The Locked Tomb Series (open spoilers for Gideon and Harrow! Nona the Ninth is out!)

RoyceSraphim

If I lived long enough

And heard someone yell out, "one time"

I might start singing

https://youtu.be/oKOtzIo-uYw

Tofystedeth

3cl1ps3 wrote: »

I don't know why I thought this was next month. I still need to reread Gideon and Harrow, RIP.

Fortunately death won't necessarily stop you in this universe.

initiatefailure

I reread Gideon in record time. It just moves so fast.

Hey my Nona has black page edges! That’s cool. But now I know the other books had that too and they’ll never match!

nightmarenny

Managed to pick up the last copy from a local Barnes & Noble because the employee who reserved it was unhappy with the very minor damage to the binding.

Score.

knitdan

I have to wait until next week and I'm so jealous of you all

webguy20

With Nona out is it time to open up spoilers for Harrow?

nightmarenny

Seems only proper.

RoyceSraphim

Got my copy, the foreword is interesting

3cl1ps3

I read the first couple dozen pages of Nona and realized how much of Harrow I forgot and now I'm torn between soldiering on or stopping to reread Harrow.

Truly Sophie's Choice.

initiatefailure

I’m enjoying the reread. I had definitely forgotten a lot and in gideon there was a lot of things you don’t recognize as reveals until you go back. So far through the first 100 pages of harrow there hasn’t been as much of that and its actually more straightforward than I remembered in sequence. Though I’m just getting to the start of where things take off so maybe I’ll have a different take tomorrow

Tamin

Went to three places yesterday, and the last finally had one (1) copy in stock


full book spoilers


Nona

some scattered thoughts
- flashbacks
- - the timeline kept bugging me. I'm not sure if I consciously had an "aha!" moment, but I think I came close a few times.
- - I do not understand Tamsyn's goal in abbreviating the names here. I mean, it's relatively easy to flip back to the Dramatis Personae from Harrow and just fill it in. So it feels a bit like pointless obfuscation?
- - - one possible reason would be that their original names are not what they ended up with. There's a hint towards this, with Ulysses and Titania being, er, initially U- and T- and every other appearance is the full name.
- - - So maybe e.g. M- wasn't "Mercymorn" in situ, but rather John gave her a new name post-resurrection?
- - the chapter:verse references do, of course, map to the Gospel of John. I checked a few early on: the first is from "The Empty Tomb" (NIV). But the specific verses -- e.g., "Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed." (NIV) -- don't seem to add context, texture, or value. So I'm unclear on that. Could be referencing something else, of course.


- Kiriona
- - extremely bothered and bummed out by this entire character. Unless I missed something on my Harrow re-read, Gideon Nav's body was picked up by Blood of Eden along with Corona et al. They traipsed through space for a bit, wondering why the body didn't rot. Mercymorn visits, looks at the body (alluded to in Harrow, reinforced by "As Yet Unsent"), and leaves. She does not take the body. So, uh, what gives?
- - there's something of Gideon in there, but not much. "Sex Pal" definitely raised my hopes, but everything else dashed them expertly

- Paul
- - another biblical name. Paul persecuted the (very) early Christians until he had a vision and converted.

- Nona
- - I was reminded of Death: The High Cost of Living at various points in her journey. Something specific in how she's dying, I think.
- - she claims to have dreams that belong to Harrow (or to both Harrow and Gideon), and she's definitely in Harrow's body (the hair thing alone)
- - - I say claims because
- - - a) we aren't actually privy to the dream she describes; every time she falls asleep we see a John flashback; and
- - - b) it's always the same dream

- the dream
- - why continually refer to that moment? A red herring to imply that Nona is one of them?

- Blood of Eden
- - there's a line somewhere in Harrow in the vein of, "when you turn your back on something, you don't get to claim it"; this makes me think BoE are descended from the trillionaires who lied through their teeth about the evacuations.

mmm... more later, maybe.

MegaMan001

I think Harrow Spoilers should be lifted, but holy shit does that need to be reflected in the thread title and OP to not come in here without having read Harrow.

schuss

No spoilers for Nona, but a few pages in and it's like a warm blanket of being fucked with by Muir.

tzeentchling

My pre-order doesn't get shipped until next week and this is immensely frustrating.

schuss

Also the first page dramatis personae being mostly dogs is a god tier troll on anyone who took the series ultra serious.

Antoshka

Finished Nona last night.

One of the interesting things, for me, was that the John chapters were actually quite NZ specific in a lot of their references. NCEA, several specific suburbs, etc.

webguy20

Just finished up Nona and damn. I want to know what happened between books.

Peewi

I finished Nona and I guess I have a bunch of questions.

It's a bit unclear who John is telling his story to. It seems to say that it's Harrow, but there are parts that only seem to make sense if he's talking to Alecto. Or maybe both Harrow and Alecto are there? But also, it's a dream and we all know those are known for making perfect sense.

I guess Alecto is the spirit of the Earth? Or possibly the sun?. Either way they seem unhappy with being put into a human body.

There's a tower in the river??? Did John do this???

I'm not entirely sure what was happening at the end, other than Nona's body falling apart (not 100% sure if she died) and Alecto woke up. I think Alecto bit someone as a result of not understanding how to be a human.

I was kind of hoping for an explanation for how Palamedes's soul went from being in some of his bones to being in Camilla, but oh well.

webguy20

Peewi wrote: »

I finished Nona and I guess I have a bunch of questions.

It's a bit unclear who John is telling his story to. It seems to say that it's Harrow, but there are parts that only seem to make sense if he's talking to Alecto. Or maybe both Harrow and Alecto are there? But also, it's a dream and we all know those are known for making perfect sense.

I guess Alecto is the spirit of the Earth? Or possibly the sun?. Either way they seem unhappy with being put into a human body.

There's a tower in the river??? Did John do this???

I'm not entirely sure what was happening at the end, other than Nona's body falling apart (not 100% sure if she died) and Alecto woke up. I think Alecto bit someone as a result of not understanding how to be a human.

I was kind of hoping for an explanation for how Palamedes's soul went from being in some of his bones to being in Camilla, but oh well.

To at least one of your questions….

Im betting the tower is where the rest of humanity is stored. John has only raised millions, and not the entire 11 billion.

Tamin

Peewi wrote: »

I finished Nona and I guess I have a bunch of questions.

It's a bit unclear who John is telling his story to. It seems to say that it's Harrow, but there are parts that only seem to make sense if he's talking to Alecto. Or maybe both Harrow and Alecto are there? But also, it's a dream and we all know those are known for making perfect sense.

I guess Alecto is the spirit of the Earth? Or possibly the sun?. Either way they seem unhappy with being put into a human body.

There's a tower in the river??? Did John do this???

I'm not entirely sure what was happening at the end, other than Nona's body falling apart (not 100% sure if she died) and Alecto woke up. I think Alecto bit someone as a result of not understanding how to be a human.

I was kind of hoping for an explanation for how Palamedes's soul went from being in some of his bones to being in Camilla, but oh well.

my core read is that
- Harrow's soul went to a version of the Locked Tomb at the end of Harrow
- from this position, she's ... I dunno, hitching a ride? sharing space? she's kinda-sorta there
- this gives her an overview of what mostly actually happened while John was still mostly human.

Now Harrow has this information and may do something with it; but it's not just Tamsyn telling us what happened. I think this is a recurring dream: John alludes to something like it in Harrow, I think.

Alecto is the Earth, I have no doubt.

Nona reached the body of Alecto, and her soul got back in. Harrow's soul is already there, and jumps back into her body. Harrow is bitten by Alecto because the latter doesn't understand how to kiss; and after that I don't really follow. Probably Ianthe is the first one to "offer violence", and Kiriona shouts something, but it's exceptionally unclear to me.

webguy20

Tamin wrote: »

Peewi wrote: »

I finished Nona and I guess I have a bunch of questions.

It's a bit unclear who John is telling his story to. It seems to say that it's Harrow, but there are parts that only seem to make sense if he's talking to Alecto. Or maybe both Harrow and Alecto are there? But also, it's a dream and we all know those are known for making perfect sense.

I guess Alecto is the spirit of the Earth? Or possibly the sun?. Either way they seem unhappy with being put into a human body.

There's a tower in the river??? Did John do this???

I'm not entirely sure what was happening at the end, other than Nona's body falling apart (not 100% sure if she died) and Alecto woke up. I think Alecto bit someone as a result of not understanding how to be a human.

I was kind of hoping for an explanation for how Palamedes's soul went from being in some of his bones to being in Camilla, but oh well.

my core read is that
- Harrow's soul went to a version of the Locked Tomb at the end of Harrow
- from this position, she's ... I dunno, hitching a ride? sharing space? she's kinda-sorta there
- this gives her an overview of what mostly actually happened while John was still mostly human.

Now Harrow has this information and may do something with it; but it's not just Tamsyn telling us what happened. I think this is a recurring dream: John alludes to something like it in Harrow, I think.

Alecto is the Earth, I have no doubt.

Nona reached the body of Alecto, and her soul got back in. Harrow's soul is already there, and jumps back into the her body. Harrow is bitten by Alecto because the latter doesn't understand how to kiss; and after that I don't really follow. Probably Ianthe is the first one to "offer violence", and Kiriona shouts something, but it's exceptionally unclear to me.

On the last bit

Alecto offers herself up as Harrow's Guardian because she recognizes through the blood on her lips that Harrow is the tomb keeper and Alecto made a vow to Anastasia, the first tomb keeper. Kirona says in response, and I quote, "Get in line, thou big slut"

Tamin

webguy20 wrote: »

Tamin wrote: »

Peewi wrote: »

I finished Nona and I guess I have a bunch of questions.

It's a bit unclear who John is telling his story to. It seems to say that it's Harrow, but there are parts that only seem to make sense if he's talking to Alecto. Or maybe both Harrow and Alecto are there? But also, it's a dream and we all know those are known for making perfect sense.

I guess Alecto is the spirit of the Earth? Or possibly the sun?. Either way they seem unhappy with being put into a human body.

There's a tower in the river??? Did John do this???

I'm not entirely sure what was happening at the end, other than Nona's body falling apart (not 100% sure if she died) and Alecto woke up. I think Alecto bit someone as a result of not understanding how to be a human.

I was kind of hoping for an explanation for how Palamedes's soul went from being in some of his bones to being in Camilla, but oh well.

my core read is that
- Harrow's soul went to a version of the Locked Tomb at the end of Harrow
- from this position, she's ... I dunno, hitching a ride? sharing space? she's kinda-sorta there
- this gives her an overview of what mostly actually happened while John was still mostly human.

Now Harrow has this information and may do something with it; but it's not just Tamsyn telling us what happened. I think this is a recurring dream: John alludes to something like it in Harrow, I think.

Alecto is the Earth, I have no doubt.

Nona reached the body of Alecto, and her soul got back in. Harrow's soul is already there, and jumps back into the her body. Harrow is bitten by Alecto because the latter doesn't understand how to kiss; and after that I don't really follow. Probably Ianthe is the first one to "offer violence", and Kiriona shouts something, but it's exceptionally unclear to me.

On the last bit

Alecto offers herself up as Harrow's Guardian because she recognizes through the blood on her lips that Harrow is the tomb keeper and Alecto made a vow to Anastasia, the first tomb keeper. Kirona says in response, and I quote, "Get in line, thou big slut"

Ah. That makes a bit of sense; I couldn't parse what kind of oath Alecto had sworn to Anastasia.

webguy20

Tamin wrote: »

webguy20 wrote: »

Tamin wrote: »

Peewi wrote: »

I finished Nona and I guess I have a bunch of questions.

It's a bit unclear who John is telling his story to. It seems to say that it's Harrow, but there are parts that only seem to make sense if he's talking to Alecto. Or maybe both Harrow and Alecto are there? But also, it's a dream and we all know those are known for making perfect sense.

I guess Alecto is the spirit of the Earth? Or possibly the sun?. Either way they seem unhappy with being put into a human body.

There's a tower in the river??? Did John do this???

I'm not entirely sure what was happening at the end, other than Nona's body falling apart (not 100% sure if she died) and Alecto woke up. I think Alecto bit someone as a result of not understanding how to be a human.

I was kind of hoping for an explanation for how Palamedes's soul went from being in some of his bones to being in Camilla, but oh well.

my core read is that
- Harrow's soul went to a version of the Locked Tomb at the end of Harrow
- from this position, she's ... I dunno, hitching a ride? sharing space? she's kinda-sorta there
- this gives her an overview of what mostly actually happened while John was still mostly human.

Now Harrow has this information and may do something with it; but it's not just Tamsyn telling us what happened. I think this is a recurring dream: John alludes to something like it in Harrow, I think.

Alecto is the Earth, I have no doubt.

Nona reached the body of Alecto, and her soul got back in. Harrow's soul is already there, and jumps back into the her body. Harrow is bitten by Alecto because the latter doesn't understand how to kiss; and after that I don't really follow. Probably Ianthe is the first one to "offer violence", and Kiriona shouts something, but it's exceptionally unclear to me.

On the last bit

Alecto offers herself up as Harrow's Guardian because she recognizes through the blood on her lips that Harrow is the tomb keeper and Alecto made a vow to Anastasia, the first tomb keeper. Kirona says in response, and I quote, "Get in line, thou big slut"

Ah. That makes a bit of sense; I couldn't parse what kind of oath Alecto had sworn to Anastasia.

I need to re-read it again and really think about it, because there are certainly clauses in there. The hard switch into faux-old english threw me though.

nightmarenny

Still extremely early in the book but I keep thinking back to the prologue

The line "Wealthy men go where the oxygen is. Wealthy men head for the exit" goes so hard. Wow.

Septus

Very important question: would you rather have five dads or five moms?

Definitely five dads. Between them you could cobble up just enough emotional support and connection, and you get lots of hands for chores. Five moms? Woah, pump the brakes on asking me about my day and how I'm feeling.

I kid, I kid

Also, early on

I've not been impressed with the memes(whargarrble, I've got the beef), but the general levity of the classroom banter and some of the parenting at home has really tickled me, and it's probably got mich broader appeal as well.

Delzhand

Post-Nona theorizing based on no particular evidence

I think the "devils" the cohort is fighting on Antioch is what became of the trillionaires who went FTL. I think they landed somewhere bad and turned into something awful. I mean, more awful than a trillionaires already is

webguy20

Delzhand wrote: »

Post-Nona theorizing based on no particular evidence

I think the "devils" the cohort is fighting on Antioch is what became of the trillionaires who went FTL. I think they landed somewhere bad and turned into something awful. I mean, more awful than a trillionaires already is

This would be a fun turn of events.

DevoutlyApathetic

Full Book Spoilers:

"Go Loud"

Fucking broke me.

htm

I just finished Nona and I have many thoughts! The first thing I must do, though, is admit that I actually laughed out loud at...

...John's account of the avatar he created for Alecto. When she opened the Tomb, pre-Gideon, Harrow fell instantly in love with Barbie made flesh.

Upon further reflection, I think this is a subtly sympathetic detail, given that Harrow was pre-teen when she opened the Tomb. But... it's also not hard to imagine Gideon relentlessly mocking her for falling for the blondest of bimbos.

A Dabble Of Thelonius

Finished Nona. Some thoughts

I think Blood of Eden is probably the rich folks descendents. But I could be sold on the rich folks being the devils as well.

I love Nona so much. Her scene in the catacombs talking about her missed birthday and then the shirt. Fucking, tears.

Noodle saves the day.

Last paragraph is excellent.

Ianthe is such a little goblin, I love her.

There's no upper limit to the amount of people I would kill to protect Nona.

A Dabble Of Thelonius

Memes?

Memes

nightmarenny

I'm unfortunately still very early into Nona but I want to say how amazed I am at Muir's willingness to leave you adrift each book. How different each book feels. How much it's willing to mess with the dynamics. I'm not satisfied with how I'm describing it here so I'll just say this.

In both sequels I did not feel like I got what I wanted and I mean that in the most positive possible way.

Septus

I've really appreciated the change in tone each time, but I'm pretty frustrated with the pronoun fuckery in the dialogue. It's hard to see what the narrative point is, as opposed to the structure of Harrow. Dialogue can be so damn confusing.

Delzhand

Septus wrote: »

I've really appreciated the change in tone each time, but I'm pretty frustrated with the pronoun fuckery in the dialogue. It's hard to see what the narrative point is, as opposed to the structure of Harrow. Dialogue can be so damn confusing.

How far in are you? There's a good narrative reason for it.

Septus

Delzhand wrote: »

Septus wrote: »

I've really appreciated the change in tone each time, but I'm pretty frustrated with the pronoun fuckery in the dialogue. It's hard to see what the narrative point is, as opposed to the structure of Harrow. Dialogue can be so damn confusing.

How far in are you? There's a good narrative reason for it.

I will definitely defer full judgment until the end, but as of

them finding Gideon, and escaping on the convoy trucks

it's hard to see the benefit. Even if it's thematic to play with expectations sometimes, I think I'd question just how pervasive it is, and slightly different personal cues and word choices could make it easier for the reader(I don't think Muir cares) while still having key moments where you're left confused.

Grey Ghost

Sorry, what pronoun stuff are you referring to specifically?

Delzhand

Grey Ghost wrote: »

Sorry, what pronoun stuff are you referring to specifically?

I assumed Septus meant

Camilla/Palamedes in the same body and Nona using the pronouns of whoever is "active", or perhaps Pyrrha using fem pronouns despite being in Gideon the First's male body, but both of those are clear well before the convoy trucks.

At least I think so? Assuming you've read Gideon/Harrow it should be clear.

3cl1ps3

Delzhand wrote: »

Grey Ghost wrote: »

Sorry, what pronoun stuff are you referring to specifically?

I assumed Septus meant

Camilla/Palamedes in the same body and Nona using the pronouns of whoever is "active", or perhaps Pyrrha using fem pronouns despite being in Gideon the First's male body, but both of those are clear well before the convoy trucks.

At least I think so? Assuming you've read Gideon/Harrow it should be clear.

I wouldn't describe that as fuckery at all really, it's very clear both from Harrow and context what's going on there.

Delzhand

Same but I couldn't think of anything else that qualified.

Septus

3cl1ps3 wrote: »

Delzhand wrote: »

Grey Ghost wrote: »

Sorry, what pronoun stuff are you referring to specifically?

I assumed Septus meant

Camilla/Palamedes in the same body and Nona using the pronouns of whoever is "active", or perhaps Pyrrha using fem pronouns despite being in Gideon the First's male body, but both of those are clear well before the convoy trucks.

At least I think so? Assuming you've read Gideon/Harrow it should be clear.

I wouldn't describe that as fuckery at all really, it's very clear both from Harrow and context what's going on there.

I'll have to find my examples, but

We Suffer talking about we sent "her" along to the barracks instead of just saying Pyrrha, and then getting to the scene and who I see that's brought along is Judith so I assume that's the "her". Or, the description of Ianthe at the barracks, I'm reading it as Ianthe is there in her body(the video earlier wasn't super illuminating) and Babs is a puppet next to her and only a page or two later do I see it's just Babs. These are key moments, but I felt like all throughout the book there's unclear pronouns, or a lack of pronouns and referring to the speaker, for no clear purpose. The mildest of these, but it still slowed me down, is the John chapters with all the He Said intros.