Hamish Harding. Billionaire who fancies himself an adventurer. Set a world speed record for circumnavigating the Earth pole-to-pole, dived to the Challenger Deep to get some more records, was a "space" tourist in Bezos' rocket last year, stuff like that.
Paul-Henri Nargeolet. French maritime expert who's been on 35 dives to the Titanic on various research and recovery expeditions. (Very impressive resumé, imho.) His reported attitude to the risk on previous Titanic dives is, apparently, that if something went wrong he'd literally die before he'd notice something was happening so "it's just not a problem". Also, he's 77 years old. Maybe that factored in to his willingness to try this deathtrap, I dunno.
Shahzada Dawood. Not a billionaire, estimated at "just" $350 million. Businessman from a Pakistani family dealing in... textiles and fertilizer, I guess? Not notable enough to have a Wikipedia article on him.
Suleman Dawood. 19-year-old son of the above, only info is that he's in university and has a brother. Probably the person I feel the worst for. At least Nargeolet seems to have understood the risks properly.
Stockton Rush. Idiot OceanGate CEO who decided to take a ride to hell in his own carbon-fiber coffin.
Also, they've got 96 hours of oxygen. So they've still got maybe 40 hours left, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for rescue.
One of the people on board was Paul-Henry Nargeolet, a French expert on the Titanic who has made something like 37 trips to the wreck. The other was a British billionaire named Harding who apparently holds three Guinness records including the record for the "longest duration at full ocean depth by a crewed vessel." He and another dude basically went to the lowest depth of the Marianas Trench.
So like, at least two of the five people were ostensibly not amateurs WRT deep sea dives at least.
That said apparently the sub only had three voyages and one of them didn't even make it to the wreck because the communication system broke down and it got turned around. The mother ship guides it down with... text messages.
Edit: ah well there you go Neveron has a better rundown.
The British billionaire was a private jet salesman. A whole job selling "shit that's bad for the planet" to "people who are bad for the planet."
And then using the funds to go participate in a form of "exploration" that appears to principally be "pay someone else a lot of money to cart you around in a vehicle of some variety."
Okay so he has one of the same big concerns I do, which is that their life support system appears to just be "has oxygen," not an actual air monitoring and filtration system to maintain good air quality over a 96 hour operational period.
Is there even any way to rescue them in time if they are somehow still intact on the ocean floor? How would they reach them before the deadline when those depths require highly specialized transportation, much less haul them back up enough to safely open the tin of sardines?
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Is there even any way to rescue them in time if they are somehow still intact on the ocean floor? How would they reach them before the deadline when those depths require highly specialized transportation, much less haul them back up enough to safely open the tin of sardines?
If they're alive but stuck on the seafloor they're effectively unreachable.
Things that could have gone wrong in decreasing probability order
1. The previously-identified-as-insufficiently-able-to-withstand-Titanic-depths sub imploded well before their intended depth
2. The sub immediately malfunctioned and they’re stuck because Rush forgot to charge his phone and thus can’t send a text message
3. They’re stuck because the elevator button wires came loose and Rush didn’t charge his phone
4. They are bobbing at the surface far from their expected location due to Joycon drift; Rush’s cell phone is still dead
5. They got stuck in the wreckage and the “hull” finally imploded
6. They got stuck and the 2 billionaires demanded the other 3 stop breathing, the old French diver beat Rush to death with his cell phone and they can’t use it to send a text via StarLink
7. Someone farted real bad and knocked out both the pilot and Rush’s cell phone
Okay so he has one of the same big concerns I do, which is that their life support system appears to just be "has oxygen," not an actual air monitoring and filtration system to maintain good air quality over a 96 hour operational period.
Any kind of life support monitoring might require more than one button though.
Monitoring the system might take some skill, when everyone knows you should be able to descend into one of the single harshest environment known to exist on the planet as easily as taking an elevator.
In 1898 a writer called Morgan Robertson wrote an adventure story called The Wreck of the Titan: Or, Futility, over the course of which the hypothetical largest ship in the world, the four-funnelled SS Titan, hits an iceberg and sinks.
Setting aside that his eerily prescient predictions could be reasonably extrapolated from the state of Ocean Liner development in the 1890s, it really makes it bad form to call any vessel designed to visit Titanic the Titan. Almost as fate tempting as Clive Palmer's Titanic II.
The concerns Lochridge voiced came to light as part of a breach of contract case related to Lochridge refusing to greenlight manned tests of the early models of the submersible over safety concerns. Lochridge was fired, and then OceanGate sued him for disclosing confidential information about the Titan submersible. In response, Lochridge filed a compulsory counterclaim where he alleged wrongful termination over being a whistleblower about the quality and safety of the submersible.
The submersible was to be fitted with a view port only rated to 1300 meters, not the 4000 meters that the Titanic rests at, and OceanGate owners claimed that the technology did not exist to do a number of non-destructive tests to verify hull integrity.
Paying passengers wouldn’t know or be informed about Lochridge’s concerns, according to his complaints. They also wouldn’t be informed “that hazardous flammable materials were being used within the submersible.” Lochridge expressed concerns about the Titan again. But OceanGate didn’t address those concerns, and Lockridge was fired.
The case between Lochridge and OceanGate didn’t advance much further, and a few months later the two parties settled.
The concerns Lochridge voiced came to light as part of a breach of contract case related to Lochridge refusing to greenlight manned tests of the early models of the submersible over safety concerns. Lochridge was fired, and then OceanGate sued him for disclosing confidential information about the Titan submersible. In response, Lochridge filed a compulsory counterclaim where he alleged wrongful termination over being a whistleblower about the quality and safety of the submersible.
The submersible was to be fitted with a view port only rated to 1300 meters, not the 4000 meters that the Titanic rests at, and OceanGate owners claimed that the technology did not exist to do a number of non-destructive tests to verify hull integrity.
Paying passengers wouldn’t know or be informed about Lochridge’s concerns, according to his complaints. They also wouldn’t be informed “that hazardous flammable materials were being used within the submersible.” Lochridge expressed concerns about the Titan again. But OceanGate didn’t address those concerns, and Lockridge was fired.
The case between Lochridge and OceanGate didn’t advance much further, and a few months later the two parties settled.
Yeah that was the basis for why implosion was most likely and toxic anesthesia farts was 7 on my list
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I mean it's true, you can't non-destructively test the depth at which a carbon fiber hull fails because carbon fiber doesn't buckle or crack, it just shatters.
But that's why pressure vessels are generally not made out of carbon fiber!
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
The CEO deliberately didn't allow voice comms on the sub because he gets annoyed at being interrupted for updates while submerged.
What a fucking loser. And he took 4 people with him. Christ.
Yeah if there's any slight positive to this it's that for once the person taking risks on others' lives got to experience the consequences themself.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Also operational floor is not like, "you are magically safe above this number." If your operational floor is 4000 meters (calculated, never tested) and you plan to spend awhile hanging out at 3800 meters, you're riding the line of what your vehicle is capable of withstanding.
If they're alive but stuck on the seafloor they're effectively unreachable.
At this point, assuming you found them all immediately, wouldn't they pop like balloons due to decompression before you could even get them any of the proper air/food/water they'd need?
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
No, the pressure inside the sub should be just about atmospheric pressure, maybe slightly more. I'm not even sure you need to worry about the bends with a sealed pressure vessel.
I mean it's true, you can't non-destructively test the depth at which a carbon fiber hull fails because carbon fiber doesn't buckle or crack, it just shatters.
But that's why pressure vessels are generally not made out of carbon fiber!
It sounds like there are all sorts of non-destructive tests that can be done to test various factors of hull integrity, and I am skeptical that it being made out of carbon-fiber instead of metal means those tests were all impossible to perform.
Lochridge was particularly concerned about “non-destructive testing performed on the hull of the Titan” but he was “repeatedly told that no scan of the hull or Bond Line could be done to check for delaminations, porosity and voids of sufficient adhesion of the glue being used due to the thickness of the hull.” He was also told there was no such equipment that could conduct a test like that.
I mean it's true, you can't non-destructively test the depth at which a carbon fiber hull fails because carbon fiber doesn't buckle or crack, it just shatters.
But that's why pressure vessels are generally not made out of carbon fiber!
Yes but carbon fiber sounds cool and techy therefore one can posit it actually rules to make submarines out of that.
I think it's been pretty clear from the start that they're definitely completely screwed but the media can't very well report the story as "billionaire and other rich people and a kid I guess are stuck at the bottom of the ocean and we're waiting for them to die gruesomely" now can they, they pretty much have to say "yeah the authorities say they're trying to figure out how to rescue them, which is both possible and potentially plausible" because in the extremely unlikely scenario that they do get rescued you get a whole other news cycle out of interviewing the people and rescuers and your narrative is intact.
No, the pressure inside the sub should be just about atmospheric pressure, maybe slightly more. I'm not even sure you need to worry about the bends with a sealed pressure vessel.
That's the entire point of a pressure vessel, after all.
I mean it's true, you can't non-destructively test the depth at which a carbon fiber hull fails because carbon fiber doesn't buckle or crack, it just shatters.
But that's why pressure vessels are generally not made out of carbon fiber!
Yes but carbon fiber sounds cool and techy therefore one can posit it actually rules to make submarines out of that.
If it's good enough for the wing of my honda civic it's good enough for a submarine.
My argument that we should be far more concerned by the ocean than space is backed up here.
Space didn't gooify billionaires the fucking ocean did.
The thing about space is that, contrary to popular belief, exposure to a vacuum is... well, it's not healthy, but you can survive for a while. We're talking "get them back to atmospheric pressure within 27 seconds" in terms of exposure time, so it's not a long while, but it's very technically survivable. (Soyuz 11 sadly demonstrated that 30-40 seconds is lethal and 20 seconds of vacuum is enough to become nonresponsive. tl;dr: you need external pressure to get oxygen to your brain.)
You're not going to swell up into a balloon or instantly freeze into a block of ice or anything, though. Going from 1 to 0 atmospheres of pressure is a bad time, but your skin can handle one atmosphere of pressure differential.
Exposure to the deep ocean, meanwhile. Pressure increases by roughly one atmosphere per 10 meters/33 feet. The human body can handle a couple atmospheres of pressure, by which I mean four-ish.
At the Titanic, 4,000 meters down, you're talking four hundred.
If exposed to that pressure, you will be crushed so fast that your brain won't even be able to process it happening. Instant death, painless because it's faster than pain.
The ocean is, in some ways, the most inhospitable environment humans have ever been to.
To quote a man who is likely dead, and almost definitely dead the day after tomorrow:
Paul Henri Nargeolet is matter-of-fact - nay even jolly - when discussing the risks associated with his work.
“If you are 11m or 11km down, if something bad happens, the result is the same,” the 73-year-old former French Naval Captain says, chuckling merrily. “When you’re in very deep water, you’re dead before you realise that something is happening, so it’s just not a problem.”
Paul Henri’s mirth comes from a question that may seem silly to him, but which is completely normal for those of us unused to exploring the deepest parts of the planet’s oceans: Isn’t he ever scared down there? The answer, obviously, is no. But that doesn’t mean he’s never moved by what he sees.
Look, the vessel making the trip to that depth a few times successfully doesn't mean it was actually safely rated for that depth.
Being safely rated for that depth means that it can perform at that depth an indefinite amount of times without issue. My feeling is that exposing it to depths far beyond the intended metrics for various parts of it placed a lot of stress on those parts, culminating in enough stress to lead to catastrophic failure this time around.
... tourist subs, which could once be skippered by anyone with a U.S. Coast Guard captain’s license, were regulated by the Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993, which imposed rigorous new manufacturing and inspection requirements and prohibited dives below 150 feet. The law was well-meaning, Rush says, but he believes it needlessly prioritized passenger safety over commercial innovation (a position a less adventurous submariner might find open to debate).
“There hasn’t been an injury in the commercial sub industry in over 35 years. It’s obscenely safe, because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn’t innovated or grown—because they have all these regulations.” The U.S. government, meanwhile, has continued to favor space exploration over ocean research: NASA today gets about $10.5 billion annually for exploration, while NOAA’s Office of Ocean Exploration and Research is allotted less than $50 million—a triumph of “emotion over logic,” Rush says. “Half of the United States is underwater, and we haven’t even mapped it!”
Edit: for context the cost of the planned replacement for the USN-owned and Woods Hole operated submersible Alvin, which carries humans down to 14000ft, is currently US$22mil for good reasons that include but aren't limited to preventing the deaths of it's passengers.
Hell, the OceanGate folks didn't even bother to wander into a fucking West Marine and spend less than eight hundo on a Cat 1 EPIRB that would be beeping away right now, announcing the Titan's position via satellite.
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Also, they've got 96 hours of oxygen. So they've still got maybe 40 hours left, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for rescue.
So like, at least two of the five people were ostensibly not amateurs WRT deep sea dives at least.
That said apparently the sub only had three voyages and one of them didn't even make it to the wreck because the communication system broke down and it got turned around. The mother ship guides it down with... text messages.
Edit: ah well there you go Neveron has a better rundown.
And then using the funds to go participate in a form of "exploration" that appears to principally be "pay someone else a lot of money to cart you around in a vehicle of some variety."
Really lean in on it
Okay so he has one of the same big concerns I do, which is that their life support system appears to just be "has oxygen," not an actual air monitoring and filtration system to maintain good air quality over a 96 hour operational period.
If they're alive but stuck on the seafloor they're effectively unreachable.
Hm.
Wanna build a submarine? I'm definitely not a cop and that definitely isn't a euphemism for doing hard narcotic drugs!
I literally need you to build a submarine!
Let's g- wait, can I bring weapons?
What a fucking loser. And he took 4 people with him. Christ.
1. The previously-identified-as-insufficiently-able-to-withstand-Titanic-depths sub imploded well before their intended depth
2. The sub immediately malfunctioned and they’re stuck because Rush forgot to charge his phone and thus can’t send a text message
3. They’re stuck because the elevator button wires came loose and Rush didn’t charge his phone
4. They are bobbing at the surface far from their expected location due to Joycon drift; Rush’s cell phone is still dead
5. They got stuck in the wreckage and the “hull” finally imploded
6. They got stuck and the 2 billionaires demanded the other 3 stop breathing, the old French diver beat Rush to death with his cell phone and they can’t use it to send a text via StarLink
7. Someone farted real bad and knocked out both the pilot and Rush’s cell phone
Any kind of life support monitoring might require more than one button though.
Monitoring the system might take some skill, when everyone knows you should be able to descend into one of the single harshest environment known to exist on the planet as easily as taking an elevator.
Space didn't gooify billionaires the fucking ocean did.
Well not yet
Setting aside that his eerily prescient predictions could be reasonably extrapolated from the state of Ocean Liner development in the 1890s, it really makes it bad form to call any vessel designed to visit Titanic the Titan. Almost as fate tempting as Clive Palmer's Titanic II.
The submersible was to be fitted with a view port only rated to 1300 meters, not the 4000 meters that the Titanic rests at, and OceanGate owners claimed that the technology did not exist to do a number of non-destructive tests to verify hull integrity.
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A lot more rich people have died to the ocean than to space. The ocean is terrifying but I can respect its work ethic.
Yeah that was the basis for why implosion was most likely and toxic anesthesia farts was 7 on my list
But that's why pressure vessels are generally not made out of carbon fiber!
Yeah if there's any slight positive to this it's that for once the person taking risks on others' lives got to experience the consequences themself.
At this point, assuming you found them all immediately, wouldn't they pop like balloons due to decompression before you could even get them any of the proper air/food/water they'd need?
It sounds like there are all sorts of non-destructive tests that can be done to test various factors of hull integrity, and I am skeptical that it being made out of carbon-fiber instead of metal means those tests were all impossible to perform.
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Yes but carbon fiber sounds cool and techy therefore one can posit it actually rules to make submarines out of that.
That's the entire point of a pressure vessel, after all.
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If it's good enough for the wing of my honda civic it's good enough for a submarine.
The thing about space is that, contrary to popular belief, exposure to a vacuum is... well, it's not healthy, but you can survive for a while. We're talking "get them back to atmospheric pressure within 27 seconds" in terms of exposure time, so it's not a long while, but it's very technically survivable. (Soyuz 11 sadly demonstrated that 30-40 seconds is lethal and 20 seconds of vacuum is enough to become nonresponsive. tl;dr: you need external pressure to get oxygen to your brain.)
You're not going to swell up into a balloon or instantly freeze into a block of ice or anything, though. Going from 1 to 0 atmospheres of pressure is a bad time, but your skin can handle one atmosphere of pressure differential.
Exposure to the deep ocean, meanwhile. Pressure increases by roughly one atmosphere per 10 meters/33 feet. The human body can handle a couple atmospheres of pressure, by which I mean four-ish.
At the Titanic, 4,000 meters down, you're talking four hundred.
If exposed to that pressure, you will be crushed so fast that your brain won't even be able to process it happening. Instant death, painless because it's faster than pain.
The ocean is, in some ways, the most inhospitable environment humans have ever been to.
To quote a man who is likely dead, and almost definitely dead the day after tomorrow: (Irish Examiner, October 7 2019.)
Being safely rated for that depth means that it can perform at that depth an indefinite amount of times without issue. My feeling is that exposing it to depths far beyond the intended metrics for various parts of it placed a lot of stress on those parts, culminating in enough stress to lead to catastrophic failure this time around.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Edit: for context the cost of the planned replacement for the USN-owned and Woods Hole operated submersible Alvin, which carries humans down to 14000ft, is currently US$22mil for good reasons that include but aren't limited to preventing the deaths of it's passengers.
Hell, the OceanGate folks didn't even bother to wander into a fucking West Marine and spend less than eight hundo on a Cat 1 EPIRB that would be beeping away right now, announcing the Titan's position via satellite.