"hey i want you to do this, this and this. if you promise to do that i'll vote for you"
"no lol"
"okay, well i'm voting for you anyway"
or the even better alternative!
"hey i want you to do this, this and this. if you promise to do that i'll vote for you"
"yes i promise to do those things"
six months pass
"hey how about doing those things you promised to do"
"no lol"
"okay well you have my vote again when you're up for reelection"
My senators seem eager to do the things I voted for them to do. I am pleased with them. However, there are TWO in their party who do not want to do what I want them to do.
How would witholding my vote from my senators help?
Are you enjoying this?
Do you have any solutions to offer with all of the snark?
No, I'm fucking terrified. I'm scared that people will vote the Republicans back in and they give every impression of wanting me dead. I'm not enjoying this at all. It seems like Germany before the 2nd world war where the choice was the Nazis or the lousy regular politicians, and everyone is moving towards Nazi.
Not to tangent this too hard, but I’d recommend Paxton’s Anatomy of Fascism in this regard
I mean it won’t assuage a single one of your worries in this regard, but in large part you’ll see the parallels between then and today, particularly the way moderate political leadership attempts to stymie the left by playing the harder right off against them, because the harder right is also interested, at the time, in preserving the sociopolitical hierarchies of the status quo.
It’s part of why I look at how the Democrats handle their left flank and the Republicans with a sense of abject horror because it feels often like they’re more than happy to remix those steps to the very same destination because god forbid anything encroach on their personal power in society
No, I'm fucking terrified. I'm scared that people will vote the Republicans back in and they give every impression of wanting me dead. I'm not enjoying this at all. It seems like Germany before the 2nd world war where the choice was the Nazis or the lousy regular politicians, and everyone is moving towards Nazi.
I believe you're scared. The situation is very scary! I think that your fear is driving you to defend authority figures in the Dem party because they seem to be the most powerful people around who are on "your side" and the idea that they might just really suck at their jobs makes you feel completely exposed to the barbarous future.
Unfortunately the truth is they really suck at their jobs and you are completely exposed to the barbarous future.
So if you were back in 1930s Germany would you be moving towards leaving electoral politics and letting the Nazis have their turn? Because I feel that is what is happening. Everyone is feeling that the fascists are inevitable so we might as well let them have a go.
i'm not a senator, it's not on me to answer that question
like that is my whole point. we're here talking about the details of why shit can't get passed and your average voter just does not care, they'll just see the result and say why bother. they'll especially say why bother in places where the republicans have already made it extremely hard to vote, on purpose
what i would like the party in general to do is give people a reason to vote for them, because as much as i detest the democrats the republicans are usually worse being that when they get voted in they somehow can actually do shit
You recognize this is an impossible situation that Democratic leadership cannot resolve, but you want them to answer how they will resolve it anyway...
And if the incredible suffering and corruption of the Trump administration isn't enough of a reason to vote Dem, then I'm not sure there ever will be a sufficient reason for you.
Really, what shit did the Trump administration actually accomplish while holding all three branches? They had the longest shutdown in US history, as well as the most shutdowns. Most anything that could be construed as shit they got done was either through their one reconciliation a year or through executive orders that were constantly under legal attack and frequently overturned. Really, the accomplishments of the Trump administration were due to the Republicans ignoring the rule of law, not from following it.
how will the hopeless situation not become hopeless when the republicans will use whatever means they can to push their agenda through but the democrats will not?
also i mentioned this earlier in the thread but giving up on electoral politics is not giving up on politics in general, that's a dangerous, kind of shitty conflation. nobody's wallowing, i'm trying to understand why a situation i see clearly for one thing other people seem to see clearly for another completely opposite thing
Let's just accelerate our democracy right into oblivion. Because anarchy is the endpoint of both parties ignoring the rule of law.
What is it you see so clearly that others do not? That Democrats are hamstrung by a belief in government? That the system means that in certain specific cases, such as the one we're in currently, that one or two individuals can wield a lot of power? Welcome to a two-party democracy and math.
Claiming to see clearly while at the same time stating you don't have an answer to the problem clearly tells me that you don't see the situation clearly.
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
No, I'm fucking terrified. I'm scared that people will vote the Republicans back in and they give every impression of wanting me dead. I'm not enjoying this at all. It seems like Germany before the 2nd world war where the choice was the Nazis or the lousy regular politicians, and everyone is moving towards Nazi.
I believe you're scared. The situation is very scary! I think that your fear is driving you to defend authority figures in the Dem party because they seem to be the most powerful people around who are on "your side" and the idea that they might just really suck at their jobs makes you feel completely exposed to the barbarous future.
Unfortunately the truth is they really suck at their jobs and you are completely exposed to the barbarous future.
So if you were back in 1930s Germany would you be moving towards leaving electoral politics and letting the Nazis have their turn? Because I feel that is what is happening. Everyone is feeling that the fascists are inevitable so we might as well let them have a go.
And it scares me.
I have a child.
I vote a straight Democratic ticket in every election. The problem isn't that I'm not voting for Democrats. The problem is that the Democrats suck so much that they only people who vote for them are already-engaged, already-aware people who know that the Republicans are monstrous. And I'm not going to stop telling the truth about that because it would make the Dems look bad. The Dems are bad and I'm not going to perusade anyone to vote for them by pissing on their leg and saying it's raining.
i'm not a senator, it's not on me to answer that question
like that is my whole point. we're here talking about the details of why shit can't get passed and your average voter just does not care, they'll just see the result and say why bother. they'll especially say why bother in places where the republicans have already made it extremely hard to vote, on purpose
what i would like the party in general to do is give people a reason to vote for them, because as much as i detest the democrats the republicans are usually worse being that when they get voted in they somehow can actually do shit
You recognize this is an impossible situation that Democratic leadership cannot resolve, but you want them to answer how they will resolve it anyway...
And if the incredible suffering and corruption of the Trump administration isn't enough of a reason to vote Dem, then I'm not sure there ever will be a sufficient reason for you.
Really, what shit did the Trump administration actually accomplish while holding all three branches? They had the longest shutdown in US history, as well as the most shutdowns. Most anything that could be construed as shit they got done was either through their one reconciliation a year or through executive orders that were constantly under legal attack and frequently overturned. Really, the accomplishments of the Trump administration were due to the Republicans ignoring the rule of law, not from following it.
how will the hopeless situation not become hopeless when the republicans will use whatever means they can to push their agenda through but the democrats will not?
also i mentioned this earlier in the thread but giving up on electoral politics is not giving up on politics in general, that's a dangerous, kind of shitty conflation. nobody's wallowing, i'm trying to understand why a situation i see clearly for one thing other people seem to see clearly for another completely opposite thing
Let's just accelerate our democracy right into oblivion. Because anarchy is the endpoint of both parties ignoring the rule of law.
What is it you see so clearly that others do not? That Democrats are hamstrung by a belief in government? That the system means that in certain specific cases, such as the one we're in currently, that one or two individuals can wield a lot of power? Welcome to a two-party democracy and math.
Claiming to see clearly while at the same time stating you don't have an answer to the problem clearly tells me that you don't see the situation clearly.
look, it's a choice between the democrats developing the same lack of regard for norms and law that the republicans have and winning fights at least half the time, and the republicans capturing the other branches of the government for at least a generation the way they did with the judiciary. those are the options, you cannot decorum a path to victory against an enemy that doesn't care about decorum
the game has changed, rule of law doesn't apply anymore. the anarchy is already here
"hey i want you to do this, this and this. if you promise to do that i'll vote for you"
"no lol"
"okay, well i'm voting for you anyway"
or the even better alternative!
"hey i want you to do this, this and this. if you promise to do that i'll vote for you"
"yes i promise to do those things"
six months pass
"hey how about doing those things you promised to do"
"no lol"
"okay well you have my vote again when you're up for reelection"
My senators seem eager to do the things I voted for them to do. I am pleased with them. However, there are TWO in their party who do not want to do what I want them to do.
How would witholding my vote from my senators help?
Are you enjoying this?
Do you have any solutions to offer with all of the snark?
No, I'm fucking terrified. I'm scared that people will vote the Republicans back in and they give every impression of wanting me dead. I'm not enjoying this at all. It seems like Germany before the 2nd world war where the choice was the Nazis or the lousy regular politicians, and everyone is moving towards Nazi.
this isn't a binary two-option thing, the main important lesson to take from the nazis taking power was that they wouldn't have been able to do it without feckless lousy regular politicians helping them along, intentionally or not. they took advantage of a weak government where everyone else held themselves constrained by norms and laws while they just did whatever they wanted
you're absolutely right to be scared about this very thing, but the answer is not to keep supporting enablers
I think a lot of times, Americans are taught mainly that the Nazis “took over” Germany, without being taught that “takeover” was literally after years of being empowered and used as a bludgeon against the German Left (their Communist and Socialist parties) by the moderates and conservatives, and then very deliberately being given supreme powers with the Enabling act.
Which, again: it feels like modern moderates and conservatives in government have learned nothing from this, or think that somehow they can play the same the same game to hold the modern Left at bay in order to prevent the social reforms that would infringe on their powers
No, I'm fucking terrified. I'm scared that people will vote the Republicans back in and they give every impression of wanting me dead. I'm not enjoying this at all. It seems like Germany before the 2nd world war where the choice was the Nazis or the lousy regular politicians, and everyone is moving towards Nazi.
I believe you're scared. The situation is very scary! I think that your fear is driving you to defend authority figures in the Dem party because they seem to be the most powerful people around who are on "your side" and the idea that they might just really suck at their jobs makes you feel completely exposed to the barbarous future.
Unfortunately the truth is they really suck at their jobs and you are completely exposed to the barbarous future.
So if you were back in 1930s Germany would you be moving towards leaving electoral politics and letting the Nazis have their turn? Because I feel that is what is happening. Everyone is feeling that the fascists are inevitable so we might as well let them have a go.
And it scares me.
I have a child.
If we had a parliamentary system like 1930s Germany, the Democratic Party as we know it would be split between a progressive social-democrat party on the left more akin to the SPD, and a center-right party analogous to the Centre Party.
One of those voted for the Nazi Enabling Act. The other did not.
The SPD wasn't perfect by any stretch, and their biggest mistake in the final years of the Weimar Republic was opposing the Communist KPD with more fervor than opposing the Nazis. But they still opposed the Nazis.
Had the SPD and the KPD managed to achieve solidarity, the combination would have been the political force with the greatest likelihood of stopping the Nazi ascension.
Today, the fascist right wants to portray BLM and antifa as threats to America, and turn the center against them. We fight this not by enabling the center, but by showing solidarity with the left.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Too many people on the left seem VERY eager for us to give into the fascists. Makes ya think.
Cut it out with this shit, seriously. I am fully aware of the fascist threat. I would love to see the Democrats act like they are, too. Not sure why an armed insurrection literally forcing them out of Congress didn't make them see it but you'd need to ask them about that. I sure as fuck have no idea what they are thinking.
Too many people on the left seem VERY eager for us to give into the fascists. Makes ya think.
Where are you getting this from other than the idea that people are frustrated with the "vote blue no matter who" because it seems to be doing little to stave off said fascists, especially when you consider historical roadmaps.
I would very much like to accelerate our progress on carbon neutrality and green energy. Anybody who doesn't want to accelerate that is stupid, ignorant, insane, or wicked.
Therefore, accelerationism (by your definition) is not always wrong, and glibly posting single-line comments decrying acceleration is not helpful.
Edit: clarified that Incenj is using a different definition of accelerationism
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I would very much like to accelerate our progress on carbon neutrality and green energy. Anybody who doesn't want to accelerate that is stupid, ignorant, insane, or wicked.
Therefore, accelerationism is not always wrong, and glibly posting single-line comments decrying acceleration is not helpful.
Accelerating a system that is headed in a bad direction, which is the entire modern and contemporary context of accelerationism, favors those who are already breaking the system, and who have no qualms on hurting people more.
Progress is a constant clawing against the gravity of selfishness. You are only ever going to accelorate toward the ground.
RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
Come Overwatch with meeeee
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
Saying "withhold your vote from Democrats who fail to advance your goals" is not an accelerationist argument. It is in fact the Civics 101 thing to do.
An accelerationist argument would be something like, "you work to elect Tump because the American empire is evil and a Trump presidency is the fastest way to make it collapse." This is not an argument currently being made by anyone as far as I can tell.
I would very much like to accelerate our progress on carbon neutrality and green energy. Anybody who doesn't want to accelerate that is stupid, ignorant, insane, or wicked.
Therefore, accelerationism is not always wrong, and glibly posting single-line comments decrying acceleration is not helpful.
Accelerating a system that is headed in a bad direction, which is the entire modern and contemporary context of accelerationism, favors those who are already breaking the system, and who have no qualms on hurting people more.
Progress is a constant clawing against the gravity of selfishness. You are only ever going to accelorate toward the ground.
accelerationism in the context you seem to've been using is intentionally making material conditions worse so that workers will be pushed toward revolution. it has a lot more to do with burning food and fuel supplies before they can get to the people who need them than voting for the wrong guy, or discouraging voting altogether. the real thing is in fact morally and tactically indefensible, but the way you're using it you can basically accuse anyone who doesn't actively support the democrats of being accelerationists, which is so broad it's meaningless
I would very much like to accelerate our progress on carbon neutrality and green energy. Anybody who doesn't want to accelerate that is stupid, ignorant, insane, or wicked.
Therefore, accelerationism is not always wrong, and glibly posting single-line comments decrying acceleration is not helpful.
Accelerating a system that is headed in a bad direction, which is the entire modern and contemporary context of accelerationism, favors those who are already breaking the system, and who have no qualms on hurting people more.
Progress is a constant clawing against the gravity of selfishness. You are only ever going to accelorate toward the ground.
How much time do you want for your progress?
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I would very much like to accelerate our progress on carbon neutrality and green energy. Anybody who doesn't want to accelerate that is stupid, ignorant, insane, or wicked.
Therefore, accelerationism is not always wrong, and glibly posting single-line comments decrying acceleration is not helpful.
Accelerating a system that is headed in a bad direction, which is the entire modern and contemporary context of accelerationism, favors those who are already breaking the system, and who have no qualms on hurting people more.
Progress is a constant clawing against the gravity of selfishness. You are only ever going to accelorate toward the ground.
How much time do you want for your progress?
Reality does not conform to my wishes, so unless you have a genie you want to lend me this is a meaningless question.
The big problem with the accelerationism accusation is no one here actually argued for it, not in the leftist sense, not in the rightist sense, not in the “oh god someone take the microphone from Zizek already” sense, but instead was a bomb lobbed into the discussion because it’s a cheap attack that makes critics of the system as it stands seem like absurd, naive and dangerous radicals to the audience, allowing the thrower to attempt to seize the position of the rational actor and political center of the debate
You might as well argue there’s a secret undercurrent of Posadism at play, for the other side thinks the Vulcans will save us
EDIT: For the love of god iOS, please recognize words ending in -ism
I would very much like to accelerate our progress on carbon neutrality and green energy. Anybody who doesn't want to accelerate that is stupid, ignorant, insane, or wicked.
Therefore, accelerationism is not always wrong, and glibly posting single-line comments decrying acceleration is not helpful.
Accelerating a system that is headed in a bad direction, which is the entire modern and contemporary context of accelerationism, favors those who are already breaking the system, and who have no qualms on hurting people more.
Progress is a constant clawing against the gravity of selfishness. You are only ever going to accelorate toward the ground.
How much time do you want for your progress?
Reality does not conform to my wishes, so unless you have a genie you want to lend me this is a meaningless question.
It's actually a quote by James Baldwin, a rhetorical question levied at white moderates who decade after decade seem content to preach patience to black people while ignoring or minimizing the misery inflicted upon them every day.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Now and always is a good time to do "feel good" charity work in community, mutual aid, learn how to perform first aid, learn how to feed your family, maybe start a garden, etc
The big problem with the acceleration isn’t accusation is no one here actually argued it, but instead was a bomb lobbed into the discussion because it’s a cheap attack that makes critics of the system as it stands seem like absurd, naive and dangerous radicals to the audience, allowing the thrower to attempt to seize the position of the rational actor and political center of the debate
Your accusation is incorrect. I will assume it was an honest mistake on your part.
Typhoid was strongly implying a desire for democrats to start ignoring laws because "the game has changed, rule of law doesn't apply anymore. the anarchy is already here".
Re: Accelerationism, I'm pretty sure we did all vote for Biden yeah?
I campaigned hard for Hillary and did not for Biden because my personal mental health no longer allows me to give of myself for people who think so little of me, that said, were I a Georgian I deffo would have volunteered for the senate races
Now and always is a good time to do "feel good" charity work in community, mutual aid, learn how to perform first aid, learn how to feed your family, maybe start a garden, etc
Given that mutual aid:
- does material good
- helps mobilize voters
The big problem with the acceleration isn’t accusation is no one here actually argued it, but instead was a bomb lobbed into the discussion because it’s a cheap attack that makes critics of the system as it stands seem like absurd, naive and dangerous radicals to the audience, allowing the thrower to attempt to seize the position of the rational actor and political center of the debate
Your accusation is incorrect. I will assume it was an honest mistake on your part.
Typhoid was strongly implying a desire for democrats to start ignoring laws because "the game has changed, rule of law doesn't apply anymore. the anarchy is already here".
that is not accelerationism
i am not arguing that we need to intentionally worsen conditions in order to make more fertile ground for revolution, i'm saying if the democrats don't want the current system to completely fall apart in the very near future they need to catch up with what the republicans have been doing for years
at this point the best acceleration someone can do if that's their goal is to vote for people who want to stay the course
I think it gets extremely frustrating to accuse people who are making legitimate political critiques of one of the only two major powers in the premiere global superpower, who are also trying to explain why that power has abdicated its duties in the face of an openly fascist, neoconfederate (but I repeat myself) power, and even regularly has leadership advocate that the fascist, neoconfederate power is a necessary political force* in the nation, as being “accelerationist”
During a press conference with House managers after Trump's second impeachment trial, Nancy Pelosi said: "I think our country needs a strong Republican party. It's very important."
USA Today is USA Today
EDIT: I should note, those two with Pelosi are TWO SEPARATE instances in the span of a year where she has beseeched the public on the necessity of the GOP
The big problem with the acceleration isn’t accusation is no one here actually argued it, but instead was a bomb lobbed into the discussion because it’s a cheap attack that makes critics of the system as it stands seem like absurd, naive and dangerous radicals to the audience, allowing the thrower to attempt to seize the position of the rational actor and political center of the debate
Your accusation is incorrect. I will assume it was an honest mistake on your part.
Typhoid was strongly implying a desire for democrats to start ignoring laws because "the game has changed, rule of law doesn't apply anymore. the anarchy is already here".
that is not accelerationism
i am not arguing that we need to intentionally worsen conditions in order to make more fertile ground for revolution, i'm saying if the democrats don't want the current system to completely fall apart in the very near future they need to catch up with what the republicans have been doing for years
at this point the best acceleration someone can do if that's their goal is to vote for people who want to stay the course
Do you think that two parties breaking laws will actually inprove the situation?
The big problem with the acceleration isn’t accusation is no one here actually argued it, but instead was a bomb lobbed into the discussion because it’s a cheap attack that makes critics of the system as it stands seem like absurd, naive and dangerous radicals to the audience, allowing the thrower to attempt to seize the position of the rational actor and political center of the debate
Your accusation is incorrect. I will assume it was an honest mistake on your part.
Typhoid was strongly implying a desire for democrats to start ignoring laws because "the game has changed, rule of law doesn't apply anymore. the anarchy is already here".
that is not accelerationism
i am not arguing that we need to intentionally worsen conditions in order to make more fertile ground for revolution, i'm saying if the democrats don't want the current system to completely fall apart in the very near future they need to catch up with what the republicans have been doing for years
at this point the best acceleration someone can do if that's their goal is to vote for people who want to stay the course
Do you think that two parties breaking laws will actually inprove the situation?
What laws do you believe people
Are advocating being broken?
Like the thing by and large here is the GOP doesn’t break laws. They break norms while still operating within and controlling where possible the letter of the law, while the Democratic Party cannot seemingly bring themselves to operate within the full extent of the Law but constrain themselves to norms that by and large exist not for the preservation of society at large but the egos of the Beltway Set.
The Democrat aristocracy is very bad and the power they have over the more leftist factions is extremely irritating
The elder Democrats insist on behaving as if the Republican party isn't bigoted, racist and fascist and didn't try to have them all killed back in January
The big problem with the acceleration isn’t accusation is no one here actually argued it, but instead was a bomb lobbed into the discussion because it’s a cheap attack that makes critics of the system as it stands seem like absurd, naive and dangerous radicals to the audience, allowing the thrower to attempt to seize the position of the rational actor and political center of the debate
Your accusation is incorrect. I will assume it was an honest mistake on your part.
Typhoid was strongly implying a desire for democrats to start ignoring laws because "the game has changed, rule of law doesn't apply anymore. the anarchy is already here".
that is not accelerationism
i am not arguing that we need to intentionally worsen conditions in order to make more fertile ground for revolution, i'm saying if the democrats don't want the current system to completely fall apart in the very near future they need to catch up with what the republicans have been doing for years
at this point the best acceleration someone can do if that's their goal is to vote for people who want to stay the course
Do you think that two parties breaking laws will actually inprove the situation?
when the alternative is the republicans unilaterally breaking laws, yes absolutely it would be better if they were both doing it. at least then the democrats could fight back on even footing if that's what they want to do
I'm almost certain LBJ, who was himself a vile, disgusting racist, broke a lot of laws and customs to get the mostly racist Democrats of the early 1960s to pass the Civil Rights Act
He also had the benefit of framing it as a tribute to JFK, less than a year previously
Today's democrats want to be friends with republicans who literally staged a coup and tried to murder them all, less than a year ago
Posts
Not to tangent this too hard, but I’d recommend Paxton’s Anatomy of Fascism in this regard
I mean it won’t assuage a single one of your worries in this regard, but in large part you’ll see the parallels between then and today, particularly the way moderate political leadership attempts to stymie the left by playing the harder right off against them, because the harder right is also interested, at the time, in preserving the sociopolitical hierarchies of the status quo.
It’s part of why I look at how the Democrats handle their left flank and the Republicans with a sense of abject horror because it feels often like they’re more than happy to remix those steps to the very same destination because god forbid anything encroach on their personal power in society
So if you were back in 1930s Germany would you be moving towards leaving electoral politics and letting the Nazis have their turn? Because I feel that is what is happening. Everyone is feeling that the fascists are inevitable so we might as well let them have a go.
And it scares me.
I have a child.
You recognize this is an impossible situation that Democratic leadership cannot resolve, but you want them to answer how they will resolve it anyway...
And if the incredible suffering and corruption of the Trump administration isn't enough of a reason to vote Dem, then I'm not sure there ever will be a sufficient reason for you.
Really, what shit did the Trump administration actually accomplish while holding all three branches? They had the longest shutdown in US history, as well as the most shutdowns. Most anything that could be construed as shit they got done was either through their one reconciliation a year or through executive orders that were constantly under legal attack and frequently overturned. Really, the accomplishments of the Trump administration were due to the Republicans ignoring the rule of law, not from following it.
Let's just accelerate our democracy right into oblivion. Because anarchy is the endpoint of both parties ignoring the rule of law.
What is it you see so clearly that others do not? That Democrats are hamstrung by a belief in government? That the system means that in certain specific cases, such as the one we're in currently, that one or two individuals can wield a lot of power? Welcome to a two-party democracy and math.
Claiming to see clearly while at the same time stating you don't have an answer to the problem clearly tells me that you don't see the situation clearly.
I vote a straight Democratic ticket in every election. The problem isn't that I'm not voting for Democrats. The problem is that the Democrats suck so much that they only people who vote for them are already-engaged, already-aware people who know that the Republicans are monstrous. And I'm not going to stop telling the truth about that because it would make the Dems look bad. The Dems are bad and I'm not going to perusade anyone to vote for them by pissing on their leg and saying it's raining.
look, it's a choice between the democrats developing the same lack of regard for norms and law that the republicans have and winning fights at least half the time, and the republicans capturing the other branches of the government for at least a generation the way they did with the judiciary. those are the options, you cannot decorum a path to victory against an enemy that doesn't care about decorum
the game has changed, rule of law doesn't apply anymore. the anarchy is already here
hitting hot metal with hammers
I think a lot of times, Americans are taught mainly that the Nazis “took over” Germany, without being taught that “takeover” was literally after years of being empowered and used as a bludgeon against the German Left (their Communist and Socialist parties) by the moderates and conservatives, and then very deliberately being given supreme powers with the Enabling act.
Which, again: it feels like modern moderates and conservatives in government have learned nothing from this, or think that somehow they can play the same the same game to hold the modern Left at bay in order to prevent the social reforms that would infringe on their powers
If we had a parliamentary system like 1930s Germany, the Democratic Party as we know it would be split between a progressive social-democrat party on the left more akin to the SPD, and a center-right party analogous to the Centre Party.
One of those voted for the Nazi Enabling Act. The other did not.
The SPD wasn't perfect by any stretch, and their biggest mistake in the final years of the Weimar Republic was opposing the Communist KPD with more fervor than opposing the Nazis. But they still opposed the Nazis.
Had the SPD and the KPD managed to achieve solidarity, the combination would have been the political force with the greatest likelihood of stopping the Nazi ascension.
Today, the fascist right wants to portray BLM and antifa as threats to America, and turn the center against them. We fight this not by enabling the center, but by showing solidarity with the left.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
cite plz
hitting hot metal with hammers
Cut it out with this shit, seriously. I am fully aware of the fascist threat. I would love to see the Democrats act like they are, too. Not sure why an armed insurrection literally forcing them out of Congress didn't make them see it but you'd need to ask them about that. I sure as fuck have no idea what they are thinking.
please define accelerationism
hitting hot metal with hammers
Where are you getting this from other than the idea that people are frustrated with the "vote blue no matter who" because it seems to be doing little to stave off said fascists, especially when you consider historical roadmaps.
An ism where you want to accelorate shit.
I would very much like to accelerate our progress on carbon neutrality and green energy. Anybody who doesn't want to accelerate that is stupid, ignorant, insane, or wicked.
Therefore, accelerationism (by your definition) is not always wrong, and glibly posting single-line comments decrying acceleration is not helpful.
Edit: clarified that Incenj is using a different definition of accelerationism
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Does it?
Accelerating a system that is headed in a bad direction, which is the entire modern and contemporary context of accelerationism, favors those who are already breaking the system, and who have no qualms on hurting people more.
Progress is a constant clawing against the gravity of selfishness. You are only ever going to accelorate toward the ground.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
An accelerationist argument would be something like, "you work to elect Tump because the American empire is evil and a Trump presidency is the fastest way to make it collapse." This is not an argument currently being made by anyone as far as I can tell.
accelerationism in the context you seem to've been using is intentionally making material conditions worse so that workers will be pushed toward revolution. it has a lot more to do with burning food and fuel supplies before they can get to the people who need them than voting for the wrong guy, or discouraging voting altogether. the real thing is in fact morally and tactically indefensible, but the way you're using it you can basically accuse anyone who doesn't actively support the democrats of being accelerationists, which is so broad it's meaningless
hitting hot metal with hammers
How much time do you want for your progress?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Reality does not conform to my wishes, so unless you have a genie you want to lend me this is a meaningless question.
You might as well argue there’s a secret undercurrent of Posadism at play, for the other side thinks the Vulcans will save us
EDIT: For the love of god iOS, please recognize words ending in -ism
i don't think it's especially useful to zero in on one word in a post and ignore the rest of it
hitting hot metal with hammers
It's actually a quote by James Baldwin, a rhetorical question levied at white moderates who decade after decade seem content to preach patience to black people while ignoring or minimizing the misery inflicted upon them every day.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Your accusation is incorrect. I will assume it was an honest mistake on your part.
Typhoid was strongly implying a desire for democrats to start ignoring laws because "the game has changed, rule of law doesn't apply anymore. the anarchy is already here".
I campaigned hard for Hillary and did not for Biden because my personal mental health no longer allows me to give of myself for people who think so little of me, that said, were I a Georgian I deffo would have volunteered for the senate races
Given that mutual aid:
- does material good
- helps mobilize voters
I could easily levee a comment like this...
...back at CB for her dismissiveness towards mutual aid.
If all you do is fill in a bubble on a ballot once every two years, then you are also giving in to the fascists.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
that is not accelerationism
i am not arguing that we need to intentionally worsen conditions in order to make more fertile ground for revolution, i'm saying if the democrats don't want the current system to completely fall apart in the very near future they need to catch up with what the republicans have been doing for years
at this point the best acceleration someone can do if that's their goal is to vote for people who want to stay the course
hitting hot metal with hammers
I disagree, and I am familiar with the various uses of the word.
This thread has a certain degree of latitude but this sort of shit is obviously not helpful. If this is all you’ve got don’t bother to post.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
*see:
- https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2019/12/joe-biden-america-needs-the-republican-party.html
- https://www.newsweek.com/nancy-pelosi-says-america-needs-strong-republican-party-not-hijacked-cult-1535343
-
USA Today is USA Today
EDIT: I should note, those two with Pelosi are TWO SEPARATE instances in the span of a year where she has beseeched the public on the necessity of the GOP
Do you think that two parties breaking laws will actually inprove the situation?
What laws do you believe people
Are advocating being broken?
Like the thing by and large here is the GOP doesn’t break laws. They break norms while still operating within and controlling where possible the letter of the law, while the Democratic Party cannot seemingly bring themselves to operate within the full extent of the Law but constrain themselves to norms that by and large exist not for the preservation of society at large but the egos of the Beltway Set.
The elder Democrats insist on behaving as if the Republican party isn't bigoted, racist and fascist and didn't try to have them all killed back in January
when the alternative is the republicans unilaterally breaking laws, yes absolutely it would be better if they were both doing it. at least then the democrats could fight back on even footing if that's what they want to do
hitting hot metal with hammers
He also had the benefit of framing it as a tribute to JFK, less than a year previously
Today's democrats want to be friends with republicans who literally staged a coup and tried to murder them all, less than a year ago