minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
edited August 5
I also actually like them pretty well in season two when they get hair again. I think the hairless design was a little too weird and far removed from the "original" design to work well, for me, but the hairy version feels like a cool reimagining.
minor incident on
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
+3
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Only hairless Klingon is Christopher Plumber to me. He was so cool BECAUSE he was different.
Been a minute since I had a day where I just sat and read some scripts, so I sat and read some scripts. For a portion of my reading, I decided to take a look at the pilots for ELSBETH and POKER FACE. They're both loosely Columbo-like in structure, but I much prefer the latter to the former, and I wanted to try and chase down and articulate why.
I found a few things. This is all long-winded craft stuff, I'll toss it in spoilers so as to not take up acres of page space
The first is in their respective information economies - who has which piece of the story we're hearing? Between the killer, the investigator, and the audience, who knows what, and when? Both shows (seemingly) empower the audience, giving them more information than the investigator, a glimpse of Objective Truth well before the investigator receives it. That dramatic irony is meant to drive tension; will the killer get caught in time? Will the investigator be imperiled by brushing up against truths they don't yet understand?
ELSBETH gives up too much, too soon. We see every step of the killer's plan, we see his motive, we see his flaws as a person, it's all in those first ten pages. The only questions I had were, "How will Elsbeth, the character I already know and whose name is the title of the show, come into this story?" and "How will she catch him?" The answer to the first question came quickly and perfunctorily ("Consent decree, I guess?"), and the answer to the latter was, "idk, Sherlock Holmes powers." When there are only two questions, and the answers do not satisfy, the show does not satisfy.
POKER FACE shows us a lot, but crucially, it withholds enough to leave us with a lot of questions. "What's the relationship between the two men complicit in this murder? Why does the hard man show deference to the soft man? Who are they both afraid of, and why? How does an investigator come into this insular world? Who is that investigator? How will their energy break this machine?"
The answers on who's investigating and why are much more interesting, and on POKER FACE, that question gets to recur, which is brilliant. For ELSBETH it's always just "Consent decree," it's a pre-solved mystery on a show that desperately needs more questions. POKER FACE lets Charlie discover motives along with the audience, saves crucial pieces of context for her (and us!) to find as the story goes.
ELSBETH even throws limiters on "How will they get caught," because the "working with police" framework demands resolutions that come with handcuffs. POKER FACE can end all sorts of ways, preserving mystery about outcomes. POKER FACE also has that clearer tool, that wonderful lie-detector ability. We wonder how that tool will be used, where it will fall short, how it will need to be manipulated to find ultimate purchase. ELSBETH has... "She sees stuff and is off-the-rack quirky about it." I have less innate curiosity about, "How will she see stuff" because I've been watching procedurals my whole life. "How will a human lie detector get to the bottom of a bad vibe" is infinitely fresher.
One thing that surprised me was that, on the page, ELSBETH feels a little... Dismissive of its own enterprise. Like, there's a surprising shortage of jokes on screen - characters aren't especially witty, there aren't any comedic scenarios, it's all a bit perfunctory and plot-forward. And I missed it, for a second, because there are plenty of jokes in the "action tags," the prose descriptions of what's happening on screen. But they are generally of a, "Look at this shmuck" tone. "Look at this pitiful worm of a theater director, you know this type," the script assures us. But the problem is, yeah, I do know that type... Which means there's nothing here to surprise me.
Seeing a villain get dismantled is satisfying, I don't need him to have a secret heart of gold or whatever. But when he has no secrets from me, nothing to surprise me with, he cannot scare me. He is not a threat to be defused, the way Charlie musts always navigate. The show has already, and immediately, let me know he's pathetic. He isn't a villain, he's a punching bag, here to be swatted.
The Kings are normally experts of taking a thing you think you know, turning it 5 degrees, and getting you to see it in a new light. In ELSBETH, it's like they... skipped that "turn it 5 degrees" step.
+8
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
edited August 5
The dual mystery in every episode of Poker Face (not just, “how does Charlie solve this?” but also “why and where the fuck is Charlie in this story?”) really is an absolute treat each time.
minor incident on
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Speaking of Poker Face, I saw that the next season is being showrun by Tony Tost.
He wrote some of my favorite episodes of LONGMIRE (so he's got his mystery procedural chops), but more excitingly, he created and ran the show DAMNATION. That show is, tragically, kinda forgotten, but it whiiiiiipped. Like, check this:
It was only 2017 and yet it somehow feels way ahead of its time, I feel like you could start airing it today and have more of a hit.
Anyway, yes please to letting that guy play around in the Poker Face sandbox, what a fun fucking pick
and I have never heard of it, not even in passing.
It only ran a season, and it was on USA when they were trying to figure out what they'd be "after the Blue Sky era." That was the loose categorization given to light, character-driven procedurals like MONK, PSYCH, ROYAL PAINS, etc. It defined them for a long time, but as some of their long-in-the-tooth shows started to sunset, they tried out a bunch of stuff.
MR ROBOT did well for them as one of their first big swings in this new mode, so they committed to dark and weird. But nothing else really did that well. THE SINNER popped in its first season. QUEEN OF THE SOUTH had a modest but loyal fan base and got a lot of awards, and was really cheap, but it's hard to call it a runaway success. But overall, for a long time, nobody really tuned in (my theory: if you liked Blue Sky, you were annoyed it was gone. If you didn't like Blue Sky, you weren't gonna go to USA because that's where Blue Sky is).
So USA didn't really like how any of their experiments turned out and they announced last year that they're going back to Blue Sky. They have no desire/incentive to keep those failed experiments alive in the public consciousness, it's hard to generate discourse around shows from this cul-de-sac in a basic cable network, I think anything in that bubble is gonna fade hard and fast from public consciousness.
0
Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
I've never watched Queen of the South, but its soundtrack slaps
+1
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It's kinda amazing to me the second life a lot of USA shows get on streaming services.
Like, my parents are talking to me about suits and I'm just like "...I watched that show 15 years ago and got out when it started getting bad, why are you just now watching it?" And it's because it got on netflix for the first time.
Really highlights how important marketing is. Doesn't matter how good your product is if nobody knows about it.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+3
sponoMining for Nose DiamondsBooger CoveRegistered Userregular
I get it
I just started watching the Tremors TV show because I found it on tubi this evening
I am the weird one here, but I really liked discovery’s klingons, they’re weird, and they feel very alien. It’s fun.
And it’s 100% fair to say, well make a new weird species, and that’s fair. But I also like the idea of taking a step back and imagine what the Klingons could be if you had a chance to step back and reset.
This is, and I accept very much the outlier opinion.
I agree. I was very disappointed to discover they had walked back that design.
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Ever since season 3 of the bear came out, I’ve been excited for it, but haven’t been ready to watch it. I love the bear but it’s a real emotional ride for me.
A week or two ago, I finally felt good enough to watch it. And all of a sudden I started watching season two.
And I loved it. And I’m finally up to the finale, so tomorrow. Tomorrow I will finally start season 3.
Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Season 3 absolutely flies by. It’s still better than most other tv but I would call it the weakest season of The Bear overall.
+1
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Yeah, it’s a show I have to be kind of… mentally and emotionally braced for. Took me over a year to watch season 1, and a couple months before I jumped into season 2. Still haven’t started season 3, but it’s on the list.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
0
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Last time I watched season 2 I immediately went and watched season one again.
How on Earth is Evil just so deliciously excellent week after week? The last two episodes were absolute all-timers.
0
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
It’s funny, I think the bear is a weirdly comforting show to watch. It’s obviously stressful and they ratchet up the tension, but the way everyone fights, you really get the relationships that they have with people and it’s the deeply relatable thing I get from it. Things aren’t perfect and people are reacting to these non perfect things, and there’s all this caring, but there’s also a lot of deep seated affection for these people that really shines through and it’s just nice to see.
Yeah Season 2 of The Wire is a trip. For example: Chris Bauer was younger than me when he played the role of Frank Sobotka, a character who's supposed to be in his 50s, and he looked twice my age at the time. Crazy!
We started watching Kite Man (also how crazy is it that there is a Kite Man tv show?). A bunch of voice actors have been changed from the Harley Quinn show, and Golden Glider also got a complete redesign in look and personality. In Harley Quinn she was quite timid, but here she's like the villainous equivalent of Bird Girl from Harvey Birdman.
Also Bane is a main cast member, and another main cast member is voiced by Nadja from What We Do in the Shadows.
Episode 3 is very NSFW though. For violence and nudity. At the same time.
It was good to see...
Baby Doll from BtAS
...in something again, though.
+3
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
We have made it through the seventh episode and I continue to have thoughts!
-- Klingons finally spoke in English and HOLY SHIT was it immediately better than what we have been getting prior to this. A real night and day situation.
-- Stamets is now permanently on shrooms and he is here to remind you about it.
-- The way that Captain Lorca smashes a fortune cookie between his two hands is incredibly funny to me.
-- Ash Tyler has arrived. You know, classic cool kid energy.
-- Michael and Tyler need to F.U.C.K. badly
-- Tilly continues to rule, especially in her quest to get Michael laid.
-- Every single hint about Lorca is very funny, knowing what they are leading to on the horizon.
-- Harry Mudd, YOU PIECE OF SHIT! God damn, what a slimeball. A slimeball elevated by the casting of Rainn Wilson.
harry mudd is exactly the thing I figured would get you into discovery
also, captain killy
+2
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
We have made it through the seventh episode and I continue to have thoughts!
-- Klingons finally spoke in English and HOLY SHIT was it immediately better than what we have been getting prior to this. A real night and day situation.
-- Stamets is now permanently on shrooms and he is here to remind you about it.
-- The way that Captain Lorca smashes a fortune cookie between his two hands is incredibly funny to me.
-- Ash Tyler has arrived. You know, classic cool kid energy.
-- Michael and Tyler need to F.U.C.K. badly
-- Tilly continues to rule, especially in her quest to get Michael laid.
-- Every single hint about Lorca is very funny, knowing what they are leading to on the horizon.
-- Harry Mudd, YOU PIECE OF SHIT! God damn, what a slimeball. A slimeball elevated by the casting of Rainn Wilson.
harry mudd is exactly the thing I figured would get you into discovery
A living manifestation of when you know your entire day has just become derailed with some goddamn bullshit.
The streaming plans under the Disney umbrella are going up $2, but I'm sure they'll still be unprofitable. We spent $300m making 6 bad TV episodes and lost money, accountants can't explain
Yeah, it’s a show I have to be kind of… mentally and emotionally braced for. Took me over a year to watch season 1, and a couple months before I jumped into season 2. Still haven’t started season 3, but it’s on the list.
This is Doom Patrol for me, I've got the final season DVD taunting me, I know it'll be an emotional rollercoaster.
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Well, I just done finished watching Justified after many years of hearing people rave about it.
Season 1 got my hooked good. However, season 2 I thought was a total slog to get through. I watched season 1 in two sittings, half a season each, but with season 2 I couldn't bear to watch more than three episodes at once.
Season 3 was a very slight improvement and I was wondering if I just don't vibe with the whole thing, but then seasons 4 and 5 and 6 were some banging good fun and I'm real glad I got through seasons 2 and 3 to get there.
I suppose next on the docket is City Primeval, which I've also heard good things about. Only eight episodes too, it looks like, which should make it easy to sit through in the next day or two.
Huh, didn't expect a Llamas Wearing Hats reference in my legal drama, but here we are.
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
Hail Hydra
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I am kinda shocked too. Six is like, awful compared to 2.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I didn't care for the Bennetts or any of their adjacent bullshit.
0
Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
I've always got time for Esteemed Character Actress Margo Martindale and Esteemed Character Actor Jeremy Davies.
I am kinda shocked too. Six is like, awful compared to 2.
I haven't gone back to give it a full rewatch, but season six is my second favorite season of Justified (after 2)
Sam Elliott and Mary Steenburgen are both fantastic, they parcel out more time (and great material) to Kaitlyn Dever and Jere Burns and they have a run of guest spots with actors who are great fits for the universe they've built
Seasons 3 and 4 are both pretty good with a few outstanding high points, but they don't pace/juggle their stories as cleanly and lack the clarity of purpose that seasons 2 or 6 had, IMO
Season 5 is pretty dire. It's like season 2 of Friday Night Lights, but it doesn't have the excuses of network meddling and a writer's strike like FNL did
minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
I don't think season 6 is anywhere near my favorite, but Kaitlyn Dever is excellent, and I always get an absolute kick out of watching Jere Burns ply his craft as a premium, top-choice dirtbag.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Posts
I like the idea that there's a ton of kinds of Klingon, and all their appearances are canon.
I found a few things. This is all long-winded craft stuff, I'll toss it in spoilers so as to not take up acres of page space
ELSBETH gives up too much, too soon. We see every step of the killer's plan, we see his motive, we see his flaws as a person, it's all in those first ten pages. The only questions I had were, "How will Elsbeth, the character I already know and whose name is the title of the show, come into this story?" and "How will she catch him?" The answer to the first question came quickly and perfunctorily ("Consent decree, I guess?"), and the answer to the latter was, "idk, Sherlock Holmes powers." When there are only two questions, and the answers do not satisfy, the show does not satisfy.
POKER FACE shows us a lot, but crucially, it withholds enough to leave us with a lot of questions. "What's the relationship between the two men complicit in this murder? Why does the hard man show deference to the soft man? Who are they both afraid of, and why? How does an investigator come into this insular world? Who is that investigator? How will their energy break this machine?"
The answers on who's investigating and why are much more interesting, and on POKER FACE, that question gets to recur, which is brilliant. For ELSBETH it's always just "Consent decree," it's a pre-solved mystery on a show that desperately needs more questions. POKER FACE lets Charlie discover motives along with the audience, saves crucial pieces of context for her (and us!) to find as the story goes.
ELSBETH even throws limiters on "How will they get caught," because the "working with police" framework demands resolutions that come with handcuffs. POKER FACE can end all sorts of ways, preserving mystery about outcomes. POKER FACE also has that clearer tool, that wonderful lie-detector ability. We wonder how that tool will be used, where it will fall short, how it will need to be manipulated to find ultimate purchase. ELSBETH has... "She sees stuff and is off-the-rack quirky about it." I have less innate curiosity about, "How will she see stuff" because I've been watching procedurals my whole life. "How will a human lie detector get to the bottom of a bad vibe" is infinitely fresher.
One thing that surprised me was that, on the page, ELSBETH feels a little... Dismissive of its own enterprise. Like, there's a surprising shortage of jokes on screen - characters aren't especially witty, there aren't any comedic scenarios, it's all a bit perfunctory and plot-forward. And I missed it, for a second, because there are plenty of jokes in the "action tags," the prose descriptions of what's happening on screen. But they are generally of a, "Look at this shmuck" tone. "Look at this pitiful worm of a theater director, you know this type," the script assures us. But the problem is, yeah, I do know that type... Which means there's nothing here to surprise me.
Seeing a villain get dismantled is satisfying, I don't need him to have a secret heart of gold or whatever. But when he has no secrets from me, nothing to surprise me with, he cannot scare me. He is not a threat to be defused, the way Charlie musts always navigate. The show has already, and immediately, let me know he's pathetic. He isn't a villain, he's a punching bag, here to be swatted.
The Kings are normally experts of taking a thing you think you know, turning it 5 degrees, and getting you to see it in a new light. In ELSBETH, it's like they... skipped that "turn it 5 degrees" step.
That's just good branding.
EDIT: Ladies and gentlemen we have a haunted toilet.
He wrote some of my favorite episodes of LONGMIRE (so he's got his mystery procedural chops), but more excitingly, he created and ran the show DAMNATION. That show is, tragically, kinda forgotten, but it whiiiiiipped. Like, check this:
It was only 2017 and yet it somehow feels way ahead of its time, I feel like you could start airing it today and have more of a hit.
Anyway, yes please to letting that guy play around in the Poker Face sandbox, what a fun fucking pick
and I have never heard of it, not even in passing.
It only ran a season, and it was on USA when they were trying to figure out what they'd be "after the Blue Sky era." That was the loose categorization given to light, character-driven procedurals like MONK, PSYCH, ROYAL PAINS, etc. It defined them for a long time, but as some of their long-in-the-tooth shows started to sunset, they tried out a bunch of stuff.
MR ROBOT did well for them as one of their first big swings in this new mode, so they committed to dark and weird. But nothing else really did that well. THE SINNER popped in its first season. QUEEN OF THE SOUTH had a modest but loyal fan base and got a lot of awards, and was really cheap, but it's hard to call it a runaway success. But overall, for a long time, nobody really tuned in (my theory: if you liked Blue Sky, you were annoyed it was gone. If you didn't like Blue Sky, you weren't gonna go to USA because that's where Blue Sky is).
So USA didn't really like how any of their experiments turned out and they announced last year that they're going back to Blue Sky. They have no desire/incentive to keep those failed experiments alive in the public consciousness, it's hard to generate discourse around shows from this cul-de-sac in a basic cable network, I think anything in that bubble is gonna fade hard and fast from public consciousness.
Like, my parents are talking to me about suits and I'm just like "...I watched that show 15 years ago and got out when it started getting bad, why are you just now watching it?" And it's because it got on netflix for the first time.
Really highlights how important marketing is. Doesn't matter how good your product is if nobody knows about it.
I just started watching the Tremors TV show because I found it on tubi this evening
I agree. I was very disappointed to discover they had walked back that design.
https://gofund.me/fa5990a5
https://imgur.com/a/important-DqNGvxZ
A week or two ago, I finally felt good enough to watch it. And all of a sudden I started watching season two.
And I loved it. And I’m finally up to the finale, so tomorrow. Tomorrow I will finally start season 3.
Satans..... hints.....
Satans..... hints.....
Satans..... hints.....
Yeah Season 2 of The Wire is a trip. For example: Chris Bauer was younger than me when he played the role of Frank Sobotka, a character who's supposed to be in his 50s, and he looked twice my age at the time. Crazy!
Also Bane is a main cast member, and another main cast member is voiced by Nadja from What We Do in the Shadows.
Episode 3 is very NSFW though. For violence and nudity. At the same time.
It was good to see...
...in something again, though.
harry mudd is exactly the thing I figured would get you into discovery
also, captain killy
A living manifestation of when you know your entire day has just become derailed with some goddamn bullshit.
He's awesome.
This is Doom Patrol for me, I've got the final season DVD taunting me, I know it'll be an emotional rollercoaster.
Season 1 got my hooked good. However, season 2 I thought was a total slog to get through. I watched season 1 in two sittings, half a season each, but with season 2 I couldn't bear to watch more than three episodes at once.
Season 3 was a very slight improvement and I was wondering if I just don't vibe with the whole thing, but then seasons 4 and 5 and 6 were some banging good fun and I'm real glad I got through seasons 2 and 3 to get there.
I suppose next on the docket is City Primeval, which I've also heard good things about. Only eight episodes too, it looks like, which should make it easy to sit through in the next day or two.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
I haven't gone back to give it a full rewatch, but season six is my second favorite season of Justified (after 2)
Sam Elliott and Mary Steenburgen are both fantastic, they parcel out more time (and great material) to Kaitlyn Dever and Jere Burns and they have a run of guest spots with actors who are great fits for the universe they've built
Seasons 3 and 4 are both pretty good with a few outstanding high points, but they don't pace/juggle their stories as cleanly and lack the clarity of purpose that seasons 2 or 6 had, IMO
Season 5 is pretty dire. It's like season 2 of Friday Night Lights, but it doesn't have the excuses of network meddling and a writer's strike like FNL did