Its a tangent, but in this instance I think it was very effective.
Anyone can build a primitive shotgun on their kitchen table with around $10-$15 worth of materials, which can be concealed anywhere you can conceal an 18-24" length of 3/4" pipe (inside of a coat, down a pant leg, whatever). It is not a complicated process either, if you can build a Lego set than you can build a firearm. If you duct tape a piece of scrap wood to it to function as a "stock" (to bring the entire thing to a minimum length) its even legal in most of the country.
Please do not give handy tips for building your own firearm in the thread about a mass shooting, fucking Christ.
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Its a tangent, but in this instance I think it was very effective.
Anyone can build a primitive shotgun on their kitchen table with around $10-$15 worth of materials, which can be concealed anywhere you can conceal an 18-24" length of 3/4" pipe (inside of a coat, down a pant leg, whatever). It is not a complicated process either, if you can build a Lego set than you can build a firearm. If you duct tape a piece of scrap wood to it to function as a "stock" (to bring the entire thing to a minimum length) its even legal in most of the country.
It's also not a device capable of rapidly firing large quantities of bullets and killing lots of people, so it's entirely irrelevant to the discussions being had about gun control.
Please do not give handy tips for building your own firearm in the thread about a mass shooting, fucking Christ.
Its not "handy tips for building your own firearm", its a response to the notion that a homemade gun is ineffective, easily noticeable, or difficult/dangerous to manufacture.
Homemade firearms aren't used in mass shootings, in fact they generally aren't used in shootings at all. Couple that with one being used in a shooting that both took place in a nation with very little gun crime that targeted a government official makes the story very unusual.
It's also not a device capable of rapidly firing large quantities of bullets and killing lots of people, so it's entirely irrelevant to the discussions being had about gun control.
I already made this point, and it is also why the first three words of the post you are quoting are "It's a tangent".
Please do not give handy tips for building your own firearm in the thread about a mass shooting, fucking Christ.
Its not "handy tips for building your own firearm", its a response to the notion that a homemade gun is ineffective, easily noticeable, or difficult/dangerous to manufacture.
Homemade firearms aren't used in mass shootings, in fact they generally aren't used in shootings at all. Couple that with one being used in a shooting that both took place in a nation with very little gun crime that targeted a government official makes the story very unusual.
It's also not a device capable of rapidly firing large quantities of bullets and killing lots of people, so it's entirely irrelevant to the discussions being had about gun control.
I already made this point, and it is also why the first three words of the post you are quoting are "It's a tangent".
but in this instance I think it was very effective.
An 8 year old boy was paralyzed from the waist down after getting shot in the chest. A two year old is now an orphan because both his parents are dead. I really, really fucking hate this terrorist asshole and his enablers.
I have been seeing some talk online that this fellow is your classic alt-right chud, has an SS tattoo and so forth. I can’t find anything more credible than some stuff on twitter though, so has any reputable news talked about his beliefs?
So far, my impression was he didn't have any.
Like, he showed up to events, but it seemed more an opportunity to 'gram or whatever than actually giving a fuck about anything. But there may be new information.
I have been seeing some talk online that this fellow is your classic alt-right chud, has an SS tattoo and so forth. I can’t find anything more credible than some stuff on twitter though, so has any reputable news talked about his beliefs?
So far, my impression was he didn't have any.
Like, he showed up to events, but it seemed more an opportunity to 'gram or whatever than actually giving a fuck about anything. But there may be new information.
Also, there's no overt racial motive in the actual killing, as opposed to someone wanting to kill people in order to kill people. When an alt-right asshole decides to go on an alt-right killing spree, they make their motive obvious, because that's the point. If you wanted a motive, I'd point to his presence on gore forums before discussing any alt-right tendencies.
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BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
edited April 19
Best I've been able to glean is that he was a pseudo-typical misfit growing up, loads of social issues. Dropped out of high school at 17, never really had a close group of friends, and was really into macabre stuff, based on what I've seen of his social media history (and some just plain weird, like conveying teddy bears in the rear seat of his car everywhere he went, taking pictures of a sex doll he named Sophie, putting decals on the front of the car to look like a WWII fighter plane, etc...)
2019 is when he seemingly started to really crack, threatened suicide by machete in April, threatened to kill everyone in his house in September or October (this incident lead to his then arsenal getting seized, parents didn't press charges and his dad cosigned for the FOID and he started stockpiling again in 2020). His mom supposedly does holistic/alternative medicine and while the parents claimed they got him some mental health treatment after the violent threats, it's anybody guess if it was homeopathy vs more traditional counseling/meds.
Parents have lawyered up with dad claiming there were no "red flags" and he has no regrets letting/helping his son start back into buying weapons.
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No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
There's some headline on CNN about the shooter's dad and family life and Im like I dont give a fuck? From what ive heard of his dad, he's a real piece of work too and should be thrown in jail, not given sympathy pieces.
There's fromn headline on CNN about the shooter's dad and family life and Im like I dont give a fuck? From what ive heard of his dad, he's a real piece.of work too
The part that's relevant is that father knew about the son's mental issues and personally cosigned paperwork to get his son what he used for mass murder. The father, at a minimum, should serve the jail sentence for every murder and injury inflicted, he's 100% culpable.
I sorta recall the widow of a gun nut saying in a speech after her husband's death about how "guns can heal" or some such nonsense. The constant claims of false flags just show how they can't even imagine guns being used against white people.
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"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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DabbleIt has been a doozy of a dayRegistered Userregular
edited April 19
Guns are the perfect therapy! Why, just ask Chris Kyle.
Yeah, he seems less like a political terrorist like we've been seeing lately and more like a serial killer. The very public kind that gets caught after their first murder, I guess.
So what I'm seeing here, is guns don't kill people, parent's kill people, so we should regulate/ban parents?
Less tongue in cheek, and this leads down a possibly dangerous path, parenting is HARD and there is no real good guidebook that is foolproof. Not everyone SHOULD be a parent, and I think this is a perfect case. While this dad OBVIOUSLY seems culpable, both in ignoring red flags as well as co-signing the FOID (Why is this even a THING?!?!?!), it would be nice if there was a way to sort this kind of thing out ahead of time, but we would never agree one what is a "valid" parenting style.
There's fromn headline on CNN about the shooter's dad and family life and Im like I dont give a fuck? From what ive heard of his dad, he's a real piece.of work too
The part that's relevant is that father knew about the son's mental issues and personally cosigned paperwork to get his son what he used for mass murder. The father, at a minimum, should serve the jail sentence for every murder and injury inflicted, he's 100% culpable.
Yeah, the problem is the age of the numbnut at the time of the shooting to purchase of those weapons without the cosigner.
From a moral perspective, it's irrelevant, the father is absolutely culpable. He should have been throwing up red flags all over the place, and getting his son psychological help. That's absolutely on him.
From a legal perspective it's a little murkier. Once numbnut turned of age, I'm not sure the law cares what the father signed. And to be fair, I can understand that. Father signing at 18, and it matters at 21? 31? 41?
One he's no longer a minor, how long is his parent still legally responsible?
I think his father should be, I'm just not sure the law will also.
If you're worried about forever liability, just set an alternate cap. 18 years old or 5 years after issue, whatever comes last
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Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
So what I'm seeing here, is guns don't kill people, parent's kill people, so we should regulate/ban parents?
Less tongue in cheek, and this leads down a possibly dangerous path, parenting is HARD and there is no real good guidebook that is foolproof. Not everyone SHOULD be a parent, and I think this is a perfect case. While this dad OBVIOUSLY seems culpable, both in ignoring red flags as well as co-signing the FOID (Why is this even a THING?!?!?!), it would be nice if there was a way to sort this kind of thing out ahead of time, but we would never agree one what is a "valid" parenting style.
I'm really not worried about a slippery slope of criticizing parenting based on what I've heard from this case
So what I'm seeing here, is guns don't kill people, parent's kill people, so we should regulate/ban parents?
Less tongue in cheek, and this leads down a possibly dangerous path, parenting is HARD and there is no real good guidebook that is foolproof. Not everyone SHOULD be a parent, and I think this is a perfect case. While this dad OBVIOUSLY seems culpable, both in ignoring red flags as well as co-signing the FOID (Why is this even a THING?!?!?!), it would be nice if there was a way to sort this kind of thing out ahead of time, but we would never agree one what is a "valid" parenting style.
I'm really not worried about a slippery slope of criticizing parenting based on what I've heard from this case
This has seemed like a pattern that's consistently showing up not only in mass shooters, but also in white nationalist shootings, and during the insurrection. Many of these young men are financially supported by aloof parents ignoring giant red warning bells in their kids*, while often knowingly allowing them to be around or have weapons. Even worse, are the parents that seem to do everything they can to indirectly make sure their son is an instrument of fascism.
But. How do you really stop your rowdy teen from becoming radicalized by the internet, you can't just force them into therapy. And you can't really stop them from buying a gun at 21, beyond reporting them to the state as violent.
*Often to their own detriment, as in Uvalde and Sandy Hook, the shooter shot or killed a guardian/parent first.
So what I'm seeing here, is guns don't kill people, parent's kill people, so we should regulate/ban parents?
Less tongue in cheek, and this leads down a possibly dangerous path, parenting is HARD and there is no real good guidebook that is foolproof. Not everyone SHOULD be a parent, and I think this is a perfect case. While this dad OBVIOUSLY seems culpable, both in ignoring red flags as well as co-signing the FOID (Why is this even a THING?!?!?!), it would be nice if there was a way to sort this kind of thing out ahead of time, but we would never agree one what is a "valid" parenting style.
I'm really not worried about a slippery slope of criticizing parenting based on what I've heard from this case
Sure, don't disagree. When I referred to it being a dangerous path is that you can easily come up with cases that are incredibly borderline. Corporal punishment? Teaching intolerance? Letting children play with age inappropriate things? Thought I was pretty clear that wasn't the case here.
So what I'm seeing here, is guns don't kill people, parent's kill people, so we should regulate/ban parents?
Less tongue in cheek, and this leads down a possibly dangerous path, parenting is HARD and there is no real good guidebook that is foolproof. Not everyone SHOULD be a parent, and I think this is a perfect case. While this dad OBVIOUSLY seems culpable, both in ignoring red flags as well as co-signing the FOID (Why is this even a THING?!?!?!), it would be nice if there was a way to sort this kind of thing out ahead of time, but we would never agree one what is a "valid" parenting style.
I'm really not worried about a slippery slope of criticizing parenting based on what I've heard from this case
Sure, don't disagree. When I referred to it being a dangerous path is that you can easily come up with cases that are incredibly borderline. Corporal punishment? Teaching intolerance? Letting children play with age inappropriate things? Thought I was pretty clear that wasn't the case here.
I guess maybe it seems like it's kind of off topic on this thread then, based on what you're saying?
So what I'm seeing here, is guns don't kill people, parent's kill people, so we should regulate/ban parents?
Less tongue in cheek, and this leads down a possibly dangerous path, parenting is HARD and there is no real good guidebook that is foolproof. Not everyone SHOULD be a parent, and I think this is a perfect case. While this dad OBVIOUSLY seems culpable, both in ignoring red flags as well as co-signing the FOID (Why is this even a THING?!?!?!), it would be nice if there was a way to sort this kind of thing out ahead of time, but we would never agree one what is a "valid" parenting style.
I'm really not worried about a slippery slope of criticizing parenting based on what I've heard from this case
This has seemed like a pattern that's consistently showing up not only in mass shooters, but also in white nationalist shootings, and during the insurrection. Many of these young men are financially supported by aloof parents ignoring giant red warning bells in their kids*, while often knowingly allowing them to be around or have weapons. Even worse, are the parents that seem to do everything they can to indirectly make sure their son is an instrument of fascism.
But. How do you really stop your rowdy teen from becoming radicalized by the internet, you can't just force them into therapy. And you can't really stop them from buying a gun at 21, beyond reporting them to the state as violent.
*Often to their own detriment, as in Uvalde and Sandy Hook, the shooter shot or killed a guardian/parent first.
Unless there's a specific threat, even red flag laws won't kick in under a general warning of "this person is violent."
And honestly, that's probably the right route. The fact that people without criminal history will commit a mass shooting should factor in to how we determine who has access to what firearms.
Relying on family or friends to report the person is fraught with vectors for control/abuse and, as is evident in this case, extremely unreliable - the dad co-signed his firearm license.
I'm very much in the "ban all guns" camp anyways, but things like this just blow my mind.
Unless there's a specific threat, even red flag laws won't kick in under a general warning of "this person is violent."
And honestly, that's probably the right route.
The line immediately after that, which you left out, justifies banning most/all guns.
Thanks for misrepresenting my point, though.
I'm rereading that line and not understanding what you're saying I guess, if that's what it's supposed to mean. Sorry for misunderstanding, it's going way over my head lol
I'm very much in the "ban all guns" camp anyways, but things like this just blow my mind.
Unless there's a specific threat, even red flag laws won't kick in under a general warning of "this person is violent."
And honestly, that's probably the right route.
The line immediately after that, which you left out, justifies banning most/all guns.
Thanks for misrepresenting my point, though.
I'm rereading that line and not understanding what you're saying I guess, if that's what it's supposed to mean. Sorry for misunderstood, it's going way over my head lol
To be more clear, I'm saying that gun laws need to be written to account for the fact that some portion of people go from "law abiding citizen" to mass shooter without much warning that the government could reasonably be expected to take action on.
I'm very much in the "ban all guns" camp anyways, but things like this just blow my mind.
Unless there's a specific threat, even red flag laws won't kick in under a general warning of "this person is violent."
And honestly, that's probably the right route.
The line immediately after that, which you left out, justifies banning most/all guns.
Thanks for misrepresenting my point, though.
I'm rereading that line and not understanding what you're saying I guess, if that's what it's supposed to mean. Sorry for misunderstood, it's going way over my head lol
To be more clear, I'm saying that gun laws need to be written to account for the fact that some portion of people go from "law abiding citizen" to mass shooter without much warning that the government could reasonably be expected to take action on.
Also allowing family members control over adult children without legal recourse is very fraught.
I’m down with holding parents and other enablers accountable. However, if the shooter is legally an adult and legally purchased the firearms, punishment of enablers probably shouldn’t be a factor, unless they knew beforehand something was up.
As much as the dad is a goose in this situation, I’m not sure if charges are warranted. But that’s just my ignorant opinion.
What about a minimum liability window? That would discourage people from pulling stunts like cosigning licenses right before the age of majority.
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Please do not give handy tips for building your own firearm in the thread about a mass shooting, fucking Christ.
Legos are cool, MOCs are cool, check me out on Rebrickable!
I'm genuinely appalled that this is still a thing.
It's also not a device capable of rapidly firing large quantities of bullets and killing lots of people, so it's entirely irrelevant to the discussions being had about gun control.
Its not "handy tips for building your own firearm", its a response to the notion that a homemade gun is ineffective, easily noticeable, or difficult/dangerous to manufacture.
Homemade firearms aren't used in mass shootings, in fact they generally aren't used in shootings at all. Couple that with one being used in a shooting that both took place in a nation with very little gun crime that targeted a government official makes the story very unusual.
I already made this point, and it is also why the first three words of the post you are quoting are "It's a tangent".
It wasn't.
The target of the shooting is dead, which means that yes, it was very effective.
The tangent you goose.
I was referring to the gun as being effective. It was a response to this post:
I shouldn't have to explain this.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
So far, my impression was he didn't have any.
Like, he showed up to events, but it seemed more an opportunity to 'gram or whatever than actually giving a fuck about anything. But there may be new information.
Also, there's no overt racial motive in the actual killing, as opposed to someone wanting to kill people in order to kill people. When an alt-right asshole decides to go on an alt-right killing spree, they make their motive obvious, because that's the point. If you wanted a motive, I'd point to his presence on gore forums before discussing any alt-right tendencies.
2019 is when he seemingly started to really crack, threatened suicide by machete in April, threatened to kill everyone in his house in September or October (this incident lead to his then arsenal getting seized, parents didn't press charges and his dad cosigned for the FOID and he started stockpiling again in 2020). His mom supposedly does holistic/alternative medicine and while the parents claimed they got him some mental health treatment after the violent threats, it's anybody guess if it was homeopathy vs more traditional counseling/meds.
Parents have lawyered up with dad claiming there were no "red flags" and he has no regrets letting/helping his son start back into buying weapons.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
The part that's relevant is that father knew about the son's mental issues and personally cosigned paperwork to get his son what he used for mass murder. The father, at a minimum, should serve the jail sentence for every murder and injury inflicted, he's 100% culpable.
Less tongue in cheek, and this leads down a possibly dangerous path, parenting is HARD and there is no real good guidebook that is foolproof. Not everyone SHOULD be a parent, and I think this is a perfect case. While this dad OBVIOUSLY seems culpable, both in ignoring red flags as well as co-signing the FOID (Why is this even a THING?!?!?!), it would be nice if there was a way to sort this kind of thing out ahead of time, but we would never agree one what is a "valid" parenting style.
If you're worried about forever liability, just set an alternate cap. 18 years old or 5 years after issue, whatever comes last
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I'm really not worried about a slippery slope of criticizing parenting based on what I've heard from this case
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This has seemed like a pattern that's consistently showing up not only in mass shooters, but also in white nationalist shootings, and during the insurrection. Many of these young men are financially supported by aloof parents ignoring giant red warning bells in their kids*, while often knowingly allowing them to be around or have weapons. Even worse, are the parents that seem to do everything they can to indirectly make sure their son is an instrument of fascism.
But. How do you really stop your rowdy teen from becoming radicalized by the internet, you can't just force them into therapy. And you can't really stop them from buying a gun at 21, beyond reporting them to the state as violent.
*Often to their own detriment, as in Uvalde and Sandy Hook, the shooter shot or killed a guardian/parent first.
Sure, don't disagree. When I referred to it being a dangerous path is that you can easily come up with cases that are incredibly borderline. Corporal punishment? Teaching intolerance? Letting children play with age inappropriate things? Thought I was pretty clear that wasn't the case here.
I guess maybe it seems like it's kind of off topic on this thread then, based on what you're saying?
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Unless there's a specific threat, even red flag laws won't kick in under a general warning of "this person is violent."
And honestly, that's probably the right route. The fact that people without criminal history will commit a mass shooting should factor in to how we determine who has access to what firearms.
Relying on family or friends to report the person is fraught with vectors for control/abuse and, as is evident in this case, extremely unreliable - the dad co-signed his firearm license.
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The line immediately after that, which you left out, justifies banning most/all guns.
Thanks for misrepresenting my point, though.
I'm rereading that line and not understanding what you're saying I guess, if that's what it's supposed to mean. Sorry for misunderstanding, it's going way over my head lol
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To be more clear, I'm saying that gun laws need to be written to account for the fact that some portion of people go from "law abiding citizen" to mass shooter without much warning that the government could reasonably be expected to take action on.
Do you all have and good recommendations for a gravel/rail tie commuter? I don't want to break the bank and I'm only riding about 4 miles total.
Also allowing family members control over adult children without legal recourse is very fraught.
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As much as the dad is a goose in this situation, I’m not sure if charges are warranted. But that’s just my ignorant opinion.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.