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Pathfinder 2E: "The Time of the O.R.C. has come."

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Posts

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I think my next PFS character should be a sneaky sort. I want to get some experience with these rules.

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    I got the starfinder 2 creature booklet for the free RPG day. Nice to see some 2nd edition pathfinder compatible versions of some starfinder critters. One of the interesting thing is it has a few spells/cantrip one of which is pretty neat for technomages/casters. It allows you to use a cantrip to recharge a gun that is empty so you can shoot once with it. So very handy ability in a pinch if you are out of clips and want to use your gun.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Finished reading the bloody huge Tian Xia guide, and I do strongly recommend it. There is clearly a lot of research invested in it, with lots of very specific cultural details. They also make sure to add adventure hooks left and right, with a good amount of variation.

    You can also see Paizo's focus on representation on full display, with like a quarter or third of listed NPCs falling outside of the cishet binary gender norms, such as the kitsune who proudly bears their top surgery scars alongside having a split human/fox face.

    A good amount of focus goes to non-humans, even if they remain the focus, so there opportunities for many PC backgrounds. Lots of good opportunities for kitsune and tengu, obviously, but also your various lizard, frog, and fish folk.

    Kaiju and the angry/confused undead, dragons, and haunted clockwork are a tremendous presence. (Elementals are too, but mostly in a vague historical threat sense.)

    They slip in some anachronism here and there, with extra-magical places creating things like fighting games and neon signs, but they make sure to keep it local and contextual. There's also basically a wuxia nation if you want to have an adventure where literally everyone knows crazy martial arts and uses them for everything including cooking and farming.

    Monster entries are kind of a grab bag with some interesting gimicks for stories but nothing that is especially important for the day to day like a new class of creatures or something.

    All in all, a good read with lots to chew on. Got a lot of inspiration out of it.

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Their major regional books have all been real good for PF2e The mwangi expanse, impossible lands and now Tian xia have all ben really chonky and good books fully of interesting settings. Like in Tian Xia one regions government is basically run by a kraken.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Played in a PFS game last night. We had a challenge to impress some bored immortals.

    I said I would flex my shiny pecs at them, armstrong style.

    Rolled a crit.

  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    The Player's Guide for Curtain Call is up. Interestingly, it suggests that those who played the Hell's Rebels AP (which takes place in the same city) DO NOT reuse their characters from that AP into this one. The back of the book also has a who's who of Kintargo NPCs for those that want to know what the NPCs from Hell's Rebels have been up to more or less since the end of that AP.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Owenashi wrote: »
    The Player's Guide for Curtain Call is up. Interestingly, it suggests that those who played the Hell's Rebels AP (which takes place in the same city) DO NOT reuse their characters from that AP into this one. The back of the book also has a who's who of Kintargo NPCs for those that want to know what the NPCs from Hell's Rebels have been up to more or less since the end of that AP.

    It amuses me how frequently Paizo's adventures are about entertainment. Such a huge portion of their PFS adventures have a section where you entertain people to make friends, get info, or distract.

  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    Anyone check out the blog-posts on the new Starfinder Iconics Dae (Solarian) and Chk Chk (Mystic)? They're both neat reads into the pair as well as other things in the 2E era. Like how one of Zon-Shelyn's first places of worship was a small cafe Chk Chk was working at.
    Chk Chk broke his social isolation to join a group of artists he met at a nonstop café in Takoris. At first, Chk Chk got a job as a barista so he could attend the meetings without attracting attention. As he improved his skills at writing dark poetry and brewing dark roast (both topped with colorful sprinkles), Chk Chk gradually became the spiritual glue holding the group of misfit artists together. One night during a midnight jam, the group had a religious experience, feeling a surge of bliss as Zon-Shelyn Embraced them and their work. Zon-Shelyn called on Chk Chk to become their minister by nurturing creativity and creating a safe space for artists to gather. The tiny cafe was consecrated as one of Zon-Shelyn’s first temples (they still serve coffee), but Chk Chk was inspired by the idea of ministering in a new place, feeling the same wanderlust as his father before him.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 2024
    Had a good PFS session last night against some undead. My shark-themed water/earth kineticist fisherman made quick work of like half the enemies in the session with a judicious use of blasts with ideal damage types, and some very good rolls using the bola I just picked up (first use was a crit!).

    Two bumps in the road came up during the adventure:
    Our group had no social skills other than Intimidate, and it would be super handy having a wagon (also Pathfinder needs more vehicles).

    I did a little digging into the options, and I came up with this:
    Henchman with Diplomacy and Driving Lore
    Carriage and two war horses (160gp total)

    Since my character is a human dive fisher raised by orcs, I figure the hireling can be an orc lady he works with to cart around and sell fish, sometimes referred to as Fishwife though without romantic implications.

    Incenjucar on
  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    Starfinder 2E Playtest is live. They also announced two books between the end of 2024 and the launch of 2E proper; a class playtest for both Mechanics and Technomancers as well as a setting book called the Galaxy Guide which will set the state for 2E as well as add in six more Ancestries.

    On the Pathfinder side of things, the Whispering Tyrant's getting some attention again with a three-adventure book, Claws Of The Tyrant, with the second story letting players be agents of the Tyrant. Shades Of Blood was also announced as an Adventure Path, said to be vampire-focused but more action then horror.

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    edited August 2024
    Looks like the starfinder 2e releases look kind of as expected. Their first 2e book before the rule book is even slated to come out is basically a setting/ancestry book. The hardest thing for them is how much of a weird alien cantina scene starfinder 1 captured so pumping out 6 new ancestries even before the SF2e book comes out seems like they are coming out swinging to get popular ancestries up and going.

    kaid on
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    is there any preview stuff of what the animist and exemplar classes are about in the war of immortals book?

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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    I got wrangled into participating in a SF2 playtest for later today, so I've been making a 1st level character.

    First, the playtest document doesn't actually explain the process for making a character, which is very dumb. It assumes you have the PF2 character creation stuff, which... okay it's all free online, but jesus. I know they want full compatibility between PF2 and SF2, but it's still kinda insulting for those that are interested in SF being anything more than an odd pathfinder expansion.

    Second, they've mauled the Soldier horribly. Where once there was an exceptionally flexible non-magical fighter with lots of interesting builds, they're now a one-trick pony based on heavy weapon suppressing fire. In all of my SF1 career, some 23 characters, I have ONE heavy weapon soldier, and while Dragonbot is one of my favorite characters, he's vastly outnumbered by all my melee soldiers... like my bull rush lizard, my wrasslin' walrus, and my wuxia bear, who rarely even touch heavy weapons, much less rely on them for the important class features. To add insult to injury, the primary stat is now Constitution. Constitution doesn't do shit to help in killing enemies, as far as I can tell; it only funnels Soldiers into being tank crowd controllers.

    Third, Operatives have also been maimed. Okay, they were stupidly powerful as skill monkeys that were also one of the highest damage dealers in SF1, they're now little more than half-assed gunslingers without significant out-of-combat utility. They over-corrected in the spirit of making Envoys the skill characters. Don't get me wrong, I love Envoys, but they shouldn't be the only skill character.

    Fourth, the fucking space jedi Solarians got all of the combat flexibility that the Soldier lost, and even has one or more trained skills more than the Operative. Like they can take 10 minutes and change the damage type of their solar weapon, and they can take, and now they can have solar armor, solar weapon, AND a solar ranged attack (that uses strength to damage), all at the same time.

    Anyway, I decided to go with the Operative, since I saw that there was a "striker" option where they could forego their pistolero shit and get expert one-handed agile melee and unarmed ability instead. Great! I chose Pahtra, because space kitties can get some good unarmed options. I could do cat Jason Bourne with claws!

    But wait, this story still sucks! Because while the Striker Operative has expert unarmed, that's the last reference to Unarmed anywhere in the kit. The class variant specifically mentions that all the pistol options are now available to one-handed melee weapons with the agile trait. Guess what isn't a "one handed melee weapon?" Claws!
    However, unarmed attacks aren’t weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so.

    Mind you, this gem is on page 170 of the document, well after all of the character creation options.

    Apparently this has been pointed out to the devs already, but not yet corrected... if it even will be corrected, because SF2 has a "ranged meta" and they want to sell non-bullshit ranged options later.

    Fuck it, I'm just going to point this out to the GM and suffer for my obstreperousness if necessary.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Huh that's a weird choice when pf2 considers unarmed basically just another melee weapon

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2024
    Huh that's a weird choice when pf2 considers unarmed basically just another melee weapon

    Unarmed is not a weapon in PF2E.

    https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2191

    "Unarmed attacks can belong to a weapon group (page 276), and they might have weapon traits (page 276). However, unarmed attacks aren't weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so."

    Incenjucar on
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited September 2024
    oh, huh ok I thought you could use unarmed with like, fighter abilities
    e: actually many fighter feats don't specify it has to be a weapon attack, just a melee strike (or strike in general if they allow ranged attacks too) so they do work with most fighter feats I think? There's definitely a few that specify a weapon strike too though. It seems like unarmed not being a weapon is mainly just a reminder so that in the exceptional cases they do specify "weapon melee strike" you know they mean that excludes unarmed specifically.

    BahamutZERO on
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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Unarmed was an incredibly good option in SF1 even without a monk class, and worked with all weapon abilities.

    Just one of many incredible disappointments I'm having with SF2.

  • Paul GiamattiPaul Giamatti nah nahRegistered User regular
    edited September 2024
    this is why you have to hand wraps of might blows to get those good good runes for punching/biting/clawing/tailing mobs

    it is silly

    Paul Giamatti on
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    here's a PF2 question for you: when, say, monk's flurry of blows specifies you make two strikes, does that mean basic strike actions or can you use fancier abilities that are single action strikes there instead? I assume the former, 2 Strike actions.

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    joshgotro wrote: »
    this is why you have to hand wraps of might blows to get those good good runes for punching/biting/clawing/tailing mobs

    it is silly

    I've always thought the intent with handwraps is they are a generic "worn item what enhances unarmed that you can Put Runes On" example item and you can just reflavor them however you want and makes sense for your character, wrap them around your feet or tail or make them something other than a wrapping if you want.

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • Paul GiamattiPaul Giamatti nah nahRegistered User regular
    edited September 2024
    Sorry. The silly part I was alluding to is the whole unarmed typed attacks aren't weapons in the rules.

    I love hand wraps

    Paul Giamatti on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Unarmed not counting as weapons is probably due to them being wary of 1) polymorph/morph attacks and 2) scenarios where the "object unattached to your flesh" part of being a weapon comes in.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    ah I see

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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I mean, the upside is that it's a playtest and this is feedback hopefully many are giving them.

    EDIT: I guess I should say, hopefully it's feedback they're actually listening to and will do something about.

    Not to be a Negative Nelson, but I suspect they wont change it.

    A big objective for Paizo with SF2e is making sure it is fully compatible with PF2e. If Unarmed isn't considered a weapon in PF2e then it is unlikely to be considered a weapon in SF2e.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2024
    They really just need to push out some unarmed options for both settings but with enough caveats to cover the bases for the things they're concerned about.

    Maybe add a new label that rules out or tones-down unarmed attacks granted by polymorph or morph features, and then make some abilities that cover unarmed attacks specifically, as well as unarmed + weapon combos based on whether or not the unarmed attack comes with a usage cost. Fighting with a 2-handed weapon plus fangs/tail/horns/etc. could be different than claw + one-handed weapon since you're giving up a hand.

    Incenjucar on
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Personally I don't see any reason why Gloves/Gauntlets can't work as "weapons" for Unarmed combat.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • RonTheDMRonTheDM Yes, yes Registered User regular
    here's a PF2 question for you: when, say, monk's flurry of blows specifies you make two strikes, does that mean basic strike actions or can you use fancier abilities that are single action strikes there instead? I assume the former, 2 Strike actions.

    "strike" is an action, it is the basic you attack with a weapon, so for instance

    I have a player who is a gunslinger, he has gunslingers juke, which lets him step, strike, step, strike for 2 actions, and he asked me if he could make one of the strikes his reloading strike, and I was like no, you get those 4 actions for 2 actions, you can't replace them with other kinds of special steps or strikes for it

    in the way that sudden charge is 2 strides then a strike, etc.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Personally I don't see any reason why Gloves/Gauntlets can't work as "weapons" for Unarmed combat.

    If someone turns your gauntlet into vapor vs. if someone turns your fists into vapor, etc.

  • Paul GiamattiPaul Giamatti nah nahRegistered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Personally I don't see any reason why Gloves/Gauntlets can't work as "weapons" for Unarmed combat.

    Gauntlets are a weapon in PF2e.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2024
    joshgotro wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    Personally I don't see any reason why Gloves/Gauntlets can't work as "weapons" for Unarmed combat.

    Gauntlets are a weapon in PF2e.

    Gauntlets AND spiked gauntlets. Both great options for a backup attack without eating up hand slots.

    Incenjucar on
  • Paul GiamattiPaul Giamatti nah nahRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    joshgotro wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    Personally I don't see any reason why Gloves/Gauntlets can't work as "weapons" for Unarmed combat.

    Gauntlets are a weapon in PF2e.

    Gauntlets AND spiked gauntlets. Both great options for a backup attack without eating up hand slots.

    Bladed Gauntlet and Bow Gauntlet medieval mando

    https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=253

    https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=335

  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I mean, the upside is that it's a playtest and this is feedback hopefully many are giving them.

    EDIT: I guess I should say, hopefully it's feedback they're actually listening to and will do something about.

    Not to be a Negative Nelson, but I suspect they wont change it.

    A big objective for Paizo with SF2e is making sure it is fully compatible with PF2e. If Unarmed isn't considered a weapon in PF2e then it is unlikely to be considered a weapon in SF2e.

    I agree but that's only one way to fix it. The other is to change the Striker Operative so that their abilities work with unarmed as well as weapons. Which, honestly, makes the most sense to me.

    With their chosen paradigm, just fixing Striker Operative is the way to go. Fixing a playtest option vs. redesigning a whole (dumb) aspect of their flagship game.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited September 2024
    joshgotro wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    Personally I don't see any reason why Gloves/Gauntlets can't work as "weapons" for Unarmed combat.

    Gauntlets are a weapon in PF2e.

    Hm, I should've been more specific.

    Gauntlets are weapons and that is the issue because they are not Unarmed weapons. They are Simple weapons and so they supersede whatever damage Punchface McFisto does with a barefisted Unarmed Strike. Also Gauntlets do not work with any Feats that require Unarmed. Nor are they considered Monk weapons so even with Monastic Weaponry you still screw yourself using Gauntlets.

    Or more simply;

    Gauntlets are- Type Melee; Category Simple; Group Brawling
    Fists are- Type Melee; Category Unarmed; Group Brawling

    I would like to see Gauntlets be considered Unarmed and allow players to use Runes while still benefiting from any Feats and so worth they have for their Chuck Norris/Macho Man character. And also to benefit from anything that requires a "Weapon". Which was my initial desire.

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    Second, they've mauled the Soldier horribly. Where once there was an exceptionally flexible non-magical fighter with lots of interesting builds, they're now a one-trick pony based on heavy weapon suppressing fire. In all of my SF1 career, some 23 characters, I have ONE heavy weapon soldier, and while Dragonbot is one of my favorite characters, he's vastly outnumbered by all my melee soldiers... like my bull rush lizard, my wrasslin' walrus, and my wuxia bear, who rarely even touch heavy weapons, much less rely on them for the important class features. To add insult to injury, the primary stat is now Constitution. Constitution doesn't do shit to help in killing enemies, as far as I can tell; it only funnels Soldiers into being tank crowd controllers.

    Soldiers CAN melee. In fact, they have a subclass all about it called Close Quarters which lets them apply the new Soldier debuff, Suppressed, with two-handed melee weapon Strikes. You can also focus on automatic weapons (Action Hero), armor and Combat Maneuvers (Armor Storm) and even wordplay with Diplomacy/Society and a Lore skill of your choice (Erudite Warrior), all of them Suppressing in their own ways. Yeah, heavy weapons have their own style too (Bombard) but there are more options to the Solider then just raining down AoE everywhere.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited September 2024
    Axen wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I mean, the upside is that it's a playtest and this is feedback hopefully many are giving them.

    EDIT: I guess I should say, hopefully it's feedback they're actually listening to and will do something about.

    Not to be a Negative Nelson, but I suspect they wont change it.

    A big objective for Paizo with SF2e is making sure it is fully compatible with PF2e. If Unarmed isn't considered a weapon in PF2e then it is unlikely to be considered a weapon in SF2e.

    it seems like the difference is in PF2 most melee feats do not explicitly call for a melee weapon strike, just a melee strike, so that seems easy to fix in SF2 if it makes sense to

    re: gauntlets: I would absolutely just house rule you can opt to use your unarmed attacks with your gauntlets' runes, and use the better of the two's damage dice size for the basic unarmed attack, even if that's not explicitly spelled out in the rules for the weapon. Likewise I'd let you do piercing damage with spiked gauntlets but using your fist attack, I probably wouldn't let it override the damage type on monk special unarmed attacks though.

    BahamutZERO on
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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Paizo is pretty good at saying exactly what they mean (when their editing is going well).

    Exacting Strike works for any Strike, weapon or not: https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4770

    "You make a controlled follow-up attack, fully accounting for your momentum. Make a Strike. The Strike gains the following failure effect."

    Double Slice is for melee weapon strikes only: https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4769

    "Requirements You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand"

    "You lash out at your foe with both weapons. Make two Strikes, one with each of your two melee weapons..."

    No mystery or guessing required. Houserule as you please, of course, just keep in mind that they do have these limitations in for balance reasons, so if you have players who look to break the system you're giving them new tools.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited September 2024
    I agree in general, in the case of gauntlets though they are very close to functionally identical to a basic unarmed attack (1d4 bludgeoning, agile, hands are not occupied by wielding them) with the one exception that they're not finesse weapons so no dex attack roll if that's better, and they are lethal instead of non-lethal.

    also I'm now imagining a dual wielding full plate fighter losing their weapons and doing double slices with their gauntlets instead

    BahamutZERO on
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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    you're not allowed to use feat strike abilities together with battle form strikes, right? I was under the impression battle forms limit you to exactly what strikes and abilities they say they give you until you change back.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Gauntlets are a good place to put a niche finishing move, status effects, or powers that override runes. Special materials, ghost touch, poison, regen killing damage, etc.

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