The transition team has drafted a new document of Guiding Principles and New Rules for our community. These rules will go into effect on November 25. 2024.
[Diablo] Vessel of Hatred & S6: Spiritborn, etc. & Realmwalkers
Well there was a small "stealth nerf" to jacinth shell, the spiritborn unique that makes all cooldowns absurdly low, it doesn't reduce quite as hard now. Previously I could just barely maintain counterattack permanently (i.e. 100% evade all the time, nothing broken about that...), now I'll need to hunt for some actual CDR to do that.
Far as I can tell they did not compensate the evade spiritborn skills with buffs like the lightning sorc got in S5, so that build may be dead compared to the quills and Touch o Deaths now.
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
The weird thing is that Uniques and Legendaries definitely invert in the endgame. Getting Uniques is trivial because they all have the same stats, they drop like candy from Lairs. So all you are chasing is good rolls on the stats + GAs if you are lucky. Meanwhile the best Ancestral Legendaries often have 2 rare stats (BiS for gloves is Quill/Attack Speed/Life for instance, hitting a +quill on every Masterwork for stupid rarity), and are really difficult to fish for. '
I do think I'm done though, I dropped a Tyr after an hour of standing in Andariels room, salvaging inventories full of uniques, and then got to the respec portion and was thinking "but why am I doing this"
do it for the bois
i will get them to 50
i really need to get a ga mage on head and this one was painful. and need shoes... shoes....
EDIT: 50million gold later, I can confirm that +skeletal warrior on shoes is fuckin rare lads
surrealitycheck on
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited October 18
interestingly, your merc counts as a minion when it shows up for reinforcements because it interrupts ring of mendeln like the spirit wolves (idk why this is a thing? why is the count shared and reset? i was messing around in the dummy room because i was getting weird mendeln numbers and they FUCKED its mechanics lol)
idk what they did to ring of mendeln i didnt read patchnotes but its double dipping grasping veins now but still scaling from player bonuses
and bone spear cast by mages is still scaled just by your stuff only
idk it's all spaghet let me staple 2 skeletons together and ride them like a pony
interestingly, your merc counts as a minion when it shows up for reinforcements because it interrupts ring of mendeln like the spirit wolves (idk why this is a thing? why is the count shared and reset? i was messing around in the dummy room because i was getting weird mendeln numbers and they FUCKED its mechanics lol
On this note, I ran into a puzzle cellar in Nahantu, the one where you have to trip floorplates in the right order. Not only does your merc trip these making them impossible to complete, even your pet does. No, not your wolf or skeleton, the little dog or cat following you picking up mats.
+1
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
i had one of those and i was like "my skeletons are gonna fuck me" and one of them accidentally ran right round onto the right square and solved it and i was like thank u bud
Wait, so are mercs fucking up stuff like 'stand alone' for necros who sacrifice minions, like pets used to? Albeit very briefly.
they only partially count sometimes because spaghet
related
man ring of mendeln fuckin sucks. instead of having minions that scale with lots of things, minion builds are just mendeln builds. it replaces completely their base damage to such an absurd extent, doesnt work with stuff like skirmisher you crit it crits synergies, doesnt work with double attacks properly, doesnt work with them casting bone spear or w/e...
i just dont understand why they have designed things this way. if u want to play a minion build ur just down an item slot and ur entire build is warped around jacking off the literal only item u can use to scale minion damage properly, and all other choices are meaningless. if they just removed it and made minions scale better with more things baseline, and then added uniques that worked with their existing scaling and mechanics instead of replacing it, it would make so much more sense. i really think theyve accepted the idea that you are just going to be running certain uniques without thinking through the implications of that for how badly it constricts underlying build space, but its especially bad when the only way to build something is also obviously bugged to high heaven and stupid.
imagine if there was a second minion unique oh wait lol
ive had enough im going to hang out with my bone spirit hes my only real friend these days
There seems to be some weird new bug where mercenary status/use case isn't updating correctly.
I have a merc because I'm soloing. I join my wife. Said merc fucks off, as is their way... but no reinforcement is set.
So I go set a reinforcement.
We finish a dungeon. I see a note about the merc going away because I'm in a party, if I want a reinforcement I should go get one.
... I had one. Why are you checking that I'm in a party ten minutes into my being in a party?
I might be slightly off on the chain of events, but it was an annoying situation where I had to keep grabbing a merc while running around last night. Hopefully whatever hiccup it is, they fix it soon.
I support union workers, but this 'taking a break after every dungeon' or whatever is too much.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
+1
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
There seems to be some weird new bug where mercenary status/use case isn't updating correctly.
I have a merc because I'm soloing. I join my wife. Said merc fucks off, as is their way... but no reinforcement is set.
So I go set a reinforcement.
We finish a dungeon. I see a note about the merc going away because I'm in a party, if I want a reinforcement I should go get one.
... I had one. Why are you checking that I'm in a party ten minutes into my being in a party?
I might be slightly off on the chain of events, but it was an annoying situation where I had to keep grabbing a merc while running around last night. Hopefully whatever hiccup it is, they fix it soon.
I support union workers, but this 'taking a break after every dungeon' or whatever is too much.
Whether you can even use mercs or go to the den depends on world status. If your party leader hasn’t unlocked mercs, you can’t even use reinforcements. You need to be the party leader by inviting your wife. (unless you’re trying to progress her campaign…)
I have heard similar about rune and tribute drops which are also ties to quests, but have yet to verify myself.
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
theyve also locked certain players from getting certain resource aspect drops because they know it would cause too much fun, im a victim of this, pls contact jeffrey blizzard and flame him this is unacceptable
hard farming rings and still at half of max value for max resource per minion sadge
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Speaking of BiS...I got some ancestral gloves with two BiS superstats on them, got two really good temper rolls...and have now spent 85'ish million trying to fix the dead stat.
Whether you can even use mercs or go to the den depends on world status. If your party leader hasn’t unlocked mercs, you can’t even use reinforcements. You need to be the party leader by inviting your wife. (unless you’re trying to progress her campaign…)
We're both in Torment 2. We finished the campaign last week. We've both had mercenaries for days now.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Whether you can even use mercs or go to the den depends on world status. If your party leader hasn’t unlocked mercs, you can’t even use reinforcements. You need to be the party leader by inviting your wife. (unless you’re trying to progress her campaign…)
We're both in Torment 2. We finished the campaign last week. We've both had mercenaries for days now.
Interesting. Did you both unlock all of the mercs? Are the levels of the mercs tracked independently?
Only been playing with someone without the expansion, as long as I’m leader nothing funny happens to the reinforcement. Just spurious messages about my main constantly leaving.
Merc level I think follows your level. Merc reputation is tracked per mercenary, and is based on using them. Main merc gets 100%, secondary merc gets 50% rep.
Merc level I think follows your level. Merc reputation is tracked per mercenary, and is based on using them. Main merc gets 100%, secondary merc gets 50% rep.
My question is whether rep is tracked independently on characters or if its part of “world state” that usually follows party leader.
Merc level I think follows your level. Merc reputation is tracked per mercenary, and is based on using them. Main merc gets 100%, secondary merc gets 50% rep.
My question is whether rep is tracked independently on characters or if its part of “world state” that usually follows party leader.
I get rep on my mercenaries when I am grouped with someone else as group leader. Forar and I were grouped yesterday and I saw my main merc level up mid-dungeon.
I don't know if it's account wide or character specific, but would expect the latter.
I believe merc level is shared across characters per realm, not between seasons. I assume that the rapport you earn in a group belongs to you and not the group leader.
I finished the campaign with a spiritborn and then immediately rolled a minion necro, can confirm that merc level is shared between (seasonal) characters.
Yeah, I haven't had any issues with them gaining rapport or advancing the track.
But my understanding was that if you were in a party, your solo merc would take off. I'd hoped/assumed they'd just automatically become the reinforcement merc, because going to the den every time you swap from soloing to grouping would be a pain in the ass.
Going to the merc den, hiring a reinforcement, and then having the game go 'oh, by the way, you should go hire a reinforcement' caught me by surprise. I just did that a few minutes ago. The party state didn't change in any way other than we finished a dungeon. I was left wondering why my reinforcement window was empty. It had Subo in there doing his thing mere minutes prior.
Maybe it was just some weird fringe thing and won't come back, but for those who are swapping between grouping and soloing, it's something to keep an eye out for at least.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
i rerolled my sorc from a good build that was going hard to literally the worst piece of shit meme helm of lucion build with 2k hp and all the awful fireball uniques (and im wearing axial conduit purely for the resource mod and its just so stupid looking and bad im havin a blast
and the best part is even with all these memes stacked up the conjured daggers are competitive with the fireballs
Yeah, I haven't had any issues with them gaining rapport or advancing the track.
But my understanding was that if you were in a party, your solo merc would take off. I'd hoped/assumed they'd just automatically become the reinforcement merc, because going to the den every time you swap from soloing to grouping would be a pain in the ass.
Going to the merc den, hiring a reinforcement, and then having the game go 'oh, by the way, you should go hire a reinforcement' caught me by surprise. I just did that a few minutes ago. The party state didn't change in any way other than we finished a dungeon. I was left wondering why my reinforcement window was empty. It had Subo in there doing his thing mere minutes prior.
Maybe it was just some weird fringe thing and won't come back, but for those who are swapping between grouping and soloing, it's something to keep an eye out for at least.
There's nothing like your main merc moving to reinforcement automatically. You set your main and reinforcement merc as active simultaneously in the den, and then they will both be active with you sololing stuff (albeit splitting rapport progress I think). Join a party and assuming no world state nonsense, the main one leaves and the reinforcement stays. I don't think reinforcement is supposed to be able to be the same as main, if you can set it that way there might be bugs.
Your hired merc always gains 100% rapport, regardless of whether you have a reinforcement merc or not.
Your reinforcement merc gains 50% rapport if you have an active hired merc and 100% rapport if you do not. If your hired merc is forced back to the den when you join a multiplayer party, your reinforcement merc will start gaining 100% rapport from that point onward.
The ability your reinforcement merc performs is a baseline, unmodified version of the skill. None of the the passives in their skill tree apply, not even the ones that are specifically for that ability only. So when choosing your hired merc, you take everything into account, especially their passives. Whereas when choosing your reinforcement merc, only the text in the tooltip of that one specific skill matters.
doin undercity boss mat tribute runs in a group feels pretty ok now - they are very fast and you usually get 12-16 different summon mats (at least on t4) - you can basically sustain a pretty healthy amount of duriel/andariel runs without being hamstrung by the lower bosses
This is the future. This is what we built. This is what we wanted. It must have been. Because we all had the fucking choice, didn't we? It is only our money that allows commercial culture to flower. If we didn't want to live like this, we could have changed it at any time, by not fucking paying for it.
So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
+4
BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
Man I just lost all desire to play this when spiritborn is quite literally one thousand times stronger than any other class and that doesn't look to be changing any time soon
im just taking it as a season to be a superhero - they will be brought down to earth soon enough, the new xpac will be old news, and barbarians will once again find their way back to the top of the food chain. this was basically seen a mile away based on what all the beta testers were able to see, and their policy of not nerfing anything in season that isn't actively crippling the server. it feels like 95% of the playerbase has also decided to go that route, which makes all activities hilarious.
This is the future. This is what we built. This is what we wanted. It must have been. Because we all had the fucking choice, didn't we? It is only our money that allows commercial culture to flower. If we didn't want to live like this, we could have changed it at any time, by not fucking paying for it.
So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited October 19
i was bored of spiritborn by level 44 for some reason the class feels awful and overdesigned so ive just been enjoying fuckin around on the normie classes
being able to get more uniques faster means just makin random things is quite fun, no point in comparing anything to stuff that's obviously not balanced, just gotta compare your dudes to themselves. and be sad that frederic the skeletal mage is refusing to study his scrolls
If you nerf the most popular builds for the most popular class by 10x or more mid-season, it's going to cause a scandal. They just have to fix any actual exploits and then ride it out.
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
its kinda funny how thats become the default position for always online pve games now (not blaming blizz)
a subset of the gaming population has such a hair trigger on their anal sphincter that they will shit the bed at the slightest hint of a nerf and they're not rational, aren't interested in whether or not the game is improved, can't be reasoned with and so games are just going "lmao guess we just won't nerf basically ever unless we can roll it into huge updates". ive been involved with multiple games where balance iteration has been slowed to a crawl by a moronic 5% of the audience who just want to review bomb or mald on reddit or w/e
ah well maybe in 5 years culture will have moved on (lmao)
So it turns out all I needed to do to pass the Torment 2 capstone was to masterwork each piece of my gear exactly 1 time and grab my third legendary paragon node.
Now monsters in the overworld are doing some decent damage and the campaign is exciting again!
I mean if you are against a subset of incredibly overpowered couple of builds with lower effort (the big stupid hitting spirit builds need a lot of gearing) id probably just stay away from arpgs because they all have them in one way or another.
It turns out that people don't actually care about nerfs. What they actually get mad about is investing time into a build that then has its value suddenly stripped away. It's the lost time that's the point of anger, not the nerf itself.
That's why seasonal models work so well for PvE games. When you condition players to expect regular fresh starts, it gives you a natural rebalancing point.
Yeah. They have found a pretty good middle ground. And the grind factor from the xpac is a step in the correct way. It also is worth noting that the amount of time people put into builds in this game are equal to the runtime of single player games in AAA releases. Even to the rpg space heh. You arent going to magically do trillions of damage with a sprit borne without putting in a ton of hours of grinding either.
Jubal77 on
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited October 19
alas there is some of that but the major shitfests ive seen which resulted in eg cms getting death threats or devs getting doxxed for being DEI hires were both in cases where no time was lost and the thing in question remained the best at what it did
one particularly instructive one could be the review bomb that darktide had after the final power sword nerf a few months after release, and it remained the best veteran melee weapon by a long way. there is no secretly reasonable explanation here; nobody at companies wants to deal with this shit and its become a weirdly political crossover thing to boot (hence the helldivers 2 dev who got stalked on the basis that he was a "DEI hire" because he was pro minor nerfs to overperforming weapons). reasonable people who get mildly annoyed by balance adjustments that force them to adjust their builds and lost them some time arent the ones causing the major headaches
(tho in general d4 is not really particularly suffering here relative to other stuff because, yeah, full restart every so often and everything beyond a certain point is just for the memes anyway)
Finally got around to beating Dark Citadel. The mechanics are basically baby's first raid, they require just paying a minimal amount of attention, which turns out to be too much for most Diablo players. So I think they could use more guidance in the UI. The custom difficulty selection makes the combat a little meaningless, because the moment the enemy has a health bar they're going to get melted. The monster density is also very low throughout. So actually the entire thing is just about raid mechanics - I guess it's fine for a change of pace.
From the number of coins that a full clear got me, I'd have to do it about 8 times to get a single cosmetic purchase. So that's not ever happening.
Zek on
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
i mean i wasnt planning on building that but ok game
if u want to play a minion build ur just down an item slot
i really think theyve accepted the idea that you are just going to be running certain uniques without thinking through the implications of that for how badly it constricts underlying build space
I have to admit, there's something sad about replacing an aspect in your build with a unique.
When you add an aspect to your build, you're choosing it over dozens of other options, so it feels more personal. It's your choice, your build.
Uniques feel a lot more obligatory. "I'm technically using the skill this cares about in my build. I guess I should put it on." That's how I felt tonight when I got an ancestral version of the boots that make Bone Prison really big.
This can happen with aspects too, I think it just comes down to having fairly limited options... and Blizzard likes releasing those options slowly and deliberately. Barring some new customization layer like PoE support gems or something, this seems to be how they prefer to control the build space. Even that game can feel limiting at times, but really it just helps to have more options to throw at the wall.
To your point, I was excited this morning to move my seasonal bonuses into curiosities and pull both Ebewaka and Kepeleke out of about 600 obols, but since those are pushed pretty hard on spiritborn in general at the moment those two slots are pretty much done for quite a while, even if/when I change to another build.
Posts
Far as I can tell they did not compensate the evade spiritborn skills with buffs like the lightning sorc got in S5, so that build may be dead compared to the quills and Touch o Deaths now.
do it for the bois
i will get them to 50
i really need to get a ga mage on head and this one was painful. and need shoes... shoes....
EDIT: 50million gold later, I can confirm that +skeletal warrior on shoes is fuckin rare lads
idk what they did to ring of mendeln i didnt read patchnotes but its double dipping grasping veins now but still scaling from player bonuses
and bone spear cast by mages is still scaled just by your stuff only
idk it's all spaghet let me staple 2 skeletons together and ride them like a pony
On this note, I ran into a puzzle cellar in Nahantu, the one where you have to trip floorplates in the right order. Not only does your merc trip these making them impossible to complete, even your pet does. No, not your wolf or skeleton, the little dog or cat following you picking up mats.
they only partially count sometimes because spaghet
related
man ring of mendeln fuckin sucks. instead of having minions that scale with lots of things, minion builds are just mendeln builds. it replaces completely their base damage to such an absurd extent, doesnt work with stuff like skirmisher you crit it crits synergies, doesnt work with double attacks properly, doesnt work with them casting bone spear or w/e...
i just dont understand why they have designed things this way. if u want to play a minion build ur just down an item slot and ur entire build is warped around jacking off the literal only item u can use to scale minion damage properly, and all other choices are meaningless. if they just removed it and made minions scale better with more things baseline, and then added uniques that worked with their existing scaling and mechanics instead of replacing it, it would make so much more sense. i really think theyve accepted the idea that you are just going to be running certain uniques without thinking through the implications of that for how badly it constricts underlying build space, but its especially bad when the only way to build something is also obviously bugged to high heaven and stupid.
imagine if there was a second minion unique oh wait lol
ive had enough im going to hang out with my bone spirit hes my only real friend these days
EDIT: fuk he exploded rip to a real one
I have a merc because I'm soloing. I join my wife. Said merc fucks off, as is their way... but no reinforcement is set.
So I go set a reinforcement.
We finish a dungeon. I see a note about the merc going away because I'm in a party, if I want a reinforcement I should go get one.
... I had one. Why are you checking that I'm in a party ten minutes into my being in a party?
I might be slightly off on the chain of events, but it was an annoying situation where I had to keep grabbing a merc while running around last night. Hopefully whatever hiccup it is, they fix it soon.
I support union workers, but this 'taking a break after every dungeon' or whatever is too much.
skeletons get weekends and mondays off
golems are fired
bone spirits get ubi
Whether you can even use mercs or go to the den depends on world status. If your party leader hasn’t unlocked mercs, you can’t even use reinforcements. You need to be the party leader by inviting your wife. (unless you’re trying to progress her campaign…)
I have heard similar about rune and tribute drops which are also ties to quests, but have yet to verify myself.
hard farming rings and still at half of max value for max resource per minion sadge
We're both in Torment 2. We finished the campaign last week. We've both had mercenaries for days now.
Interesting. Did you both unlock all of the mercs? Are the levels of the mercs tracked independently?
Only been playing with someone without the expansion, as long as I’m leader nothing funny happens to the reinforcement. Just spurious messages about my main constantly leaving.
My question is whether rep is tracked independently on characters or if its part of “world state” that usually follows party leader.
I get rep on my mercenaries when I am grouped with someone else as group leader. Forar and I were grouped yesterday and I saw my main merc level up mid-dungeon.
I don't know if it's account wide or character specific, but would expect the latter.
But my understanding was that if you were in a party, your solo merc would take off. I'd hoped/assumed they'd just automatically become the reinforcement merc, because going to the den every time you swap from soloing to grouping would be a pain in the ass.
Going to the merc den, hiring a reinforcement, and then having the game go 'oh, by the way, you should go hire a reinforcement' caught me by surprise. I just did that a few minutes ago. The party state didn't change in any way other than we finished a dungeon. I was left wondering why my reinforcement window was empty. It had Subo in there doing his thing mere minutes prior.
Maybe it was just some weird fringe thing and won't come back, but for those who are swapping between grouping and soloing, it's something to keep an eye out for at least.
and the best part is even with all these memes stacked up the conjured daggers are competitive with the fireballs
funny number tho
There's nothing like your main merc moving to reinforcement automatically. You set your main and reinforcement merc as active simultaneously in the den, and then they will both be active with you sololing stuff (albeit splitting rapport progress I think). Join a party and assuming no world state nonsense, the main one leaves and the reinforcement stays. I don't think reinforcement is supposed to be able to be the same as main, if you can set it that way there might be bugs.
Your reinforcement merc gains 50% rapport if you have an active hired merc and 100% rapport if you do not. If your hired merc is forced back to the den when you join a multiplayer party, your reinforcement merc will start gaining 100% rapport from that point onward.
The ability your reinforcement merc performs is a baseline, unmodified version of the skill. None of the the passives in their skill tree apply, not even the ones that are specifically for that ability only. So when choosing your hired merc, you take everything into account, especially their passives. Whereas when choosing your reinforcement merc, only the text in the tooltip of that one specific skill matters.
So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
being able to get more uniques faster means just makin random things is quite fun, no point in comparing anything to stuff that's obviously not balanced, just gotta compare your dudes to themselves. and be sad that frederic the skeletal mage is refusing to study his scrolls
a subset of the gaming population has such a hair trigger on their anal sphincter that they will shit the bed at the slightest hint of a nerf and they're not rational, aren't interested in whether or not the game is improved, can't be reasoned with and so games are just going "lmao guess we just won't nerf basically ever unless we can roll it into huge updates". ive been involved with multiple games where balance iteration has been slowed to a crawl by a moronic 5% of the audience who just want to review bomb or mald on reddit or w/e
ah well maybe in 5 years culture will have moved on (lmao)
Now monsters in the overworld are doing some decent damage and the campaign is exciting again!
That's why seasonal models work so well for PvE games. When you condition players to expect regular fresh starts, it gives you a natural rebalancing point.
one particularly instructive one could be the review bomb that darktide had after the final power sword nerf a few months after release, and it remained the best veteran melee weapon by a long way. there is no secretly reasonable explanation here; nobody at companies wants to deal with this shit and its become a weirdly political crossover thing to boot (hence the helldivers 2 dev who got stalked on the basis that he was a "DEI hire" because he was pro minor nerfs to overperforming weapons). reasonable people who get mildly annoyed by balance adjustments that force them to adjust their builds and lost them some time arent the ones causing the major headaches
(tho in general d4 is not really particularly suffering here relative to other stuff because, yeah, full restart every so often and everything beyond a certain point is just for the memes anyway)
From the number of coins that a full clear got me, I'd have to do it about 8 times to get a single cosmetic purchase. So that's not ever happening.
I have to admit, there's something sad about replacing an aspect in your build with a unique.
When you add an aspect to your build, you're choosing it over dozens of other options, so it feels more personal. It's your choice, your build.
Uniques feel a lot more obligatory. "I'm technically using the skill this cares about in my build. I guess I should put it on." That's how I felt tonight when I got an ancestral version of the boots that make Bone Prison really big.
To your point, I was excited this morning to move my seasonal bonuses into curiosities and pull both Ebewaka and Kepeleke out of about 600 obols, but since those are pushed pretty hard on spiritborn in general at the moment those two slots are pretty much done for quite a while, even if/when I change to another build.