Is there even any way to rescue them in time if they are somehow still intact on the ocean floor? How would they reach them before the deadline when those depths require highly specialized transportation, much less haul them back up enough to safely open the tin of sardines?
Yes, the USN has the Fly Away Deep Ocean Salvage System (FADOSS) which has lifted much smaller things from this depth, they use a bunch of big ROVs to inspect and hook up before lifting. But somebody has to find the thing first, and FADOSS has to get itself and the support equipment from wherever it currently is, to Newfoundland, and then out to the Titantic site while figuring out how they can lift it safely.
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DepressperadoI just wanted to see you laughingin the pizza rainRegistered Userregular
... tourist subs, which could once be skippered by anyone with a U.S. Coast Guard captain’s license, were regulated by the Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993, which imposed rigorous new manufacturing and inspection requirements and prohibited dives below 150 feet. The law was well-meaning, Rush says, but he believes it needlessly prioritized passenger safety over commercial innovation (a position a less adventurous submariner might find open to debate).
“There hasn’t been an injury in the commercial sub industry in over 35 years. It’s obscenely safe, because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn’t innovated or grown—because they have all these regulations.” The U.S. government, meanwhile, has continued to favor space exploration over ocean research: NASA today gets about $10.5 billion annually for exploration, while NOAA’s Office of Ocean Exploration and Research is allotted less than $50 million—a triumph of “emotion over logic,” Rush says. “Half of the United States is underwater, and we haven’t even mapped it!”
Edit: for context the cost of the planned replacement for the USN-owned and Woods Hole operated submersible Alvin, which carries humans down to 14000ft, is currently US$22mil for good reasons that include but aren't limited to preventing the deaths of it's passengers.
Hell, the OceanGate folks didn't even bother to wander into a fucking West Marine and spend less than eight hundo on a Cat 1 EPIRB that would be beeping away right now, announcing the Titan's position via satellite.
This is something that is driving me utterly bonkers.
I installed a personal EPIRB in my offshore harness/vest and it took a few hundred bucks and 5 god damn minutes. Couldn't think "ya know what? one of the most reliable rescue devices in the history of mankind is available from a store where drunk sunburnt retirees buy pool noodles...maybe I should get one."?
Is there even any way to rescue them in time if they are somehow still intact on the ocean floor? How would they reach them before the deadline when those depths require highly specialized transportation, much less haul them back up enough to safely open the tin of sardines?
Yes, the USN has the Fly Away Deep Ocean Salvage System (FADOSS) which has lifted much smaller things from this depth, they use a bunch of big ROVs to inspect and hook up before lifting. But somebody has to find the thing first, and FADOSS has to get itself and the support equipment from wherever it currently is, to Newfoundland, and then out to the Titantic site while figuring out how they can lift it safely.
So in the event it is still intact they'll be able to retrieve the bodies then. And maybe someone with an eye towards criminal liability charges can take a look at the craft itself to find what went wrong.
Dude exactly! When I first saw this pop up on my newsfeed my first thought was "oh hopefully their EPIRB means they can find them quickly" and was utterly furious to find out they didn't bother with any of the typical safety things for just plain old surface sailing, much less subs.
The sailor part of me is utterly gobsmacked at the lack of care and humility this prick demonstrated.
The video game industry part of me is good friends with the head of strategic partnerships at Logitech and is terrified to reach out to see if he's still breathing.
(there is literally no way that it was a partnership arrangement - that thing was picked up at a Target, I'm sure)
Dude exactly! When I first saw this pop up on my newsfeed my first thought was "oh hopefully their EPIRB means they can find them quickly" and was utterly furious to find out they didn't bother with any of the typical safety things for just plain old surface sailing, much less subs.
Criminally negligent.
Oh they're going to get sued into the ground. You actually can't waive away your right not to be killed, A, and B the utter lack of industry standard safety practices means they're grossly negligent, which again, you can't waive away your right to not be subjected to gross negligence.
The sailor part of me is utterly gobsmacked at the lack of care and humility this prick demonstrated.
The video game industry part of me is good friends with the head of strategic partnerships at Logitech and is terrified to reach out to see if he's still breathing.
(there is literally no way that it was a partnership arrangement - that thing was picked up at a Target, I'm sure)
To be fair, those Logitech controllers aren't, like, good, but it's really easy to reverse engineer their serial protocol. And when I'm building a deep sea vessel, "something a 12 year old could code up" is certainly my highest priority for an interface.
Is there even any way to rescue them in time if they are somehow still intact on the ocean floor? How would they reach them before the deadline when those depths require highly specialized transportation, much less haul them back up enough to safely open the tin of sardines?
Yes, the USN has the Fly Away Deep Ocean Salvage System (FADOSS) which has lifted much smaller things from this depth, they use a bunch of big ROVs to inspect and hook up before lifting. But somebody has to find the thing first, and FADOSS has to get itself and the support equipment from wherever it currently is, to Newfoundland, and then out to the Titantic site while figuring out how they can lift it safely.
So in the event it is still intact they'll be able to retrieve the bodies then. And maybe someone with an eye towards criminal liability charges can take a look at the craft itself to find what went wrong.
I mean, they made a submarine out of hubris and Camper World parts, I'm pretty sure we know what went wrong.
Just a quick primer for those who are smarter than Usagi and myself and thus have chosen a life away from water - this is the type of device we're raging about.
That little $330 bit of kit goes utterly batshit when activated. It sends out regular pulses to all ships in the area with your exact coordinates AND rings a designated "I need my ass to be saved ASAP" number every 5 minutes AND a group number every 30. And that's just the itty bitty version of it.
... tourist subs, which could once be skippered by anyone with a U.S. Coast Guard captain’s license, were regulated by the Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993, which imposed rigorous new manufacturing and inspection requirements and prohibited dives below 150 feet. The law was well-meaning, Rush says, but he believes it needlessly prioritized passenger safety over commercial innovation (a position a less adventurous submariner might find open to debate).
“There hasn’t been an injury in the commercial sub industry in over 35 years. It’s obscenely safe, because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn’t innovated or grown—because they have all these regulations.” The U.S. government, meanwhile, has continued to favor space exploration over ocean research: NASA today gets about $10.5 billion annually for exploration, while NOAA’s Office of Ocean Exploration and Research is allotted less than $50 million—a triumph of “emotion over logic,” Rush says. “Half of the United States is underwater, and we haven’t even mapped it!”
Edit: for context the cost of the planned replacement for the USN-owned and Woods Hole operated submersible Alvin, which carries humans down to 14000ft, is currently US$22mil for good reasons that include but aren't limited to preventing the deaths of it's passengers.
Hell, the OceanGate folks didn't even bother to wander into a fucking West Marine and spend less than eight hundo on a Cat 1 EPIRB that would be beeping away right now, announcing the Titan's position via satellite.
I awesomed this not because it is awesome, but because I appreciate any commentary from somebody who knows their shit
so, one thing i'm curious about is signal propagation underwater. i know that we can send signals all the way through the atmosphere but would a similar transmitter still work through miles of saltwater? how much attenuation is there?
(granted, if they're on the ocean floor i don't think a signal would matter anyway, we'd just know where the bodies are)
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JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
That dude is going to be so pissed to have a maritime safety act named after him.
so, one thing i'm curious about is signal propagation underwater. i know that we can send signals all the way through the atmosphere but would a similar transmitter still work through miles of saltwater? how much attenuation is there?
(granted, if they're on the ocean floor i don't think a signal would matter anyway, we'd just know where the bodies are)
They're definitely designed for surface type things, but who knows
If (when) they figure out its on the ocean floor it'll likely be because of the sonar buoys or seismic tracking, that shit can hear a krill fart
Look, I'm no legislator, but if a billionaire home brews a submarine and then dies in it in a spectacularly public way, then I think job done, lesson illustrated, no new laws needed.
Honestly I'd encourage billionaires to innovate in the extreme exploration space, I'd start a contest for building a submarine in your backyard and personally piloting it to the bottom of the Marianas Trench and back and the prize is we'll rename a state after you, you pick which one.
so, one thing i'm curious about is signal propagation underwater. i know that we can send signals all the way through the atmosphere but would a similar transmitter still work through miles of saltwater? how much attenuation is there?
(granted, if they're on the ocean floor i don't think a signal would matter anyway, we'd just know where the bodies are)
156 megahertz radio is going to penetrate... I can't figure out the length, but not very far at all. Fantastic on the surface, not so much underwater.
For reference, the usual method to talk with subs is very low frequency radio waves in the kilohertz, and they let you talk to subs tens of meters underwater. Talking to military subs at operational depths (hundreds of meters) requires extremely low frequency radio waves measured in no-prefix hertz, which is something that only governments do (and of them, only the US, China, Russia, and India). (One of those antennae was 52 kilometers long.)
Notice that the Titanic is not at tens of meters down, though, or hundreds of meters. It's three thousand seven hundred meters down.
For an underwater ROV (or, IIRC, Challenger Depths dives?), you'd use some kind of extremely long cable trailing after the machine.
The deep ocean is not very friendly.
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JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
My argument that we should be far more concerned by the ocean than space is backed up here.
Space didn't gooify billionaires the fucking ocean did.
I've got faith in space and it's ability to both incinerate and flash freeze billionaires
As much fun as it would be to launch billionaires towards the sun, it would be much more resource-efficient to eject them from the galaxy
If we assume a $25k upfront investment, sounds like homemade submarines are the most resource efficient route to billionaire removal
We've got enough garbage in the ocean as it is!
Yeah but look at it this way - if we toss in enough billionaires, pretty quickly it's gonna be a net positive on how much garbage gets thrown into the ocean. I mean, this one guy literally sold private jets, we already may be at a net positive for the environment.
Look, I'm no legislator, but if a billionaire home brews a submarine and then dies in it in a spectacularly public way, then I think job done, lesson illustrated, no new laws needed.
Honestly I'd encourage billionaires to innovate in the extreme exploration space, I'd start a contest for building a submarine in your backyard and personally piloting it to the bottom of the Marianas Trench and back and the prize is we'll rename a state after you, you pick which one*.
*must be a directional state
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Look, I'm no legislator, but if a billionaire home brews a submarine and then dies in it in a spectacularly public way, then I think job done, lesson illustrated, no new laws needed.
Honestly I'd encourage billionaires to innovate in the extreme exploration space, I'd start a contest for building a submarine in your backyard and personally piloting it to the bottom of the Marianas Trench and back and the prize is we'll rename a state after you, you pick which one*.
They'd find the scattered remnants of the carbon-fiber hull.
Reportedly searchers have heard "banging" in the vicinity of the Titanic (Rolling Stone had an article, but behind a paywall), so sounds like they didn't implode. I'm not sure there's any way for them to get rescued even if they're found, though, especially with just thirty remaining hours of oxygen.
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miscellaneousinsanitygrass grows, birds fly, sun shines,and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered Userregular
Posts
Yes, the USN has the Fly Away Deep Ocean Salvage System (FADOSS) which has lifted much smaller things from this depth, they use a bunch of big ROVs to inspect and hook up before lifting. But somebody has to find the thing first, and FADOSS has to get itself and the support equipment from wherever it currently is, to Newfoundland, and then out to the Titantic site while figuring out how they can lift it safely.
it's like a Michael Bay character name
Or a James Cameron character name
Brock Lovett was the name of the guy searching the wreckage in titanic the movie
This is something that is driving me utterly bonkers.
I installed a personal EPIRB in my offshore harness/vest and it took a few hundred bucks and 5 god damn minutes. Couldn't think "ya know what? one of the most reliable rescue devices in the history of mankind is available from a store where drunk sunburnt retirees buy pool noodles...maybe I should get one."?
The ocean does not fucking play around.
So in the event it is still intact they'll be able to retrieve the bodies then. And maybe someone with an eye towards criminal liability charges can take a look at the craft itself to find what went wrong.
Criminally negligent.
The video game industry part of me is good friends with the head of strategic partnerships at Logitech and is terrified to reach out to see if he's still breathing.
(there is literally no way that it was a partnership arrangement - that thing was picked up at a Target, I'm sure)
Oh they're going to get sued into the ground. You actually can't waive away your right not to be killed, A, and B the utter lack of industry standard safety practices means they're grossly negligent, which again, you can't waive away your right to not be subjected to gross negligence.
Job lot off ebay would be my guess.
The console wars have taken a strange turn indeed.
I mean, they made a submarine out of hubris and Camper World parts, I'm pretty sure we know what went wrong.
https://www.westmarine.com/ocean-signal-rescueme-mob1-ais-dsc-personal-locator-beacon-16749251.html
That little $330 bit of kit goes utterly batshit when activated. It sends out regular pulses to all ships in the area with your exact coordinates AND rings a designated "I need my ass to be saved ASAP" number every 5 minutes AND a group number every 30. And that's just the itty bitty version of it.
I awesomed this not because it is awesome, but because I appreciate any commentary from somebody who knows their shit
Ah, well they just showed a standard ass playstation controller, but maybe that's the best they had in the national news props department
*honk honk IRONY BUS honk honk*
(granted, if they're on the ocean floor i don't think a signal would matter anyway, we'd just know where the bodies are)
They're definitely designed for surface type things, but who knows
If (when) they figure out its on the ocean floor it'll likely be because of the sonar buoys or seismic tracking, that shit can hear a krill fart
What sort of pressures are they rated for? And how would you rig it to work, at depth?
I assume the surface use case is trivial.
I've got faith in space and it's ability to both incinerate and flash freeze billionaires
Come Overwatch with meeeee
As much fun as it would be to launch billionaires towards the sun, it would be much more resource-efficient to eject them from the galaxy
Honestly I'd encourage billionaires to innovate in the extreme exploration space, I'd start a contest for building a submarine in your backyard and personally piloting it to the bottom of the Marianas Trench and back and the prize is we'll rename a state after you, you pick which one.
If we assume a $25k upfront investment, sounds like homemade submarines are the most resource efficient route to billionaire removal
We've got enough garbage in the ocean as it is!
For reference, the usual method to talk with subs is very low frequency radio waves in the kilohertz, and they let you talk to subs tens of meters underwater. Talking to military subs at operational depths (hundreds of meters) requires extremely low frequency radio waves measured in no-prefix hertz, which is something that only governments do (and of them, only the US, China, Russia, and India). (One of those antennae was 52 kilometers long.)
Notice that the Titanic is not at tens of meters down, though, or hundreds of meters. It's three thousand seven hundred meters down.
For an underwater ROV (or, IIRC, Challenger Depths dives?), you'd use some kind of extremely long cable trailing after the machine.
The deep ocean is not very friendly.
This is a classic case of a whalefall, though.
Actually I am surprised no one's tried to meme that the orcas have taken the sub hostage
Yeah but look at it this way - if we toss in enough billionaires, pretty quickly it's gonna be a net positive on how much garbage gets thrown into the ocean. I mean, this one guy literally sold private jets, we already may be at a net positive for the environment.
*must be a directional state
They're probably smart enough to know we wouldn't want these folks back.
i guess hypothetically they might be able to find one very dense thing
Deep
Reportedly searchers have heard "banging" in the vicinity of the Titanic (Rolling Stone had an article, but behind a paywall), so sounds like they didn't implode. I'm not sure there's any way for them to get rescued even if they're found, though, especially with just thirty remaining hours of oxygen.