Well, I'm sorry to say this, but rumour has it the Chaplains are being hit pretty hard with the nerf bat in 5th ed, with their WS being reduced to 4 and their W to 2.
Where'd you hear this?
Last time I ventured into Warseer the marine players were getting their panties in a twist. I think it was in the rumors thread for the new marine Codex. Apparently the 5th ed rulebook has profile in the back of it, and Chaplains have been reduced to WS 4 and 2 wounds. Apparently Librarians are also limited to 2 wounds, but retain WS 5.
I played a 5th ed game over the weekend, and I don't remember seeing any unit profiles. I wasn't looking for them though, so I might've missed them, since I only read the rules in depth, but I did flip through the whole book.
Well, I'm sorry to say this, but rumour has it the Chaplains are being hit pretty hard with the nerf bat in 5th ed, with their WS being reduced to 4 and their W to 2.
Where'd you hear this?
Last time I ventured into Warseer the marine players were getting their panties in a twist. I think it was in the rumors thread for the new marine Codex. Apparently the 5th ed rulebook has profile in the back of it, and Chaplains have been reduced to WS 4 and 2 wounds. Apparently Librarians are also limited to 2 wounds, but retain WS 5.
I played a 5th ed game over the weekend, and I don't remember seeing any unit profiles. I wasn't looking for them though, so I might've missed them, since I only read the rules in depth, but I did flip through the whole book.
I've heard this about the Chaplains as well, it seems reasonable to me, as I'm not sure why the chaplains would be higher WS anyway... they spend all day praying and whatnot, not a lot of time to train. Plus game wise, they still get the reroll, so they don't really need WS5, especially if more combats are going to be over in the first round now.
It's not a nerf, it's a misprint. Notice how they don't have anything in there, like the stats for new stuff coming out? That's because they were only doing the units in the current codex, not the new one, and someone mis-typed something (or doesn't know how to copy -> paste).
So, lets say with the same unit I score 5 penetrating hits. I don't want it to be annihilated, because I have precious precious troops next to it! So I roll the dice... 1? Dang! 1 again, oh god, nothing! 4? Sweet! Vehicle down.
(secretly rolls the other two) (6... 6). *Shifty eyes*
In such a situation do I have to take the annihilated result, or can I just roll until i destroy the vehicle, no harm no foul? Also, if I WANTED to annihilate it, could I keep rolling my penetrating hits until I got a 6, or would I have to stop once it was destroyed?
I think you need to roll them all since all hits are processed simultaneously.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited June 2008
You have to roll for each shot, so no sneaking out of the extra damage. In what order you apply it is up to you, but you're going to have to eat those annihilated results.
Ah, thanks for the info. We played it out the other way last night, as a result of a successful rock-paper-scissoring of mine, but the battle was going my way pretty definitively by that point anyway.
It's nice fighting Eldar with Demonhunters, because they don't get to armor save, like, ever. At all. Because even when they have invulnerable saves so I cant AP them, my psycannons disallow THOSE saves too.
Also, I've traditionally deep strike'd a unit of 5 Grey Knight Terminators (equipped with thunder hammer+storm shield), though with a slew of recent horrible reserve rolls I'm thinking of having them in a chimera in the beginning of a battle.
What do you guys think? I'm going to test it next time I play, but I like to hear from you guys. You all seem to have pretty well thought out opinions, most of the time
I think that you're going to have a hard time getting Terminators in a Chimera.
The only transport Terminators can take is a Land Raider.
Also, in 5th ed, Deep Striking is a little less dangerous.
Really? I thought the chimera could take up to 5, but I could be mistaken.
Also, will deep striking in 5e be any more reliable? Like, will they come in more often? I've never killed them on a deep strike roll (yet...) however, they've never come in before turn 4 either.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited June 2008
Yeah, wouldn't mind someone explaining the deep strike rules in more detail than that there now seems to be a mishap chart.
2. Anyone readin the 5th edition rules yet? I'm reading them now. Not too much is different other than how line of sight works so far. Also the running rule. My question is, if I have fleet of foot on a model, can they use FoF AND run in the same shooting phase?
2. Fleet is running. Or rather, the Fleet of [extremity] Universal Special Rule now reads: "Models which ran in the shooting phase may assault in the assault phase" or words to that effect. Ordinarily, runners can't assault, leaving them horribly, horribly vulnerable if you do it too close to the enemy.
WHOA WHAT
So that means that the hormagaunts I pay ten points for now have an ability that every single unit in the game has?
EDIT: I realize that they can assault after running while most units can't but still, seems like a nerf to me. No?
Yeah, wouldn't mind someone explaining the deep strike rules in more detail than that there now seems to be a mishap chart.
If you screw up the deep strike (land in impassable terrain, on enemy models etc.) instead of just dying like you would in 4e, you roll on the "oops, i pushed it again, sir" table which is nearly identical to the standard misfire chart for Warhammer war machines, ie 1-2=doom 2-3=oops 5-6=try again next time. More specifically, 1-2=doom, 3-4=the opponent gets to re-place and scatter the first model anywhere they like and you deploy from there and 5-6=they go back into reserve and start rolling to turn up next turn as though they were beginning again (so 4+ then 3+ etc.).
Also, Adeptus Mechanicus armies are easy: Imperial Guard with the Sharpshooters, bionics, enginseers, specialists and genadiers doctrines, with an inquisitorial delegation of priests, arco-flagellants, an Inquisitor Lord and some SoB.
Then you model all of the above in suitably mechanicus-y robes and metal bits; the guard are tech-guard naturally, the priests and arco-flagellants are handlers and electro-priests, the Inquisitor and retinue is the Magos of the expedition and the Sisters represent battle-robots armed with experimental technology (faith points).
As you can see I've got 30 points left. Any suggestions on what wargear card I should take? I could also add a Veteran Sergeant to the Tactical Squad and tool him up a bit.
As you can see I've got 30 points left. Any suggestions on what wargear card I should take? I could also add a Veteran Sergeant to the Tactical Squad and tool him up a bit.
Uh. Is... Is that second edition?
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
As you can see I've got 30 points left. Any suggestions on what wargear card I should take? I could also add a Veteran Sergeant to the Tactical Squad and tool him up a bit.
As you can see I've got 30 points left. Any suggestions on what wargear card I should take? I could also add a Veteran Sergeant to the Tactical Squad and tool him up a bit.
Uh. Is... Is that second edition?
That would be second edition. We're three editions ahead of ya.
Totally. For some reason I've had a hankering to play some 2nd ed, but with some logical restrictions to remove much of the brokenness. i.e. Characters limited to 25%, not uber wolfguard etc. Just reading through the old wargear book, these things were dangerous. Lightning Claws: S8, d3 wounds, -5 save modifier, 8 + D3 +D20 + D6 Armour penetration. Shuriken catapult: 24" range, S4, -2 save modifer, 1 Sustained fire die. Assault Cannon: S8, d6 wounds, 3 Sustained fire dice, -3 save modifier. Terminators really needed that 3+ save on 2D6.
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
2. Anyone readin the 5th edition rules yet? I'm reading them now. Not too much is different other than how line of sight works so far. Also the running rule. My question is, if I have fleet of foot on a model, can they use FoF AND run in the same shooting phase?
2. Fleet is running. Or rather, the Fleet of [extremity] Universal Special Rule now reads: "Models which ran in the shooting phase may assault in the assault phase" or words to that effect. Ordinarily, runners can't assault, leaving them horribly, horribly vulnerable if you do it too close to the enemy.
WHOA WHAT
So that means that the hormagaunts I pay ten points for now have an ability that every single unit in the game has?
EDIT: I realize that they can assault after running while most units can't but still, seems like a nerf to me. No?
Consider that Fleet is mostly used to get units into positions where they can assault that turn, while running is meant to be used for getting non-fleet units into a position they can be useful the following turn.
So I'm thinking about starting up a thread to do development on an Adeptus Mechanicus list. Would anyone be interested in pitching in?
Hey, I'll get in on this. Are you looking at working with an existing codex?
I have in a Word document an Adeptus Mechanicus codex written by a guy named Tim Huckelbery in January 2005 (I believe). According to the document, Tim worked at Games Workshop as "Fabricator General". I think I got it from a link that was on Warseer or Dakka sometime last year.. I can no longer find the link. I also have a PDF of AM banners that look pretty cool.. with a GW Copyright dated 2004. Give me your email address and I can send these to you (or anybody who wants them).
Tim worked at Games Workshop as "Fabricator General".
Haha man, I would not be able to take my job seriously if they gave me some goofy, pseudo military title like that.
Anyways, my question is, are daemon armies still viable? My khorne army was 1/2 berzerkers, 1/2 summoned bloodletters, but now that they've been somewhat changed, is it viable to try doing both?
I mean I like them, but the bloodletters are actually beastmen I use as proxy, because at the time the actual bloodletter models looked like ass (and honestly I don't really care for the new models either, though they're an improvement). But even if I were to keep them as-is, the entire chaos book is heavily close ranged units. Couple that with my love of close combat (and thus khorne), and I just see my entire army getting shot to pieces before even getting into close combat with anything at all.
Really I'm thinking of just selling off my beastmen to a fantasy player, or just going to both games and playing small warbands of 40k berserkers, and rebasing the 'bloodletters' for fantasy beastmen. I currently can't afford the bloodcrushers which seem necessary for a daemon army, and I would need to add raptors and some tanks to make my khorne army work on large scale fights again.
Recently I had a game against an all berserker army. 1500pts with 2 dreads, a lord and the rest just dudes. Enough 3+ saves, plus the new running thing means that there were plently left to get into close combat.
Of course I was playing orks so my shooting may not have been the best measurement of that statement.
So I'm thinking about starting up a thread to do development on an Adeptus Mechanicus list. Would anyone be interested in pitching in?
Hey, I'll get in on this. Are you looking at working with an existing codex?
I have in a Word document an Adeptus Mechanicus codex written by a guy named Tim Huckelbery in January 2005 (I believe). According to the document, Tim worked at Games Workshop as "Fabricator General". I think I got it from a link that was on Warseer or Dakka sometime last year.. I can no longer find the link. I also have a PDF of AM banners that look pretty cool.. with a GW Copyright dated 2004. Give me your email address and I can send these to you (or anybody who wants them).
Scribe here sent the files to me, and I've uploaded it to my site for those interested.
For the mods - The first page of the codex says the following:
Permission is given for people to post this up on websites, or email it around, or make copies for others. Spread it around! Only restrictions are please don’t change anything, keep the email address below correct,and keep my name on it.
Sharp, just so you know, the links don't work at least for me. I was able to see them in my Adobe when I go www.shiftedmatrix.com/downloads and choose a link of one of the PDF's there.
Yeah, I can't afford more models, but I could give that a try. The other part was now that it's not really worth summoning daemons, is the daemon army worth expanding? Every single khorne daemon unit is close combat, and if I went up against say an IG army, I have a feeling that the few models which can't be insta-killed, won't be much help after the rest of the army is picked apart.
If you're using beastmen as proxy for demons, could you use them as chosen or regular marines or something?
Might expand your options without needing more dudes.
Yeah, I can't afford more models, but I could give that a try. The other part was now that it's not really worth summoning daemons, is the daemon army worth expanding? Every single khorne daemon unit is close combat, and if I went up against say an IG army, I have a feeling that the few models which can't be insta-killed, won't be much help after the rest of the army is picked apart.
Plus blood crushers are murder on the wallet.
Are you talking about the Demons in the Chaos Marine army?
If so:
Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with them at all. They can assault when they come in and will routinely win combat against anything that isn't a CC specialist (especially on the charge), and if they do lose, they're fearless, so although some might die to losing combat, they aren't running away. Also, they can be excellent for sitting on objectives, considering there's no limit to how many units you can have...
In regards to a regular demon army, if you go all khorne you can do well, as long as you're smart about your list. If you need some ranged power your only real option as all-Khorne is Soul Grinders (which are awesome). 'Thirsters and Princes can have a little 12" shooting attack, but it's nothing special unless you're hitting terminators or something with it.
I just bought the ork codex, since very soon I will be finished collecting a 1500 point Demonhunters army, and Orks sound like a good second!
...i loves them ^_^
I'm still wondering about preliminary stuff. I know I don't have the toughness/armor and such of my demonhunters, but thats why there's so many of these guys, yeah?
I'm thinking...
Mad Dok Grotsnik
x10 Lootas
x4 Deff koptas
x8 Warbikes
Deff Dread
2 mobs of 20 sluggas
2 mobs of 20 shootas
1 mob of 12 sluggas in a trukk with various gear
total count of 92 boyz, 11 other infantry, 14 vehicle/other
That should be around 1200-1300 points, which means I still have a bit more stuff to work with.
I just bought the ork codex, since very soon I will be finished collecting a 1500 point Demonhunters army, and Orks sound like a good second!
...i loves them ^_^
I'm still wondering about preliminary stuff. I know I don't have the toughness/armor and such of my demonhunters, but thats why there's so many of these guys, yeah?
I'm thinking...
Mad Dok Grotsnik
x10 Lootas
x4 Deff koptas
x8 Warbikes
Deff Dread
2 mobs of 20 sluggas
2 mobs of 20 shootas
1 mob of 12 sluggas in a trukk with various gear
total count of 92 boyz, 11 other infantry, 14 vehicle/other
That should be around 1200-1300 points, which means I still have a bit more stuff to work with.
Am I even on the right track, friends?
List looks good, though I prefer Killa Kans to Deff Dreads, but... I haven't actually used a Deff Dread, either. But either way, Dreads are getting better in 5th, so stick with it. For the remaining points... well, honestly, I would put in another trukk mob because one trukk by itself won't accomplish much, even with bikes and koptas to back it up. I also am not a big fan of Grotsnik because he can be led around by the nose, though giving feel no pain to a unit can be very helpful. Other than that though, try to stick a big mek with a kustom force field in there any way you can to protect your dread/boys mobs. Seriously, that thing is a God-send.
Also in 5th it will be significantly more difficult to outrun infantry, right?
Another trukk, I was thinking of that sort of thing too. And As for the killa kans, well, I haven't actually played as orks yet, but on first glance I liked the deff dread a bit more, but I think I'll experiment with that a bit! (I have a serious fascination for dreadnoughts, so I'm way biased there)
How much is a big mek with a kustom force field? And is he an HQ? (at work, codex not handy)
Also in 5th it will be significantly more difficult to outrun infantry, right?
Another trukk, I was thinking of that sort of thing too. And As for the killa kans, well, I haven't actually played as orks yet, but on first glance I liked the deff dread a bit more, but I think I'll experiment with that a bit! (I have a serious fascination for dreadnoughts, so I'm way biased there)
How much is a big mek with a kustom force field? And is he an HQ? (at work, codex not handy)
With no other upgrades, 85 points for a Mek with KFF. And yes, HQ.
Ok, so going back to Demonhunters and the transport of Terminators...
Under the Rhino transport, it says it may carry ten models, but may not carry models wearing terminator armor.
Under the Chimera transport, it says it may carry twelve models.
We're sure that the chimera cannot transport terminators? I'd think it would state specifically so if it could not, but the codex is out of date, so I realize that there could be an error of omission there.
Posts
I've heard this about the Chaplains as well, it seems reasonable to me, as I'm not sure why the chaplains would be higher WS anyway... they spend all day praying and whatnot, not a lot of time to train. Plus game wise, they still get the reroll, so they don't really need WS5, especially if more combats are going to be over in the first round now.
SoogaGames Blog
(secretly rolls the other two) (6... 6). *Shifty eyes*
In such a situation do I have to take the annihilated result, or can I just roll until i destroy the vehicle, no harm no foul? Also, if I WANTED to annihilate it, could I keep rolling my penetrating hits until I got a 6, or would I have to stop once it was destroyed?
It's nice fighting Eldar with Demonhunters, because they don't get to armor save, like, ever. At all. Because even when they have invulnerable saves so I cant AP them, my psycannons disallow THOSE saves too.
Hey, I'll get in on this. Are you looking at working with an existing codex?
What do you guys think? I'm going to test it next time I play, but I like to hear from you guys. You all seem to have pretty well thought out opinions, most of the time
The only transport Terminators can take is a Land Raider.
Also, in 5th ed, Deep Striking is a little less dangerous.
Really? I thought the chimera could take up to 5, but I could be mistaken.
Also, will deep striking in 5e be any more reliable? Like, will they come in more often? I've never killed them on a deep strike roll (yet...) however, they've never come in before turn 4 either.
WHOA WHAT
So that means that the hormagaunts I pay ten points for now have an ability that every single unit in the game has?
EDIT: I realize that they can assault after running while most units can't but still, seems like a nerf to me. No?
I made a TD for iphone and windows phone!
Also, Adeptus Mechanicus armies are easy: Imperial Guard with the Sharpshooters, bionics, enginseers, specialists and genadiers doctrines, with an inquisitorial delegation of priests, arco-flagellants, an Inquisitor Lord and some SoB.
Then you model all of the above in suitably mechanicus-y robes and metal bits; the guard are tech-guard naturally, the priests and arco-flagellants are handlers and electro-priests, the Inquisitor and retinue is the Magos of the expedition and the Sisters represent battle-robots armed with experimental technology (faith points).
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
As you can see I've got 30 points left. Any suggestions on what wargear card I should take? I could also add a Veteran Sergeant to the Tactical Squad and tool him up a bit.
Uh. Is... Is that second edition?
That would be second edition. We're three editions ahead of ya.
I have in a Word document an Adeptus Mechanicus codex written by a guy named Tim Huckelbery in January 2005 (I believe). According to the document, Tim worked at Games Workshop as "Fabricator General". I think I got it from a link that was on Warseer or Dakka sometime last year.. I can no longer find the link. I also have a PDF of AM banners that look pretty cool.. with a GW Copyright dated 2004. Give me your email address and I can send these to you (or anybody who wants them).
Haha man, I would not be able to take my job seriously if they gave me some goofy, pseudo military title like that.
Anyways, my question is, are daemon armies still viable? My khorne army was 1/2 berzerkers, 1/2 summoned bloodletters, but now that they've been somewhat changed, is it viable to try doing both?
I mean I like them, but the bloodletters are actually beastmen I use as proxy, because at the time the actual bloodletter models looked like ass (and honestly I don't really care for the new models either, though they're an improvement). But even if I were to keep them as-is, the entire chaos book is heavily close ranged units. Couple that with my love of close combat (and thus khorne), and I just see my entire army getting shot to pieces before even getting into close combat with anything at all.
Really I'm thinking of just selling off my beastmen to a fantasy player, or just going to both games and playing small warbands of 40k berserkers, and rebasing the 'bloodletters' for fantasy beastmen. I currently can't afford the bloodcrushers which seem necessary for a daemon army, and I would need to add raptors and some tanks to make my khorne army work on large scale fights again.
Of course I was playing orks so my shooting may not have been the best measurement of that statement.
Scribe here sent the files to me, and I've uploaded it to my site for those interested.
Codex
Banners
For the mods - The first page of the codex says the following:
-edit-
Fixed. I renamed it, but it reverted on the web server for some reason. It's all good now.
Then again it is a late 3rd/early 4th Edition codex, complete with a huge grab-bag armory.
Plus blood crushers are murder on the wallet.
Might expand your options without needing more dudes.
Are you talking about the Demons in the Chaos Marine army?
If so:
Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with them at all. They can assault when they come in and will routinely win combat against anything that isn't a CC specialist (especially on the charge), and if they do lose, they're fearless, so although some might die to losing combat, they aren't running away. Also, they can be excellent for sitting on objectives, considering there's no limit to how many units you can have...
In regards to a regular demon army, if you go all khorne you can do well, as long as you're smart about your list. If you need some ranged power your only real option as all-Khorne is Soul Grinders (which are awesome). 'Thirsters and Princes can have a little 12" shooting attack, but it's nothing special unless you're hitting terminators or something with it.
...i loves them ^_^
I'm still wondering about preliminary stuff. I know I don't have the toughness/armor and such of my demonhunters, but thats why there's so many of these guys, yeah?
I'm thinking...
x10 Lootas
x4 Deff koptas
x8 Warbikes
Deff Dread
2 mobs of 20 sluggas
2 mobs of 20 shootas
1 mob of 12 sluggas in a trukk with various gear
total count of 92 boyz, 11 other infantry, 14 vehicle/other
That should be around 1200-1300 points, which means I still have a bit more stuff to work with.
Am I even on the right track, friends?
List looks good, though I prefer Killa Kans to Deff Dreads, but... I haven't actually used a Deff Dread, either. But either way, Dreads are getting better in 5th, so stick with it. For the remaining points... well, honestly, I would put in another trukk mob because one trukk by itself won't accomplish much, even with bikes and koptas to back it up. I also am not a big fan of Grotsnik because he can be led around by the nose, though giving feel no pain to a unit can be very helpful. Other than that though, try to stick a big mek with a kustom force field in there any way you can to protect your dread/boys mobs. Seriously, that thing is a God-send.
Another trukk, I was thinking of that sort of thing too. And As for the killa kans, well, I haven't actually played as orks yet, but on first glance I liked the deff dread a bit more, but I think I'll experiment with that a bit! (I have a serious fascination for dreadnoughts, so I'm way biased there)
How much is a big mek with a kustom force field? And is he an HQ? (at work, codex not handy)
With no other upgrades, 85 points for a Mek with KFF. And yes, HQ.
Under the Rhino transport, it says it may carry ten models, but may not carry models wearing terminator armor.
Under the Chimera transport, it says it may carry twelve models.
We're sure that the chimera cannot transport terminators? I'd think it would state specifically so if it could not, but the codex is out of date, so I realize that there could be an error of omission there.
[EDIT] I know, i know... I just want it so bad!