Really, it all depends on whay you WANT to play.
In terms of Money wise, Ogres are supposed to be good value, but I'd warn agaisnt them for a starting player. Other points intensive armies like Dwarfs or Chaos can be pretty small.
So, which armies do you like the look of/fluff of the most?
it all depends on fluff really and what armies you like the look of. Cause if you get into an army and then find you dont like painting them or how they play then its really gonna be for not.
The best way to roll into the hobby is find someone else who is interested in playing and then start small 500 pts a piece and slowly start collecting as you go. This wich army is cheapest to collect wont be that big of a deal.
YOu can paint them any color you want. If someone trys to tell you that you can't tell em to fuck off. Its your money and your army paint em how you want to. Also chaos dwarfs arne't really supported by miniatures right now. People think they might be seeing an army book here in the future but were talking 2+ years. Since I think they will be updating all the current army books.
Dwarfs can be cheap depending on what kind of list / army you want to run, they just dont have any cavelry..but lots of warmachines and strong melee units. They are just a very slow moving army.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
The best way to roll into the hobby is find someone else who is interested in playing and then start small 500 pts a piece and slowly start collecting as you go. This wich army is cheapest to collect wont be that big of a deal.
I've already got my girlfriend charmed on the aspects of Wood Elves.
But otherwise no I got no idea where to find other players by the way I'm currently living in Sweden.
Dwarfs are an extremely cheap army to start. Look for people selling the dwarf half of the Battle for Skull Pass set on ebay or bartertown.
You can usually pick up the half box for 20 or 30 dollars, and it turns into roughly a 7-800 point army. This is a good size to start learning the game with, a not-too-daunting amount of models to paint, and a very forgiving army for a new player to learn with (they don't move very fast, and are sturdy in close combat so it's hard to really fuck yourself).
As for color scheme, anything goes. If you want pink dwarfs, by all means, paint pink dwarfs.
Chaos Dwarfs are an army that is no longer offically supported by Games Workshop. They haven't had an official army book for years, though there's a bare-bones army list available here. The army is not tournament legal, but most any casual gamer will let you field pretty much any old/abandoned army. There are no current Chaos Dwarf models aside from the crew that comes with the Hellcannon. If you want to field Chaos Dwarfs, you're either going to have to convert current dwarf models, or buy old CD models from ebay or bartertown.
If you like Dwarfs, go for them. They are tough, strong and relatively forgiving to a new player. As others have said, start with 500 points. BFSP dwarfs are available all over the place, usually pretty cheap.
I know that there is a decent wargaming scene in Sweden, or it might just have been the people I associated with. There is definitely a GW store is Stockholm, but you'd do well to ask Echo more specific questions, what wit him being Swedish and all.
Quick question about combat resolution. When getting charged in the flank or the rear, does that mean you lose the standard bonus, musician and champion attacks since they're in the "front rank" and not the fighting rank?
I swore I remember reading that only the rank that is fighting counts but now I can't find the page that says that.
I do think that you lose the bonus for the Battle Standard if he is not fighting. As a character however, he would be able to get into combat in the following round if he so chose.
-R
Rubberchrist on
"Nurgle has got to be my favorite chaos god, fluff wise...
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus Gallery and Blog: http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
Only recently got into Warhammer with the beginnings of a Skaven army ( oh, ratling gun, how I love thee)
I have a system for ranking but I'm not yet in a position to say if it works well. Basically I'm allowing some interesting poses for every second model in a clan rat regiment, ensuring an equal number of tightly packed, neat looking poses to place between any niggly protrusions...
As far as I know, you always get your standard and bsb bonus. You lose rank bonus from a flank charge. and then get +2 for a rear charge thats it.
A unit charged in the flank or rear by a unit with a US of five or more will lose its rank bonus.
An attacking unit that is in the flank of its opponent will gain +1 CR regardless of its US. The bonus is +2 for a rear charge.
As far as I know, you always get your standard and bsb bonus. You lose rank bonus from a flank charge. and then get +2 for a rear charge thats it.
A unit charged in the flank or rear by a unit with a US of five or more will lose its rank bonus.
An attacking unit that is in the flank of its opponent will gain +1 CR regardless of its US. The bonus is +2 for a rear charge.
What does this mean? If your big mainstay infantry unit gets charged in the rear by a unit of US5 or more, they just flipped the CR by 5 in their advantage compared to charging you in the front. 5 CR is a lot.
Cynic Jester on
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
As far as I know, you always get your standard and bsb bonus. You lose rank bonus from a flank charge. and then get +2 for a rear charge thats it.
A unit charged in the flank or rear by a unit with a US of five or more will lose its rank bonus.
An attacking unit that is in the flank of its opponent will gain +1 CR regardless of its US. The bonus is +2 for a rear charge.
What does this mean? If your big mainstay infantry unit gets charged in the rear by a unit of US5 or more, they just flipped the CR by 5 in their advantage compared to charging you in the front. 5 CR is a lot.
Pretty much, yeah. That's why people love flank-charging with skirmishers; they're fast, manoeuvrable and relatively easy to get into the flanks/rear. That's why they say Warhammer is a game of maneouvre.
e: Also, Flank charge is cumulative with rear, so if you can get both that's +3, in addition to denying them their +3...
And yes, you always get your standard and BSB, even when flank charged. The "front" of your unit doesn't change until you perform the turn maneuver, and when you do that, the command upgrades and characters automatically reposition to the new "front" of the unit. Even though you've been flank charged, your unit's front is still the same, so the standards still provide their bonuses.
instead of going, ill keep rolling tell I think my luck is done, just roll a d6 and then roll that many dice..thats guaranteed to be a boot to the ass.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
Edit: I guess I really should be painting the army and a half I have sitting around unpaited too, before I go buying even more shit. Maybe this time, i'll start an army the "right" way and just buy one thing every few weeks and paint it before moving on.
Edit: I guess I really should be painting the army and a half I have sitting around unpaited too, before I go buying even more shit. Maybe this time, i'll start an army the "right" way and just buy one thing every few weeks and paint it before moving on.
NO freaking deamons for you dont do it. Get painting bitch.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
So... I played tonight and lost in the most craptacular fashion...
Warp cannon fires short first turn. Fires strength S4 on the second, then S2... and S2... and then blows up. Woo. Casualties 0
Ratling guns decimated a unit of spider riders before becoming a non-event. Two units of 40 slaves flee after taking meagre casualties (one fled over 19 inches, how cool is that? ) and the clanrats were completely underwhelming (again) before getting stomped by trolls.
yeah, you live and die by how well your stuff shoots. Our buddy rubber christ generaly has good luck on his lightning cannon, regulary rolls str 6+. You will notice that once you get into combat even with bog standard boys your going to lose and your going to flee, its the way rats work.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
If you get into combat with anything that can suck up the casualty or two you're going to dish out and still out-wound you by 5-6, you're going to have problems. You should have 3 ranks, 1 outnumber, 1 flank, and 1 standard for a total of six static CR.
If what you're fighting has multiple attacks (the lads swinging two choppas for example), and a standard, they only need to come up with 5 wounds out of something around 20 attacks (5+ champ attacking to the front, 4 or 5 attacking to the side), they're at least tying combat. Winning through straight up CC is a risky business for skaven. Your shooting/magic really needs to whittle a few ranks off those blocks and minimize the counter attacks you're recieving. If you don't get a flank charge in to deny that rank bonus, all bets are off.
I didn't give the slaves spears (worked great for me before) and angled a flank charge against some spider riders while too close to the left side of the board - only took 8 inches to get the slaves off the field even though they were 18 odd inches from my side of the board. The resulting chase by the spider riders took them out past the range of a ratling gun and off the field, only to reappear in a flanking position near my toughest clanrat unit :x
On the right hand side the idea worked better and my opponent was forced to close in on my clanrats (supported by ratlings) with her second spider unit. It got mulched.
I thought things were going ok at this point. Then the warp cannon fizzled over and over again - and her trolls+general strolled leisurely across the field and charged my clanrats after I had moved the ratlings to help the second clanrats unit who were about to face off with the remaining spiders. (she duped me and stood stationary and fired with bows - ratlings were positioned assuming a march order)
By some stroke of luck she broke my remaining slave unit with some goblin bowmen. The slave unit fled a full 13", which landed them on top of a ratling. The forced move landed them on top of another ratling whose backside was a couple of inches from the bottom edge.
I should mention it was only an 800pt game. I haven't been able to justify the crumby magic users at that limit. I feel like ditching the warp cannon, but the degree of damage it can cause is so very tempting... Need to work harder at getting a good charge with the clanrats and dealing some damage with magical weapons.
I'd actually say that you had some issuies with your slaves, but different ones. I've found that Slaves work best in units of 20, no upgrades what so ever. Use them as cannon fodder and redirectors, so that your Clanrats can get to the fight unharmed. Clanrats shouldn't be given spears either. How big are your units of Clanrats?
Also, at 800 points, the WLC seems a bit of overkill. A Warlock ENgineer would be much more effective in the same vein of "Zappy Death".
Need to work on my warboss again. Still looking for a decent right arm for him. I want him with the greataxe over the shoulder and pointing at the enemy with the right arm.
Asher: I took the cannon to try and knock her spear chuckas and trolls
The clanrats were 2x20 models (no spears, but one unit had a hero with a magical weapon that never actually got into combat )
The slaves were 2x40 models. I got used to doing this after playing a friends dwarf army and getting pelted by thunderers. I gathered that smaller units of slaves would panic too easily. Actually... I had previously taken 2x30 with spears. This worked well for me against the dwarfs, allowing me to get my clanrats up the field without much harassment. The larger units of 40 were more of an experiment in intimidation...
Now that you mention it... am I right in thinking that a unit of, say... thunderers - they cannot target more than one unit at a time? So if I have 3x20 slaves marching toward them they could only panic one unit per turn... The only problem I foresee being the weaker rank/ld bonus.
OK, Clanrats need to be bigger, 25 minimum. They are your main combat troops, and at 20, they lose rank bonus as soon as they take casualties. I field 2 units of 30 and usually do well.
Onto the slaves. It depends on how many thunderers you are facing. Most of armies I fight don't have more that 2ish units of Missile troops and some warmachines. In general, it would take 20 or so thunderers to certainly cause a panic test on the Slaves. If you have the general nearby, they have a decent chance of passing this. Now, the important this is that they are entirely expendable. Every turn that the enemy is shooting at your slaves, they are not shooting at Clanrats of rat Ogres or whatever. The slaves are a 40 point unit! Bugger them! They are supposed to die, but the longer they last the better. I've found the trick is to keep slave units cheap and expendable.
As for what Thunderers can shoot, it depends on how many units they are in. 2 units of 10 each can shoot 2 different targets. 1 unit of 20 can only shoot one target. Remember, only the front rank can shoot.
All glory to the Horned rat! You should consider taking a Warlock Engineer with Storm Daemon. Highly effective, and very nasty. Also, you're a Kiwi right? If so, you should be a member of Wargamerau.
Posts
In terms of Money wise, Ogres are supposed to be good value, but I'd warn agaisnt them for a starting player. Other points intensive armies like Dwarfs or Chaos can be pretty small.
So, which armies do you like the look of/fluff of the most?
What is the deal about Chaos Dwarfs?
The best way to roll into the hobby is find someone else who is interested in playing and then start small 500 pts a piece and slowly start collecting as you go. This wich army is cheapest to collect wont be that big of a deal.
YOu can paint them any color you want. If someone trys to tell you that you can't tell em to fuck off. Its your money and your army paint em how you want to. Also chaos dwarfs arne't really supported by miniatures right now. People think they might be seeing an army book here in the future but were talking 2+ years. Since I think they will be updating all the current army books.
Dwarfs can be cheap depending on what kind of list / army you want to run, they just dont have any cavelry..but lots of warmachines and strong melee units. They are just a very slow moving army.
I've already got my girlfriend charmed on the aspects of Wood Elves.
But otherwise no I got no idea where to find other players by the way I'm currently living in Sweden.
You can usually pick up the half box for 20 or 30 dollars, and it turns into roughly a 7-800 point army. This is a good size to start learning the game with, a not-too-daunting amount of models to paint, and a very forgiving army for a new player to learn with (they don't move very fast, and are sturdy in close combat so it's hard to really fuck yourself).
As for color scheme, anything goes. If you want pink dwarfs, by all means, paint pink dwarfs.
Chaos Dwarfs are an army that is no longer offically supported by Games Workshop. They haven't had an official army book for years, though there's a bare-bones army list available here. The army is not tournament legal, but most any casual gamer will let you field pretty much any old/abandoned army. There are no current Chaos Dwarf models aside from the crew that comes with the Hellcannon. If you want to field Chaos Dwarfs, you're either going to have to convert current dwarf models, or buy old CD models from ebay or bartertown.
I know that there is a decent wargaming scene in Sweden, or it might just have been the people I associated with. There is definitely a GW store is Stockholm, but you'd do well to ask Echo more specific questions, what wit him being Swedish and all.
I swore I remember reading that only the rank that is fighting counts but now I can't find the page that says that.
Ayliana Moonwhisper Ecksus Cerazal
-R
He's portrayed as this sort of jovial, jolly old guy who thinks that rotting apocolyptic plague is funny as hell... So basically he's a big ole fat bastard who thinks giving you a scorching case of the herp is a big laugh." ---Erandus
Gallery and Blog:
http://brushandputty.blogspot.com/
I have a system for ranking but I'm not yet in a position to say if it works well. Basically I'm allowing some interesting poses for every second model in a clan rat regiment, ensuring an equal number of tightly packed, neat looking poses to place between any niggly protrusions...
An attacking unit that is in the flank of its opponent will gain +1 CR regardless of its US. The bonus is +2 for a rear charge.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
What does this mean? If your big mainstay infantry unit gets charged in the rear by a unit of US5 or more, they just flipped the CR by 5 in their advantage compared to charging you in the front. 5 CR is a lot.
Pretty much, yeah. That's why people love flank-charging with skirmishers; they're fast, manoeuvrable and relatively easy to get into the flanks/rear. That's why they say Warhammer is a game of maneouvre.
e: Also, Flank charge is cumulative with rear, so if you can get both that's +3, in addition to denying them their +3...
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
And yes, you always get your standard and BSB, even when flank charged. The "front" of your unit doesn't change until you perform the turn maneuver, and when you do that, the command upgrades and characters automatically reposition to the new "front" of the unit. Even though you've been flank charged, your unit's front is still the same, so the standards still provide their bonuses.
People will hate you for using these.
To make them more fun for all involved, try rolling D6 shots instead of choosing. It guarantees a lot more misfires and hijinks.
My ratling guns are guaranteed to blow themselves up no matter how many or how I roll the dice.
But I keep taking them anyway.
Ayliana Moonwhisper Ecksus Cerazal
SoogaGames Blog
Damned thing keeps wiping out cavalry units.
Needs more warpstone.
That is such an awesomely skavenish concept, it almost makes me want to start a skaven army, just to do that.
I really want to go buy a shitload of daemons.
But I know new plastics are coming.
Edit: I guess I really should be painting the army and a half I have sitting around unpaited too, before I go buying even more shit. Maybe this time, i'll start an army the "right" way and just buy one thing every few weeks and paint it before moving on.
Indeed. And this is especially true when your enemy's precious Banshees are the closest unit to your AKAKAKAKAtling gun.
Poor Banshees.
Morskittar: That is a devilish idea, tho I've only had the guts to roll three times... (14 shots ain't bad!)
DWF: Can... can I borrow you? Please... to roll my dice...
Warp cannon fires short first turn. Fires strength S4 on the second, then S2... and S2... and then blows up. Woo. Casualties 0
Ratling guns decimated a unit of spider riders before becoming a non-event. Two units of 40 slaves flee after taking meagre casualties (one fled over 19 inches, how cool is that?
CRITICAL FAILURE SKAVEN STYLE! O_o
If what you're fighting has multiple attacks (the lads swinging two choppas for example), and a standard, they only need to come up with 5 wounds out of something around 20 attacks (5+ champ attacking to the front, 4 or 5 attacking to the side), they're at least tying combat. Winning through straight up CC is a risky business for skaven. Your shooting/magic really needs to whittle a few ranks off those blocks and minimize the counter attacks you're recieving. If you don't get a flank charge in to deny that rank bonus, all bets are off.
I didn't give the slaves spears (worked great for me before) and angled a flank charge against some spider riders while too close to the left side of the board - only took 8 inches to get the slaves off the field even though they were 18 odd inches from my side of the board. The resulting chase by the spider riders took them out past the range of a ratling gun and off the field, only to reappear in a flanking position near my toughest clanrat unit :x
On the right hand side the idea worked better and my opponent was forced to close in on my clanrats (supported by ratlings) with her second spider unit. It got mulched.
I thought things were going ok at this point. Then the warp cannon fizzled over and over again - and her trolls+general strolled leisurely across the field and charged my clanrats after I had moved the ratlings to help the second clanrats unit who were about to face off with the remaining spiders. (she duped me and stood stationary and fired with bows - ratlings were positioned assuming a march order)
By some stroke of luck she broke my remaining slave unit with some goblin bowmen. The slave unit fled a full 13", which landed them on top of a ratling. The forced move landed them on top of another ratling whose backside was a couple of inches from the bottom edge.
I should mention it was only an 800pt game. I haven't been able to justify the crumby magic users at that limit. I feel like ditching the warp cannon, but the degree of damage it can cause is so very tempting... Need to work harder at getting a good charge with the clanrats and dealing some damage with magical weapons.
Also, at 800 points, the WLC seems a bit of overkill. A Warlock ENgineer would be much more effective in the same vein of "Zappy Death".
The clanrats were 2x20 models (no spears, but one unit had a hero with a magical weapon that never actually got into combat
The slaves were 2x40 models. I got used to doing this after playing a friends dwarf army and getting pelted by thunderers. I gathered that smaller units of slaves would panic too easily. Actually... I had previously taken 2x30 with spears. This worked well for me against the dwarfs, allowing me to get my clanrats up the field without much harassment. The larger units of 40 were more of an experiment in intimidation...
Now that you mention it... am I right in thinking that a unit of, say... thunderers - they cannot target more than one unit at a time? So if I have 3x20 slaves marching toward them they could only panic one unit per turn... The only problem I foresee being the weaker rank/ld bonus.
Onto the slaves. It depends on how many thunderers you are facing. Most of armies I fight don't have more that 2ish units of Missile troops and some warmachines. In general, it would take 20 or so thunderers to certainly cause a panic test on the Slaves. If you have the general nearby, they have a decent chance of passing this. Now, the important this is that they are entirely expendable. Every turn that the enemy is shooting at your slaves, they are not shooting at Clanrats of rat Ogres or whatever. The slaves are a 40 point unit! Bugger them! They are supposed to die, but the longer they last the better. I've found the trick is to keep slave units cheap and expendable.
As for what Thunderers can shoot, it depends on how many units they are in. 2 units of 10 each can shoot 2 different targets. 1 unit of 20 can only shoot one target. Remember, only the front rank can shoot.
I should be having a game tonight. I'll put this into practice and report back :^: