yeah what ever you're standing on will be at ground level of the Holodeck. Mind you if you're sitting on a chair you will fall on your ass, like Nog did that one time.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
God, I can't even wrap my brain around how the holodeck pulls off forced perspective for people standing in different places in a program.
yeah what ever you're standing on will be at ground level of the Holodeck. Mind you if you're sitting on a chair you will fall on your ass, like Nog did that one time.
Boimler’s in freefall off a cliff in “Crisis Point” when his holodeck program ends. He freezes in place a moment, then drops one more foot onto the floor.
tbf, I was imagining a situation where one or more people are high up while others are at ground/floor level. Or do people think the holodeck always engages in trickery and false images of everyone else, rather than just letting people be at actually different heights and see each other where they are?
tbf, I was imagining a situation where one or more people are high up while others are at ground/floor level.
Judging how people in places like Vic's or Fair Haven can be father apart than the room physically allows, there's no guarantee that the image of a person you see corresponds to their physical location in the room, you could both be inside of holographic bubbles until you're back in interaction range.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Is anyone ever credited for inventing the Holodeck? Cause I'm starting to believe the Federation found this tech, decided they understood it, and started just plugging them into ships. Also posted the designs on Github
Is anyone ever credited for inventing the Holodeck? Cause I'm starting to believe the Federation found this tech, decided they understood it, and started just plugging them into ships. Also posted the designs on Github
There's a tumblr/reddit/facebook/something post somewhere about humans being the Mad Scientists of the galaxy, freaking the Vulcans and Klingons out because they do insane things like plugging one warp core into another warp core to make them go faster. (I'm sure someone can find it and post it)
I can see the holodeck being developed like that:
"So, remember we lent you the holographic landscape generator last year, we were wondering if we could have it back? We need it to recreate an archaeological dig site we found."
"Oh, sure. FYI, we made a few copies and messed around with them a little bit. Did you know you can get this thing to generate people as well as landscapes?"
"Yeah, we tried that once. Couldn't get them to do anything other than pre-programmed animations, though. Good luck solving that problem."
"Huh. We just plugged it into an X-Station1440 and wrote an API to let it use it. Check out this Battle of Troy we came up with!"
"What?!"
Is anyone ever credited for inventing the Holodeck? Cause I'm starting to believe the Federation found this tech, decided they understood it, and started just plugging them into ships. Also posted the designs on Github
I don't think they have ever explicitly said, but that one race that they met in Enterprise where Trip tripped out on their atmosphere, then stuck his fingers in some crystals in a bowl and managed to get pregnant had some variation off a holodeck.
ENTERPRISE (yeah, I know) showed the tech already in use by another race, who ended up showing it off and possibly giving it to the Klingons (and humans too?), because ENT writers just couldn't seem to do without all the cool tech from TNG or later.
So if you take that as canon, it's entirely possible the answer is "we didn't invent it, someone gave it to us/we reverse-engineered it."
Is anyone ever credited for inventing the Holodeck? Cause I'm starting to believe the Federation found this tech, decided they understood it, and started just plugging them into ships. Also posted the designs on Github
There's a tumblr/reddit/facebook/something post somewhere about humans being the Mad Scientists of the galaxy, freaking the Vulcans and Klingons out because they do insane things like plugging one warp core into another warp core to make them go faster. (I'm sure someone kind find it and post it)
I can see the holodeck being developed like that:
"So, remember we lent you the holographic landscape generator last year, we were wondering if we could have it back? We need it to recreate an archaeological dig site we found."
"Oh, sure. FYI, we made a few copies and messed around with them a little bit. Did you know you can get this thing to generate people as well as landscapes?"
"Yeah, we tried that once. Couldn't get them to do anything other than pre-programmed animations, though. Good luck solving that problem."
"Huh. We just plugged it into an X-Station1440 and wrote an API to let it use it. Check out this Battle of Troy we came up with!"
"What?!"
Dunno if this is the right one, but here's a collection of some of the stuff.
God, I can't even wrap my brain around how the holodeck pulls off forced perspective for people standing in different places in a program.
kind of like Rick and Morty where everyone is on an individual treadmill.
Uuuuggg, Thinking abou that makes my brain hurt even more. The only way I could see it working would be for everyone and everything to be projected in a tiny cube around each player with cubes merging when players get close enough. Almost like hitboxes in video games. But the perspective shift would have to take place seamlessly to not be noticed. And if it worked like that, how could Wesley have fallen into the water or Picard shot up the Brogs. And now my brain hurts again.
Is anyone ever credited for inventing the Holodeck? Cause I'm starting to believe the Federation found this tech, decided they understood it, and started just plugging them into ships. Also posted the designs on Github
There's a tumblr/reddit/facebook/something post somewhere about humans being the Mad Scientists of the galaxy, freaking the Vulcans and Klingons out because they do insane things like plugging one warp core into another warp core to make them go faster. (I'm sure someone kind find it and post it)
I can see the holodeck being developed like that:
"So, remember we lent you the holographic landscape generator last year, we were wondering if we could have it back? We need it to recreate an archaeological dig site we found."
"Oh, sure. FYI, we made a few copies and messed around with them a little bit. Did you know you can get this thing to generate people as well as landscapes?"
"Yeah, we tried that once. Couldn't get them to do anything other than pre-programmed animations, though. Good luck solving that problem."
"Huh. We just plugged it into an X-Station1440 and wrote an API to let it use it. Check out this Battle of Troy we came up with!"
"What?!"
Dunno if this is the right one, but here's a collection of some of the stuff.
God, I can't even wrap my brain around how the holodeck pulls off forced perspective for people standing in different places in a program.
kind of like Rick and Morty where everyone is on an individual treadmill.
Uuuuggg, Thinking abou that makes my brain hurt even more. The only way I could see it working would be for everyone and everything to be projected in a tiny cube around each player with cubes merging when players get close enough. Almost like hitboxes in video games. But the perspective shift would have to take place seamlessly to not be noticed. And if it worked like that, how could Wesley have fallen into the water or Picard shot up the Brogs. And now my brain hurts again.
Nothing about the holodeck as presented makes sense. It's fine though.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
God, I can't even wrap my brain around how the holodeck pulls off forced perspective for people standing in different places in a program.
kind of like Rick and Morty where everyone is on an individual treadmill.
Uuuuggg, Thinking abou that makes my brain hurt even more. The only way I could see it working would be for everyone and everything to be projected in a tiny cube around each player with cubes merging when players get close enough. Almost like hitboxes in video games. But the perspective shift would have to take place seamlessly to not be noticed. And if it worked like that, how could Wesley have fallen into the water or Picard shot up the Brogs. And now my brain hurts again.
Nothing about the holodeck as presented makes sense. It's fine though.
Imagine the life of a QA tester for holodeck programs.
Incredibly long periods of boredom as you test the collision of every object in the program against the same surface to make sure they all impact correctly. Then move on to the next surface and repeat.
Then the occasional moment of pure horror as the green bottle you carried all the way across the simulation phases through a door and turns all the NPCs hostile, forcing you to kill all of them with your bare hands.
Standing there in the aftermath, gasping for breath, the holographic blood you're covered in fades away, and you file an urgent bug report.
"It's too close to release to patch out, we'll fix it with an update later on. Ship it to the Enterprise, they never complain about those kinds of things."
Actually I imagine most computers can do all that automatically in the tng era
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Imagine the life of a QA tester for holodeck programs.
Incredibly long periods of boredom as you test the collision of every object in the program against the same surface to make sure they all impact correctly. Then move on to the next surface and repeat.
Then the occasional moment of pure horror as the green bottle you carried all the way across the simulation phases through a door and turns all the NPCs hostile, forcing you to kill all of them with your bare hands.
Standing there in the aftermath, gasping for breath, the holographic blood you're covered in fades away, and you file an urgent bug report.
"It's too close to release to patch out, we'll fix it with an update later on. Ship it to the Enterprise, they never complain about those kinds of things."
Actually I imagine most computers can do all that automatically in the tng era
Automated QA testing is a technological marvel right up until Vulcan Love Slave #37 has half the senior staff locked in an elaborately scripted death battle she calls the Thirsty Games and the other half locked outside at least two commercial breaks away from figuring out how to open the door.
Imagine the life of a QA tester for holodeck programs.
Incredibly long periods of boredom as you test the collision of every object in the program against the same surface to make sure they all impact correctly. Then move on to the next surface and repeat.
Then the occasional moment of pure horror as the green bottle you carried all the way across the simulation phases through a door and turns all the NPCs hostile, forcing you to kill all of them with your bare hands.
Standing there in the aftermath, gasping for breath, the holographic blood you're covered in fades away, and you file an urgent bug report.
"It's too close to release to patch out, we'll fix it with an update later on. Ship it to the Enterprise, they never complain about those kinds of things."
Actually I imagine most computers can do all that automatically in the tng era
Automated QA testing is a technological marvel right up until Vulcan Love Slave #37 has half the senior staff locked in an elaborately scripted death battle she calls the Thirsty Games and the other half locked outside at least two commercial breaks away from figuring out how to open the door.
Also you can trust me when I tell you that someone has to write the automated tests. And that will go about as well as this ^. Or you can let the computer automated the automated tests. But then someone has to automated the computers automation of the automated tests. And..so on. It all ends in sentient holograms and Badgey, is what I'm saying. It's too complex not to.
As an aside though, my QA sensibility is offended by the existence of safety protocols you can turn off. Just bake that stuff right in there. There is no good reason whatsoever to turn that stuff off, so it should not be an option.
As an aside though, my QA sensibility is offended by the existence of safety protocols you can turn off. Just bake that stuff right in there. There is no good reason whatsoever to turn that stuff off, so it should not be an option.
I think you're making quite an assumption in that the safety protocols actually exist and aren't just a commented block of empty code labelled "develop before release".
Wasn’t there a TNG episode where some aliens come aboard to upgrade the holodeck? And they mention that they were the inventors of the original tech?
Edit: it was the Binars, and it looks like my memory is wrong, the line wasn’t important enough to make the plot summary, or the line existed but was a lie and I didn’t realize it.
As an aside though, my QA sensibility is offended by the existence of safety protocols you can turn off. Just bake that stuff right in there. There is no good reason whatsoever to turn that stuff off, so it should not be an option.
I think you're making quite an assumption in that the safety protocols actually exist and aren't just a commented block of empty code labelled "develop before release".
I'm reminded of a friend's theory regarding synthetics built by Weyland-Yutani (e.g. Bishop) : they're programmed to say that of course they're Three-Laws-compliant, but not to actually be.
Commander Zoom on
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Wasn’t there a TNG episode where some aliens come aboard to upgrade the holodeck? And they mention that they were the inventors of the original tech?
Edit: it was the Binars, and it looks like my memory is wrong, the line wasn’t important enough to make the plot summary, or the line existed but was a lie and I didn’t realize it.
Minuet existed directly due to the Binars and Riker says she's more advanced than anything he's seen in the Holodeck before, so there clearly was some upgrading going on, but once the Binars are gone so is Minuet so... :question:
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
"The Big Goodbye," the first Dixon Hill episode, was written and meant to be filmed/aired after "11001001" and the holodeck malfunction in it was supposed to have been caused by the Bynar upgrade.
Nobody ever says it but I'm totally happy just rolling with the idea that the Enterprise holodecks are weird because they have some extra space wizardry plugged in that the crew don't fully understand, and that this culminates in the ship giving birth to the alien computer baby in that one really weird season 7 episode.
"The Big Goodbye," the first Dixon Hill episode, was written and meant to be filmed/aired after "11001001" and the holodeck malfunction in it was supposed to have been caused by the Bynar upgrade.
Nobody ever says it but I'm totally happy just rolling with the idea that the Enterprise holodecks are weird because they have some extra space wizardry plugged in that the crew don't fully understand, and that this culminates in the ship giving birth to the alien computer baby in that one really weird season 7 episode.
which presumably goes off to "learn all that is learnable" and then make its way to Bynaus.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
As silly as the "All humans are Doc Brown" meme is, I think it just kind of fits for Star Trek. Not even just for humans, it makes sense as to how the Federation benefits from the amount of diversity they have. Starfleet is made up of thousands of lifeforms who are willing to take a gamble on magic space adventures for good or ill, and if humanity is a large percentage of Starfleets ranks (outside of show budget concerns) it's just because humans really like exploring new worlds, seeking out new civilizations, and boldly going where no one in their right mind would ever go
Thinking about it, do we ever actually see the safety protocols functioning? Not times where it doesn't break but they never need it, but like a sim where the Roman Centurion tries to stab someone and it just bounces off or something.
The only one I can think of is a Voyager sim where they're testing their new slipstream drive and it's able to accurately predict that the outcome will be unpredictable- actually strike that, they quit before it would have had to simulate them actually dying.
Thinking about it, do we ever actually see the safety protocols functioning? Not times where it doesn't break but they never need it, but like a sim where the Roman Centurion tries to stab someone and it just bounces off or something.
The only one I can think of is a Voyager sim where they're testing their new slipstream drive and it's able to accurately predict that the outcome will be unpredictable- actually strike that, they quit before it would have had to simulate them actually dying.
I feel like I remember someone being on the holodeck, them "dying", and it terminating the program back to the empty holodeck.
As I can't remember the show*, character, or circumstance, I'm not 100% sure I'm not imagining remembering it.
* or even if it was Star Trek, and not another show that used similar technology.
I suppose "safe" is a pretty nebulous concept when it comes to holodecks. Broadly you'd want to ensure that the occupants don't come to harm, but unless you want every surface you walk on to feel like foam rubber you'd need to have some threshold velocity of someone falling beyond which the safety protocols kick in to make the ground safe and soften it for the impact, and plenty of similar edge cases where something can go from "safe" to "unsafe" depending on context. The holodeck isn't just used for recreation of course, if you're mocking up a replica of a sword discovered on an archaeological dig you want to replicate, would suck if the safeties kept kicking in to make sure the sword wasn't dangerously sharp. Similarly with having a circuit breaker, if I remember right in The Big Goodbye, Wesley mentions that if they cut power while people are inside the holodeck they could cease to exist. Holodecks are supposed to be a mix of replicated matter and forcefields, presumably abruptly cutting power might trigger the automated holomatter clean-up protocols. It's also possible the forcefield emitters wouldn't react to well to having their power supply suddenly cut, would be a shame to accidentally bisect the entire bridge crew because emitter 14-b experienced an overvolt malfunction when you suddenly killed power to the whole system.
Overall it's amazing people are willing to step into holodecks rather than just sticking with a VR headset and treadmill.
I suppose "safe" is a pretty nebulous concept when it comes to holodecks. Broadly you'd want to ensure that the occupants don't come to harm, but unless you want every surface you walk on to feel like foam rubber you'd need to have some threshold velocity of someone falling beyond which the safety protocols kick in to make the ground safe and soften it for the impact, and plenty of similar edge cases where something can go from "safe" to "unsafe" depending on context. The holodeck isn't just used for recreation of course, if you're mocking up a replica of a sword discovered on an archaeological dig you want to replicate, would suck if the safeties kept kicking in to make sure the sword wasn't dangerously sharp. Similarly with having a circuit breaker, if I remember right in The Big Goodbye, Wesley mentions that if they cut power while people are inside the holodeck they could cease to exist. Holodecks are supposed to be a mix of replicated matter and forcefields, presumably abruptly cutting power might trigger the automated holomatter clean-up protocols. It's also possible the forcefield emitters wouldn't react to well to having their power supply suddenly cut, would be a shame to accidentally bisect the entire bridge crew because emitter 14-b experienced an overvolt malfunction when you suddenly killed power to the whole system.
Overall it's amazing people are willing to step into holodecks rather than just sticking with a VR headset and treadmill.
I suppose "safe" is a pretty nebulous concept when it comes to holodecks. Broadly you'd want to ensure that the occupants don't come to harm, but unless you want every surface you walk on to feel like foam rubber you'd need to have some threshold velocity of someone falling beyond which the safety protocols kick in to make the ground safe and soften it for the impact, and plenty of similar edge cases where something can go from "safe" to "unsafe" depending on context. The holodeck isn't just used for recreation of course, if you're mocking up a replica of a sword discovered on an archaeological dig you want to replicate, would suck if the safeties kept kicking in to make sure the sword wasn't dangerously sharp. Similarly with having a circuit breaker, if I remember right in The Big Goodbye, Wesley mentions that if they cut power while people are inside the holodeck they could cease to exist. Holodecks are supposed to be a mix of replicated matter and forcefields, presumably abruptly cutting power might trigger the automated holomatter clean-up protocols. It's also possible the forcefield emitters wouldn't react to well to having their power supply suddenly cut, would be a shame to accidentally bisect the entire bridge crew because emitter 14-b experienced an overvolt malfunction when you suddenly killed power to the whole system.
Overall it's amazing people are willing to step into holodecks rather than just sticking with a VR headset and treadmill.
It's entirely believable though
Ok, VR headset, treadmill and force feedback codpiece, all the functionality of a holodeck and no chance of Moriarty blowing up your ship :biggrin:
One of the best parts of how LD Mariner uses the holodeck? Leg Day! Seriously, most of the time we see the crew sitting or standing around at their station, yet we know the food they eat is calorie counted and they've got to have some physical exercise programs, so why not have the holodeck be the best thing there is for it? Sure, sometimes you want to have that noir fantasy played out, but there has to be regular usage where it's like, i need to go for a run and forget about depowering some couplings.
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Judging how people in places like Vic's or Fair Haven can be father apart than the room physically allows, there's no guarantee that the image of a person you see corresponds to their physical location in the room, you could both be inside of holographic bubbles until you're back in interaction range.
kind of like Rick and Morty where everyone is on an individual treadmill.
There's a tumblr/reddit/facebook/something post somewhere about humans being the Mad Scientists of the galaxy, freaking the Vulcans and Klingons out because they do insane things like plugging one warp core into another warp core to make them go faster. (I'm sure someone can find it and post it)
I can see the holodeck being developed like that:
"So, remember we lent you the holographic landscape generator last year, we were wondering if we could have it back? We need it to recreate an archaeological dig site we found."
"Oh, sure. FYI, we made a few copies and messed around with them a little bit. Did you know you can get this thing to generate people as well as landscapes?"
"Yeah, we tried that once. Couldn't get them to do anything other than pre-programmed animations, though. Good luck solving that problem."
"Huh. We just plugged it into an X-Station1440 and wrote an API to let it use it. Check out this Battle of Troy we came up with!"
"What?!"
I don't think they have ever explicitly said, but that one race that they met in Enterprise where Trip tripped out on their atmosphere, then stuck his fingers in some crystals in a bowl and managed to get pregnant had some variation off a holodeck.
So if you take that as canon, it's entirely possible the answer is "we didn't invent it, someone gave it to us/we reverse-engineered it."
EDIT: yup, that's the one, thanks Hydropolo.
Dunno if this is the right one, but here's a collection of some of the stuff.
https://www.tor.com/2016/10/17/the-answer-to-why-humans-are-so-central-in-star-trek/
Uuuuggg, Thinking abou that makes my brain hurt even more. The only way I could see it working would be for everyone and everything to be projected in a tiny cube around each player with cubes merging when players get close enough. Almost like hitboxes in video games. But the perspective shift would have to take place seamlessly to not be noticed. And if it worked like that, how could Wesley have fallen into the water or Picard shot up the Brogs. And now my brain hurts again.
Yup, that's got all the posts in it
Nothing about the holodeck as presented makes sense. It's fine though.
The problems basically all crop up the instant you have more then 1 person in there though.
The only time a Holodeck ever made sense was in Lower Decks with the testing pods.
Actually I imagine most computers can do all that automatically in the tng era
Automated QA testing is a technological marvel right up until Vulcan Love Slave #37 has half the senior staff locked in an elaborately scripted death battle she calls the Thirsty Games and the other half locked outside at least two commercial breaks away from figuring out how to open the door.
Also you can trust me when I tell you that someone has to write the automated tests. And that will go about as well as this ^. Or you can let the computer automated the automated tests. But then someone has to automated the computers automation of the automated tests. And..so on. It all ends in sentient holograms and Badgey, is what I'm saying. It's too complex not to.
As an aside though, my QA sensibility is offended by the existence of safety protocols you can turn off. Just bake that stuff right in there. There is no good reason whatsoever to turn that stuff off, so it should not be an option.
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I think you're making quite an assumption in that the safety protocols actually exist and aren't just a commented block of empty code labelled "develop before release".
Edit: it was the Binars, and it looks like my memory is wrong, the line wasn’t important enough to make the plot summary, or the line existed but was a lie and I didn’t realize it.
I'm reminded of a friend's theory regarding synthetics built by Weyland-Yutani (e.g. Bishop) : they're programmed to say that of course they're Three-Laws-compliant, but not to actually be.
Minuet existed directly due to the Binars and Riker says she's more advanced than anything he's seen in the Holodeck before, so there clearly was some upgrading going on, but once the Binars are gone so is Minuet so... :question:
Nobody ever says it but I'm totally happy just rolling with the idea that the Enterprise holodecks are weird because they have some extra space wizardry plugged in that the crew don't fully understand, and that this culminates in the ship giving birth to the alien computer baby in that one really weird season 7 episode.
which presumably goes off to "learn all that is learnable" and then make its way to Bynaus.
The only one I can think of is a Voyager sim where they're testing their new slipstream drive and it's able to accurately predict that the outcome will be unpredictable- actually strike that, they quit before it would have had to simulate them actually dying.
I feel like I remember someone being on the holodeck, them "dying", and it terminating the program back to the empty holodeck.
As I can't remember the show*, character, or circumstance, I'm not 100% sure I'm not imagining remembering it.
* or even if it was Star Trek, and not another show that used similar technology.
Nah, he had it on level 0 difficulty and slew the monster.
Overall it's amazing people are willing to step into holodecks rather than just sticking with a VR headset and treadmill.
It's entirely believable though
Ok, VR headset, treadmill and force feedback codpiece, all the functionality of a holodeck and no chance of Moriarty blowing up your ship :biggrin:
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Empirical evidence implies that once five federation combadges on one is when it gets really fuckey.