I think the surprise is that most phones work perfectly fine after being unlocked. The difference is that this is Apple, who never had phones before, so you've got a company that likes to have total control over its software entering the cellphone market where unlocking is common. I think it could have gone either way.
I'm now left with the vague suspicion they might set it to burst into flames when I install Ubuntu on it.
That would be a relevant example if people were installing new os' on their iphones, but they're not - they're slightly modifying the existing ones. A better example would be if you got a macbook pro and...I don't know, hacking a .mac account? I got nothing.
This isn't apple being 'evil', this is a bunch of customers being 'retarded'. Everyone knew beforehand that a) they'd need an at&t contract to get an iPhone, b) apple would release updates for it, as they are wont to do, which would be designed towards *surprise* working on the at&t network.
I don't have a problem with people wanting to hack their devices, but you should have realized beforehand that you'd have to deal with the consequences.
Now, as far as legitimate customer's shit not working, that's pretty lame - but I somehow doubt that it was on purpose. I'm guessing that it will be fixed in a later update.
Completely true. The Iphone in the end is just a phone. And what do ALL (I work for one of the top 5 cell phone companies, I deal with this on a daily basis) cell phone companies do? They supply updates. Once these updates hit, the phone reverts to using the original network it was designed for, but it's billing still updates to the company you hacked your phone to. Basically creating ENDLESS roaming charges. Granted, the phones don't become total bricks, but they do generate $500 bills in one month. Acting surprised that Apple did this is just foolish.
Optimus: Fine, you got me. The BBC article was paraphrasing.
However, your original accusation of me removing the world "likely" from a quote in the OP to change the meaning of the quote is also wrong. So...nyaaah :P
It's not surprising. I mean Apple has been known as the unhacked system now for years. Mac's have been the "safe" computer since there are almost no virus attacks. But now their ego has been challenged, they've been hacked, so their response isn't all that surprising.
Sorry, but what?
Are you equating people that unlock phones to virus writers?
I'm now left with the vague suspicion they might set it to burst into flames when I install Ubuntu on it.
That would be a relevant example if people were installing new os' on their iphones, but they're not - they're slightly modifying the existing ones. A better example would be if you got a macbook pro and...I don't know, hacking a .mac account? I got nothing.
They're unlocking it to use a different carrier, which is a basic consumer expectation.
I can't think of any other phone where a firmware upgrade has hosed the device, so either they did it on purpose or Apple are just incredibly bad at designing phones.
Once these updates hit, the phone reverts to using the original network it was designed for, but it's billing still updates to the company you hacked your phone to. Basically creating ENDLESS roaming charges. Granted, the phones don't become total bricks, but they do generate $500 bills in one month. Acting surprised that Apple did this is just foolish.
Oh, really? I've never unlocked a phone, so I'm unaware of how this works. So people who unlock phones and expect that to be a commonly used option just never get updates, even the ones that provide much needed interface fixes(like double spacebar-period, double-tap home button, video out for the iPhone)?
I'm now left with the vague suspicion they might set it to burst into flames when I install Ubuntu on it.
That would be a relevant example if people were installing new os' on their iphones, but they're not - they're slightly modifying the existing ones. A better example would be if you got a macbook pro and...I don't know, hacking a .mac account? I got nothing.
They're unlocking it to use a different carrier, which is a basic consumer expectation.
I can't think of any other phone where a firmware upgrade has hosed the device, so either they did it on purpose or Apple are just incredibly bad at designing phones.
Dude, every company puts out updates that screws the pooch on the device one way or another. Normally they don't become bricks, but they do become useless unless you want to pay 5 times as much a month.
The only thing Apple is really screwing up on is causing data loss on AT&T's legit customers.
Long story short. Go find a Linux device. Or just don't download updates.
Being accused of things you didn't do is always annoying.
Besides, being exaggeratedly angry on the internet is both fun and easy!
Friends don't let friends take the internet seriously.
Haha. Don't think I am dude. I'm not seriously angry, or even annoyed. I'm just munching cheerily on some pocket pizzas while I wait for it to get close enough to class time to leave.
you know it also could have been that whatever firmware change apple made messes with how the hacks works. maybe if apple did this on the sly without warning that people might be fucked then we would have an issue but the first two pages of this thread are ridiculous with people bashing what has occurred.
oh and people losing important information by updating that do not have hacked phones? um i call bullshit. that just means that for a few people they lost all their texts/photos/mp3's since they probably had to do a restore since something fucked up. it sucks yes however thats far from being bricked or terribly evil for those innocent users.
It's not surprising. I mean Apple has been known as the unhacked system now for years. Mac's have been the "safe" computer since there are almost no virus attacks. But now their ego has been challenged, they've been hacked, so their response isn't all that surprising.
Apple has NEVER been any more difficult to hack than anything else.
In fact, the reason why there are so few Apple viruses is simply because, in the whole scheme of things, thy have such a small market share, and if you're a virus programmer, you're looking to make a big scene, and be noticed, so you're going to go with the platform that everyone has, not the tiny little niche market.
If Apple every became comperably size to Microsoft, they would get just as many viruses, etc., if not more, just because they don't have as much experience having to deal with them.
Optimus: Fine, you got me. The BBC article was paraphrasing.
However, your original accusation of me removing the world "likely" from a quote in the OP to change the meaning of the quote is also wrong. So...nyaaah :P
Yeah, once it became obvious you were confused about the source quote I realized you didn't do it on purpose. No worries, love-peace-&-chicken-grease, etc.
Just a couple weeks ago, I was agonizing over which phone to get. I had an iPhone in my hand, at the Apple store, and just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I mean, it's way overpriced, and I knew I'd have to unlock it to get what I wanted out of it, but it's such a sweet piece of hardware.
Then I saw this, and it wound up being a no-brainer.
Every time I see someone bragging about an iPhone, now, I just sort of laugh.
It's not surprising. I mean Apple has been known as the unhacked system now for years. Mac's have been the "safe" computer since there are almost no virus attacks. But now their ego has been challenged, they've been hacked, so their response isn't all that surprising.
Apple has NEVER been any more difficult to hack than anything else.
In fact, the reason why there are so few Apple viruses is simply because, in the whole scheme of things, thy have such a small market share, and if you're a virus programmer, you're looking to make a big scene, and be noticed, so you're going to go with the platform that everyone has, not the tiny little niche market.
If Apple every became comperably size to Microsoft, they would get just as many viruses, etc., if not more, just because they don't have as much experience having to deal with them.
I never said they were hard to hack. You just interpreted it that way. All I said is they have been the unhacked company. I never argued that they were easy to hack at all. I've had this discussion in both my business ethics class and my CS classes and everyone will always agree it simply has to do with their market share. All I was trying to say was that Apple simply overacted a bit to the problem. They could have find a less harsh/more creative alternative rather than creating bricks.
I think the surprise is that most phones work perfectly fine after being unlocked. The difference is that this is Apple, who never had phones before, so you've got a company that likes to have total control over its software entering the cellphone market where unlocking is common. I think it could have gone either way.
Absolutely correct, and this all opens a window into an even larger topic.
Apple has NOT been behaving like a regular cell phone manufacturerin any way since entering the cellphone market, and it has definitely been hurting their perception. Unlike mp3 players, which were still new and strange to consumers when Apple got their feet wet in that market, cellphones are ubiquitous, and everyone is familiar with them. Everyone is used to certain trends and standards within the cellphone market, and Apple has been ignoring these things, by refusing to subsidize their price, then dropping the price so quickly, and the whole "enforced" closed system thing as well. Apple seems to be pulling a Sony here, and assuming that they can rewrite the rules of the market, just because they're Apple, but this might just come back to bite them in the ass.
I can't think of any other phone where a firmware upgrade has hosed the device, so either they did it on purpose or Apple are just incredibly bad at designing phones.
Wait, what?
Users changing vital operating code and data, then trying to apply correct code changes over that with an official update... is poor design?
Do you even understand the design process of any electronic device or are you just Nerd #12299 who doesn't have a clue about anything?
EDIT: Oh and by the way, data loss? Your phone backs up every time you connect it, so "data loss" for legitimate customers is reduced to simply syncing your phone to the computer again.
I'm now left with the vague suspicion they might set it to burst into flames when I install Ubuntu on it.
That would be a relevant example if people were installing new os' on their iphones, but they're not - they're slightly modifying the existing ones. A better example would be if you got a macbook pro and...I don't know, hacking a .mac account? I got nothing.
They're unlocking it to use a different carrier, which is a basic consumer expectation.
I can't think of any other phone where a firmware upgrade has hosed the device, so either they did it on purpose or Apple are just incredibly bad at designing phones.
Except for this is America, where that's really not a basic consumer expectation at all. (I'm not saying this is a good thing).
Also, you're placing the blame entirely on Apple's shoulder's, and none on the developer of the hack. Maybe he's just bad at designing unobtrusive hacks?
It's not surprising. I mean Apple has been known as the unhacked system now for years. Mac's have been the "safe" computer since there are almost no virus attacks. But now their ego has been challenged, they've been hacked, so their response isn't all that surprising.
Apple has NEVER been any more difficult to hack than anything else.
In fact, the reason why there are so few Apple viruses is simply because, in the whole scheme of things, thy have such a small market share, and if you're a virus programmer, you're looking to make a big scene, and be noticed, so you're going to go with the platform that everyone has, not the tiny little niche market.
If Apple every became comperably size to Microsoft, they would get just as many viruses, etc., if not more, just because they don't have as much experience having to deal with them.
I never said they were hard to hack. You just interpreted it that way. All I said is they have been the unhacked company. I never argued that they were easy to hack at all. I've had this discussion in both my business ethics class and my CS classes and everyone will always agree it simply has to do with their market share. All I was trying to say was that Apple simply overacted a bit to the problem. They could have find a less harsh/more creative alternative rather than creating bricks.
That was more general clarification than some kind of direct attack, although your wording made it ambiguos as to WHY you called them unhacked (they definitely HAVE been hacked in the past, just not often, for the above mentioned reasons).
Just a couple weeks ago, I was agonizing over which phone to get. I had an iPhone in my hand, at the Apple store, and just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I mean, it's way overpriced, and I knew I'd have to unlock it to get what I wanted out of it, but it's such a sweet piece of hardware.
Then I saw this, and it wound up being a no-brainer.
Every time I see someone bragging about an iPhone, now, I just sort of laugh.
Pfft. It doesn't have the touch screen. This loses!!
Kidding. I think the iPhone is just a beacon for us to point out the tools of the world.
I think the surprise is that most phones work perfectly fine after being unlocked. The difference is that this is Apple, who never had phones before, so you've got a company that likes to have total control over its software entering the cellphone market where unlocking is common. I think it could have gone either way.
Absolutely correct, and this all opens a window into an even larger topic.
Apple has NOT been behaving like a regular cell phone manufacturerin any way since entering the cellphone market, and it has definitely been hurting their perception. Unlike mp3 players, which were still new and strange to consumers when Apple got their feet wet in that market, cellphones are ubiquitous, and everyone is familiar with them. Everyone is used to certain trends and standards within the cellphone market, and Apple has been ignoring these things, by refusing to subsidize their price, then dropping the price so quickly, and the whole "enforced" closed system thing as well. Apple seems to be pulling a Sony here, and assuming that they can rewrite the rules of the market, just because they're Apple, but this might just come back to bite them in the ass.
what are you talking about plenty of other companies are doing what apple has. this is nothing new. just because apple is not acting like rim and palm and allowing any third party shit on them doesnt mean that danger has been friends with third party software. true thats a slightly different scenario since their is third party applications and games on the danger os however it all has to be approved by danger. the danger os is locked just as much as the iphones os. nothing new.
Just a couple weeks ago, I was agonizing over which phone to get. I had an iPhone in my hand, at the Apple store, and just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I mean, it's way overpriced, and I knew I'd have to unlock it to get what I wanted out of it, but it's such a sweet piece of hardware.
Then I saw this, and it wound up being a no-brainer.
Every time I see someone bragging about an iPhone, now, I just sort of laugh.
If I were to get rid of my SERO plan, that is the phone I'd go with.
Right now, though, on SERO, I have myeye on the HTC Mogul, for when I get tired of my Treo 700wx
Just a couple weeks ago, I was agonizing over which phone to get. I had an iPhone in my hand, at the Apple store, and just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I mean, it's way overpriced, and I knew I'd have to unlock it to get what I wanted out of it, but it's such a sweet piece of hardware.
Then I saw this, and it wound up being a no-brainer.
Every time I see someone bragging about an iPhone, now, I just sort of laugh.
Dude the Ocean is an awesome phone. And for those of you who find T-mobile to be a slackass company, there's always the HTC 6800/ which both Sprint, Alltel and Verizon are running.
Dude, every company puts out updates that screws the pooch on the device one way or another. Normally they don't become bricks, but they do become useless unless you want to pay 5 times as much a month.
Sorry, but I'm not following you here.
Also, slight tangent, but are carriers in the US required to unlock phones on request after the original contract expires? It's a regulatory requirement over here (like number portability), and across most of Europe, but I don't know how it works in the US. I might be making assumptions that don't apply. (EDIT: Seems I am, answered on previous page)
My point is that I've never run across a situation where updating the frmware on a phone has been a problem, and it's not like unlocked phones are rare.
I think the surprise is that most phones work perfectly fine after being unlocked. The difference is that this is Apple, who never had phones before, so you've got a company that likes to have total control over its software entering the cellphone market where unlocking is common. I think it could have gone either way.
Absolutely correct, and this all opens a window into an even larger topic.
Apple has NOT been behaving like a regular cell phone manufacturerin any way since entering the cellphone market, and it has definitely been hurting their perception. Unlike mp3 players, which were still new and strange to consumers when Apple got their feet wet in that market, cellphones are ubiquitous, and everyone is familiar with them. Everyone is used to certain trends and standards within the cellphone market, and Apple has been ignoring these things, by refusing to subsidize their price, then dropping the price so quickly, and the whole "enforced" closed system thing as well. Apple seems to be pulling a Sony here, and assuming that they can rewrite the rules of the market, just because they're Apple, but this might just come back to bite them in the ass.
what are you talking about plenty of other companies are doing what apple has. this is nothing new. just because apple is not acting like rim and palm and allowing any third party shit on them doesnt mean that danger has been friends with third party software. true thats a slightly different scenario since their is third party applications and games on the danger os however it all has to be approved by danger. the danger os is locked just as much as the iphones os. nothing new.
what is the danger os?
And, to be fair, I'm talking about hardware, not software.
It's not as bad as they say, I don't think any iPhones have been bricked with an unlock, but they do become unusable for calling at the moment, until it's re-hacked.
Honestly, all I care about is using the third party apps, and the Gizmodo info I saw yesterday tested out unlocking and third party apps on the iPhone, updating them without reverting them first. I wonder if there'll be a way to totally remove the apps, update, and then put the apps back on.
As unfortunate as this all is, I still cannot find any way to get a new pda/smartphone and mp3 player, that I like, that has the features I want for as much or less than the iPhone. I've got a great family plan deal with AT&T now, so I'd likely stay with them anyways, and other phones will have more expensive data plans, and I'm not going to find a satisfactory mp3 player for anything less than $150 to $200.
They're bricked. If you try to apply 1.1.1 to an unlocked iPhone, the phone's IMEI is modified and it is reverted to a pre-activcation state. No re-activation is then possible - even legitimate. I legitimately activated my iPhone when I bought it, but I later unlocked it so I could freely bounce between whatever SIM card I felt like. Now, I'm basically stuck at version 1.0.2 - If I dare to update to 1.1.1, my phone will be trashed. Even though my purchase, activation, and subscription was done through legitimate means.
Apple may or may not be able to get away with this in the USA, there are some gray areas. But in Europe? If Apple tries to pull a stunt like this (trashing unlocked iPhones), they will be hit hard by various governments.
At this point, I am ready to go as closely to 100% open source for my computing needs as I possibly can. Unfortunately, I still need Windows for some things, and OSX for others. There is less and less honesty in closed system companies.
I was always surprised they limited themselves to one carrier to begin with. Seems like the phone sold at least okay regardless, but they had to know that it would hurt sales pretty bad by forcing many people to switch their plans for even more expensive ones.
i really do not see the appeal of the ocean. its had plenty of bugs and if i wanted another bloated phone id go back to a sidekick. but thats just me. its all opinion really.
it just annoys me that it seems lots of people want the iphone to fail just because. for their first entry apple is not being the most evil bastards that some of you make them out to be.
Just a couple weeks ago, I was agonizing over which phone to get. I had an iPhone in my hand, at the Apple store, and just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I mean, it's way overpriced, and I knew I'd have to unlock it to get what I wanted out of it, but it's such a sweet piece of hardware.
Then I saw this, and it wound up being a no-brainer.
Every time I see someone bragging about an iPhone, now, I just sort of laugh.
Can I use it on a service that is not helio though?
I love the phone, but I wish Verizon would carry something like it. They are the only cell carrier to have decent cell service in my area.
I think the surprise is that most phones work perfectly fine after being unlocked. The difference is that this is Apple, who never had phones before, so you've got a company that likes to have total control over its software entering the cellphone market where unlocking is common. I think it could have gone either way.
Absolutely correct, and this all opens a window into an even larger topic.
Apple has NOT been behaving like a regular cell phone manufacturerin any way since entering the cellphone market, and it has definitely been hurting their perception. Unlike mp3 players, which were still new and strange to consumers when Apple got their feet wet in that market, cellphones are ubiquitous, and everyone is familiar with them. Everyone is used to certain trends and standards within the cellphone market, and Apple has been ignoring these things, by refusing to subsidize their price, then dropping the price so quickly, and the whole "enforced" closed system thing as well. Apple seems to be pulling a Sony here, and assuming that they can rewrite the rules of the market, just because they're Apple, but this might just come back to bite them in the ass.
what are you talking about plenty of other companies are doing what apple has. this is nothing new. just because apple is not acting like rim and palm and allowing any third party shit on them doesnt mean that danger has been friends with third party software. true thats a slightly different scenario since their is third party applications and games on the danger os however it all has to be approved by danger. the danger os is locked just as much as the iphones os. nothing new.
what is the danger os?
And, to be fair, I'm talking about hardware, not software.
danger os is what runs on sidekicks. and since its exclusive to the sidekick line it is tied to the hardware. its actually quite a slick os.
i really do not see the appeal of the ocean. its had plenty of bugs and if i wanted another bloated phone id go back to a sidekick. but thats just me. its all opinion really.
it just annoys me that it seems lots of people want the iphone to fail just because. for their first entry apple is not being the most evil bastards that some of you make them out to be.
The appeal of the Ocean has much to do with the appeal of the service that it is on.
Also, don't compare it to smartphones, because it isn't one. It is a "Feature Phone"
Just a couple weeks ago, I was agonizing over which phone to get. I had an iPhone in my hand, at the Apple store, and just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I mean, it's way overpriced, and I knew I'd have to unlock it to get what I wanted out of it, but it's such a sweet piece of hardware.
Then I saw this, and it wound up being a no-brainer.
Every time I see someone bragging about an iPhone, now, I just sort of laugh.
If I were to get rid of my SERO plan, that is the phone I'd go with.
Right now, though, on SERO, I have myeye on the HTC Mogul, for when I get tired of my Treo 700wx
Sorry, I was a little vague on that one :P
I'm ready to ditch my 700wx any day now. Poor battery life, bluetooth that likes to freeze and reset every few days, not to mention it's just plain ugly. Although if you're bored, it is possible to change out the interface of the 700wx and any windows based smart phone with a mock Iphone interface haha.
I think the surprise is that most phones work perfectly fine after being unlocked. The difference is that this is Apple, who never had phones before, so you've got a company that likes to have total control over its software entering the cellphone market where unlocking is common. I think it could have gone either way.
Absolutely correct, and this all opens a window into an even larger topic.
Apple has NOT been behaving like a regular cell phone manufacturerin any way since entering the cellphone market, and it has definitely been hurting their perception. Unlike mp3 players, which were still new and strange to consumers when Apple got their feet wet in that market, cellphones are ubiquitous, and everyone is familiar with them. Everyone is used to certain trends and standards within the cellphone market, and Apple has been ignoring these things, by refusing to subsidize their price, then dropping the price so quickly, and the whole "enforced" closed system thing as well. Apple seems to be pulling a Sony here, and assuming that they can rewrite the rules of the market, just because they're Apple, but this might just come back to bite them in the ass.
what are you talking about plenty of other companies are doing what apple has. this is nothing new. just because apple is not acting like rim and palm and allowing any third party shit on them doesnt mean that danger has been friends with third party software. true thats a slightly different scenario since their is third party applications and games on the danger os however it all has to be approved by danger. the danger os is locked just as much as the iphones os. nothing new.
what is the danger os?
And, to be fair, I'm talking about hardware, not software.
danger os is what runs on sidekicks. and since its exclusive to the sidekick line it is tied to the hardware. its actually quite a slick os.
Ah, see, the sidekick is a sort of a niche market. Maybe the iPhone is no different from the sidekick, but for the cell phone market in general, which the iPhone has been drawing people from ALL areas of, the iPhone is much more controlled that the market generally allows, and the market may very well push back against it.
i really do not see the appeal of the ocean. its had plenty of bugs and if i wanted another bloated phone id go back to a sidekick. but thats just me. its all opinion really.
it just annoys me that it seems lots of people want the iphone to fail just because. for their first entry apple is not being the most evil bastards that some of you make them out to be.
How long did it take till the iPhone dropped in price? Did they offer the people who bought one, when it came out, some sort of compensation?
Just a couple weeks ago, I was agonizing over which phone to get. I had an iPhone in my hand, at the Apple store, and just couldn't bring myself to buy it. I mean, it's way overpriced, and I knew I'd have to unlock it to get what I wanted out of it, but it's such a sweet piece of hardware.
Then I saw this, and it wound up being a no-brainer.
Every time I see someone bragging about an iPhone, now, I just sort of laugh.
If I were to get rid of my SERO plan, that is the phone I'd go with.
Right now, though, on SERO, I have myeye on the HTC Mogul, for when I get tired of my Treo 700wx
Sorry, I was a little vague on that one :P
I'm ready to ditch my 700wx any day now. Poor battery life, bluetooth that likes to freeze and reset every few days, not to mention it's just plain ugly. Although if you're bored, it is possible to change out the interface of the 700wx and any windows based smart phone with a mock Iphone interface haha.
If I was eligable for an upgrade yet, I'd order the Mogul today.
But I don't mind waiting a couple of months if I have to.
so its ok that helio has a monopoly on the ocean right. shouldnt some of you be calling foul that a cdma phone wont work on verizon?
some people dont even consider the iphone a smartphone so i dont even know anymore nor does it care in my eyes, its all if the phone suits the individuals needs.
Once these updates hit, the phone reverts to using the original network it was designed for, but it's billing still updates to the company you hacked your phone to. Basically creating ENDLESS roaming charges. Granted, the phones don't become total bricks, but they do generate $500 bills in one month. Acting surprised that Apple did this is just foolish.
Oh, really? I've never unlocked a phone, so I'm unaware of how this works. So people who unlock phones and expect that to be a commonly used option just never get updates, even the ones that provide much needed interface fixes(like double spacebar-period, double-tap home button, video out for the iPhone)?
I know I'm late to this, but this is incorrect, at least with the legions of Nokia phones I've owned. I just ran a firmware update on my unlocked Finnish Nokia E61 and aside from a newer version of the software, nothing else about my configuration has changed.
I've never seen a phone (aside from the iPhone, due to contractual crap that everyone else is talking about) lock itself after a firmware update.
i really do not see the appeal of the ocean. its had plenty of bugs and if i wanted another bloated phone id go back to a sidekick. but thats just me. its all opinion really.
it just annoys me that it seems lots of people want the iphone to fail just because. for their first entry apple is not being the most evil bastards that some of you make them out to be.
How long did it take till the iPhone dropped in price? Did they offer the people who bought one, when it came out, some sort of compensation?
it was like 66 days which yes i think is bullshit however they offered everyone compensation of a 100 dollar rebate which casued me not to be so bitter. had they released a 16 gig model at the same time as the price cut yes then id be pissed off.
Posts
That would be a relevant example if people were installing new os' on their iphones, but they're not - they're slightly modifying the existing ones. A better example would be if you got a macbook pro and...I don't know, hacking a .mac account? I got nothing.
Completely true. The Iphone in the end is just a phone. And what do ALL (I work for one of the top 5 cell phone companies, I deal with this on a daily basis) cell phone companies do? They supply updates. Once these updates hit, the phone reverts to using the original network it was designed for, but it's billing still updates to the company you hacked your phone to. Basically creating ENDLESS roaming charges. Granted, the phones don't become total bricks, but they do generate $500 bills in one month. Acting surprised that Apple did this is just foolish.
However, your original accusation of me removing the world "likely" from a quote in the OP to change the meaning of the quote is also wrong. So...nyaaah :P
Sorry, but what?
Are you equating people that unlock phones to virus writers?
They're unlocking it to use a different carrier, which is a basic consumer expectation.
I can't think of any other phone where a firmware upgrade has hosed the device, so either they did it on purpose or Apple are just incredibly bad at designing phones.
Oh, really? I've never unlocked a phone, so I'm unaware of how this works. So people who unlock phones and expect that to be a commonly used option just never get updates, even the ones that provide much needed interface fixes(like double spacebar-period, double-tap home button, video out for the iPhone)?
Friends don't let friends take the internet seriously.
Dude, every company puts out updates that screws the pooch on the device one way or another. Normally they don't become bricks, but they do become useless unless you want to pay 5 times as much a month.
The only thing Apple is really screwing up on is causing data loss on AT&T's legit customers.
Long story short. Go find a Linux device. Or just don't download updates.
Haha. Don't think I am dude. I'm not seriously angry, or even annoyed. I'm just munching cheerily on some pocket pizzas while I wait for it to get close enough to class time to leave.
Which would be right now, later guys.
oh and people losing important information by updating that do not have hacked phones? um i call bullshit. that just means that for a few people they lost all their texts/photos/mp3's since they probably had to do a restore since something fucked up. it sucks yes however thats far from being bricked or terribly evil for those innocent users.
Apple has NEVER been any more difficult to hack than anything else.
In fact, the reason why there are so few Apple viruses is simply because, in the whole scheme of things, thy have such a small market share, and if you're a virus programmer, you're looking to make a big scene, and be noticed, so you're going to go with the platform that everyone has, not the tiny little niche market.
If Apple every became comperably size to Microsoft, they would get just as many viruses, etc., if not more, just because they don't have as much experience having to deal with them.
Yeah, once it became obvious you were confused about the source quote I realized you didn't do it on purpose. No worries, love-peace-&-chicken-grease, etc.
Then I saw this, and it wound up being a no-brainer.
Every time I see someone bragging about an iPhone, now, I just sort of laugh.
I never said they were hard to hack. You just interpreted it that way. All I said is they have been the unhacked company. I never argued that they were easy to hack at all. I've had this discussion in both my business ethics class and my CS classes and everyone will always agree it simply has to do with their market share. All I was trying to say was that Apple simply overacted a bit to the problem. They could have find a less harsh/more creative alternative rather than creating bricks.
Absolutely correct, and this all opens a window into an even larger topic.
Apple has NOT been behaving like a regular cell phone manufacturerin any way since entering the cellphone market, and it has definitely been hurting their perception. Unlike mp3 players, which were still new and strange to consumers when Apple got their feet wet in that market, cellphones are ubiquitous, and everyone is familiar with them. Everyone is used to certain trends and standards within the cellphone market, and Apple has been ignoring these things, by refusing to subsidize their price, then dropping the price so quickly, and the whole "enforced" closed system thing as well. Apple seems to be pulling a Sony here, and assuming that they can rewrite the rules of the market, just because they're Apple, but this might just come back to bite them in the ass.
Wait, what?
Users changing vital operating code and data, then trying to apply correct code changes over that with an official update... is poor design?
Do you even understand the design process of any electronic device or are you just Nerd #12299 who doesn't have a clue about anything?
EDIT: Oh and by the way, data loss? Your phone backs up every time you connect it, so "data loss" for legitimate customers is reduced to simply syncing your phone to the computer again.
Except for this is America, where that's really not a basic consumer expectation at all. (I'm not saying this is a good thing).
Also, you're placing the blame entirely on Apple's shoulder's, and none on the developer of the hack. Maybe he's just bad at designing unobtrusive hacks?
That was more general clarification than some kind of direct attack, although your wording made it ambiguos as to WHY you called them unhacked (they definitely HAVE been hacked in the past, just not often, for the above mentioned reasons).
Sorry if you took it the wrong way.
Pfft. It doesn't have the touch screen. This loses!!
what are you talking about plenty of other companies are doing what apple has. this is nothing new. just because apple is not acting like rim and palm and allowing any third party shit on them doesnt mean that danger has been friends with third party software. true thats a slightly different scenario since their is third party applications and games on the danger os however it all has to be approved by danger. the danger os is locked just as much as the iphones os. nothing new.
If I were to get rid of my SERO plan, that is the phone I'd go with.
Right now, though, on SERO, I have myeye on the HTC Mogul, for when I get tired of my Treo 700wx
Dude the Ocean is an awesome phone. And for those of you who find T-mobile to be a slackass company, there's always the HTC 6800/ which both Sprint, Alltel and Verizon are running.
Sorry, but I'm not following you here.
Also, slight tangent, but are carriers in the US required to unlock phones on request after the original contract expires? It's a regulatory requirement over here (like number portability), and across most of Europe, but I don't know how it works in the US. I might be making assumptions that don't apply. (EDIT: Seems I am, answered on previous page)
My point is that I've never run across a situation where updating the frmware on a phone has been a problem, and it's not like unlocked phones are rare.
what is the danger os?
And, to be fair, I'm talking about hardware, not software.
They're bricked. If you try to apply 1.1.1 to an unlocked iPhone, the phone's IMEI is modified and it is reverted to a pre-activcation state. No re-activation is then possible - even legitimate. I legitimately activated my iPhone when I bought it, but I later unlocked it so I could freely bounce between whatever SIM card I felt like. Now, I'm basically stuck at version 1.0.2 - If I dare to update to 1.1.1, my phone will be trashed. Even though my purchase, activation, and subscription was done through legitimate means.
Apple may or may not be able to get away with this in the USA, there are some gray areas. But in Europe? If Apple tries to pull a stunt like this (trashing unlocked iPhones), they will be hit hard by various governments.
At this point, I am ready to go as closely to 100% open source for my computing needs as I possibly can. Unfortunately, I still need Windows for some things, and OSX for others. There is less and less honesty in closed system companies.
it just annoys me that it seems lots of people want the iphone to fail just because. for their first entry apple is not being the most evil bastards that some of you make them out to be.
Can I use it on a service that is not helio though?
I love the phone, but I wish Verizon would carry something like it. They are the only cell carrier to have decent cell service in my area.
danger os is what runs on sidekicks. and since its exclusive to the sidekick line it is tied to the hardware. its actually quite a slick os.
The appeal of the Ocean has much to do with the appeal of the service that it is on.
Also, don't compare it to smartphones, because it isn't one. It is a "Feature Phone"
Sorry, I was a little vague on that one :P
I'm ready to ditch my 700wx any day now. Poor battery life, bluetooth that likes to freeze and reset every few days, not to mention it's just plain ugly. Although if you're bored, it is possible to change out the interface of the 700wx and any windows based smart phone with a mock Iphone interface haha.
Ah, see, the sidekick is a sort of a niche market. Maybe the iPhone is no different from the sidekick, but for the cell phone market in general, which the iPhone has been drawing people from ALL areas of, the iPhone is much more controlled that the market generally allows, and the market may very well push back against it.
How long did it take till the iPhone dropped in price? Did they offer the people who bought one, when it came out, some sort of compensation?
If I was eligable for an upgrade yet, I'd order the Mogul today.
But I don't mind waiting a couple of months if I have to.
some people dont even consider the iphone a smartphone so i dont even know anymore nor does it care in my eyes, its all if the phone suits the individuals needs.
I know I'm late to this, but this is incorrect, at least with the legions of Nokia phones I've owned. I just ran a firmware update on my unlocked Finnish Nokia E61 and aside from a newer version of the software, nothing else about my configuration has changed.
I've never seen a phone (aside from the iPhone, due to contractual crap that everyone else is talking about) lock itself after a firmware update.
or Brawl. 4854.6102.3895 Name: NU..
it was like 66 days which yes i think is bullshit however they offered everyone compensation of a 100 dollar rebate which casued me not to be so bitter. had they released a 16 gig model at the same time as the price cut yes then id be pissed off.