Also, think of skaven as a front-loaded army. Whether you're going heavy shooting or more close-combat oriented, you start the game ahead of the curve, but will almost always be behind later on. With rank-boosted Leadership and highly destructive (but random) weapons, you need to be agressive and afflict as much damage as possible in the first half of the game. Once things start blowing up, crumbling, and running, you will lose your power exponentially.
Play dirty (not cheaty) and go for the throat as fast as possible. Think like a skaven and only get in fights you know you'll win easily. And do *not* ever let the enemy stall or isolate your units.
I agree with pretty much all posts below, but as as addendum, unless you are playing a themed army, I see no reason why you should give up your Warp Lighting Cannon. Yes, it DOES blow up 1 of 3 games on the first turn. Yes, it DOES vaporise 2/3 of its crew 1 of 3 games. but the other 1 of 3 games it is spitting Str 10 death 48" through terrain across tables in a manner that borders on cheating.
You play skaven to have fun and win or lose dramatically, not to win every time automatically. I think the Warp Lighting Cannon does a really good job of reminding me what my army is all about. Totally worth the 100 points.
-R
Oh, PS: I've found if you use your first turn to march your slaves out, and position your Clanrats well, and hold back the second turn (let them come to your main block) you'll be in a good position to do horrible things at the top of the third.
Rubberchrist on
"Nurgle has got to be my favorite chaos god, fluff wise...
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus Gallery and Blog: http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
Oh, PS: I've found if you use your first turn to march your slaves out, and position your Clanrats well, and hold back the second turn (let them come to your main block) you'll be in a good position to do horrible things at the top of the third.
Yes indeed. This has worked well for me with the clanrats flanked by a ratling and a warp thrower. Just got to learn how to finish it off properly
I didn't end up playing tonight. Got caught up in gabbing and browsing through people's army books before deciding on a list and counting out the unitszzz...
3x20 Slaves
3x25 Clanrats + 2x ratling guns
Warlock Engineer with pistol and storm daemon
Chieftain with heavy armour, shield, and the cursed blade of somesuch (WS10)
If you have the 6 points somewhere, take your slaves in blocks of 21. With 20 in a unit, if 5 die the unit takes a panic test. With 21 in a unit, 6 must die to force panic.
Also, I don't think that cursed blade is really a worthwhile item.
So... I played tonight and lost in the most craptacular fashion...
Warp cannon fires short first turn. Fires strength S4 on the second, then S2... and S2... and then blows up. Woo. Casualties 0
Ratling guns decimated a unit of spider riders before becoming a non-event. Two units of 40 slaves flee after taking meagre casualties (one fled over 19 inches, how cool is that? ) and the clanrats were completely underwhelming (again) before getting stomped by trolls.
CRITICAL FAILURE SKAVEN STYLE! O_o
How did your slaves flee 19 inches? The most you can go is 13 in one pursuit.
So... I played tonight and lost in the most craptacular fashion...
Warp cannon fires short first turn. Fires strength S4 on the second, then S2... and S2... and then blows up. Woo. Casualties 0
Ratling guns decimated a unit of spider riders before becoming a non-event. Two units of 40 slaves flee after taking meagre casualties (one fled over 19 inches, how cool is that? ) and the clanrats were completely underwhelming (again) before getting stomped by trolls.
CRITICAL FAILURE SKAVEN STYLE! O_o
How did your slaves flee 19 inches? The most you can go is 13 in one pursuit.
They could have fled a distance that would normally have stopped them on top of a friendly unit and been forced to pop out the other side of that or multiple other friendly units until they found a clear spot to stop, or they could have fled into the path of an unresolved combat and been the target of an Enemy In The Way pursuit charge which forced them to flee from that charge as well.
Also a good reason for this is that if you're fighting an army with Bolt Throwers (i.e. Dwarfs). They'll eat through your ranks anyway, so those "extra" 10 clanrats are going to soak up all the killing that will be did.
Yes, killing will be did, via Bolt Throwers.
P.S. Dwarfs ftw.
Alazull on
User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
and then there is the grudge thrower wich gets to reroll its scatter dice, well 1 of them then again that might be the engineer Dwarfs in general piss me off. and end up in a total bloodbath.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
Dwarfs in general piss me off. and end up in a total bloodbath.
Dwarves in general?
I don't think that I can recall a game played against you in any system, ever, that didn't result in new swear words, questioning my faith, ethnicity, and sexual preference, followed by a big vein bulging from your forehead and some unintelligable screaming.
I miss playing games with you 8)
-R
Rubberchrist on
"Nurgle has got to be my favorite chaos god, fluff wise...
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus Gallery and Blog: http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
umm, no the real freak out happend after the OG abbadon the despoiler death in one of our 4 player games that we never ever ever finished. I'm sure we got through more then one game of necromunda / gorkamorka with out me losing it, its just recently with Warhammer that ive found my self yelling obscenities alot, i mean really If Erandus didn't try to take those type of "I win" lists I woiuldn't yell I swear
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
I'm bringing Death Globes next game to get a repeat!
-R
Rubberchrist on
"Nurgle has got to be my favorite chaos god, fluff wise...
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus Gallery and Blog: http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
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AlazullYour body is not a temple, it's an amusement park.Enjoy the ride.Registered Userregular
and then there is the grudge thrower wich gets to reroll its scatter dice, well 1 of them then again that might be the engineer Dwarfs in general piss me off. and end up in a total bloodbath.
You get to reroll Scatter if you have a Master Engineer, and then there is a rune that allows the Dwarf player to reroll the Artillery dice.
That, or it's vice-versa. Either way, a Grudge Thrower is a valuable tool when fighting on a small table against an enemy using lots of troops with low T. I will admit that the only reason Dwarfs don't totally dominate shooting is BS3 for most units, limits on range, and the fact Organ Guns occasionally blow up.
Anyone here going to be at the Bellevue Battle Bunker on March 8th for the tournament?
Alazull on
User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
I'll be there if I'm not working. Been wanting to try my army against new players.
-R
Rubberchrist on
"Nurgle has got to be my favorite chaos god, fluff wise...
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus Gallery and Blog: http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
I wasn't talking about the last game's we played. Once I saw what you threw down for chaos i knew for the most part i was going to pants you. You said you were playing chaos so I assumed 3 units of knights. I rolled the same list I would usualy run though 2 units of boys, 1 unit of blorks , 2 units of spider riders, 1 unit of 20+ gobos and 1 fanatic. Trolls, stone thrower and doomdiver..wich I might add both blew up on the same turn
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
Not so much what I was playing against... The lack of any other magic meant that my opponent had two dice to dispel what was only a lvl4 bound spell. Only a snake eyes or 1+2 combination would have allowed me to cast, afaik.
wow, you guys don't roll much magic. Only 2 dispell dice ? thats crazy, in our group of friends if your only rolling 2 Dispell dice your behind the 8 ball on magic . Granted this would free up a spot for another blork boss / orc boss.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
Not so much what I was playing against... The lack of any other magic meant that my opponent had two dice to dispel what was only a lvl4 bound spell. Only a snake eyes or 1+2 combination would have allowed me to cast, afaik.
Still, your enemy should only be able to dispel one; his warplightning spell, or Storm Daemon. Bound spells work to either flush out spell dice, or as surprises/follow-up after you've made them use it all up with primary spells.
wow, you guys don't roll much magic. Only 2 dispell dice ? thats crazy, in our group of friends if your only rolling 2 Dispell dice your behind the 8 ball on magic . Granted this would free up a spot for another blork boss / orc boss.
5 Dispel dice is the standard around here.
At the very very least you need a level 1 with two dispel scrolls.
Not so much what I was playing against... The lack of any other magic meant that my opponent had two dice to dispel what was only a lvl4 bound spell. Only a snake eyes or 1+2 combination would have allowed me to cast, afaik.
Still, your enemy should only be able to dispel one; his warplightning spell, or Storm Daemon. Bound spells work to either flush out spell dice, or as surprises/follow-up after you've made them use it all up with primary spells.
This is how it should go. The whole point is that you give them more stuff that they can dispel. With the right upgrades, your Warlock can be putting 3 PD into warp lightning. When faced with 2d6 S5 hits, they'll most likely go for the dispel. If they do dispel it, then you can hit them with the Storm Daemon. If you're lucky you can get both in the same turn sometimes.
Its all about the bait and switch, cast / use your magic items you dont mind getting dispelled and save your good magic for last. This is especialy useful for Tk when rolling casket of souls since its the last magic item you will use. like erandus said earlier we always run with at least 2 casters, and me as orc player i always take the bsb wich adds dispell dice = to your rank bonus add in a goblin with staff of sneaky stealin and im usualy always rolling 8 dispell dice Ill almost always control the magic phase , as Erandus can attest to .
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
wow, you guys don't roll much magic. Only 2 dispell dice ? thats crazy, in our group of friends if your only rolling 2 Dispell dice your behind the 8 ball on magic . Granted this would free up a spot for another blork boss / orc boss.
Not in an 850pt game(really need a bigger table) The rest of the army list is on the previous page. Though I must remember to take at least one warlock eng against the vampire count army I faced last night :x
"Haha, I totally nailed ELEVEN of your zombies with my ratling gun"
later...
"Oh... look, you summoned 10 more... Shit."
Didn't help that the warp cannon went S2 first turn, then *!* Haven't done anything serious with it for three matches and I almost cbf with it anymore.
Posts
Really, really, really. Or you get no warpstone.
Also, think of skaven as a front-loaded army. Whether you're going heavy shooting or more close-combat oriented, you start the game ahead of the curve, but will almost always be behind later on. With rank-boosted Leadership and highly destructive (but random) weapons, you need to be agressive and afflict as much damage as possible in the first half of the game. Once things start blowing up, crumbling, and running, you will lose your power exponentially.
Play dirty (not cheaty) and go for the throat as fast as possible. Think like a skaven and only get in fights you know you'll win easily. And do *not* ever let the enemy stall or isolate your units.
You play skaven to have fun and win or lose dramatically, not to win every time automatically. I think the Warp Lighting Cannon does a really good job of reminding me what my army is all about. Totally worth the 100 points.
-R
Oh, PS: I've found if you use your first turn to march your slaves out, and position your Clanrats well, and hold back the second turn (let them come to your main block) you'll be in a good position to do horrible things at the top of the third.
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus
Gallery and Blog:
http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
Yes indeed. This has worked well for me with the clanrats flanked by a ratling and a warp thrower. Just got to learn how to finish it off properly
I didn't end up playing tonight. Got caught up in gabbing and browsing through people's army books before deciding on a list and counting out the unitszzz...
3x20 Slaves
3x25 Clanrats + 2x ratling guns
Warlock Engineer with pistol and storm daemon
Chieftain with heavy armour, shield, and the cursed blade of somesuch (WS10)
All up it comes to around 850 pts
Also, I don't think that cursed blade is really a worthwhile item.
How did your slaves flee 19 inches? The most you can go is 13 in one pursuit.
Ayliana Moonwhisper Ecksus Cerazal
They could have fled a distance that would normally have stopped them on top of a friendly unit and been forced to pop out the other side of that or multiple other friendly units until they found a clear spot to stop, or they could have fled into the path of an unresolved combat and been the target of an Enemy In The Way pursuit charge which forced them to flee from that charge as well.
Joeslop: Two forced moves caused by friendly units.
I figured it was something like that but the way it was worded it sounded like one big movement of 19".
Ayliana Moonwhisper Ecksus Cerazal
Also a good reason for this is that if you're fighting an army with Bolt Throwers (i.e. Dwarfs). They'll eat through your ranks anyway, so those "extra" 10 clanrats are going to soak up all the killing that will be did.
Yes, killing will be did, via Bolt Throwers.
P.S. Dwarfs ftw.
You forgot the obligatory Rune of Penetration.
Nothing like starting out at a chariot-killing Str 7.
It makes for a well-rounded start of the day.
Dwarf bolt throwers get awesome magic runes.
Bolded for things that I found hilarious.
Dwarves in general?
I don't think that I can recall a game played against you in any system, ever, that didn't result in new swear words, questioning my faith, ethnicity, and sexual preference, followed by a big vein bulging from your forehead and some unintelligable screaming.
I miss playing games with you 8)
-R
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus
Gallery and Blog:
http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
And lets not forget the fact that any of our circle of friends even play this goddamn game is your fault.
I'm bringing Death Globes next game to get a repeat!
-R
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus
Gallery and Blog:
http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
You get to reroll Scatter if you have a Master Engineer, and then there is a rune that allows the Dwarf player to reroll the Artillery dice.
That, or it's vice-versa. Either way, a Grudge Thrower is a valuable tool when fighting on a small table against an enemy using lots of troops with low T. I will admit that the only reason Dwarfs don't totally dominate shooting is BS3 for most units, limits on range, and the fact Organ Guns occasionally blow up.
Anyone here going to be at the Bellevue Battle Bunker on March 8th for the tournament?
-R
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus
Gallery and Blog:
http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
Revisit old post...
He didn't amount to much as the only magic user in an 850pt army
Didn't matter though - the rats were victoriousssss 8-)
Still, your enemy should only be able to dispel one; his warplightning spell, or Storm Daemon. Bound spells work to either flush out spell dice, or as surprises/follow-up after you've made them use it all up with primary spells.
5 Dispel dice is the standard around here.
At the very very least you need a level 1 with two dispel scrolls.
This is how it should go. The whole point is that you give them more stuff that they can dispel. With the right upgrades, your Warlock can be putting 3 PD into warp lightning. When faced with 2d6 S5 hits, they'll most likely go for the dispel. If they do dispel it, then you can hit them with the Storm Daemon. If you're lucky you can get both in the same turn sometimes.
Not in an 850pt game(really need a bigger table) The rest of the army list is on the previous page. Though I must remember to take at least one warlock eng against the vampire count army I faced last night :x
"Haha, I totally nailed ELEVEN of your zombies with my ratling gun"
later...
"Oh... look, you summoned 10 more... Shit."
Didn't help that the warp cannon went S2 first turn, then *!* Haven't done anything serious with it for three matches and I almost cbf with it anymore.
Can't be friends?