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I WOULD HAVE WORDS WITH THEE (Thor Thread)

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Posts

  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    I would have words with thee?

    One of Thor's best moments.

    Basically Him, Captain America, Black Panther, Iron Man and a few others I forget are fighting their way through an army of Ultron robots.(One Ultron is usually enough for them, not to mention hundreds) while the main Ultron is monologuing in his base. Suddenly there's some crashing outside the base and the wall caves in, and Thor is standing there with his costume torn up, other Avengers in the background yelling:
    Ultron, we would have words with thee!

    Blankspace on
    SIG.gif
  • smokmnkysmokmnky Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    First book, so awesome seriously kick ass moments. I'm really looking forward to #2.

    smokmnky on
  • KumaKuma Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    im putting it on my pull list after reading the first issue

    Kuma on
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  • ReignerReigner Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Hmm, a good starting issue, but not the joygasm I was promised :P Maybe it's because I never really liked Thor before this and am trying to get into him now.

    Solid book though and I think I'll add it to my pull list.

    Reigner on
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  • JoeUserJoeUser Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Blankspace wrote: »
    I would have words with thee?

    One of Thor's best moments.

    Basically Him, Captain America, Black Panther, Iron Man and a few others I forget are fighting their way through an army of Ultron robots.(One Ultron is usually enough for them, not to mention hundreds) while the main Ultron is monologuing in his base. Suddenly there's some crashing outside the base and the wall caves in, and Thor is standing there with his costume torn up, other Avengers in the background yelling:
    Ultron, we would have words with thee!

    avengersiii22p14tq0.jpg

    JoeUser on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    That's some of the ugliest art I've ever seen published.

    mattharvest on
  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    Did you just call George Perez's art, some of the ugliest are published?


    The man who drew Crisis on Infinite Earths, The New Teen Titans, the Infinity Gauntlet and JLA/Avengers?


    While that isn't his best work, that isn't bad art by anyone's fault except the inker.

    Blankspace on
    SIG.gif
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    That also looks like an iffy scan. My HC copy of that looks better.

    Balefuego on
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  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Did you just call George Perez's art, some of the ugliest are published?


    The man who drew Crisis on Infinite Earths, The New Teen Titans, the Infinity Gauntlet and JLA/Avengers?


    While that isn't his best work, that isn't bad art by anyone's fault except the inker.

    Well, strictly speaking I was speaking only to the final work on those pages. Unlike you, I'm not sure I can differentiate where the extreme low quality of the penciling (none of the muscles/proportions are right, the hammer's handle doesn't appear to occupy volume in Thor's hand, etc.) and the extreme low quality of the ink separate. I won't even get into coloring.

    I wasn't making a single comment about any other work ever done by any of the artists involved. I was just saying that those pages, right there, suck worse than most stuff I've seen recently.

    EDIT: here's a short list of problems with it:
    1) None of the muscles attach to one-another.
    2) Thor's waist is narrower than his thigh.
    3) Mjolnir's handle occupies no volume in Thor's fist.
    4) There is no plane to the drawing: each figure simply occupies space, without any solid relationship to one another.
    5) The inker appears to believe that "squiggles"=="artistic detail".

    I could go on, but it's just bad art. Accept it. This isn't like debating whether the current artwork in New Avengers is any good (there are solid arguments both ways)...this is like debating whether a kindergardener's artwork is as good as a skilled professional's work.

    mattharvest on
  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Did you just call George Perez's art, some of the ugliest are published?


    The man who drew Crisis on Infinite Earths, The New Teen Titans, the Infinity Gauntlet and JLA/Avengers?


    While that isn't his best work, that isn't bad art by anyone's fault except the inker.

    Well, strictly speaking I was speaking only to the final work on those pages. Unlike you, I'm not sure I can differentiate where the extreme low quality of the penciling (none of the muscles/proportions are right, the hammer's handle doesn't appear to occupy volume in Thor's hand, etc.) and the extreme low quality of the ink separate. I won't even get into coloring.

    I wasn't making a single comment about any other work ever done by any of the artists involved. I was just saying that those pages, right there, suck worse than most stuff I've seen recently.

    I'm inclined to agree, I don't know if its a poor scan or what (I havent see the original) but that particular page really doesn't look that good.

    LockeCole on
  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    LockeCole wrote: »
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Did you just call George Perez's art, some of the ugliest are published?


    The man who drew Crisis on Infinite Earths, The New Teen Titans, the Infinity Gauntlet and JLA/Avengers?


    While that isn't his best work, that isn't bad art by anyone's fault except the inker.

    Well, strictly speaking I was speaking only to the final work on those pages. Unlike you, I'm not sure I can differentiate where the extreme low quality of the penciling (none of the muscles/proportions are right, the hammer's handle doesn't appear to occupy volume in Thor's hand, etc.) and the extreme low quality of the ink separate. I won't even get into coloring.

    I wasn't making a single comment about any other work ever done by any of the artists involved. I was just saying that those pages, right there, suck worse than most stuff I've seen recently.

    I'm inclined to agree, I don't know if its a poor scan or what (I havent see the original) but that particular page really doesn't look that good.
    Chances are it's the inkers mistake or a poor scan.

    Here's an example of Perez's normal work:
    ICperezcolor.jpg

    The inking is very precise and well done, and makes his pencils look much better.

    Blankspace on
    SIG.gif
  • LockeColeLockeCole Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Blankspace wrote: »
    LockeCole wrote: »
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Did you just call George Perez's art, some of the ugliest are published?


    The man who drew Crisis on Infinite Earths, The New Teen Titans, the Infinity Gauntlet and JLA/Avengers?


    While that isn't his best work, that isn't bad art by anyone's fault except the inker.

    Well, strictly speaking I was speaking only to the final work on those pages. Unlike you, I'm not sure I can differentiate where the extreme low quality of the penciling (none of the muscles/proportions are right, the hammer's handle doesn't appear to occupy volume in Thor's hand, etc.) and the extreme low quality of the ink separate. I won't even get into coloring.

    I wasn't making a single comment about any other work ever done by any of the artists involved. I was just saying that those pages, right there, suck worse than most stuff I've seen recently.

    I'm inclined to agree, I don't know if its a poor scan or what (I havent see the original) but that particular page really doesn't look that good.
    Chances are it's the inkers mistake or a poor scan.

    Here's an example of Perez's normal work:
    ICperezcolor.jpg

    The inking is very precise and well done, and makes his pencils look much better.

    Indeed, that looks very nice.

    LockeCole on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well it's better, good even, but it's nothing special. I think in this age - where there are true fine artists doing pencils, inks and colors for some comics - that the bar is just very high.

    Of course, if he hadn't improved between that old image and this more contemporary one, that'd be just plain disappointing.

    mattharvest on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    George Perez is a legend. And while he may not be the flashiest or most dynamic artist, the sheer amount of detail he stuff into every panel is fucking astounding.

    Balefuego on
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  • Red or AliveRed or Alive Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Brave-and-the-Bold.jpg

    An example of GP's work from a couple of months ago. And, mattharvest, pick up a copy of Crisis on Infinite Earths and try to think of any of today's 'hot' artists managing to cram as much detail into a modern monthly series.

    Red or Alive on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Brave-and-the-Bold.jpg

    An example of GP's work from a couple of months ago. And, mattharvest, pick up a copy of Crisis on Infinite Earths and try to think of any of today's 'hot' artists managing to cram as much detail into a modern monthly series.

    I'm not saying he's a bad artist. Great artists make bad work sometimes, and vice versa.

    However, detail is NOT quality. Detail is not skill.

    That image of GL/Supergirl, for example: yes, there's a lot of detail, but the perspective is broken, there's no integration between the background and the foreground, and basically ALL the "detail" is random noise (e.g. square windows).

    My point was that when we look at the covers for 52, or all the interior art for Civil War, there are some true fine artists in the industry today who consistently create images that are just extremely impressive for detail, realism and craft. That doesn't mean everyone has to be that good, but it does mean that people like this who ignore the basic rules of how to compose images no longer deserve the same credit.

    Look, any Silver Age comic now looks like crap, basically, because literally no one in that era was a trained artist. They were all kids who doodled and then got hired into a growing industry before anyone with art training found their way there. Nowadays, some of these artists are classically trained, and extremely talented and skilled. The bar is raised, plain and simple.

    I don't have to like GP's work any more than you have to like any other artist's work, but there are certain objective points of comparison. GP's inability (and yes, I am familiar with his work on CoIE, I have it around here somewhere) to show an understanding of certain artistic techniques (especially, constantly, perspective problems, and the use of random noise as "detail") is disappointing. He's still talented, and he's still got a great deal of skill, but it is simply no where near the average now.

    mattharvest on
  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Man, monkey shit everywhere.

    I know people love George Perez for his classic style, but if we're going to talk super-detailed and visually appealing Geoff Darrow immediately springs to mind.

    Calamity Jane on
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  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Oh. Also, this comic was great and the art kicked ass.

    Calamity Jane on
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  • Suicide SlydeSuicide Slyde Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Yea wow... way off the Thor track aren't we?

    Yea, Thor pretty much kicks ass. I didn't have much love for the character before, but after reading 1, he's pretty much one of my faves. The Ultimate variant is pretty cool too, in looks and otherwise, but the winged helmet is kinda spot on for some descriptions of the Norse/Germanic god.

    Suicide Slyde on
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    It doesn't help that, as originally published, CoIE had absolutely horrible, horrible coloring (not the colorist's fault, they were using some sort of new funky printing process at the time). I'm assuming they cleaned that up in the new reprints?

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2007
    Brave-and-the-Bold.jpg

    An example of GP's work from a couple of months ago. And, mattharvest, pick up a copy of Crisis on Infinite Earths and try to think of any of today's 'hot' artists managing to cram as much detail into a modern monthly series.

    I'm not saying he's a bad artist. Great artists make bad work sometimes, and vice versa.

    However, detail is NOT quality. Detail is not skill.

    That image of GL/Supergirl, for example: yes, there's a lot of detail, but the perspective is broken, there's no integration between the background and the foreground, and basically ALL the "detail" is random noise (e.g. square windows).

    My point was that when we look at the covers for 52, or all the interior art for Civil War, there are some true fine artists in the industry today who consistently create images that are just extremely impressive for detail, realism and craft. That doesn't mean everyone has to be that good, but it does mean that people like this who ignore the basic rules of how to compose images no longer deserve the same credit.

    Look, any Silver Age comic now looks like crap, basically, because literally no one in that era was a trained artist. They were all kids who doodled and then got hired into a growing industry before anyone with art training found their way there. Nowadays, some of these artists are classically trained, and extremely talented and skilled. The bar is raised, plain and simple.

    I don't have to like GP's work any more than you have to like any other artist's work, but there are certain objective points of comparison. GP's inability (and yes, I am familiar with his work on CoIE, I have it around here somewhere) to show an understanding of certain artistic techniques (especially, constantly, perspective problems, and the use of random noise as "detail") is disappointing. He's still talented, and he's still got a great deal of skill, but it is simply no where near the average now.


    i don't think you have a damn clue what you're talking about. "literally" nobody in the silver age was a trained artist? i'd like to see some proof to back that up.
    [Steve] Ditko studied at the Cartoonists and Illustrators School (later the School of Visual Arts) in New York City, under Batman inker Jerry Robinson and others, and began professionally illustrating comic books in 1953

    hm

    so, apparently, not only did at least one silver age artist go to school for it, at least one artist from before the silver age taught art at a college.


    art styles change. they don't necessarily get better. i mean, the shitty art in an average x-men comic from 1997 is worse than any of the art in superman in 1967.

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    There is a serious, extreme difference betweens someone trained in cartooning, and someone with fine-arts training in drawing anatomy, etc.

    In fairness though, the term "Silver Age" wasn't appropriate: I was referring to roughly the 40s-70s, during which there were essentially if not entirely no classically trained artists working as illustrators.

    The fact that art styles change is a truism, but you're simply wrong to imply that they never get better. The artwork some people bring to the table to day is undeniably, objectively, higher quality that most or all of the art from the 40s-70s in comics.

    mattharvest on
  • SASA Registered User
    edited July 2007
    I wonder which Avengers team Thor is going to join. If any.

    He'll probably be pissed at Tony, Reed, and Pym for making an evil clone of him.

    SA on
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  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Servo wrote: »
    I don't think you have a damn clue what you're talking about. "literally" nobody in the silver age was a trained artist? i'd like to see some proof to back that up.
    [Steve] Ditko studied at the Cartoonists and Illustrators School (later the School of Visual Arts) in New York City, under Batman inker Jerry Robinson and others, and began professionally illustrating comic books in 1953

    hm

    so, apparently, not only did at least one silver age artist go to school for it, at least one artist from before the silver age taught art at a college.


    art styles change. they don't necessarily get better. i mean, the shitty art in an average x-men comic from 1997 is worse than any of the art in superman in 1967.

    Yep.

    Yeah, some enjoy art-house films with wonky camera angles, but Perez isnt about cameras from every angles and 400 perspective changes per comic, his art, as detailed and as crowded with characters as it can get, are always easy on the eye and easy to intepret.

    He does landscapes and pesrpactives as well as any artist in this business, anyone who´s read Crisi can attest to that, but he´d rather concentrate on telling a story easily.

    This was the subject of an interesting debate at a comics con (Larsen also wrote on it on cbr) on how american comcis, trying to emulate films, have traded storytelling for fancy art and colors, and Perez thankfully, and how thats the main reason why american comics dont do very well overseas in countries like Japan (which buys translated French graphic novels and Manhua like crazy).

    That´s why he´s damn good, and still damn popular. Some samples of his work-
    e6d099b0gj7.jpg39c0fa00yl3.jpg
    RSPerezLithographLarge.jpg
    Avengers.gif

    Now dont get me wrong, I also enjoy artists like John Romita Jr and Steve Epting, but its great having a variety of styles in american comics, when I feel like reading a thriller-like comic, I´ll pick Frank Miller, if I want realistic T&A I´ll pick Cho, but when I want to see 200 heroes beating the shit out of each other, Perez is my man.

    JCM on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Maybe we should make a thread about this.

    You know, one that isn't already a Thor thread.

    Balefuego on
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  • SASA Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Seriously.

    I was trying to get it back on track.

    Sigh.

    SA on
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  • ReignerReigner Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    SA wrote: »
    I wonder which Avengers team Thor is going to join. If any.

    He'll probably be pissed at Tony, Reed, and Pym for making an evil clone of him.

    I think he'll be flying solo for a good long while. Probably bust a few Stark-bots up and then go into his own little world for about a year or two.

    Reigner on
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  • j0hnz3rj0hnz3r Registered User
    edited July 2007
    SA wrote: »
    I wonder which Avengers team Thor is going to join. If any.

    He'll probably be pissed at Tony, Reed, and Pym for making an evil clone of him.

    I think he's gonna be pretty pissed that Cap was assassinated and that Stark hasn't done a whole lot about it, since he considered them oathsworn brothers and all. Cap dying pissed me off since he kinda went down like a punk. Thor might be a little pissed he didn't die a warrior's death.

    ...and yeah, there's the evil clone of him. That might piss him off too. I hope there is enough power between Hulk and Thor to finally just reboot the Marvel Universe.

    j0hnz3r on
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  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    It's way too early for any of the shit suggested to be going down. With JMS onboard I think we're going to be seeing crazy cosmic adventures and what have you.

    Calamity Jane on
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  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I want to see some classic Thor villians show up.

    Absorbing Man

    The Wrecker

    some of that shit.

    Balefuego on
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  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited July 2007
    j0hnz3r wrote: »
    SA wrote: »
    I wonder which Avengers team Thor is going to join. If any.

    He'll probably be pissed at Tony, Reed, and Pym for making an evil clone of him.

    I think he's gonna be pretty pissed that Cap was assassinated and that Stark hasn't done a whole lot about it, since he considered them oathsworn brothers and all. Cap dying pissed me off since he kinda went down like a punk. Thor might be a little pissed he didn't die a warrior's death.

    ...and yeah, there's the evil clone of him. That might piss him off too. I hope there is enough power between Hulk and Thor to finally just reboot the Marvel Universe.

    Well, the previews for number 3 say-

    The Armored Avenger squares off against The God of Thunder! Tony Stark, the new Director of S.H.I.E.L.D., comes to Oklahoma to verify the rumors that his old friend and teammate is alive and in town…but Thor isn’t rolling out the welcome mat for Iron Man! The God of Thunder would have words with the man who cloned him…and you know what that means!

    So yeah, he´s pissed.

    JCM on
  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    This bok retail for 2.99, we'll just 3$ and call it even

    MARVEL just charged 1$ a minute to read this book. Waste of money. I wonder if anyone at MARVEL even reads this shit before they put it out? Must not based on how awful this issue was. It wasn't Front Line bad, but it was close.

    Algertman on
  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    Algertman, you're pretty much the only person I have heard say it was terrible.

    and since your opinion didn't matter much anyways, I expect no less from you.

    Blankspace on
    SIG.gif
  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Do you ever read out your stupid fucking posts before you hit the submit button? I've about had it you ignorant fuckers purposely ruining GV with your inane bullshit.

    Calamity Jane on
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  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Algertman, you're pretty much the only person I have heard say it was terrible.

    and since your opinion didn't matter much anyways, I expect no less from you.

    Sorry but this issue was shit.

    Algertman on
  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Anjin-San wrote: »
    Do you ever read out your stupid fucking posts before you hit the submit button? I've about had it you ignorant fuckers purposely ruining GV with your inane bullshit.

    What the fuck is GV?

    Algertman on
  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'm not entirely sure. My money is on an acronym of some sort.

    Calamity Jane on
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  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    Algertman wrote: »
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Algertman, you're pretty much the only person I have heard say it was terrible.

    and since your opinion didn't matter much anyways, I expect no less from you.

    Sorry but this issue was the shit.
    I believe you forgot a word, but don't worry I fixed it.

    Honestly, give me a few reasons why this issue was terrible outside of "olol MARVEL."

    Blankspace on
    SIG.gif
  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Algertman, you're pretty much the only person I have heard say it was terrible.

    and since your opinion didn't matter much anyways, I expect no less from you.

    Sorry but this issue was the shit.
    I believe you forgot a word, but don't worry I fixed it.

    Honestly, give me a few reasons why this issue was terrible outside of "olol MARVEL."


    This was 4 pages padded out to a full issue

    The writing was horrible. I actually think something in the mind of JMS broke after JRjr left Amazing Spider-Man. Compare his stuff up to that point with with the stuff afterwards, it's night and day.

    Once again MARVEL has wasted a talented artist on crap writing. DC is guilty aswell, so they ain't getting off the hook with me either. I call it "Jeph Loeb Syndrome"

    Algertman on
  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2007
    Algertman wrote: »
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    Blankspace wrote: »
    Algertman, you're pretty much the only person I have heard say it was terrible.

    and since your opinion didn't matter much anyways, I expect no less from you.

    Sorry but this issue was the shit.
    I believe you forgot a word, but don't worry I fixed it.

    Honestly, give me a few reasons why this issue was terrible outside of "olol MARVEL."


    This was 4 pages padded out to a full issue

    The writing was horrible. I actually think something in the mind of JMS broke after JRjr left Amazing Spider-Man. Compare his stuff up to that point with with the stuff afterwards, it's night and day.

    Once again MARVEL has wasted a talented artist on crap writing. DC is guilty aswell, so they ain't getting off the hook with me either. I call it "Jeph Loeb Syndrome"
    Dude

    It's the first issue of a series.

    Thor hasn't had the Donald Blake identity in over a decade, and he has been, y'know, dead after stopping the endless cycle of Ragnarok.

    It makes sense that the first issue of a brand new direction of Thor should set the tone and the set-up the story, which this issue did very well.

    Blankspace on
    SIG.gif
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