This is kind of off topic, but has anyone got the Revan and Malak figures yet? The newest wave of 30th Anniversary Star Wars figures has a Darth Revan and a Darth Malak. I've found them on eBay, but not for those prices. I figured people here would be interested in getting these guys.
"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb" - Lord Helmet
That's someone who knows what he's talking about. Case in point, the above mentioned Jedi methods that crank out plenty of Sith/Dark Jedi on their own.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
The points raised about the whole darkside/lightside are the same reasons why I really feel that the new system Bioware's brought into play for Mass Effect is the way to go when you build both 'sides' of the game around a core narrative.
The endgame result is similar, but the process of getting there is different, but not necessarily good/evil. The two paths are paragon and renegade and they are not mutually exclusive, they are separate meters.
Of course I'm sure it's not perfect, because of how complex it is to model such intricate interactions, but I believe it's more appropriate than dark/light side simply because I think dark/light is too simplistic and only really works on a superficial basis.
But this is Star Wars we're talking about.
Star Wars was, at its core, a simple story about good and evil. One side was good. One side was bad. They fight. It's all very black and white and very little in the middle. Those that appear to be in the middle always tend to drift to one side or another. This is not considering the EU stuff.
The light/dark system BioWare made for KOTOR worked very well for its setting. It's a very black and white universe and you can't be both good or bad. You're either one or the other. Your choices don't simply shape who you are, they also physically change who you are. The corrupting influence of the dark side and all that.
Now that BioWare wants to make a more realistic universe for their new game to take place in, the new system makes a lot of sense. I don't think it would have made as much sense in a Star Wars game.
I disagree. There are still ways to be subtly evil - look at Palpatine's rise to power. Much better than KotOR's heavy-handed, "simple-minded bully" approach.
It should come down to more shades of nuance than vs
Most games don't really give you the option to be subtly evil. KOTOR, for example, basically had you choosing between giving all your money to homeless people, doing nothing, or killing them, taking their money, and then using that money to filling their body parts with thermal detonators and mailing it to orphans. Basically, your options are so ridiculously extreme that I'm surprised that 100% Dark Side alignment didn't make you grow a curly mustache and wear a top hat and cape.
In any case, though, I'm really hoping for Gizka's team to finish soon. Even though I've read through all of Scorchy's LP, I still want to experience KotOR II myself, considering how awesome it seems to be.
There are shades of intent in Anakin Skywalker for example. He intended to do the right thing, he intended to try and save people. Is trying to save someone wrong, just because you want to save them for yourself?
The moral arguments set against the backdrop of two such strongly contrasting religions (Jedi, Sith) based on a core concept (the Force) just makes for interesting discussion, I think, especially when you have characters crossing between the two and others straddling or using both.
If Anakin hadn't been as finely manipulated by Palaptine and had managed to learn the ability to give life with the Force but had used it in his role as a Jedi Knight, he would have probably been outcast by both factions.
I think the biggest question I like to toy with is this; do the Jedi exemplify all that is of the Light Side of the Force and do the Sith exemplify all that is the Dark Side of the Force?
And is there a truly Dark/Light-convergent Neutral aspect of the Force? The part that seeks to bring balance, initiating the prophecy, etc leading up the decimation of both Jedi and Sith. From the point of the movies (not taking into account the EU), there are basically no known Jedi left aside from Luke and to a far lesser extent Leia.
There are shades of intent in Anakin Skywalker for example. He intended to do the right thing, he intended to try and save people. Is trying to save someone wrong, just because you want to save them for yourself?
There can be shades of intent. In the movies and the EU, we constantly see the path to a Sith's fall filled to the brim with good intentions. However, once the fall to the dark side has happened, the good intentions tend to fall along the wayside. They get completely forgotten about, even.
They might whine and cry about it every so often about what they're mad about, but they are irredeemably (sometimes) evil and there's no changing that. Once they have been corrupted by the dark side of the force, they are ultimately selfish and do things to their own ends.
Anyway, my point wasn't about the subtlety of being evil or whether you can start out with good intentions or anything.
It was simply that the light/dark meter in KOTOR fit the setting far better than something more complex like what's in Mass Effect by grace of, well, the setting, and how black and white it is in the concretely canon material. Because it is very black and white.
So, I forgot about something in KotOR2. You can only pick prestige classes when you swing to one alignment of the Force heavily.
Fuck. That. Shit.
Not like you can't easily switch your alignment back to neutral, you damn Swiss bastard. Can't trust them neutrals!
"What makes a man turn neutral ... Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality!?"
Anyway, a lot of the game-based Expanded Universe seems alright (I've never read any books or comics or...pretty much anything outside of the movies, KotOR and some other games), but a simple perusal of the wikipedia page makes much of the universe infinitely boring, and it generally works like this:
Galactic empire/republic teeters on collapse due to stagnation/previous war/corruption
Evil force of sith grows
Super Jedi springs up, gets corrupted
Even better jedi springs up/former super jedi is redeemed
Evil is extinguished (or is it?! dun dun dun)
Galactic Government eventually reinstated until some force breaks it down again and the cycle repeats 6 trillion times
This seems to be the way the SW story goes after Return of the Jedi, too (apparently some of Luke's kids are evil, and some of them are good, and some of them become evil and then eventually good or whatever). Apparently no one studies history in the Star Wars universe, or they're just fans of boring cycles; I'm not sure what the problem is...
(at least the KotORs are fun because you're engaged in the story, but it's kind of depressing knowing that the same thing that you're fighting for/against is just going to be happening in the exact same way 10,000 more times)
UltimaGecko on
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It's why I don't like the books so much, because it becomes a reoccurring opera. The characters post ROTJ don't interest me that much (apart from Thrawn).
I guess the issue with trying to play with a setting that has the scope of Star Wars is that it lends itself very easily to that kind of conflict. Trying to focus in on a smaller part of the universe may not make it 'feel' like Star Wars.
It's one of the reasons why I want to see/hear/read/play more about Revan, because while it bears numerous similarities to the 'standard' Star Wars cycle, it has twists and ongoing elements that could bear interesting fruit.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
edited October 2007
On a side note, anyone know why in KOTRO 2, I am getting OWNED on the surface of Telos? I can barely scratch the mercenaries. Any more than three at a time and I'm doomed. Currently dual wielding vibro blades with the second level of dual wield feat so I can't understand why I'm missing so much.
On a side not, anyone know why in KOTRO 2, I am getting OWNED on the surface of Telos? I can barely scratch the mercenaries. Any more than three at a time and I'm doomed. Currently dual wielding vibro blades with the second level of dual wield feat so I can't understand why I'm missing so much.
What's your level, what are your attributes? What's you're To-Hit bonus? Just because you have two in dual-wielding doesn't mean anything if your stats are low enough that the penalty you suffer even with the second tier duel-wielding feat kills your To-Hit bonus.
Also, don't be afraid to use any shields, stims, force powers, or healing items you might have. You'll have plenty more later.
The surface can be tough in the area right before the military base, but it shouldn't be impossible by any means.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
On a side not, anyone know why in KOTRO 2, I am getting OWNED on the surface of Telos? I can barely scratch the mercenaries. Any more than three at a time and I'm doomed. Currently dual wielding vibro blades with the second level of dual wield feat so I can't understand why I'm missing so much.
What's your level, what are your attributes? What's you're To-Hit bonus? Just because you have two in dual-wielding doesn't mean anything if your stats are low enough that the penalty you suffer even with the second tier duel-wielding feat kills your To-Hit bonus.
Also, don't be afraid to use any shields, stims, force powers, or healing items you might have. You'll have plenty more later.
Level 9, there's a +11 next to one of the blades and something lower next to the other, my strength is around 15 or so...
And yeah, I'm using shields and what not, I'm just having a devil of a time hitting them.
Another odd thing, after completing the Ithorian quest line, I got a call that their HQ was being attacked, I head over there and both my companions are GONE. So there's no way I'm plowing through all those guys by myself. I head down to the surface and they reappear though. Is the game THAT buggy? Are there any must have fixes? It's patched and what not at the very least.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
So, I forgot about something in KotOR2. You can only pick prestige classes when you swing to one alignment of the Force heavily.
Fuck. That. Shit.
Not like you can't easily switch your alignment back to neutral, you damn Swiss bastard. Can't trust them neutrals!
"What makes a man turn neutral ... Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality!?"
Anyway, a lot of the game-based Expanded Universe seems alright (I've never read any books or comics or...pretty much anything outside of the movies, KotOR and some other games), but a simple perusal of the wikipedia page makes much of the universe infinitely boring, and it generally works like this:
Galactic empire/republic teeters on collapse due to stagnation/previous war/corruption
Evil force of sith grows
Super Jedi springs up, gets corrupted
Even better jedi springs up/former super jedi is redeemed
Evil is extinguished (or is it?! dun dun dun)
Galactic Government eventually reinstated until some force breaks it down again and the cycle repeats 6 trillion times
This seems to be the way the SW story goes after Return of the Jedi, too (apparently some of Luke's kids are evil, and some of them are good, and some of them become evil and then eventually good or whatever). Apparently no one studies history in the Star Wars universe, or they're just fans of boring cycles; I'm not sure what the problem is...
(at least the KotORs are fun because you're engaged in the story, but it's kind of depressing knowing that the same thing that you're fighting for/against is just going to be happening in the exact same way 10,000 more times)
I don't know though, look at the first half of the 20th century. Germans "start" (it was more complicated than that) war, get owned, sit down for a while and get back up again.
Wars come and go and in the star wars universe the easiest way to personally amass alot of power was to wield the force. It seems though using the force can easily polarize your views hence very few nuetral and just mainly light/dark jedis.
The thing that pisses me off about the EU is that it was always about the skywalkers. Tell a different story please. It was one of the things I really dug about KotOR, there were no goddam secret stashes hidden by that old time smuggler han solo.
The thing that pisses me off about the EU is that it was always about the skywalkers. Tell a different story please. It was one of the things I really dug about KotOR, there were no goddam secret stashes hidden by that old time smuggler han solo.
But the random name generator did include Solo and Organa as possible last names. And there's at least one reference to the early screenplays and Luke's original name.
So, I forgot about something in KotOR2. You can only pick prestige classes when you swing to one alignment of the Force heavily.
Fuck. That. Shit.
Not like you can't easily switch your alignment back to neutral, you damn Swiss bastard. Can't trust them neutrals!
"What makes a man turn neutral ... Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality!?"
Anyway, a lot of the game-based Expanded Universe seems alright (I've never read any books or comics or...pretty much anything outside of the movies, KotOR and some other games), but a simple perusal of the wikipedia page makes much of the universe infinitely boring, and it generally works like this:
Galactic empire/republic teeters on collapse due to stagnation/previous war/corruption
Evil force of sith grows
Super Jedi springs up, gets corrupted
Even better jedi springs up/former super jedi is redeemed
Evil is extinguished (or is it?! dun dun dun)
Galactic Government eventually reinstated until some force breaks it down again and the cycle repeats 6 trillion times
This seems to be the way the SW story goes after Return of the Jedi, too (apparently some of Luke's kids are evil, and some of them are good, and some of them become evil and then eventually good or whatever). Apparently no one studies history in the Star Wars universe, or they're just fans of boring cycles; I'm not sure what the problem is...
(at least the KotORs are fun because you're engaged in the story, but it's kind of depressing knowing that the same thing that you're fighting for/against is just going to be happening in the exact same way 10,000 more times)
I don't know though, look at the first half of the 20th century. Germans "start" (it was more complicated than that) war, get owned, sit down for a while and get back up again.
Wars come and go and in the star wars universe the easiest way to personally amass alot of power was to wield the force. It seems though using the force can easily polarize your views hence very few nuetral and just mainly light/dark jedis.
The thing that pisses me off about the EU is that it was always about the skywalkers. Tell a different story please. It was one of the things I really dug about KotOR, there were no goddam secret stashes hidden by that old time smuggler han solo.
Well, to be fair, many historians now consider WW2 to be a psuedo-continuation of WW1 due to the peace terms levied against Germany, and that's still just one giant war which is sort of the equivalent of one Sith-Jedi fight that repeats itself every few hundred of years, apparently. All of the Jedi-Sith stuff is just galaxy-sweeping changes (that is: not like medieval warfare where you take some land or vassalize someone or conquer land to expand your power; this is like if Germany won and the whole world became Nazi, and then a few years later a resistance rises up and creates a democracy, only to fall to Nazis again a century later).
Apparently every generation of the Skywalker hegemony has managed to swing the galaxy one way and back. You'd think the galactic population would just be weary of these 'epic power struggles' already in KotOR.
That all just seems really lame to me; it's fun enough in KotOR and such when you're playing it individually, but come on, who writes this sith?
(some consider puns to be the lowest form of comedy, but that's a pun/psuedo-typo, which is much better)
UltimaGecko on
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Didn't Lucas declare Revan as a Skywalker ancestor?
God, I hope not.
What's next? The Exile is one of Solo's ancestors?
Oddly, no, just another Skywalker - exile is Female in the cannon, right? Revan and Exile get it on and make space-babies on Tatooine that become the Skywalker clan.
[/bullshit (I hope)]
Didn't Lucas declare Revan as a Skywalker ancestor?
God, I hope not.
What's next? The Exile is one of Solo's ancestors?
Oddly, no, just another Skywalker - exile is Female in the cannon, right? Revan and Exile get it on and make space-babies on Tatooine that become the Skywalker clan.
[/bullshit (I hope)]
Ugh, what the hell. Lucas better not have done such a thing.
Didn't Lucas declare Revan as a Skywalker ancestor?
Oh fuck you George.
I'm not a fan of Tim Buckley, but a while back (I think it was when Galaxies got dumbed down to a hand full of classes, all of them clones of OT characters) he summed the Lucas Star Wars experience up perfectly. It's like a universe of infinite possibility and Lucas insists on making it as small as possible.
Not every god damn thing in the universe that ever was or ever will be is connected to Luke mother-fucking Skywalker. What's wrong with telling stories with no connection to the characters from the movies, huh?
And while we're at it, for a dust ball at the end of the universe why does Tatooine have to factor into every SW story ever told?
Didn't Lucas declare Revan as a Skywalker ancestor?
Oh fuck you George.
I'm not a fan of Tim Buckley, but a while back (I think it was when Galaxies got dumbed down to a hand full of classes, all of them clones of OT characters) he summed the Lucas Star Wars experience up perfectly. It's like a universe of infinite possibility and Lucas insists on making it as small as possible.
Not every god damn thing in the universe that ever was or ever will be is connected to Luke mother-fucking Skywalker. What's wrong with telling stories with no connection to the characters from the movies, huh?
And while we're at it, for a dust ball at the end of the universe why does Tatooine have to factor into every SW story ever told?
Because Luke's from there. Sorry, but that's pretty much it.
I would at least retcon in some sort of galactically critical natural resource on Tatooine before I made it such a central world. It's not like Lucas didn't borrow concepts from Dune already.
Edit: Then again, planets that do have galactically critical resources do exist, and are nowhere to be seen. If Kessel is so important and Han's career is smuggling out of there, why the heck does he never go near the place?
If that was directed at me, I'm sure you'll be happy to know that my frustration with FRAPS has diminished somewhat and I'm working on the next update as we speak.
It won't be a very huge update, but an update all the same.
If that was directed at me, I'm sure you'll be happy to know that my frustration with FRAPS has diminished somewhat and I'm working on the next update as we speak.
It won't be a very huge update, but an update all the same.
It was directed at both the universe in general, and you as a side note in regards to how much I love the thread, rather than a demand that you work harder while I bask in your glory.
Small, big, whatever, I just this thread so very much. I don't recall exactly when it was released, but I played it pretty heavily around Christmas/New Years that year, and my room mate at the time would watch like it was some kind of really long movie. He seemed to enjoy it, and I had a blast, though I admit having someone watch over my shoulder made me try to pace my playthrough as cinematically (little backtracking/rampant exploring as possible) as I could. I really should dust off my disks and go for a full, thorough playthrough again sometime.
That said, the "OMG BIG SPOILER" in the middle'ish blew me away. Maybe I should've seen it coming, but I felt it was both well hinted at and not totally obvious, and I loved the reveal.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited October 2007
By the way, up until level 18 in KotOR2 my character has been fighting hand-to-hand. I had low strength but it still worked out for the better. Kreia and Visaas are still fighting hand to hand as I haven't received any additional lightsabers.
If you're playing as a guy, Handmaiden is fantastic fighting unarmed.
She hates my guts unfortunately, because apparently talking to Visaas is enough for her to get grumpy about it. She actually told me never to talk to her again. Never happened on my first three characters.
Now that I have my very own Jedi robes, it's time to speak with the Council again.
Ah yes. That creepy vision about Malak and Revan standing around in front of some dark door and wondering if they should go in. Apparently, the door from that vision belonged to a ruin conveniently located near the Jedi Enclave. Since I was the one to have the vision, Master Vandar thinks I should be the one to investigate those ruins.
Which, according to Malak, were just brimming with the power of the Dark Side.
Yeah, I'm not so sure if sending a barely-Padawan over there is such a good idea. You know, in terms of me surviving.
Still, orders are orders. Besides, I won't be going in alone.
The link thing is true. But on the other hand, doesn't Bastila have this really powerful gift that can turn the tide of entire battles? Shouldn't she head to somewhere near the front lines where her gift could actually be used?
I'm probably not seeing the big picture here.
Anyways, when I'm just about to leave, the meeting is interrupted.
Hmm. Two families already practically at each other's throats, one of them has now gone missing and, if not treated with care, this whole thing could blow up in spectacular fashion.
Nice.
And by 'we' Vandar means me.
I'm not sure if I should be flattered, disturbed or worried that the Council is heaping so many responsibilities onto my shoulders.
In any case, before we head out on Malak's and Revan's trails, maybe it would be a good idea to talk to the crew and find out if there's anything going on with them.
T3-M4, how are you doing?
Excellent.
Zaalbar, maybe you have something to say?
OK, maybe not.
Well, I'm sure Mission will have something to talk about, right Mission?
Mission?
Mission is pretty confident she'll get over the destruction of her entire planet, which is good to hear.
And speaking of Taris, did we ever really finish that conversation about Mission's brother?
Hmm. Not sure what to think about this.
So let's not.
Instead, let's see if Canderous has any interesting stories to tell.
Yes, I think we've established that bit already.
I don't know about that. I made my renown and fortune by getting goods into places the Republic didn't want them to go.
Uhm... Before I became a Jedi, of course.
Now I try to get people into places the Sith don't want them to go.
In any case, Canderous, you were saying?
The Sith?
Strange.
I thought Revan and Malak reformed the Sith (again). But apparently something was already going on before they even left to fight the Mandalorians.
Anyway, Canderous goes on about how the proud Mandalorians always risk everything they have in every battle they fight and that by doing so they became great. For a while.
I have to say this for the guy: he's not a sore loser.
And he's even man enough to admit that he cries. Great manly tears of manliness, no doubt, but tears nonetheless.
Even so...
He doesn't want to talk about it.
Well, enough fun and games. I'm still not entirely certain about that vision thing. Maybe Bastila, the most experienced Jedi of our little crew, can shed a little more light on it.
Uhm... good question.
Gosh, that helped explain things.
Say, how did we get bonded to each other anyway?
So, armed with absolutely no answers whatsoever, it's time to set out.
Or it would, if a Twi'lek didn't suddenly walk up to me. Well... Mission.
What a coincidence. We were just talking about you.
Not surprisingly, Mission isn't at all happy to see Lena. Lena is a bit confused because she thought Mission wanted to stay behind on Taris so she doesn't see why Mission is so angry with her.
I have to say, Lena clearly isn't overendowed in the brains department if she honestly thinks Twi'leks would really, really want to live on that xenophobic backwater.
Anyway...
I want to say I'm surprised to hear that it was Griff's brother leeching off of Lena instead of the other way around like Mission claimed, but, you know, I just can't.
Things continue to deteriorate and someone with a clearer head (like me) suggests that maybe we should hear Griff's side of the story.
Tatooine, huh?
Well, I can't say I see me going to that obscure bit of floating sand, but if we stumble across it somehow... well, who knows?
Anyways, time to set out.
Kind of.
This guy is pretty angry, to say the least. Wonder what happend.
Ah.
Such a lust for revenge can't be healthy, can it? I mean, OK, it doesn't do to let murders and kidnappers run around doing whatever they want to do, but... well, anger and hate rarely produce anything good.
Now then, time to set out.
I should have guessed.
Considering the angry guy's story from just now that seems like a good possibility. However, some things seem a bit off, like the woman's companion being alone in the house, the doors being closed, there not being any signs of force in any way.
Maybe this wasn't a kidnapping. Maybe he just ran away.
Well... OK. Whatever.
I promise the woman I'll look for the droid whenever I'm not too busy killing Mandalorians, looking into a family feud that's on the edge of becoming seriously violent and, you know, saving the Republic from being destroyed by the Sith.
And with all that out of the way, it's finally time to set out.
The Endar Spire is boring (if mercifully brief), Taris is boring, Dantooine is boring, Kashyyyk is boring, Manaan is boring and Tatooine is horrendously overused (and boring).
In the novelization of Return of the Jedi, when Luke is hit by Palpatine with lightning, he describes it as a "corruption of the Force". I agree that the powers themselves aren't evil - and Kyle Katarn uses it, if that's any help - but none of the Jedi in the films use it. Yoda counters it with something that can't be seen, and doesn't deign to use it himself on either Dooku or Sidious. Seeing as none of the Jedi in the films use it, I guess we can take Luke's word for it that it's something evil and wrong.
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
Obviously you've never had fun with the droid lady nor the romeo and juliet quest. Both are hilariously dark and easily the best two dark side quests in either game.
Obviously you've never had fun with the droid lady nor the romeo and juliet quest. Both are hilariously dark and easily the best two dark side quests in either game.
I've actually never done the romeo and juliet quest on a dark-side playthrough. Messing with the droid lady is fun though, I'll grant you that.
I guess Dantooine is better than Manaan, now that I think about it. Underwater levels are always bad.
Posts
You mean ep.2? The only good parts involved clones. I mean the actual war itself though.
KOTOR II is primarily about the fact that both the Jedi and the Sith are extremist dicks.
That's someone who knows what he's talking about. Case in point, the above mentioned Jedi methods that crank out plenty of Sith/Dark Jedi on their own.
Well...at least the Jedi won't kick my dog if I chain it up outside a store! Sith bastards...:|
Instead the Jedi will just kill you, your friends, and then your family for being cruel enough to chain your dog outside...
Ah...touche...
It should come down to more shades of nuance than
Or as I've quoted before:
In any case, though, I'm really hoping for Gizka's team to finish soon. Even though I've read through all of Scorchy's LP, I still want to experience KotOR II myself, considering how awesome it seems to be.
The moral arguments set against the backdrop of two such strongly contrasting religions (Jedi, Sith) based on a core concept (the Force) just makes for interesting discussion, I think, especially when you have characters crossing between the two and others straddling or using both.
If Anakin hadn't been as finely manipulated by Palaptine and had managed to learn the ability to give life with the Force but had used it in his role as a Jedi Knight, he would have probably been outcast by both factions.
I think the biggest question I like to toy with is this; do the Jedi exemplify all that is of the Light Side of the Force and do the Sith exemplify all that is the Dark Side of the Force?
And is there a truly Dark/Light-convergent Neutral aspect of the Force? The part that seeks to bring balance, initiating the prophecy, etc leading up the decimation of both Jedi and Sith. From the point of the movies (not taking into account the EU), there are basically no known Jedi left aside from Luke and to a far lesser extent Leia.
I find those questions interesting.
There can be shades of intent. In the movies and the EU, we constantly see the path to a Sith's fall filled to the brim with good intentions. However, once the fall to the dark side has happened, the good intentions tend to fall along the wayside. They get completely forgotten about, even.
They might whine and cry about it every so often about what they're mad about, but they are irredeemably (sometimes) evil and there's no changing that. Once they have been corrupted by the dark side of the force, they are ultimately selfish and do things to their own ends.
Anyway, my point wasn't about the subtlety of being evil or whether you can start out with good intentions or anything.
It was simply that the light/dark meter in KOTOR fit the setting far better than something more complex like what's in Mass Effect by grace of, well, the setting, and how black and white it is in the concretely canon material. Because it is very black and white.
"What makes a man turn neutral ... Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality!?"
Anyway, a lot of the game-based Expanded Universe seems alright (I've never read any books or comics or...pretty much anything outside of the movies, KotOR and some other games), but a simple perusal of the wikipedia page makes much of the universe infinitely boring, and it generally works like this:
Galactic empire/republic teeters on collapse due to stagnation/previous war/corruption
Evil force of sith grows
Super Jedi springs up, gets corrupted
Even better jedi springs up/former super jedi is redeemed
Evil is extinguished (or is it?! dun dun dun)
Galactic Government eventually reinstated until some force breaks it down again and the cycle repeats 6 trillion times
This seems to be the way the SW story goes after Return of the Jedi, too (apparently some of Luke's kids are evil, and some of them are good, and some of them become evil and then eventually good or whatever). Apparently no one studies history in the Star Wars universe, or they're just fans of boring cycles; I'm not sure what the problem is...
(at least the KotORs are fun because you're engaged in the story, but it's kind of depressing knowing that the same thing that you're fighting for/against is just going to be happening in the exact same way 10,000 more times)
I guess the issue with trying to play with a setting that has the scope of Star Wars is that it lends itself very easily to that kind of conflict. Trying to focus in on a smaller part of the universe may not make it 'feel' like Star Wars.
It's one of the reasons why I want to see/hear/read/play more about Revan, because while it bears numerous similarities to the 'standard' Star Wars cycle, it has twists and ongoing elements that could bear interesting fruit.
What's your level, what are your attributes? What's you're To-Hit bonus? Just because you have two in dual-wielding doesn't mean anything if your stats are low enough that the penalty you suffer even with the second tier duel-wielding feat kills your To-Hit bonus.
Also, don't be afraid to use any shields, stims, force powers, or healing items you might have. You'll have plenty more later.
The surface can be tough in the area right before the military base, but it shouldn't be impossible by any means.
Level 9, there's a +11 next to one of the blades and something lower next to the other, my strength is around 15 or so...
And yeah, I'm using shields and what not, I'm just having a devil of a time hitting them.
Another odd thing, after completing the Ithorian quest line, I got a call that their HQ was being attacked, I head over there and both my companions are GONE. So there's no way I'm plowing through all those guys by myself. I head down to the surface and they reappear though. Is the game THAT buggy? Are there any must have fixes? It's patched and what not at the very least.
I don't know though, look at the first half of the 20th century. Germans "start" (it was more complicated than that) war, get owned, sit down for a while and get back up again.
Wars come and go and in the star wars universe the easiest way to personally amass alot of power was to wield the force. It seems though using the force can easily polarize your views hence very few nuetral and just mainly light/dark jedis.
The thing that pisses me off about the EU is that it was always about the skywalkers. Tell a different story please. It was one of the things I really dug about KotOR, there were no goddam secret stashes hidden by that old time smuggler han solo.
Satans..... hints.....
But the random name generator did include Solo and Organa as possible last names. And there's at least one reference to the early screenplays and Luke's original name.
Not that that's at all the same, of course.
Well, to be fair, many historians now consider WW2 to be a psuedo-continuation of WW1 due to the peace terms levied against Germany, and that's still just one giant war which is sort of the equivalent of one Sith-Jedi fight that repeats itself every few hundred of years, apparently. All of the Jedi-Sith stuff is just galaxy-sweeping changes (that is: not like medieval warfare where you take some land or vassalize someone or conquer land to expand your power; this is like if Germany won and the whole world became Nazi, and then a few years later a resistance rises up and creates a democracy, only to fall to Nazis again a century later).
Apparently every generation of the Skywalker hegemony has managed to swing the galaxy one way and back. You'd think the galactic population would just be weary of these 'epic power struggles' already in KotOR.
That all just seems really lame to me; it's fun enough in KotOR and such when you're playing it individually, but come on, who writes this sith?
(some consider puns to be the lowest form of comedy, but that's a pun/psuedo-typo, which is much better)
What's next? The Exile is one of Solo's ancestors?
Oddly, no, just another Skywalker - exile is Female in the cannon, right? Revan and Exile get it on and make space-babies on Tatooine that become the Skywalker clan.
[/bullshit (I hope)]
I
I was just thinking the exact same thing.
"Hrm, Moe as a representative of the ultimate evil. I
It helps that I've been reading through The Ultimate Calvin and Hobbes lately.
Ugh, what the hell. Lucas better not have done such a thing.
Oh fuck you George.
I'm not a fan of Tim Buckley, but a while back (I think it was when Galaxies got dumbed down to a hand full of classes, all of them clones of OT characters) he summed the Lucas Star Wars experience up perfectly. It's like a universe of infinite possibility and Lucas insists on making it as small as possible.
Not every god damn thing in the universe that ever was or ever will be is connected to Luke mother-fucking Skywalker. What's wrong with telling stories with no connection to the characters from the movies, huh?
And while we're at it, for a dust ball at the end of the universe why does Tatooine have to factor into every SW story ever told?
Because Luke's from there. Sorry, but that's pretty much it.
I would at least retcon in some sort of galactically critical natural resource on Tatooine before I made it such a central world. It's not like Lucas didn't borrow concepts from Dune already.
Edit: Then again, planets that do have galactically critical resources do exist, and are nowhere to be seen. If Kessel is so important and Han's career is smuggling out of there, why the heck does he never go near the place?
Because it's wise to only do death defying routes through black hole infested territory when absolutely totally and completely necessary?
(also, to impress chicks and potential clients)
Also; I need my fix of KOTOR!
It won't be a very huge update, but an update all the same.
It was directed at both the universe in general, and you as a side note in regards to how much I love the thread, rather than a demand that you work harder while I bask in your glory.
Small, big, whatever, I just
That said, the "OMG BIG SPOILER" in the middle'ish blew me away. Maybe I should've seen it coming, but I felt it was both well hinted at and not totally obvious, and I loved the reveal.
She hates my guts unfortunately, because apparently talking to Visaas is enough for her to get grumpy about it. She actually told me never to talk to her again. Never happened on my first three characters.
Intermission
Now that I have my very own Jedi robes, it's time to speak with the Council again.
Ah yes. That creepy vision about Malak and Revan standing around in front of some dark door and wondering if they should go in. Apparently, the door from that vision belonged to a ruin conveniently located near the Jedi Enclave. Since I was the one to have the vision, Master Vandar thinks I should be the one to investigate those ruins.
Which, according to Malak, were just brimming with the power of the Dark Side.
Yeah, I'm not so sure if sending a barely-Padawan over there is such a good idea. You know, in terms of me surviving.
Still, orders are orders. Besides, I won't be going in alone.
The link thing is true. But on the other hand, doesn't Bastila have this really powerful gift that can turn the tide of entire battles? Shouldn't she head to somewhere near the front lines where her gift could actually be used?
I'm probably not seeing the big picture here.
Anyways, when I'm just about to leave, the meeting is interrupted.
Hmm. Two families already practically at each other's throats, one of them has now gone missing and, if not treated with care, this whole thing could blow up in spectacular fashion.
Nice.
And by 'we' Vandar means me.
I'm not sure if I should be flattered, disturbed or worried that the Council is heaping so many responsibilities onto my shoulders.
In any case, before we head out on Malak's and Revan's trails, maybe it would be a good idea to talk to the crew and find out if there's anything going on with them.
T3-M4, how are you doing?
Excellent.
Zaalbar, maybe you have something to say?
OK, maybe not.
Well, I'm sure Mission will have something to talk about, right Mission?
Mission?
Mission is pretty confident she'll get over the destruction of her entire planet, which is good to hear.
And speaking of Taris, did we ever really finish that conversation about Mission's brother?
Hmm. Not sure what to think about this.
So let's not.
Instead, let's see if Canderous has any interesting stories to tell.
Yes, I think we've established that bit already.
I don't know about that. I made my renown and fortune by getting goods into places the Republic didn't want them to go.
Uhm... Before I became a Jedi, of course.
Now I try to get people into places the Sith don't want them to go.
In any case, Canderous, you were saying?
The Sith?
Strange.
I thought Revan and Malak reformed the Sith (again). But apparently something was already going on before they even left to fight the Mandalorians.
Anyway, Canderous goes on about how the proud Mandalorians always risk everything they have in every battle they fight and that by doing so they became great. For a while.
I have to say this for the guy: he's not a sore loser.
And he's even man enough to admit that he cries. Great manly tears of manliness, no doubt, but tears nonetheless.
Even so...
He doesn't want to talk about it.
Well, enough fun and games. I'm still not entirely certain about that vision thing. Maybe Bastila, the most experienced Jedi of our little crew, can shed a little more light on it.
Uhm... good question.
Gosh, that helped explain things.
Say, how did we get bonded to each other anyway?
So, armed with absolutely no answers whatsoever, it's time to set out.
Or it would, if a Twi'lek didn't suddenly walk up to me. Well... Mission.
What a coincidence. We were just talking about you.
Not surprisingly, Mission isn't at all happy to see Lena. Lena is a bit confused because she thought Mission wanted to stay behind on Taris so she doesn't see why Mission is so angry with her.
I have to say, Lena clearly isn't overendowed in the brains department if she honestly thinks Twi'leks would really, really want to live on that xenophobic backwater.
Anyway...
I want to say I'm surprised to hear that it was Griff's brother leeching off of Lena instead of the other way around like Mission claimed, but, you know, I just can't.
Things continue to deteriorate and someone with a clearer head (like me) suggests that maybe we should hear Griff's side of the story.
Tatooine, huh?
Well, I can't say I see me going to that obscure bit of floating sand, but if we stumble across it somehow... well, who knows?
Anyways, time to set out.
Kind of.
This guy is pretty angry, to say the least. Wonder what happend.
Ah.
Such a lust for revenge can't be healthy, can it? I mean, OK, it doesn't do to let murders and kidnappers run around doing whatever they want to do, but... well, anger and hate rarely produce anything good.
Now then, time to set out.
I should have guessed.
Considering the angry guy's story from just now that seems like a good possibility. However, some things seem a bit off, like the woman's companion being alone in the house, the doors being closed, there not being any signs of force in any way.
Maybe this wasn't a kidnapping. Maybe he just ran away.
Well... OK. Whatever.
I promise the woman I'll look for the droid whenever I'm not too busy killing Mandalorians, looking into a family feud that's on the edge of becoming seriously violent and, you know, saving the Republic from being destroyed by the Sith.
And with all that out of the way, it's finally time to set out.
There have been hax in the past but most don't work.
Fixed
The Endar Spire is boring (if mercifully brief), Taris is boring, Dantooine is boring, Kashyyyk is boring, Manaan is boring and Tatooine is horrendously overused (and boring).
Why do people even like this game!? :P
In the novelization of Return of the Jedi, when Luke is hit by Palpatine with lightning, he describes it as a "corruption of the Force". I agree that the powers themselves aren't evil - and Kyle Katarn uses it, if that's any help - but none of the Jedi in the films use it. Yoda counters it with something that can't be seen, and doesn't deign to use it himself on either Dooku or Sidious. Seeing as none of the Jedi in the films use it, I guess we can take Luke's word for it that it's something evil and wrong.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
Obviously you've never had fun with the droid lady nor the romeo and juliet quest. Both are hilariously dark and easily the best two dark side quests in either game.
I've actually never done the romeo and juliet quest on a dark-side playthrough. Messing with the droid lady is fun though, I'll grant you that.
I guess Dantooine is better than Manaan, now that I think about it. Underwater levels are always bad.