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Turning Out a New Third Age [WoT TV show]

SleepSleep Registered User regular
edited October 28 in Debate and/or Discourse
The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the 1st Age by some, an Age we all live in a wind rose above the hills of Prague. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning...

So there's a little story that was written some 20 plus years ago by the name of the Eye of the World by a man with the name of James Oliver Rigney Jr. Working under the pseudonym Robert Jordan. This novel would go on to have some good reception and spawn just a few sequel volumes. It is a little story of brave knights and scheming scoundrels, and how they are often one and the same. In a land of monsters and magic users, and really fuckin fraught gender politics. Many smoothed skirts, and pulled braids, and crushed goblets. Armies clashing, heroes on journeys, people getting erased from time, it's got it all.

Well this little story got picked up a few years ago by of all companies amazon to be made into a tv show, cause Bezos needs to eat up HBOs GoT brunch.

A trailer or two





an article:
https://www.gq.com/story/inside-amazons-wheel-of-time

Talk about the TV show and/or books here.

spoiler policy:
Since there will be a lot of people watching this who haven't read the books, and possibly also later picking up the books
-closed, and labeled, spoilers for books, at least as far as things that have not yet happened in the show, or got cut, or were substantially different.
-closed spoilers for the most recent episode, open for previous week's content
-exception being the first 3 episodes which all drop at once, so closed for the first weekend to hopefully not trip anybody popping in, but not long enough its a full week of spoiler tags.

Sleep on
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Posts

  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    I assumed it was coming out week to week like everything else nowadays. Is that not true?

    I'm also excited by this and hope it actually turns out well.

    Rich on Beer - I talk about drinking beer. You read about it.
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited October 27
    Ah first three drop on the 19th, then week to week thanks.

    Sleep on
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Ah first three drop on the 19th, then week to week thanks.

    Okay that's what I expected. I mean, I will still be behind because I tend to wait until shows are done airing before watching them, but it's good to know either way.

    Rich on Beer - I talk about drinking beer. You read about it.
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited October 27
    For spoiler policy, what I've been thinking is:
    Since there will be a lot of people watching this who haven't read the books, and possibly also later picking up the books
    -closed, and labeled, spoilers for books, at least as far as things that have not yet happened in the show, or got cut, or were substantially different.
    -closed spoilers for the most recent episode, open for previous week's content
    -exception being the first 3 episodes which all drop at once, so maybe closed for day of to hopefully not trip anybody popping in, and open starting the next day so we don't have a week worth of nothing but spoiler tags.

    Tofystedeth on
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    Elvenshae
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Anyway I'm extremely excited for this. I first read the series in 4th grade back when there were only 4 or 5 books out. I basically borrowed one or two of them from a guy at church with a huge sci-fi and fantasy collection every week and then traded them in for the next one the next week like it was a library. I did that basically multiple times a year, reading the whole series every time a new book came out up until books 9 or 10, when you know they got kinda bogged down. Then when Sanderson picked it up to finish the series I did so again. I don't think there's any book I've read as many times except for Dune and possibly a couple of the old Star Wars EU novels I was into as a kid.

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    MancingtomElvenshaeGnome-Interruptusstopgap
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited October 27
    I just hope they don't butcher the story like Dresden Files and Sword of Truth etc. There's plenty to trim out, but please let them not mess with it too much.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
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  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    edited October 27
    Can we at least agree that the best character is Bela?

    (I'm trying not to get too psyched for this but its very difficult tbh)

    Snicketysnick on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Can we at least agree that the best character is Bela?

    Not even worth mentioning. You can't have a long discussion on a topic everyone agrees on. I'd be deeply mistrustful of anyone who didn't like Bela.

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    MancingtomSnicketysnickElvenshaeVishNub
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    I first came in here to say goddammit, @Sleep, I wanted to make the thread :P . Also, this is great and you are great.
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I just hope they don't butcher the story like Dresden Files and Sword of Truth etc. There's plenty to trim out, but please let them not mess with it too much.



    The quick shots at 0:31 here convinced me that the people behind the camera get the books in a way your average Hollywood/television type wouldn't. It's not a guarantee it'll be good, but I doubt the show will fail because the team doesn't understand the series.

    Spoilers for book symbolism:
    The fact that they knew to signal the Dragon's Fang and Flame of Tar Valon tells me they know the books beyond surface plot points.

    The fact they were able to signal them in such good shots tells me they know what they're doing.

    Elvenshae
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited October 27
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.

    Reynolds on
    uyvfOQy.png
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.

    of course it's not called that, what kind of brain dead creatures would name their planet 'dirt'?

    MancingtomSleepHappylilElfElvenshaeFencingsaxSnicketysnickGnome-InterruptusRhesus PositiveShadowhopeBlackDragon480KanaMoridin889marajiKayne Red Robechrono_traveller
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    I mean, it’s
    one of the five Powers,
    right?

    MancingtomGnome-InterruptusKana
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.

    Spoilers for All Books:
    The books aren't coy that it's a distant future/distant past of our world, but they usually refer to "the world" instead of calling it "the Earth." I'm guessing the potential change here (which may just be for the trailer) is for dialogue flow.

    Show speculation based on above spoiler:
    The allusions to our time will be even clearer in a visual medium. For example, there won't be any ambiguity about the Mercedes-Benz logo in Tanchico.

    It'll probably be product placement.

    38thDoeElvenshaeJragghenshrykeShadowhopespool32Havelock2.0
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited October 28
    Okay, finally watched the new trailers.

    Holy shit those look amazing.

    I'm really hoping that the first episode opens up the same way the first book does, which is seriously one of my favorite passages in fiction.
    The maddened Dragon walking around his ruined house, stepping over the corpse of his wife without even noticing her body, all the while chatting amicably with his visitor until the visitor forces him to SEE. Pulling on the Source until it becomes a column of light, burning him and everything else down to the bedrock and below and raising up Dragonmount with Tar Valon in the background.

    The Wheel of Time turns ...

    Elvenshae on
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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Well, the good news is, that scene has definitely been filmed before...

    uyvfOQy.png
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Yeah I think they already said they were not going to do that, unless it's misdirection.

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    Sleep
  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    I got to like book 5 and gave up

    I should give them another shot. Excited to see this show though, I really loved some of the stuff in the books.

    Twitch Streaming basically all week
    SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    maraji
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    My guess is we get the prologue scene around the midpoint of the season. The trailers focus on a lot on the mystery of which of the Emond's Field 5 is the Dragon Reborn—it makes sense to place the scene after the audience has some background on what's going on.

    Show Speculation w/Spoilers for All Books:
    The climax of Eye of the World has some early installment weirdness stuff that doesn't match how channeling and Tel'aran'rhiod work in the rest of the series. You can fix that by having Lews Therin appear to Rand when seizes the clean saidin in the Eye. That way, you don't waste an actor one scene and you give the audience a head start on the idea that Lews can appear to Rand.

    I'm thinking Season 2 covers Book 1 and the first act of Book 2.

    Speculation for Season 1 end point:
    The last episode features the battle at the Eye of the World and ends with Fain stealing the Horn of Valere.

    Then Season 2 covers the rest of Book 2 and Book 3.

    Speculation for Season 2, spoilers for Books 2 and 3:
    Someone on Reddit theorized they might combine the Battle of Falme and the Fall of the Stone. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

    The climaxes of Books 2 and 3 have some key points in common: Egwene being captured by evil channelers and Rand fighting Ishamael while accepting that he is the Dragon Reborn. While the books have nuance that keeps those events from being copies of each other, that might be lost on a tv audience watching a single 8-episode season. Putting them together means you can focus on building up to one Big Ass Ending instead of two.

    Now, they may indeed keep them separate and that'll work, too, but it's neat to speculate

    Shadowhope
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I just hope they don't butcher the story like Sword of Truth .

    To be fair, given that source material, what we got was goddamn incredible.
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    I believe the canonical name of the planet that fandom settled on was Randland. We should just roll with that.

    MancingtomElvenshaeFencingsaxApogeeHydropoloRhesus PositiveShadowhopeKanaMahnmutMoridin889marajiNitsua
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Anyway, this trailer got a friend who I haven't talked to for literally years from a wot book site to text me, so this show is already a winner from my perspective.
    I used to be effectively 5th in the hierarchy in control of wotmania

    MancingtomiguanacusTofystedethElvenshaeCidTheSquidRhesus Positivephysi_marcstopgapWhelkchrono_travellerNitsua
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited October 28
    Yeah there's already been showrunner word on a few things that indicate we're probably not seeing the eye this first season actually.

    Sleep on
  • ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Yeah there's already been showrunner word on a few things that indicate we're probably not seeing the eye this first season actually.

    Based on some of the lack of casting announcements for certain characters, I’d guess we get to
    Leaving Shadar Logoth and the party separated.

    Depending on how quickly they go possibly getting as far as some of them reaching Caemlyn.

    As you might guess I’m super excited for the show. Been a fan since HS over 20 years ago (and been using this Screenname since, lol)

    ElvenshaeApogeeGnome-Interruptus
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Yeah there's already been showrunner word on a few things that indicate we're probably not seeing the eye this first season actually.

    Based on some of the lack of casting announcements for certain characters, I’d guess we get to
    Leaving Shadar Logoth and the party separated.

    Depending on how quickly they go possibly getting as far as some of them reaching Caemlyn.

    As you might guess I’m super excited for the show. Been a fan since HS over 20 years ago (and been using this Screenname since, lol)

    Plot predictions based on characters
    it's weird cause they have casting for loial and obvious shots from the borderlands. However the lack of bayle domon, elyas machera, or the tinkers makes it seem like you could maybe be correct. Though that would mean that one of the trailers potentially contains one of the final scenes from the season.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    My prediction for the end of the season
    The Eye of the World, then in the denouement, Fain steals the horn. Possibly them setting to chase.

    Re the book one prologue: If they do it, I think
    It'd be funny if they stuck it at the beginning of season 2, if it starts as above. In the book is weird and disconnected from most of everything.
    Shift it a little bit and you get
    The Dragon destroying his entire family and then himself, creating Dragonmount.
    Smash cut to "So anyway, as we were saying at the end of last season, you're the Dragon reborn."

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.

    Spoilers for All Books:
    The books aren't coy that it's a distant future/distant past of our world, but they usually refer to "the world" instead of calling it "the Earth." I'm guessing the potential change here (which may just be for the trailer) is for dialogue flow.

    Show speculation based on above spoiler:
    The allusions to our time will be even clearer in a visual medium. For example, there won't be any ambiguity about the Mercedes-Benz logo in Tanchico.

    It'll probably be product placement.

    Specifically:
    we are the First Age. The Second Age begins with the discovery of the One Power.

    MancingtomShadowhopeBlackDragon480
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.

    Spoilers for All Books:
    The books aren't coy that it's a distant future/distant past of our world, but they usually refer to "the world" instead of calling it "the Earth." I'm guessing the potential change here (which may just be for the trailer) is for dialogue flow.

    Show speculation based on above spoiler:
    The allusions to our time will be even clearer in a visual medium. For example, there won't be any ambiguity about the Mercedes-Benz logo in Tanchico.

    It'll probably be product placement.

    Specifically:
    we are the First Age. The Second Age begins with the discovery of the One Power.

    Yep, and it’s implied
    that the First Age ended with the Cold War going hot—the giants Mosk and Merk throwing spears of fire that could reach around the world.

    My personal theory is that decades/centuries of radiation-induced genetic mutation led to discovery/re-discovery of channeling.

    Question: what is the policy on leaked images and the like?

    Gnome-InterruptusShadowhopeKanaMahnmut
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.

    Spoilers for All Books:
    The books aren't coy that it's a distant future/distant past of our world, but they usually refer to "the world" instead of calling it "the Earth." I'm guessing the potential change here (which may just be for the trailer) is for dialogue flow.

    Show speculation based on above spoiler:
    The allusions to our time will be even clearer in a visual medium. For example, there won't be any ambiguity about the Mercedes-Benz logo in Tanchico.

    It'll probably be product placement.

    Specifically:
    we are the First Age. The Second Age begins with the discovery of the One Power.

    Yep, and it’s implied
    that the First Age ended with the Cold War going hot—the giants Mosk and Merk throwing spears of fire that could reach around the world.

    My personal theory is that decades/centuries of radiation-induced genetic mutation led to discovery/re-discovery of channeling.

    Question: what is the policy on leaked images and the like?

    Where is that part implied?

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited October 28
    Huh I always thought we were somewhere else before the first age because of the
    portal stones and glass columns being from the first age and us not at all having those abilities

    I changed my op cause yeah looking it up that's totally the author's aim that we live in the first age.

    Sleep on
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.

    Spoilers for All Books:
    The books aren't coy that it's a distant future/distant past of our world, but they usually refer to "the world" instead of calling it "the Earth." I'm guessing the potential change here (which may just be for the trailer) is for dialogue flow.

    Show speculation based on above spoiler:
    The allusions to our time will be even clearer in a visual medium. For example, there won't be any ambiguity about the Mercedes-Benz logo in Tanchico.

    It'll probably be product placement.

    Specifically:
    we are the First Age. The Second Age begins with the discovery of the One Power.

    Yep, and it’s implied
    that the First Age ended with the Cold War going hot—the giants Mosk and Merk throwing spears of fire that could reach around the world.

    My personal theory is that decades/centuries of radiation-induced genetic mutation led to discovery/re-discovery of channeling.

    Question: what is the policy on leaked images and the like?

    Where is that part implied?
    Mosk and Merk are mentioned in passing during Eye of the World and The Shadow Rising.

    It’s fair to read it as just another distorted legend like “Glenn riding to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire,” but the First Age ending in a cataclysm would fit what we see with the Second and the Third.

    The events of the series are a much softer apocalypse than the Breaking, but it still sees virtually every cultural and political norm shattered across the known world.

    ShadowhopeBlackDragon480KanaMoridin889
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 28
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.

    Spoilers for All Books:
    The books aren't coy that it's a distant future/distant past of our world, but they usually refer to "the world" instead of calling it "the Earth." I'm guessing the potential change here (which may just be for the trailer) is for dialogue flow.

    Show speculation based on above spoiler:
    The allusions to our time will be even clearer in a visual medium. For example, there won't be any ambiguity about the Mercedes-Benz logo in Tanchico.

    It'll probably be product placement.

    Specifically:
    we are the First Age. The Second Age begins with the discovery of the One Power.

    Yep, and it’s implied
    that the First Age ended with the Cold War going hot—the giants Mosk and Merk throwing spears of fire that could reach around the world.

    My personal theory is that decades/centuries of radiation-induced genetic mutation led to discovery/re-discovery of channeling.

    Question: what is the policy on leaked images and the like?

    Where is that part implied?
    Mosk and Merk are mentioned in passing during Eye of the World and The Shadow Rising.

    It’s fair to read it as just another distorted legend like “Glenn riding to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire,” but the First Age ending in a cataclysm would fit what we see with the Second and the Third.

    The events of the series are a much softer apocalypse than the Breaking, but it still sees virtually every cultural and political norm shattered across the known world.
    Mosk and Merc are obviously old myths about the Cold War but there's nothing that says the Cold War went hot. And the books were written close enough to or after the Cold War ended anyway.

    I'm also pretty sure RJ confirmed at some point in a Q&A or something that the Second Age officially began with the discovery of the One Power, but I can't track down the source for that now.

    I'm also pretty sure at some point he says that every age beings/ends with some kind of large upheaval but not necessarily an apocalypse like we see between the Second and Third age. I mean, for all the shit that goes down at the end of the Third Age, it's mostly political and social upheaval

    shryke on
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    You can sort of deduce the beginning/end of the season based on the latest trailer drop.

    Trailer and book new spring (0?)/1/2 stuff:
    We got some definite New Spring stuff in here, seeing Moiraine do her three Oaths. There also some shots of what looks like the Aiel War, so probably something in there with finding a baby on Dragonmount.
    There's that panning shot of a brown fortress, which they've confirmed as Fal Dara. Along with shots of top-knotted soldier people, so definitely at least getting up there by the end.

    I think they're skipping Caemlyn entirely since we don't have any casting for any of those characters. Which is fine really, the royal siblings are just as easy to introduce in season 2 when Egwene/Nynaeve/Mat make it to Tar Valon. They don't really impact much Eye of the World plot stuff at all.

    SnicketysnickApogeeShadowhopeMahnmutMoridin889
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Do they ever actually call their world 'Earth' in the books, like she did in that clip?

    Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.

    Spoilers for All Books:
    The books aren't coy that it's a distant future/distant past of our world, but they usually refer to "the world" instead of calling it "the Earth." I'm guessing the potential change here (which may just be for the trailer) is for dialogue flow.

    Show speculation based on above spoiler:
    The allusions to our time will be even clearer in a visual medium. For example, there won't be any ambiguity about the Mercedes-Benz logo in Tanchico.

    It'll probably be product placement.

    Specifically:
    we are the First Age. The Second Age begins with the discovery of the One Power.

    Yep, and it’s implied
    that the First Age ended with the Cold War going hot—the giants Mosk and Merk throwing spears of fire that could reach around the world.

    My personal theory is that decades/centuries of radiation-induced genetic mutation led to discovery/re-discovery of channeling.

    Question: what is the policy on leaked images and the like?

    Where is that part implied?
    Mosk and Merk are mentioned in passing during Eye of the World and The Shadow Rising.

    It’s fair to read it as just another distorted legend like “Glenn riding to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire,” but the First Age ending in a cataclysm would fit what we see with the Second and the Third.

    The events of the series are a much softer apocalypse than the Breaking, but it still sees virtually every cultural and political norm shattered across the known world.
    Mosk and Merc are obviously old myths about the Cold War but there's nothing that says the Cold War went hot. And the books were written close enough to or after the Cold War ended anyway.

    I'm also pretty sure RJ confirmed at some point in a Q&A or something that the Second Age officially began with the discovery of the One Power, but I can't track down the source for that now.

    I'm also pretty sure at some point he says that every age beings/ends with some kind of large upheaval but not necessarily an apocalypse like we see between the Second and Third age. I mean, for all the shit that goes down at the end of the Third Age, it's mostly political and social upheaval
    Like I said, it’s reasonable to draw multiple conclusions from what little we know about the First Age.

    Jordan started writing the series in 1984 when it looked like the Cold War might go on for longer than another 7 years.

    https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-genesis-of-wheel-of-time.html?m=1

    In an early draft of the story, the First Age indeed ended with a nuclear war. However, that’s not clear in what was published.

    Also super interesting: he got the original idea for the series while DMing D&D.

  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    Lorek wrote: »
    You can sort of deduce the beginning/end of the season based on the latest trailer drop.

    Trailer and book new spring (0?)/1/2 stuff:
    We got some definite New Spring stuff in here, seeing Moiraine do her three Oaths. There also some shots of what looks like the Aiel War, so probably something in there with finding a baby on Dragonmount.
    There's that panning shot of a brown fortress, which they've confirmed as Fal Dara. Along with shots of top-knotted soldier people, so definitely at least getting up there by the end.

    I think they're skipping Caemlyn entirely since we don't have any casting for any of those characters. Which is fine really, the royal siblings are just as easy to introduce in season 2 when Egwene/Nynaeve/Mat make it to Tar Valon. They don't really impact much Eye of the World plot stuff at all.

    Talking about Season 2 casting...
    I believe there was confirmed casting for Elyane in the last week or so. She's confirmed for Season 2. We've also seen lots of images of the Waygate being out in the open, and not underground. So they're using a different waygate than the one under Caemlyn.

    As for thoughts on the end of Season 1.
    The new trailer has a scene of what basically has to be the Lord of Fal Dara (Agelmar). Regal looking guy with a topnot. So they at least get to Fal Dara. I hope they do the Eye of the World. I can see how they could substantially change the fight with the two Forsaken there, as that was honestly a bit random in the books.

    Thoughts for different Ages and going from one to the other..
    I totally missed anything indicating that this World is Earth. It must have been super subtle. Not like Shannara where they basically beat you over the head with it.

    Smrtnik
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited October 28
    Selner wrote: »
    Thoughts for different Ages and going from one to the other..
    I totally missed anything indicating that this World is Earth. It must have been super subtle. Not like Shannara where they basically beat you over the head with it.

    There's hints sprinkled a few places, but a huge chunk are actually in the beginning of book 1, if you have it on hand.
    When Thom is basically selling his gleeman act to the villagers in the beginning he mentions a bunch of famous stories, many of which are corruptions of current real world stuff
    Glenn flying to the moon on a eagle with a belly of fire (John Glenn)
    Anla the Wise Councilor (Ann Landers)
    Merk and Mosk, Giants with flaming spears they hurled at each other across the world (America and Moscow and Cold War/nuclear missile race)
    Etc

    Though whether it's after one cycle of the wheel, or many, or if it's stuff leaking in from different versions of the pattern which you can access through the portal stones is also a possibility.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Wow, I do not remember basically any of this.

    My only hope is that the gender politics weirdness is toned down

    38thDoeSmrtnikMahnmutAntinumericRanlin
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Selner wrote: »
    Thoughts for different Ages and going from one to the other..
    I totally missed anything indicating that this World is Earth. It must have been super subtle. Not like Shannara where they basically beat you over the head with it.

    There's hints sprinkled a few places, but a huge chunk are actually in the beginning of book 1, if you have it on hand.
    When Thom is basically selling his gleeman act to the villagers in the beginning he mentions a bunch of famous stories, many of which are corruptions of current real world stuff
    Glenn flying to the moon on a eagle with a belly of fire (John Glenn)
    Anla the Wise Councilor (Ann Landers)
    Merk and Mosk, Giants with flaming spears they hurled at each other across the world (America and Moscow and Cold War/nuclear missile race)
    Etc

    Though whether it's after one cycle of the wheel, or many, or if it's stuff leaking in from different versions of the pattern which you can access through the portal stones is also a possibility.
    There's also a giant satellite dish mentioned. And a few other things.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Wow, I do not remember basically any of this.

    My only hope is that the gender politics weirdness is toned down

    Yeah he was definitely trying to do a sexism is bad thing, but the execution was... lacking.

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  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Wow, I do not remember basically any of this.

    My only hope is that the gender politics weirdness is toned down

    Yeah he was definitely trying to do a sexism is bad thing, but the execution was... lacking.

    It's a little funky. Every time a female character is introduced, the book talks about how attractive they are and what it would be like to kiss them / dance with them.
    The book talks about how bad sexism is, and the proceeds to be massively sexist. It's super jarring.

    ApogeeAntinumeric
  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    I sunk a ton of time into reading these and then rereading them when the new ones finally came out but I dropped off somewhere in college. This guy really needed an editor. There was a lot of reused material in the books, like starting every book with a long section about the wind and the wheel. From reading interviews with other authors I guess they are pressured to make every book approachable to people who haven't read any of the series but that seems insane to me. Who would think to start reading in book 6 skipping the first 6,000 pages or so. Ultimately the best thing that came out of the Wheel of Time is this person's summaries.

    https://three-degrees-below-social.tumblr.com/post/107520367078/isams-wheel-of-time-summary-the-eye-of-the
    Lanfear: I’m just your average flawlessly beautiful woman trapped in an alternate world. This is my disquise, which is not quite as flawlessly beautiful as I actually am.

    Rand: Sounds good to me. Join us.

    Lanfear: I like powerful men. My favorite is the Great Lord of the Dark.

    Rand: Did you say something?

    Lanfear: No. Go Light.

    ————
    Moiraine: My brilliant theory about The Prophecy of the Dragon is that you need to wage war against Illian, because ‘The People of the Dragon’ obviously are the people of Tear. Also, you need to wear a yellow pointed party hat, because that is my understanding of the line “He will bring war.”

    Rand: I have a different interpretation of The Prophecy of the Dragon.

    Moiraine: What would you know about The Prophecy of the Dragon? You’re merely the Dragon Reborn, while I am a busybody.

    Rand: You haven’t been helping me out a lot lately. You didn’t give me any advice in Fal Dara – instead, you ignored me, and after Falme, you said I should simply “wait for the Pattern.”

    Moiraine: That’s what good advisors do. Give advice once a year. And the advice that we do give is poorly thought-out and incorrect.

    Rand: My instinct tells me I should go my own way again.

    Moiriane: That will lead to disaster.

    Rand: It was a disaster when I went to Tear, and took Callandor?

    Moiraine: Yes. That was a disaster because it made me look like an idiot for not advising you to do anything, then being angry when you did something.

    Rand: Well, these are disastrous times.

    ————-
    Rand: Too bad no one killed Couladin when we had the chance.

    Rhuarc: That would violate ji’e’toh.

    Rand: ji’e’toh restricts you from stopping madmen warlords?

    Rhuarc: Yes. The rule is madmen warlords can try to kill you, and everyone near you, and everyone else who isn’t near you, and everyone they know, and everyone they thought was looking at them funny.

    Rand: What does ji’e’toh let me do?

    Rhuarc: You can mutter under your breath.

    Rand: Shaido dogs.

    Rhuarc: Now you’re getting it.

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited October 28
    On the one hand yeah toning down some of the gender stuff is like an important thing they pretty much need to do, but on the other hand it's kinda central to the entire setting in that the absolutely fuckin dire gender essentialism implications of magic are why the world is mostly matriarchal.

    Doesn't really feel spoilerish to reveal that in the books male and female magic users draw their magics from different pools and the male pool is poisonous and makes you insane if you use it (you learn this shit in the prologue). This should immediately start throwing up flags for you here in 2021 as maybe a bit of a problem. I generally just remind myself that, after actually examining the text, a key implication is that the only major actual gender essentialisms in the book are the totally made up rules of magic. The implications of that being that gender essentialism is made up bullshit. Like in the book it regularly makes a joke of a character saying something grossly gender essentialist or sexist, and then the story almost immediately disagreeing with the character's assertion by showing someone bucking that suggested norm, or telling that character to fuck right off. Excepting dealing with magic, and even there it regularly insists that the greatest feats of magic are performed when everyone works together and gender essentialist behavioral definitions are eschewed (circles and linking).

    As others have said the books try very hard to do an anti sexism, but like it was being written by a dude born in the 40s, in a medium that was at the time heavily targeted towards young men at the time it was written, so he probably wasn't the perfect person to try and do that and failed regularly, but it's always kinda visible that he was trying even oof it didn't come out right.

    I do have hopes for the tv series to deal with it a bit better in some ways, like I think I've heard somewhere that they're going to take the step to make at least egwene, if not all 5 of the two rivers folk moraine takes, ta'veren. Though maybe I heard wrong.

    Like there's definitely some super fuckin dire stuff that can absolutely get cut without any trouble, but some of it is kinda core to why the world of wheel of time is the way it is, and I think if they lean into that only being because of the totality bullshit magic system they can moderately thread the needle on it, and hopefully better than Jordan managed. I still expect to see folks pissed about gender essentialist themes represented by the magic system though, and I absolutely don't begrudge anyone observing the major issues it represents.

    Sleep on
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