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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] - Tories Dropping like Johnson's Flies

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    NI results should be interesting enough even if there's nothing going on in your area. The DUP reaping all those dumb, dumb crops they had so much fun sowing over the last few years.

    General impression is that whichever Unionist party emerges as the largest will continue to keep digging though. Either to demand the Protocol get fixed or, according to TUV election literature I personally perused, keep Sinn Fein away from the First Minister. They mentioned Sinn Fein even more than themselves. "Keep out the Shinners" is a time-honoured classic.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    How could I forget the most blessed byproduct of today?

    k1b3pbf4ua3b.jpg

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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    "More Tories = more regulation" feels transparently wrong

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    KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Dominic Cummings for instrumental in putting this batch of Tories in power.

    He can go fuck himself.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Cummings is fairly transparently motivated purely by spite, but so long as he's attacking the Tories I'll allow it.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    How could I forget the most blessed byproduct of today?

    k1b3pbf4ua3b.jpg

    Needs more daschunds.

    If there's one thing I've learned about Australian politics, it's that elections have sausages.

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    How could I forget the most blessed byproduct of today?

    k1b3pbf4ua3b.jpg

    Needs more daschunds.

    If there's one thing I've learned about Australian politics, it's that elections have sausages.

    Either way, I don't want to see sausages being made, politics being made, or dachshunds being made.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    How could I forget the most blessed byproduct of today?

    k1b3pbf4ua3b.jpg

    Needs more daschunds.

    If there's one thing I've learned about Australian politics, it's that elections have sausages.

    what i learned from australian politics is that u cannot fight the power of cosmic irony

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Holt
    Harold Edward Holt CH (5 August 1908 – 17 December 1967) was an Australian politician who served as the 17th prime minister of Australia from 1966 until his presumed death in 1967.
    ...

    Holt convinced the group to stop at remote Cheviot Beach for a swim before lunch – he had spearfished there on many previous occasions, and claimed to "know this beach like the back of my hand."
    According to his companions, Holt had "incredible powers of endurance underwater", and sometimes kept himself amused during parliamentary debates by seeing how long he could hold his breath. Although he could tread water for long periods, he was not a strong surface swimmer.[7]

    Several of Holt's friends confronted him about the dangers of his hobby, including his press secretary, Tony Eggleton, to whom Holt responded, "Look Tony, what are the odds of a prime minister being drowned or taken by a shark?" On 20 May 1967, Holt had a close call while diving at Cheviot Beach on the Mornington Peninsula, where he became distressed and called for help. Pulled ashore by his diving companions, he remained conscious, but turned purple and vomited a large amount of seawater. Holt attributed the incident to a leaking snorkel, and supposedly remarked, "That's the closest I have ever been to drowning in my life!"
    Because of the rough conditions, only one other person, Alan Stewart, joined Holt in the water. Stewart kept close to shore, but Holt swam out into deeper water and was seemingly caught up in a rip, eventually disappearing from view. One of the witnesses, Marjorie Gillespie, described it as "like a leaf being taken out [...] so quick and final."

    His death was commemorated in a number of ways, among them by the establishment of the Harold Holt Memorial Swimming Centre in Melbourne.

    obF2Wuw.png
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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I did a democracy in the end. With no better ideas I reverted to "fuck the Tories".

    Honestly though this is about the most indecided I've ever been in a ballot box. Pure spite was the only thing stopping me spoiling the ballot.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    "His death was commemorated in a number of ways, among them by the establishment of the Harold Holt Memorial Swimming Centre in Melbourne."

    I did my basic junior scuba certification there (since lapsed).

    My mum always found that hilarious.

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    Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    .
    I cant wait for the opposition in Scotland to declare either A ) The SNPs increased share means nothing or B ) The SNPs decreased share indicates terminal decline

    "Peak SNP" is a bit like Waiting for Godot.

    The completely different numbers of candidates the 5 main parties have put up compared to 2017 is going to be utterly ignored by the press.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    Democracy done!
    Hopefully the Alliance and moderate vote has turned out on the day. I'm hopeful about the result as it's the first time in ages that the DUP have looked seriously threatened and they (and the unionists in general) really need to be knocked off their perch.

    The DUP have dug themselves such a hole that they ought to be hammered at the polls. They have basically no policy other than 'rave about the protocol and Sinn Fein'. They actually had to try and pivot from 'rant about the protocol' to 'Sinn Fein Border poll!' since the anti-protocol line simply wasn't resonating with all but a small minority of hardline unionists, and most of them will vote for the even more hardline party anyway. Of course it doesn't help that they caused the protocol in the first place. Then, of course, they brought down stormont. Suffice to say, this is a very unpopular thing to do over here - ironically in part due to the DUP (wrongfully) blaming Sinn Fein for bringing it down last time. That they brought it down after months of half hearted deadlines over a protocol that few care about is just the icing on the cake.

    On top of it all, Donaldson just isn't a good leader. He has virtually no charisma, and got there by mounting a coup. There was a TV debate on tuesday among the party leaders, and it was basically a 4v1 pile on where Donaldson couldn't provide any real answers and floundered badly. It was great to see. I do wonder what'll happen when they have a bad result?

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    Democracy done!
    Hopefully the Alliance and moderate vote has turned out on the day. I'm hopeful about the result as it's the first time in ages that the DUP have looked seriously threatened and they (and the unionists in general) really need to be knocked off their perch.

    The DUP have dug themselves such a hole that they ought to be hammered at the polls. They have basically no policy other than 'rave about the protocol and Sinn Fein'. They actually had to try and pivot from 'rant about the protocol' to 'Sinn Fein Border poll!' since the anti-protocol line simply wasn't resonating with all but a small minority of hardline unionists, and most of them will vote for the even more hardline party anyway. Of course it doesn't help that they caused the protocol in the first place. Then, of course, they brought down stormont. Suffice to say, this is a very unpopular thing to do over here - ironically in part due to the DUP (wrongfully) blaming Sinn Fein for bringing it down last time. That they brought it down after months of half hearted deadlines over a protocol that few care about is just the icing on the cake.

    On top of it all, Donaldson just isn't a good leader. He has virtually no charisma, and got there by mounting a coup. There was a TV debate on tuesday among the party leaders, and it was basically a 4v1 pile on where Donaldson couldn't provide any real answers and floundered badly. It was great to see. I do wonder what'll happen when they have a bad result?

    My Mum's a poll volunteer and at lunchtime reported her station was pretty busy compared to last time. Entirely anecdotal but maybe it means something.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Also while Michelle O'Neill said in an interview back in March that maybe we should start having the conversation of what reunification will look like, I'm confident Sinn Fein won't touch a border poll until they're certain of victory. I think we've all seen the perils of asking a referendum question you don't know the answer to in the past decade.

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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    Yeah, the 'Sinn Fein border poll!' cry didn't work at all. Nobody actually bought it, not least because Sinn Fein have very deliberately been playing it down and dismissing the notion for now. It came across as paranoid and desparate more than anything.

    It was very sparse when I went down to vote, but not that surprising for the time of day. The turnout seemed to be about 35-40% at 5pm (going off what they had on the wall). No idea how that compares to normal though.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Some bizarre rumours reported by the Guardian Live blog that if Boris makes it through, he'll call for a general election in Autumn. Not sure if that's arrogance or spite...

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I don't see what kind of results tomorrow could bring that would give him that kind of confidence. Even if the results are better than expected that's a big step to take.

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    If they don't lose too badly, the calculus might be, "well, people don't seem to care about the current scandals enough to lose us our majority, but they might about the next lot, so let's capitalise on that and then we don't have to keep pretending we're going to lower taxes in 2024"

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    danxdanx Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Some bizarre rumours reported by the Guardian Live blog that if Boris makes it through, he'll call for a general election in Autumn. Not sure if that's arrogance or spite...

    They have years left and Boris wants to shorten it? What?

    Our leccy bill just today increased by over double regular prices pushing us into shit street and we're not alone. That's not going to be good for the Tories as more and more people get hit. Autumn is before Winter when things get worse I guess? Or do they just not want to deal with the crisis and just fuck off?

    This makes no sense.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Some bizarre rumours reported by the Guardian Live blog that if Boris makes it through, he'll call for a general election in Autumn. Not sure if that's arrogance or spite...

    They have years left and Boris wants to shorten it? What?

    Our leccy bill just today increased by over double regular prices pushing us into shit street and we're not alone. That's not going to be good for the Tories as more and more people get hit. Autumn is before Winter when things get worse I guess? Or do they just not want to deal with the crisis and just fuck off?

    This makes no sense.

    I'm thinking that's the rub.

    Try and weather the storm of scandals, and get a full term to unfuck things (which I guess the Tory plan is to just let it happen and hope people forget/get used to it).

    Or worst case, you lose, Labour get in, you get to blame them for all the problems you're kicking down the road (energy issue, eventual Brexit comeuppance, etc), and have a clear shot at things again when Labor fail.

    There's a bill coming due, and getting 5 years for people to forget, or a patsy to blame, isn't a bad political move when the electorate are shown to not properly assign blame.

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    This winter is going to kill off a lot of their core voting base, so get one more election out of them

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Shit is only going to get worse, so try and get five more years of power before they do.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I swear to God I will spend the rest of my life internally screaming if Labour are somehow in power this Winter and get the blame for *waves hands*

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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Given the last few years, it seems elections are called just so they can operate unhindered for a good 18 months under the obfuscation of a mandate. Boris is so fucked at this point it might be his only chance to regain any credibility.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Given the last few years, it seems elections are called just so they can operate unhindered for a good 18 months under the obfuscation of a mandate. Boris is so fucked at this point it might be his only chance to regain any credibility.
    This is probably the only calculus in his head.

    The sharks are circling, and if their shit gets pushed in in these local elections common wisdom would probably be that they should replace Boris ASAP and try to dig the party out of the hole before a general election.

    But if Boris schedules one that soon they won't want to make a show of being fractured enough to replace the boss. A job guarantee until Autumn would be a serious improvement over what he's had for the last few months, so he could go for a Hail Mary; if he loses at least he held out that long, and if he wins he's probably secured it for the foreseeable future.

    My prediction would be for it to be timed for the next round of Cost of Living Crisis to go up, and for Boris to make a big show about the help he's giving us then.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Given the last few years, it seems elections are called just so they can operate unhindered for a good 18 months under the obfuscation of a mandate. Boris is so fucked at this point it might be his only chance to regain any credibility.
    This is probably the only calculus in his head.

    The sharks are circling, and if their shit gets pushed in in these local elections common wisdom would probably be that they should replace Boris ASAP and try to dig the party out of the hole before a general election.

    But if Boris schedules one that soon they won't want to make a show of being fractured enough to replace the boss. A job guarantee until Autumn would be a serious improvement over what he's had for the last few months, so he could go for a Hail Mary; if he loses at least he held out that long, and if he wins he's probably secured it for the foreseeable future.

    My prediction would be for it to be timed for the next round of Cost of Living Crisis to go up, and for Boris to make a big show about the help he's giving us then.

    That depends on them actually giving help

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Given the last few years, it seems elections are called just so they can operate unhindered for a good 18 months under the obfuscation of a mandate. Boris is so fucked at this point it might be his only chance to regain any credibility.
    This is probably the only calculus in his head.

    The sharks are circling, and if their shit gets pushed in in these local elections common wisdom would probably be that they should replace Boris ASAP and try to dig the party out of the hole before a general election.

    But if Boris schedules one that soon they won't want to make a show of being fractured enough to replace the boss. A job guarantee until Autumn would be a serious improvement over what he's had for the last few months, so he could go for a Hail Mary; if he loses at least he held out that long, and if he wins he's probably secured it for the foreseeable future.

    My prediction would be for it to be timed for the next round of Cost of Living Crisis to go up, and for Boris to make a big show about the help he's giving us then.

    That depends on them actually giving help

    I'd expect something like a big noise and a big sounding promise, like the help we're getting with our energy bills (to be repaid in future energy bills, so a loan rather than actual help).
    It doesn't have to be impressive, just sound like it.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Yeah, thinking about it/lettering it fester I could easily see it as being "If you survive this Leadership challenge, you've got a year as the winner before they can do it again. You're a good campaigner* and considered more charismatic than Starmer, so a GE now will get you those 18 months to finish your term, and Vladimir might launch nukes after that so at least you'll be in the bunker...

    *against Corbyn, fridge not withstanding

    Tastyfish on
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    AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Well only half the councils have been counted but it looks like conservatives are struggling- CON -118

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    -131 now, including Westminster

    I'm keeping track with the Guardian

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    The results for Labour are still pretty pathetic. Open corruption and cronyism, active ministers telling people to buy value brands or take advantage of 24 hour bus passes, and the reports still say that outside of London, Labour has made only modest gains. Of course it's local councillor elections so turnout was probably low and people don't necessarily care enough to vote compared to a general election. The PNS will apparently be out later today to show projected GE results.

    Starmer needs to do more, he's virtually invisible on the national stage when he should be the public face of anti-Boris. And if Labour gets in they need to look seriously at implementing PR, because as things currently are, FPTP is working against them as much as anyone else at this point.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Mum confirmed yesterday was pretty busy for her. Roughly 70% turnout by her reckoning. NI always had decent turnout, but that seems above average. We'll see what that translates to later today, I don't think they counted overnight.

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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    It's lovely waking up to a sad blur bar. A shame it's only councils. But I'll take it

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Bristol has voted to get rid of the position of Mayor, which I'm pretty happy about because it was silly.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    The results for Labour are certainly not pathetic, but they're not that great either. Winning Tory councils in London that were blue even through the Blair years when Tories were an endangered species is pretty good, failing to get through to ex-Labour voters in Leave areas is far less good.

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    Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    These results only further reinforce the view that the tactic must be Tories v Rest of the World. Labour cannot win a GE outright, it looks like they've lost their traditional heartlands now but that doesn't matter if Lab / SNP / Lib Dems can work tactically together through the next few years.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    The results for Labour are certainly not pathetic, but they're not that great either. Winning Tory councils in London that were blue even through the Blair years when Tories were an endangered species is pretty good, failing to get through to ex-Labour voters in Leave areas is far less good.

    We need to find some sort of statistic that produces the number 3.6 so we can say the thing.

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    Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    The results for Labour are certainly not pathetic, but they're not that great either. Winning Tory councils in London that were blue even through the Blair years when Tories were an endangered species is pretty good, failing to get through to ex-Labour voters in Leave areas is far less good.

    The brexit house of cards is yet to fall down. Until then Labour will struggle to make gains in pro leave areas.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    In the minds of most Brexiters I doubt things will ever make them change their mind. Economic negatives will be written off as unimportant and not the reason they voted to Leave in the first place and besides they're down to something else anyway.

This discussion has been closed.