Fact is most adults are playing pay to play MMOs while kids are playing Free to Play MMOs...
Which in some way ruins the fun for Free to Play MMOs...
Where do you get your figures? I am really interested. I have played a few subscription based MMOs and know a lot of kids play them, and I have played a few free to play MMOs and know a lot of adults play them.
So I would love to know where you got your "facts"
I've played many P2P and many F2P MMO's, and I pretty much have to agree with him, mostly. I would say that in my experiences there have been just as many kids as there were older folk in the big retail MMOs, but the free to play ones generally have more younger kids playing. That's not to say there aren't adults who play free games and kids who play p2p games, but I think his generalization is pretty fair.
It's not really that big a claim to make, so I'm unsure why you guys are jumping all over him. Younger kids don't have as easy access to money or credit cards for subscriptions to the big retail games, compared to older folk where $15 a month or using a credit card is really no issue.
Fact is most adults are playing pay to play MMOs while kids are playing Free to Play MMOs...
Which in some way ruins the fun for Free to Play MMOs...
Where do you get your figures? I am really interested. I have played a few subscription based MMOs and know a lot of kids play them, and I have played a few free to play MMOs and know a lot of adults play them.
So I would love to know where you got your "facts"
I've played many P2P and many F2P MMO's, and I pretty much have to agree with him, mostly. I would say that in my experiences there have been just as many kids as there were older folk in the big retail MMOs, but the free to play ones generally have more younger kids playing. That's not to say there aren't adults who play free games and kids who play p2p games, but I think his generalization is pretty fair.
It's not really that big a claim to make, so I'm unsure why you guys are jumping all over him. Younger kids don't have as easy access to money or credit cards for subscriptions to the big retail games, compared to older folk where $15 a month or using a credit card is really no issue.
I would love to see some figures on that.
You can go google age census on mmo...
I am not going to waste my time finding them and listing them for you just to prove myself...
Alright, either you didn't read my reply or you are a complete tool. I've played dozens of free MMO's, and between SWG, L2, WoW, Vanguard, and Guild Wars over the last 6 years those are my observations. I was very specific in stating that it was just a generalization, so there's no reason to be so thickheaded here.
It is funny, his generalization without any data wasn't my main reason for taking issue with him. His statement that teenagers playing an MMO is why free to play MMOs aren't fun was a bit thoughtless, but harmless.
His ending every sentence with an ellipsis on the other hand falls into a whole different category.
Only read the first page, and the last few, so I'm sorry if this was discussed at length already. Saw the boxed Dungeon Runners in the store today and almost picked it up. I'm curious about opinions around here, and if there are a few people that play it with any regularity?
I've tried it. Wasn't too bad, especially as far as free games go.
What I understood of it there wasn't enough free content to keep anyone interested in playing for more than a few days. There was a rather strong focus on giving money to them, anyway.
Also: I have to agree with the notion that free games attract more people who cannot pay a monthly subscription or do not want to do that. This is purely based on my own experience. See third post of OP for a short writ-up.
Only read the first page, and the last few, so I'm sorry if this was discussed at length already. Saw the boxed Dungeon Runners in the store today and almost picked it up. I'm curious about opinions around here, and if there are a few people that play it with any regularity?
I've tried it. Wasn't too bad, especially as far as free games go.
What I understood of it there wasn't enough free content to keep anyone interested in playing for more than a few days. There was a rather strong focus on giving money to them, anyway.
Also: I have to agree with the notion that free games attract more people who cannot pay a monthly subscription or do not want to do that. This is purely based on my own experience. See third post of OP for a short writ-up.
Ah, that probably explains it. I didn't really play it more than a few days, so didn't have the time to run into that.
Hey I just found this thread and I am really enjoying it. Its too bad I hate korean grind mmos so much, but its nice to find a gem occasionally in all the shit. I've been trying out Estiah and I was wondering: is there any way to choose which charm you use at a given time or is it always automatic? Also there's a fileplanet subscriber beta for that Atlantica thing although right now the download is going really slow. I'll let you know more once I play it some if I can get it tonight. I also plan to get started in Perfect World once this Atlantica download finishes.
Hey I just found this thread and I am really enjoying it. Its too bad I hate korean grind mmos so much, but its nice to find a gem occasionally in all the shit. I've been trying out Estiah and I was wondering: is there any way to choose which charm you use at a given time or is it always automatic? Also there's a fileplanet subscriber beta for that Atlantica thing although right now the download is going really slow. I'll let you know more once I play it some if I can get it tonight. I also plan to get started in Perfect World once this Atlantica download finishes.
There's a seperate Estiah topic. Short answer is no, you can't choose what charms you play. Long answer is that it doesn't matter so much, and that is the first question everybody has about the game but realize soon enough that there's boatloads of strategy without it being fully manual.
Really now! I played Rose Online back when it was in open beta, and it was a very impressive game! I may have to check this out, because this just got me all hot and bothered.
It always just looked like RO 3d to me. Any significant changes to that? Like a decent translation, low grind, real quests, interesting class trees, low downtime?
It always just looked like RO 3d to me. Any significant changes to that? Like a decent translation, low grind, real quests, interesting class trees, low downtime?
Maybe you should try "requiem bloodymare" instead...
Lastest F2P MMO by Gravity...
It always just looked like RO 3d to me. Any significant changes to that? Like a decent translation, low grind, real quests, interesting class trees, low downtime?
Maybe you should try "requiem bloodymare" instead...
Lastest F2P MMO by Gravity...
Besides the gore and the better engine it was a rather unoriginal Korean grind MMO
It always just looked like RO 3d to me. Any significant changes to that? Like a decent translation, low grind, real quests, interesting class trees, low downtime?
Maybe you should try "requiem bloodymare" instead...
Lastest F2P MMO by Gravity...
Besides the gore and the better engine it was a rather unoriginal Korean grind MMO
Well, it might just be nostalgia talking, but Rose Online had a pretty solid crafting system, and it was all in all an extremely polished game, even if it was released by Gravity
I've been playing a little DoMo the past couple days. Not much to it, but it's cute and encourages teamwork. People seem to be friendly and there are lots of players. Best of all: no Engrish! That's right, you don't need to decipher every sentence to find out just what the hell you're supposed to do.
Free MMOs are full of the following two types of people:
Those who are too young to pay a monthly subscription
Those who are too cheap to pay for a monthly subscription.
As such, the community in free MMOs is, on average, horrible. This is why I advice you play this sort of games together with friends or people you've played other games with. These games can get boring very fast when you play alone, you need others to have someone fun to talk to and do stuff together with.
While I agree with the rest of your post I have to strongly agree with the part I made bold.
Really? Do you earnestly think the population on paid games is any better? I have never met a bigger congregation of assholes in my life before I played on world of warcraft (Tichondrius). It seemed that the ratio of assholes to actual pleasant people dropped by about the square of the previous amount with each level. I found myself at level 40 being chased and camped by a level 60-70 all the time. I remember in one instance I got camped, got offline had dinner came back and the guy was still there.
I think that the online world in general is a terrible community if only because of the fact that you can be anonymous. I think when they eventually make the internet 2 (yes...a dry joke) that they should get rid of all proxy functions and have people's names strapped to their ip. So when Bill.O.Reilly (64.39.20.21) starts being an asshole on your forums you can go to his house and bunch him in the crotch.
I think the shining moment of online gaming (or at least the two shining moments) were the one where that guy in china killed his friend because his friend sold one of his online items and the woman who had the troll on wow tell her where he lived and she had her husband and some friends go to this guys house and beat the shit out of him.
We need more heroes like them, then the online community of all MMO's would be a little cleaner.
My personal opinion at least.
Also for any games brought out by GameNGame be wary, they like to take the servers down and delete all your stuff then bring up new servers for each country. If the game isn't already separated by nations you are going to lose ANYTHING you do. I promise you.
Free MMOs are full of the following two types of people:
Those who are too young to pay a monthly subscription
Those who are too cheap to pay for a monthly subscription.
As such, the community in free MMOs is, on average, horrible. This is why I advice you play this sort of games together with friends or people you've played other games with. These games can get boring very fast when you play alone, you need others to have someone fun to talk to and do stuff together with.
While I agree with the rest of your post I have to strongly agree with the part I made bold.
Really? Do you earnestly think the population on paid games is any better? I have never met a bigger congregation of assholes in my life before I played on world of warcraft (Tichondrius). It seemed that the ratio of assholes to actual pleasant people dropped by about the square of the previous amount with each level. I found myself at level 40 being chased and camped by a level 60-70 all the time. I remember in one instance I got camped, got offline had dinner came back and the guy was still there.
I think that the online world in general is a terrible community if only because of the fact that you can be anonymous. I think when they eventually make the internet 2 (yes...a dry joke) that they should get rid of all proxy functions and have people's names strapped to their ip. So when Bill.O.Reilly (64.39.20.21) starts being an asshole on your forums you can go to his house and bunch him in the crotch.
I think the shining moment of online gaming (or at least the two shining moments) were the one where that guy in china killed his friend because his friend sold one of his online items and the woman who had the troll on wow tell her where he lived and she had her husband and some friends go to this guys house and beat the shit out of him.
We need more heroes like them, then the online community of all MMO's would be a little cleaner.
My personal opinion at least.
Also for any games brought out by GameNGame be wary, they like to take the servers down and delete all your stuff then bring up new servers for each country. If the game isn't already separated by nations you are going to lose ANYTHING you do. I promise you.
- Rico -
That's why I don't play WoW on a PvP servers...
I didn't pay my monthly fees so some Alliance Kids can grief me to enlarge their epeen...
t theultimateend: you are basing your opinion on P2P MMOs on your experiences on one server in one MMO. I will gladly agree with you that there are a lot of assholes playing WoW, this may or may not be in correlation with the fact that a lot of people play WoW. However, there are other servers and other games out there and for as far as I can tell they have a better community than that what can be found in free MMOs.
Of course this is all based on anecdotal evidence as I haven't experienced all MMOs, but based on my limited data this did not seem far-fetched.
t theultimateend: you are basing your opinion on P2P MMOs on your experiences on one server in one MMO. I will gladly agree with you that there are a lot of assholes playing WoW, this may or may not be in correlation with the fact that a lot of people play WoW. However, there are other servers and other games out there and for as far as I can tell they have a better community than that what can be found in free MMOs.
Of course this is all based on anecdotal evidence as I haven't experienced all MMOs, but based on my limited data this did not seem far-fetched.
I just chose WoW in particular because it has some 8-10 million subscribers. So by definition it should have the most awesome kickass community to ever march across the interweb...yet it does not by any means.
I've played probably 15 or so MMO's to at least the 'mid point' of gameplay in it, 10 or so were FTP and 5 were P2P. I must say overall the reason I have so little leeway for idiots on P2P is...I'm paying to escape reality...why on earth am I being stuck with the same pricks that make driving or working a chore. Just seems counter intuitive .
As for relative griefers to normal players. Play EvE and get up to battlecruiser classes . You'll find yourself swimming into an intergalactic pool of assholes. Otherwise that was an amazing game.
I think that gabriel (I believe it was gabe) put it best. These MMOs should add single player content because they have such massive worlds and infinite libraries of lore from players and developers alike to make the biggest most epic one player (or multiplayer with friend) games ever. Instead of having to deal with a few hundred pricks who apparently work just enough to have an apartment and have wow (or whatever mmo).
Hey, can we please keep the Blizzard bashing out of this thread.
And Tycho did write about how he would like a single player game with the story of the latest EVE-patch. It would be a great space opera.
And still, the WoW servers I've been on had their fair share of assholes, but in the end there was still a community of some sort, people were talking with each other and did things together. That's more than I can say about a lot of the free games I played.
I'm not bashing Blizzard, but if you don't think that B.Net is the biggest collection of fucktards in the entire world, you're terribly wrong. I love Blizzard to death but so do the dumbest, rudest people I've ever encountered. Playing SC as a 13 year old changed me forever.
It's not bad, its not revolutionary either. However I like it a bit more than most mmo's I've played.
If you enjoy pvp expect to be dealing with an unbelievable amount of assholes. This is another game ruined by epenis battling and cookie cutter classes.
Ps. Since you didn't point to who yuo were talking about. I don't hate blizzard. I loved starcraft, I loved warcraft (2 and 1). I however think WoW was and is the single biggest hinderance to the mmo market to date. It has played a staple part in causing money grubbing investors to ruin a large group of good games.
And still, the WoW servers I've been on had their fair share of assholes, but in the end there was still a community of some sort, people were talking with each other and did things together. That's more than I can say about a lot of the free games I played.
Yup, it's the community that counts for an MMO...
Talking with people you know in the Guild and doing things together...
It's not bad, its not revolutionary either. However I like it a bit more than most mmo's I've played.
If you enjoy pvp expect to be dealing with an unbelievable amount of assholes. This is another game ruined by epenis battling and cookie cutter classes.
Ps. Since you didn't point to who yuo were talking about. I don't hate blizzard. I loved starcraft, I loved warcraft (2 and 1). I however think WoW was and is the single biggest hinderance to the mmo market to date. It has played a staple part in causing money grubbing investors to ruin a large group of good games.
I was just browsing though MMOsite.com and I just saw that perfect world is having a closed beta for the US version. This is pretty cool because I played the game on the Malaysia server and it was cool but it had such broken English and the lag was horrible. This version is gonna be completely translated to English and the servers will be hosted here in the US. Check it out if your interested. Registration hasn't started yet though. All the info I could find is listed below.
Last Chaos is one of many games that would be lovely if not for the grind.
So I get a horse, but it's a pony. To get this pony to mount, I need to gain 30 levels on the pony. The pony is level 1, and it will require roughly 500 kills to bring it to level 2. That's about a month just to ride a horse.
I feel like if I'm already dreading the grind at level 6, there may be some flaw in the game's design.
Thanks, I already had Rakion, Holic and Requiem on my list, but I added the following:
Legend of Ares
Free to play
Fantasy MMO with a strong focus on PvP, it looks rather bland and the site offers about zero information besides "hey, it has pvp and you get rewards for clubbing people to death."
Fiesta
Free to Play
Not so sure if this game is such a party. It looks like a standard grinding game, at least it has asdw support and tab-targeting. Graphics score high on the *schoolgirl voice* kawaii *cough* -scale and are kinda smooth.
--
Basically, if anyone knows more about these games, speak up!
Thanks, I already had Rakion, Holic and Requiem on my list, but I added the following:
Legend of Ares
Free to play
Fantasy MMO with a strong focus on PvP, it looks rather bland and the site offers about zero information besides "hey, it has pvp and you get rewards for clubbing people to death."
Fiesta
Free to Play
Not so sure if this game is such a party. It looks like a standard grinding game, at least it has asdw support and tab-targeting. Graphics score high on the *schoolgirl voice* kawaii *cough* -scale and are kinda smooth.
--
Basically, if anyone knows more about these games, speak up!
Can't add much but I tried Fiesta awhile ago, your standard 3D Korean MMO Grindfest. Comparable to DoMo, Pirate King Online, Fly for free, etc. Best I can do to set it apart is it has a Guild vs Guild system. Can't speak for how well implemented it is... but it has it
Most grindy free MMOs sell stuff in cash shops to make the grind go faster. I'm not sure that's necessarily the reason there's grind - including grind seems like a switch fused in position with people sometimes - but it's not incompatible with their business model.
The wierd thing about having grinding in non p2p is that it doesn't even profit them.
I understand why p2p games have grind, that's how they milk you out of all your money since you get charged per month.
It seems rather pointless to me to do it for free games, just a lack of creativity if you ask me.
But you didn't...not that I care...I HAVE FEELINGS TOO!
- Rico -
That's a damn good point. The cash shop thing makes sense as a business model... but it doesn't explain why I've spent so much money making my character look all neat without any stat bonuses in both maplestory and trickster online
Posts
I would love to see some figures on that.
You can go google age census on mmo...
I am not going to waste my time finding them and listing them for you just to prove myself...
Alright, either you didn't read my reply or you are a complete tool. I've played dozens of free MMO's, and between SWG, L2, WoW, Vanguard, and Guild Wars over the last 6 years those are my observations. I was very specific in stating that it was just a generalization, so there's no reason to be so thickheaded here.
His ending every sentence with an ellipsis on the other hand falls into a whole different category.
What I understood of it there wasn't enough free content to keep anyone interested in playing for more than a few days. There was a rather strong focus on giving money to them, anyway.
Also: I have to agree with the notion that free games attract more people who cannot pay a monthly subscription or do not want to do that. This is purely based on my own experience. See third post of OP for a short writ-up.
Ah, that probably explains it. I didn't really play it more than a few days, so didn't have the time to run into that.
There's a seperate Estiah topic. Short answer is no, you can't choose what charms you play. Long answer is that it doesn't matter so much, and that is the first question everybody has about the game but realize soon enough that there's boatloads of strategy without it being fully manual.
http://www.roseonlinegame.com/
It looks pretty awful, but quality is obviously not a prerequisite for inclusion in the Uberlist
Maybe you should try "requiem bloodymare" instead...
Lastest F2P MMO by Gravity...
Besides the gore and the better engine it was a rather unoriginal Korean grind MMO
The quest/grind feels like WoW...
While I agree with the rest of your post I have to strongly agree with the part I made bold.
Really? Do you earnestly think the population on paid games is any better? I have never met a bigger congregation of assholes in my life before I played on world of warcraft (Tichondrius). It seemed that the ratio of assholes to actual pleasant people dropped by about the square of the previous amount with each level. I found myself at level 40 being chased and camped by a level 60-70 all the time. I remember in one instance I got camped, got offline had dinner came back and the guy was still there.
I think that the online world in general is a terrible community if only because of the fact that you can be anonymous. I think when they eventually make the internet 2 (yes...a dry joke) that they should get rid of all proxy functions and have people's names strapped to their ip. So when Bill.O.Reilly (64.39.20.21) starts being an asshole on your forums you can go to his house and bunch him in the crotch.
I think the shining moment of online gaming (or at least the two shining moments) were the one where that guy in china killed his friend because his friend sold one of his online items and the woman who had the troll on wow tell her where he lived and she had her husband and some friends go to this guys house and beat the shit out of him.
We need more heroes like them, then the online community of all MMO's would be a little cleaner.
My personal opinion at least.
Also for any games brought out by GameNGame be wary, they like to take the servers down and delete all your stuff then bring up new servers for each country. If the game isn't already separated by nations you are going to lose ANYTHING you do. I promise you.
- Rico -
http://islesofscion.net - Updated every day!
That's why I don't play WoW on a PvP servers...
I didn't pay my monthly fees so some Alliance Kids can grief me to enlarge their epeen...
I've always found it odd that people pay to get annoyed by some 300 lb basement dwelling 29 year old.
As for the epenis, another unfortunate result of anonymity...holy crap I spelled it right.
- Rico -
http://islesofscion.net - Updated every day!
t theultimateend: you are basing your opinion on P2P MMOs on your experiences on one server in one MMO. I will gladly agree with you that there are a lot of assholes playing WoW, this may or may not be in correlation with the fact that a lot of people play WoW. However, there are other servers and other games out there and for as far as I can tell they have a better community than that what can be found in free MMOs.
Of course this is all based on anecdotal evidence as I haven't experienced all MMOs, but based on my limited data this did not seem far-fetched.
I just chose WoW in particular because it has some 8-10 million subscribers. So by definition it should have the most awesome kickass community to ever march across the interweb...yet it does not by any means.
I've played probably 15 or so MMO's to at least the 'mid point' of gameplay in it, 10 or so were FTP and 5 were P2P. I must say overall the reason I have so little leeway for idiots on P2P is...I'm paying to escape reality...why on earth am I being stuck with the same pricks that make driving or working a chore. Just seems counter intuitive
As for relative griefers to normal players. Play EvE and get up to battlecruiser classes
I think that gabriel (I believe it was gabe) put it best. These MMOs should add single player content because they have such massive worlds and infinite libraries of lore from players and developers alike to make the biggest most epic one player (or multiplayer with friend) games ever. Instead of having to deal with a few hundred pricks who apparently work just enough to have an apartment and have wow (or whatever mmo).
- Rico -
http://islesofscion.net - Updated every day!
Therefore, the more people you have in one place, the dumber that place will become
Plus you're talking about a Blizzard product, and Blizzard's fanbase consists mostly of people twice as stupid as everyone else
Therefore, said place becomes twice as stupid with half the population
So you've got 10 million incredibly stupid people gathered together in a relatively small area, which is equal to 20 million moderately stupid people
20 million moderately stupid people are bound to create a shitty community with shitty people
And Tycho did write about how he would like a single player game with the story of the latest EVE-patch. It would be a great space opera.
And still, the WoW servers I've been on had their fair share of assholes, but in the end there was still a community of some sort, people were talking with each other and did things together. That's more than I can say about a lot of the free games I played.
http://neosteam.gamengame.com/
It's not bad, its not revolutionary either. However I like it a bit more than most mmo's I've played.
If you enjoy pvp expect to be dealing with an unbelievable amount of assholes. This is another game ruined by epenis battling and cookie cutter classes.
Ps. Since you didn't point to who yuo were talking about. I don't hate blizzard. I loved starcraft, I loved warcraft (2 and 1). I however think WoW was and is the single biggest hinderance to the mmo market to date. It has played a staple part in causing money grubbing investors to ruin a large group of good games.
http://islesofscion.net - Updated every day!
Yup, it's the community that counts for an MMO...
Talking with people you know in the Guild and doing things together...
http://contest.mmosite.com/giveaway/perfect_world/
So I get a horse, but it's a pony. To get this pony to mount, I need to gain 30 levels on the pony. The pony is level 1, and it will require roughly 500 kills to bring it to level 2. That's about a month just to ride a horse.
I feel like if I'm already dreading the grind at level 6, there may be some flaw in the game's design.
http://rakion.softnyx.net/
http://legendofares.netgame.com/
http://fiesta.outspark.com/
http://holic.netgame.com/
http://www.playrequiem.com/
Legend of Ares
Free to play
Fantasy MMO with a strong focus on PvP, it looks rather bland and the site offers about zero information besides "hey, it has pvp and you get rewards for clubbing people to death."
Fiesta
Free to Play
Not so sure if this game is such a party. It looks like a standard grinding game, at least it has asdw support and tab-targeting. Graphics score high on the *schoolgirl voice* kawaii *cough* -scale and are kinda smooth.
--
Basically, if anyone knows more about these games, speak up!
Can't add much but I tried Fiesta awhile ago, your standard 3D Korean MMO Grindfest. Comparable to DoMo, Pirate King Online, Fly for free, etc. Best I can do to set it apart is it has a Guild vs Guild system. Can't speak for how well implemented it is... but it has it
I understand why p2p games have grind, that's how they milk you out of all your money since you get charged per month.
It seems rather pointless to me to do it for free games, just a lack of creativity if you ask me.
But you didn't...not that I care...I HAVE FEELINGS TOO!
- Rico -
http://islesofscion.net - Updated every day!
That's a damn good point. The cash shop thing makes sense as a business model... but it doesn't explain why I've spent so much money making my character look all neat without any stat bonuses in both maplestory and trickster online
...Overall I think it means I'm an idiot