one is built around the player character being a good patriarch, right?
I think the reaction to the female protagonist being better is because they literally have a potential option in the actual *game* that would have been 1000% better and more interesting to play than Cal would have been. She's awesomely designed, great voice actress and most importantly, is a kind of force user no Star Wars media has really fully or properly explored as a main character before.
So that contributes heavily. It's why if there is a sequel a lot of people (including me) hope she is the main protagonist over Cal. She would be fascinating to play.
Would this be as true if you could mod Mickey Mouse into the game?
I think the reaction to the female protagonist being better is because they literally have a potential option in the actual *game* that would have been 1000% better and more interesting to play than Cal would have been. She's awesomely designed, great voice actress and most importantly, is a kind of force user no Star Wars media has really fully or properly explored as a main character before.
So that contributes heavily. It's why if there is a sequel a lot of people (including me) hope she is the main protagonist over Cal. She would be fascinating to play.
Would this be as true if you could mod Mickey Mouse into the game?
Okay, so you are sealioning.
Noted.
Whatever the fuck that means, you refuse to answer the basic question. When you say the potential option in the game is 1000% better, are you referring to something in the game that would possibly take on a potentially new interpretation from a female PC? Or is it simply that you believe that a female PC would make the whole game 1000% better simply by being a female PC?
Because I think some of the desire for a female option is at least partially predicated on there also being different choices simply based on the option. When what I am asking is if this Cal is so lame, why would they be any better, as is, simply by altering the outward appearance of the character.
To which everybody has immediately leapt to a conclusion about my motives. Which is actually that I prefer better writing over superficial choices.
I think the reaction to the female protagonist being better is because they literally have a potential option in the actual *game* that would have been 1000% better and more interesting to play than Cal would have been. She's awesomely designed, great voice actress and most importantly, is a kind of force user no Star Wars media has really fully or properly explored as a main character before.
So that contributes heavily. It's why if there is a sequel a lot of people (including me) hope she is the main protagonist over Cal. She would be fascinating to play.
Would this be as true if you could mod Mickey Mouse into the game?
Okay, so you are sealioning.
Noted.
Whatever the fuck that means, you refuse to answer the basic question. When you say the potential option in the game is 1000% better, are you referring to something in the game that would possibly take on a potentially new interpretation from a female PC? Or is it simply that you believe that a female PC would make the whole game 1000% better simply by being a female PC?
Because I think some of the desire for a female option is at least partially predicated on there also being different choices simply based on the option. When what I am asking is if this Cal is so lame, why would they be any better, as is, simply by altering the outward appearance of the character.
To which everybody has immediately leapt to a conclusion about my motives. Which is actually that I prefer better writing over superficial choices.
To sealion is to engage in bad faith discussion under the veneer of "just asking questions" and using decorum as a weapon with zero intention to actually change position regardless of what others say by ignoring any responses other than cherry-picking individual pieces to "just ask questions" about. aka exactly what you have been doing. It is a toxic tactic that is designed to do nothing but waste time and sap energy.
I think the reaction to the female protagonist being better is because they literally have a potential option in the actual *game* that would have been 1000% better and more interesting to play than Cal would have been. She's awesomely designed, great voice actress and most importantly, is a kind of force user no Star Wars media has really fully or properly explored as a main character before.
So that contributes heavily. It's why if there is a sequel a lot of people (including me) hope she is the main protagonist over Cal. She would be fascinating to play.
Would this be as true if you could mod Mickey Mouse into the game?
Okay, so you are sealioning.
Noted.
Whatever the fuck that means, you refuse to answer the basic question. When you say the potential option in the game is 1000% better, are you referring to something in the game that would possibly take on a potentially new interpretation from a female PC? Or is it simply that you believe that a female PC would make the whole game 1000% better simply by being a female PC?
Because I think some of the desire for a female option is at least partially predicated on there also being different choices simply based on the option. When what I am asking is if this Cal is so lame, why would they be any better, as is, simply by altering the outward appearance of the character.
To which everybody has immediately leapt to a conclusion about my motives. Which is actually that I prefer better writing over superficial choices.
I can't speak for everybody else. What I'm saying is that it's fine if Cal is boring. Leave the story and the setting and everything else alone. If you make Cal a lady then things are better outside of the game because representation matters and we've already had lots of Star Wars games where you play a boring guy. Maybe it's time to take a step and make people play a boring lady.
And if the character being human, and a male, and white don't matter then why were those traits chosen? Why isn't Cal female? Why isn't Cal any skin tone but white? Why is it okay for the wise teacher with a mysterious past NPC to be a black woman but not the main character? Why is it okay for Cal's adoptive father figure NPC to be an alien but not the main character?
Why? Because eventually I'd like to have characters that aren't boring! Characters whose identity may factor into the plot! Characters who my daughters can identify with as an expectation instead of an unexpected surprise!
Changing the status quo, even a little bit, is the start of how we get there.
I think the reaction to the female protagonist being better is because they literally have a potential option in the actual *game* that would have been 1000% better and more interesting to play than Cal would have been. She's awesomely designed, great voice actress and most importantly, is a kind of force user no Star Wars media has really fully or properly explored as a main character before.
So that contributes heavily. It's why if there is a sequel a lot of people (including me) hope she is the main protagonist over Cal. She would be fascinating to play.
Would this be as true if you could mod Mickey Mouse into the game?
Okay, so you are sealioning.
Noted.
Whatever the fuck that means, you refuse to answer the basic question. When you say the potential option in the game is 1000% better, are you referring to something in the game that would possibly take on a potentially new interpretation from a female PC? Or is it simply that you believe that a female PC would make the whole game 1000% better simply by being a female PC?
Because I think some of the desire for a female option is at least partially predicated on there also being different choices simply based on the option. When what I am asking is if this Cal is so lame, why would they be any better, as is, simply by altering the outward appearance of the character.
To which everybody has immediately leapt to a conclusion about my motives. Which is actually that I prefer better writing over superficial choices.
I can't speak for everybody else. What I'm saying is that it's fine if Cal is boring. Leave the story and the setting and everything else alone. If you make Cal a lady then things are better outside of the game because representation matters and we've already had lots of Star Wars games where you play a boring guy. Maybe it's time to take a step and make people play a boring lady.
Why? Because eventually I'd like to have characters that aren't boring! Characters whose identity may factor into the plot! Characters who my daughters can identify with as an expectation instead of an unexpected surprise!
Changing the status quo, even a little bit, is the start of how we get there.
I think the fact I gave you reasons, specifically from the game and you utterly ignored them pretty much says everything it needs to.
No you haven't. I asked for clarification on the only post you made. You know '1000%better'. I do not understand what context you are assuming with that assessment.
Kalnaur says "If Cal were female, the dynamic of the characters would be less one of fellow trainers and more one of sisters. Found sisters in a found family, but still. The "older" one fallen to darkness, the "younger" one on the side of light, the thematic scenes would almost write themselves."
But then also says "But I still would have preferred Cal be female because the story possibilities would have been more varied, and there isn't exactly a default "safe" story for female characters thus far. At worst, the character would have been more representation slotted into a boring male character standard story. At best, there's things they could have done to make the story more varied than usual. While with male characters, it's almost assured that the game is going to default to one of like, a handful of dude stories."
Both of these assume that story development would have been different. If they couldn't make the only option available worth a shit, then why assume that changing the option would inherently make it better?
Forcing them to make Cal a male as a reaction to Rey being female is indeed shitty to hear. But I certainly do not assume that a female PC would have been written any better. All other assumptions about that read more like projecting expectations based on personal desires.
And so, I asked why Cal being female would have made it any better.
I do not know a single thing about the narrative to assume such a statement would be true.
I think the reaction to the female protagonist being better is because they literally have a potential option in the actual *game* that would have been 1000% better and more interesting to play than Cal would have been. She's awesomely designed, great voice actress and most importantly, is a kind of force user no Star Wars media has really fully or properly explored as a main character before.
So that contributes heavily. It's why if there is a sequel a lot of people (including me) hope she is the main protagonist over Cal. She would be fascinating to play.
Would this be as true if you could mod Mickey Mouse into the game?
Okay, so you are sealioning.
Noted.
Whatever the fuck that means, you refuse to answer the basic question. When you say the potential option in the game is 1000% better, are you referring to something in the game that would possibly take on a potentially new interpretation from a female PC? Or is it simply that you believe that a female PC would make the whole game 1000% better simply by being a female PC?
Because I think some of the desire for a female option is at least partially predicated on there also being different choices simply based on the option. When what I am asking is if this Cal is so lame, why would they be any better, as is, simply by altering the outward appearance of the character.
To which everybody has immediately leapt to a conclusion about my motives. Which is actually that I prefer better writing over superficial choices.
Everyone likes better writing. I am not here to advocate for worse writing. I am not sure how writing is relevant to the discussion at hand, which is, or was, that Cal could just as easily have been a woman, or a gender, or a while host of other options. That Cal is not, was a choice.
I do not believe that was the best choice.
And while other choices are superficial to you, they may not be superficial to other users.
So you don’t give a crap if Cal is male or female or other? Good for you. So let’s get out of the way, and give people the option of that female/agender/trans/whatever head bobble.
And if that’s too much to ask in a multimillion dollar triple-A , then why not have Cal be female? What difference would it make? Except that people for whom representation is less common would feel a bit more seen, and those of us who have been plenty seen already could be happy about that.
I never wanted to talk about better writing, but I did want to say that Cal is just another protagonist in the same mould we’ve had a thousand times before, so hey, if you’re not going to change it up a lot, why not at least change it up a little. Or provide a choice.
They decided that a little was too much, and that’s a shame to me.
All the main characters in Fallen Order were mocapped by their VAs, right?
Generic White Guy wasn't just the look they came up with for Cal, the actor they hired to play Cal really was a Generic White Guy (well, Generic Ginger Guy, but still.) And I think he did the mocap for most of his combat animations too.
While it isn't the explanation we probably want, "We don't have the budget to also moccap a female version of the protagonist to the same degree as the male one" is a valid explanation for no gender choice, though I can agree that they should have probably gone with something other than GWG/GGG for Cal.
And so, I asked why Cal being female would have made it any better.
This has been answered many times. You're not reading it on purpose.
'Because' is the interpretation. I disagree because I do not assume that a pixel swap would redeem a poor character. Representation for its own sake and the a character that is nothing more than 'because protagonist' doesn't seem like any kind of progress.
And so, I asked why Cal being female would have made it any better.
This has been answered many times. You're not reading it on purpose.
'Because' is the interpretation. I disagree because I do not assume that a pixel swap would redeem a poor character. Representation for its own sake and the a character that is nothing more than 'because protagonist' doesn't seem like any kind of progress.
You can say and believe that last part. But there are multiple people saying that that is still important and has a value to society on its own.
This whole conversation reminds me of the guy trying to mod the mess that was Aliens Colonial Marines into a playable game.
I think I'll give that mod a spin.
Was that the aliens game that just needed a "1" to fix the bad AI?
Sort of. It wasn't a "1" but it was a dumb bug.
There was an object called "AttachPawnToTether" which is what controlled the AI. But all of the programming called "AttachXenoToTether", so it was all calling an object that didn't exist.
The modder just did a quick remap at the start of all the logic to remap the "AttachPawnToTether" object to "AttachXenoToTether" and fixed the AI.
nonono. It's even dumber.
It wasn't that they used the wrong noun in the string. it's that they misspelled "tether"
What should have been "Attachpawntotether" was shipped as "Attachpawntoteather"
That's dumb, everyone knows you "attachpawntorook4"
And so, I asked why Cal being female would have made it any better.
This has been answered many times. You're not reading it on purpose.
'Because' is the interpretation. I disagree because I do not assume that a pixel swap would redeem a poor character. Representation for its own sake and the a character that is nothing more than 'because protagonist' doesn't seem like any kind of progress.
You can say and believe that last part. But there are multiple people saying that that is still important and has a value to society on its own.
And it does not make me the enemy for thinking so. Wanting better written storys/character, male or female, and being unconcerned if it comes without a choice does not make me the enemy.
And so, I asked why Cal being female would have made it any better.
This has been answered many times. You're not reading it on purpose.
'Because' is the interpretation. I disagree because I do not assume that a pixel swap would redeem a poor character. Representation for its own sake and the a character that is nothing more than 'because protagonist' doesn't seem like any kind of progress.
I gave you real and personal reasons why representation matters to me in a greater context than the self-contained story. To boil them down to simply "because" makes you an asshole, and I won't engage with that. Congratulations. You win. I'm done here.
And so, I asked why Cal being female would have made it any better.
This has been answered many times. You're not reading it on purpose.
'Because' is the interpretation. I disagree because I do not assume that a pixel swap would redeem a poor character. Representation for its own sake and the a character that is nothing more than 'because protagonist' doesn't seem like any kind of progress.
You can say and believe that last part. But there are multiple people saying that that is still important and has a value to society on its own.
And it does not make me the enemy for thinking so. Wanting better written storys/character, male or female, and being unconcerned if it comes without a choice does not make me the enemy.
No, but it does mean that you should listen to people that say it does and hold a different opinion. Maybe also consider the other kind of people that also push against more representation, good writing and characterization or not. Like, I’m not saying that you should change your opinion or that it isn’t well reasoned and valid. But one always has to consider who also holds a stance that is functionally identical and would champion the outcome, if not the steps that reasoned their way there.
For as much as you personally are unconcerned with the representation options that are in media, for others it is very important. It costs you nothing to listen and accept that your stance of unconcern may in fact not be as weighty as a stance that calls for representations that are not straight, white, male because they need to see themselves and be seen by society in a hero’s story.
I like having choices for the player's avatar in games....different genders, different races, etc. I also like playing the bad guys. Not enough games let you do that. Anyways, I understand some of the reasons why a single player game might not have a ton of options. It's more work which means more time and money. Depending the resources at their disposal maybe it's not an option. Maybe the story is very specific to a particular character but given a choice I will almost always default to female/non-human characters. If I can customize them then so much the better. That's MY pretty princess going around kicking some ass. It adds to my enjoyment.
Cal isn't quite Generic White Guy Protag, because he's got red hair, not brown; and he's baby-faced, rather than in-need-of-a-shave; and he's generally upbeat, rather than smoldering with generic rage. That made me (and a couple of my red-headed friends) happy (who also liked Control's protagonist, for similar reasons).
So, yeah, representation is important. There are already lots of, e.g., Star Wars folks who look kinda like me, and I want people who aren't already invested in, e.g., Star Wars to be able to see themselves there, too.
KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
edited August 2021
So uh... Aliens Fireteam comes out tomorrow. It's not getting great reviews, but it's only $40 rather than $60 so I figured I'd bite. Hoping it at least gives me good feelings of fighting of hordes of Aliens with a smart gun.
Specifically regarding Star Wars, I would buy the representation argument more if Disney hadn't already had multiple new shows and stories with specifically non-white, and non-male leads. It doesn't track.
Dr. Ahpra,
Din and his crew,
Iden Verso,
The cast of Squadrons,
There's nothing wrong with Cal as he's presented in the game, and there's opportunity for more in the future. Wishing he was a different character than what he is is a choice, but I don't think Disney is in any danger of not pushing that forward.
Specifically regarding Star Wars, I would buy the representation argument more if Disney hadn't already had multiple new shows and stories with specifically non-white, and non-male leads. It doesn't track.
Dr. Ahpra,
Din and his crew,
Iden Verso,
The cast of Squadrons,
There's nothing wrong with Cal as he's presented in the game, and there's opportunity for more in the future. Wishing he was a different character than what he is is a choice, but I don't think Disney is in any danger of not pushing that forward.
I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here.
I mean, to me, Cal is fine. He's just got my face (relatively speaking), and I am sick of my face. And the plot was written generically enough to allow for him to have a different face. So...why not do that?
So uh... Aliens Fireteam comes out tomorrow. It's not getting great reviews, but it's only $40 rather than $60 so I figured I'd bite. Hoping it at least gives me good feelings of fighting of hordes of Aliens with a smart gun.
My standards are low for Aliens games.
I just did the same thing. The reviews seem to be a bit mixed but at least none of them are talking about game breaking bugs. One didn't like as it didn't feel like Aliens to them, another didn't like the RPG-lite system. I generally like ArsTechnica reviews and they enjoyed it a lot.
As long as it's stable and I can fight Aliens with my friends, I'll consider it a worthy purchase.
Specifically regarding Star Wars, I would buy the representation argument more if Disney hadn't already had multiple new shows and stories with specifically non-white, and non-male leads. It doesn't track.
Dr. Ahpra,
Din and his crew,
Iden Verso,
The cast of Squadrons,
There's nothing wrong with Cal as he's presented in the game, and there's opportunity for more in the future. Wishing he was a different character than what he is is a choice, but I don't think Disney is in any danger of not pushing that forward.
I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here.
I mean, to me, Cal is fine. He's just got my face (relatively speaking), and I am sick of my face. And the plot was written generically enough to allow for him to have a different face. So...why not do that?
I'd be perfectly happy with KOTOR or Jedi Academy choose-your-character. But I also see nothing wrong with Cal, being Cal, and keeping things open for other protagonists down the line.
+1
KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
So uh... Aliens Fireteam comes out tomorrow. It's not getting great reviews, but it's only $40 rather than $60 so I figured I'd bite. Hoping it at least gives me good feelings of fighting of hordes of Aliens with a smart gun.
My standards are low for Aliens games.
I just did the same thing. The reviews seem to be a bit mixed but at least none of them are talking about game breaking bugs. One didn't like as it didn't feel like Aliens to them, another didn't like the RPG-lite system. I generally like ArsTechnica reviews and they enjoyed it a lot.
As long as it's stable and I can fight Aliens with my friends, I'll consider it a worthy purchase.
Same, I'm kinda hoping the horde mode is decent. I think I would rather play horde a bunch after completing the missions unless I wanted to do them on hard mode.
Remember Jedi Academy? Twi'leks and you could be a vampire, too. I'm pretty sure low level Force Drain would paralyse the target, so you could play Blood Rayne at the same time.
You have to hard code it to the launch shortcut, but you can put dismemberment back in since its the same engine as Outcast.
I've been playing Horizon Zero Dawn lately in my too-limited gaming time. Thank you to everyone in the thread who talked about it for two things in particular - first, thanks for convincing me to play it. It was a "free" game on my Persona 5 box, but I doubt I would have tried it out if it wasn't for all the hype in this thread. Secondly, thanks to everyone who said over and over again to not play it as an action game, but really get into the tutorials and learn how the game wants to be played. Can't imagine trying to dodge-roll my way out of fights with all but the easiest of opponents. It's quite rewarding to get into the groove of traps and tripwires and only dodge-rolling when things screw up.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
Xbox - PearlBlueS0ul, Steam
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Posts
I'm all about Twi'leks
I disagree. I think it does.
There is a difference between shaping a person of color for a specific narrative (Mafia 3) or allowing the option for that character to be created.
Extra credits or Feminist Frequency (I'll find the video later) brought this up in that, with shaped narratives you can address what those character's traits mean to society and the pressure society puts on them.
Carl Johnson had to face judgement as a child and a sibling for not being there for his family in the past and making things right for his surviving family. But aside from Catalina's specifically calling out his masculinity (or just being crazy), Carl could have been a female character and the story would have taken the same shape (nightstick up the ass comments might have meant something else)
Star Ocean 2, Claude is the son of a captain who won a famous battle and lives in that shadow. That inferiority complex drives several of his actions and is essential to the plot. But....not really gendered.
Final Fantasy Tactics advance, that character is an older brother to......okay, that could have worked as a sister.
Ah! The Witcher 3, Geralt is trying to be a specific kind of man, but he's torn because these two women in his life that he cares about are making him into a specific kind of man they like, and the issue for much of the story is him being trying decide which man he wants to be and the woman who wants that man.
Long Live the Queen is all about the Queen being a Queen, and the need for a husband and strong leadership, with all that it entails.
Actually, now that I think about it, not a lot of games really do a good job of utilizing the fact that the character is a man to drive the plot, thematically. You could change their gender, make them trans, and the entire plot would carry on the same. Only one that really, really comes to mind is Red Dead Redemption. The entire plot of that one is built around the player character being a good patriarch, right?
Fuck, where was I going with this?
Would this be as true if you could mod Mickey Mouse into the game?
Do not engage the Watermelons.
Whatever the fuck that means, you refuse to answer the basic question. When you say the potential option in the game is 1000% better, are you referring to something in the game that would possibly take on a potentially new interpretation from a female PC? Or is it simply that you believe that a female PC would make the whole game 1000% better simply by being a female PC?
Because I think some of the desire for a female option is at least partially predicated on there also being different choices simply based on the option. When what I am asking is if this Cal is so lame, why would they be any better, as is, simply by altering the outward appearance of the character.
To which everybody has immediately leapt to a conclusion about my motives. Which is actually that I prefer better writing over superficial choices.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
To sealion is to engage in bad faith discussion under the veneer of "just asking questions" and using decorum as a weapon with zero intention to actually change position regardless of what others say by ignoring any responses other than cherry-picking individual pieces to "just ask questions" about. aka exactly what you have been doing. It is a toxic tactic that is designed to do nothing but waste time and sap energy.
https://wondermark.com/1k62/
I can't speak for everybody else. What I'm saying is that it's fine if Cal is boring. Leave the story and the setting and everything else alone. If you make Cal a lady then things are better outside of the game because representation matters and we've already had lots of Star Wars games where you play a boring guy. Maybe it's time to take a step and make people play a boring lady.
And if the character being human, and a male, and white don't matter then why were those traits chosen? Why isn't Cal female? Why isn't Cal any skin tone but white? Why is it okay for the wise teacher with a mysterious past NPC to be a black woman but not the main character? Why is it okay for Cal's adoptive father figure NPC to be an alien but not the main character?
Why? Because eventually I'd like to have characters that aren't boring! Characters whose identity may factor into the plot! Characters who my daughters can identify with as an expectation instead of an unexpected surprise!
Changing the status quo, even a little bit, is the start of how we get there.
Yes. Thank you.
Representation matters. Full stop.
No you haven't. I asked for clarification on the only post you made. You know '1000%better'. I do not understand what context you are assuming with that assessment.
Kalnaur says "If Cal were female, the dynamic of the characters would be less one of fellow trainers and more one of sisters. Found sisters in a found family, but still. The "older" one fallen to darkness, the "younger" one on the side of light, the thematic scenes would almost write themselves."
But then also says "But I still would have preferred Cal be female because the story possibilities would have been more varied, and there isn't exactly a default "safe" story for female characters thus far. At worst, the character would have been more representation slotted into a boring male character standard story. At best, there's things they could have done to make the story more varied than usual. While with male characters, it's almost assured that the game is going to default to one of like, a handful of dude stories."
Both of these assume that story development would have been different. If they couldn't make the only option available worth a shit, then why assume that changing the option would inherently make it better?
Forcing them to make Cal a male as a reaction to Rey being female is indeed shitty to hear. But I certainly do not assume that a female PC would have been written any better. All other assumptions about that read more like projecting expectations based on personal desires.
And so, I asked why Cal being female would have made it any better.
I do not know a single thing about the narrative to assume such a statement would be true.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
This has been answered many times. You're not reading it on purpose.
Everyone likes better writing. I am not here to advocate for worse writing. I am not sure how writing is relevant to the discussion at hand, which is, or was, that Cal could just as easily have been a woman, or a gender, or a while host of other options. That Cal is not, was a choice.
I do not believe that was the best choice.
And while other choices are superficial to you, they may not be superficial to other users.
So you don’t give a crap if Cal is male or female or other? Good for you. So let’s get out of the way, and give people the option of that female/agender/trans/whatever head bobble.
And if that’s too much to ask in a multimillion dollar triple-A , then why not have Cal be female? What difference would it make? Except that people for whom representation is less common would feel a bit more seen, and those of us who have been plenty seen already could be happy about that.
I never wanted to talk about better writing, but I did want to say that Cal is just another protagonist in the same mould we’ve had a thousand times before, so hey, if you’re not going to change it up a lot, why not at least change it up a little. Or provide a choice.
They decided that a little was too much, and that’s a shame to me.
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Generic White Guy wasn't just the look they came up with for Cal, the actor they hired to play Cal really was a Generic White Guy (well, Generic Ginger Guy, but still.) And I think he did the mocap for most of his combat animations too.
While it isn't the explanation we probably want, "We don't have the budget to also moccap a female version of the protagonist to the same degree as the male one" is a valid explanation for no gender choice, though I can agree that they should have probably gone with something other than GWG/GGG for Cal.
'Because' is the interpretation. I disagree because I do not assume that a pixel swap would redeem a poor character. Representation for its own sake and the a character that is nothing more than 'because protagonist' doesn't seem like any kind of progress.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
You assume far too much about me or my motives. You all do.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
You can say and believe that last part. But there are multiple people saying that that is still important and has a value to society on its own.
Checkmate.
And it does not make me the enemy for thinking so. Wanting better written storys/character, male or female, and being unconcerned if it comes without a choice does not make me the enemy.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
I gave you real and personal reasons why representation matters to me in a greater context than the self-contained story. To boil them down to simply "because" makes you an asshole, and I won't engage with that. Congratulations. You win. I'm done here.
No, but it does mean that you should listen to people that say it does and hold a different opinion. Maybe also consider the other kind of people that also push against more representation, good writing and characterization or not. Like, I’m not saying that you should change your opinion or that it isn’t well reasoned and valid. But one always has to consider who also holds a stance that is functionally identical and would champion the outcome, if not the steps that reasoned their way there.
For as much as you personally are unconcerned with the representation options that are in media, for others it is very important. It costs you nothing to listen and accept that your stance of unconcern may in fact not be as weighty as a stance that calls for representations that are not straight, white, male because they need to see themselves and be seen by society in a hero’s story.
So, yeah, representation is important. There are already lots of, e.g., Star Wars folks who look kinda like me, and I want people who aren't already invested in, e.g., Star Wars to be able to see themselves there, too.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
My standards are low for Aliens games.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
"Representation makes an individual game better"
Seems to be people talking in circles around those two ideas.
Steam ID: Good Life
Dr. Ahpra,
Din and his crew,
Iden Verso,
The cast of Squadrons,
There's nothing wrong with Cal as he's presented in the game, and there's opportunity for more in the future. Wishing he was a different character than what he is is a choice, but I don't think Disney is in any danger of not pushing that forward.
I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here.
I mean, to me, Cal is fine. He's just got my face (relatively speaking), and I am sick of my face. And the plot was written generically enough to allow for him to have a different face. So...why not do that?
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
Decisions decisions
I just would have liked it more if Cal were a lady.
Because I already spent too much time being a guy.
I just did the same thing. The reviews seem to be a bit mixed but at least none of them are talking about game breaking bugs. One didn't like as it didn't feel like Aliens to them, another didn't like the RPG-lite system. I generally like ArsTechnica reviews and they enjoyed it a lot.
As long as it's stable and I can fight Aliens with my friends, I'll consider it a worthy purchase.
I'd be perfectly happy with KOTOR or Jedi Academy choose-your-character. But I also see nothing wrong with Cal, being Cal, and keeping things open for other protagonists down the line.
Same, I'm kinda hoping the horde mode is decent. I think I would rather play horde a bunch after completing the missions unless I wanted to do them on hard mode.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
You have to hard code it to the launch shortcut, but you can put dismemberment back in since its the same engine as Outcast.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.