This argument is a bit out there, don't you think? I don't think it's unreasonable to agree that the game is priced in the higher end of the downloadable game spectrum and leave it at that.
Because, yeah, it's unreasonable to argue about minimum wages, but defending the game is absolutely worth 20$ just because somebody's paid 20$ is being in denial.
Let me put it this way: 20$ is fine for it in my book, but I wouldn't pay 21.
Personally I still think 20 bucks is dirt cheap for what's essentially an extension of the free content we've been getting for ten years
This. I initially balked at the $20 price (yes, being a Sam n Max vet as well). But then I thought to myself I would really like to see this game succeed, if nothing just based on how much I've read and laughed at PA over the last few years. The funny part is I don't think $20 seems outrageous for any given episode, but I probably will look back a bit in regret at paying $80 for four episodes (and so on). I do the same thing with comic books ($4 wasn't so bad, was it worth $28 no own this 7-issue mini? prolly not). In that sense, even though a $5 difference seems negligible, you multiply it out among several eps and suddenly the standard $60 ($15 per) for a 30 hour RPG seems appropriate.
Okay, all that said I had a blast with the game and it was worth the money. BUT, I certainly hope future eps aren't SHORTER for the same price.
Phawx, you are long winded and pedantic, and i do not especially like you. you keep referencing that they will 'do the right thing', which is so unbelievably passive aggressive it sets my hair on edge; you say you are 'not important' and then go on to assume that what you advise them to do is the right choice.
edit: feel free to try and assert that this was not what you meant to do/say if you wish to phawx, but it is exactly how you appear
back on topic:
if the episodes after this one have the same quality of writing and the same length, i have no problem buying each for twenty dollars, this is a great game, highly enjoyable, and i do not feel that releasing a second episode of this same caliber at the same price would be a ripoff.
Belruel,
I do advise them what I believe to be right, but I clearly said in my previous post that I can be completely wrong. I really fucking hate repeating myself, it's surely not getting the point across. Especially with myopic, pretentious and elitist folks such as yourself. Is the air so thin way up there on your throne that its affecting your brain? Have you ever thought about taking a step down and breath in some perspective?
Look at all the comments. Take a step back and try to think where they are coming from.
i wasn't even commenting upon the fact that you think it should cost less; i was responding to you insinuating that you knew what the 'right thing' for them to do is. how does this make me elitist and pretentious? if anything you are the pretentious one here, waltzing in pretending to know exactly what they should so and saying it is the 'right thing'.
and we're posting on a forum, i am not following a bunch of links to go read comments from people i don't care about. i am sure plenty of people don't like the price or the game, good for them, they may continue to do so, and if they come and post here i might respond.
and you didn't only 'advise them to do what you believe is right' you said something along the lines of 'i believe they will do what is right' which is exactly the sort of thing a condescending parent says to their child when they are really only trying to tell the kid to choose the choice they want him or her to make.
now you can put down your thesaurus and go reread your posts and take a look at your tone (scrape past that fake smile you tried to smear over it) and i would advise you to apologize to the game creators; not for your criticism, because there is nothing wrong with criticism, but for your pretentious approach and condescending attitude.
but of course you won't do that, you'll probably respond to this post with indignation and not even take a second to really read what is in it, like last time.
Honestly, I hope that it cost PA 35 cents to produce this game and they're making $19.65 in profit. I want a world where I get to choose who I support and make into millionaires instead of being force fed celebrity garbage on television.
For that very reason I buy shirts from PA, I click their banner ads every now and again, and I buy prints of the comics that resonate with me.
Honestly, this release could have cost 10 bucks and this thread would have still existed because some people will bitch, piss, and moan at whatever they can to earn themselves some whuffie...
If any of my posts come across to you as condescending, honestly they shouldn't, I apologize. Sadly, inflection does not carry over to text.
I just finished the game. I have to say I really like the narrator. Also, I am a HUGE fan of the battle system. Just got the 'silent but deadly' cheevo and it was a nice 'cherry on top' to end the game.
Bel,
Might I suggest you reread my posts? I do make mention that I can, indeed, be wrong. Right now, its all in the air. Numbers will speak for themselves. I happen to believe their is a magic number. But what do I know? I haven't accomplished ANYTHING on the scale that PA has reached.
And yes, you are elitist. You have a smug attitude. Talk down to me all you wish.
lol, the $20 was a lot for me, my mom won't let me get a job, and I don't get an allowence XD
I'm tired of not haveing an income >:c
Well, no one is entitled to the game. Question though...If your mom won't let you get a job and you don't get an allowence...how did you buy this game?
I think the second episode is MUCH better. More/better cut scenes, some awesome new characters,more puzzles,some really amazing boss fights, really cool new zones. We learned a ton with Episode 1. They will only get better from here.
Sounds pretty good. I personally don't really want the game to be much longer than 10 hrs. That is the whole point of the episodic format. I just don't have the countless hours to spend gaming anymore and would much rather have a shorter game that is great than a long game that has a bunch of extra stuff crammed into it just to make it longer.
If anything you guys should head over to the EA forums and start bitching about them charging $60 for a new version of Madden every August when all it is essentially a roster update and a couple of gimmicky features added.
I don't see how anyone can complain about $20 for 6-8 hours of solid game, considering games like Max Payne 2 and other "AAA" titles cost $50-$60, yet had similar playtimes. You could even power through Mass Effect in 8 hours if you skipped the side quests.
Fatty McBeardo on
0
KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
I don't see how anyone can complain about $20 for 6-8 hours of solid game, considering games like Max Payne 2 and other "AAA" titles cost $50-$60, yet had similar playtimes. You could even power through Mass Effect in 8 hours if you skipped the side quests.
Well yeah if you skipped 60% of the content then yes you could beat Mass Effect in 8 hours.
That's totally the same thing as a complete game being 6-8 hours. And some people DON'T pay full price for games like that, they wait until they are lower in price.
Anyway it sounds like Episode 2 will have a lot of improvements over Ep1 so I don't think I'll mind chipping in another twenty for it.
I mean, that's basically a lapdance, but RSPD doesn't come with herpes or the shame.
I think the fact that this is the first game to hit the 1600 point barrier on Xbox Live is a big reason why there is so much complaining about it's cost. I wonder how many people who are complaining have plunked down $10 for re-releases of old games on XBLA or on the Wii Vitual Console? If a 20 year old NES game that takes 45 mins to beat costs $5 to download, proportionally this brand new PA game that is 8 - 10 hrs should cost way more than $20. Like Gabe said; If you don't think it is worth $20, don't buy it.
Let's say this. How many people purchased at $20 vs. how many would have purchased priced lower?
If they started it at $15 that means they would have to sell 25% more as opposed to $20. It's obviously too late now. I just hope that PA and Hothead make their money back AT THE LEAST.
I would hate for an independent game company feel that its not worth being in the small end games business. Mike and Jerry have already stated that if they knew how much would be involved before they started this project, they would not have done it.
Now imagine if they have low numbers, we might not see another PA series. Which would suck.
If anything you guys should head over to the EA forums and start bitching about them charging $60 for a new version of Madden every August when all it is essentially a roster update and a couple of gimmicky features added.
All of the EA sports games that release on a yearly basis are a big rip-off. But on the other hand, games like that have great replay value and great multiplayer value, so aside from the fact that every year they sell the same game, I do think those games offer a lot of value.
I don't see how anyone can complain about $20 for 6-8 hours of solid game, considering games like Max Payne 2 and other "AAA" titles cost $50-$60, yet had similar playtimes.
I think Max Payne (both installments, really) received a lot of complaints about the play time as well, so complaining about PA is not completely unfair. For PA the same applies as for Max Payne: short play time can be excusable as long as you ensure the quality of play time that you do get is high enough. So far, they have been doing a good job, in my opinion, but I feel they could do a little better.
If anything you guys should head over to the EA forums and start bitching about them charging $60 for a new version of Madden every August when all it is essentially a roster update and a couple of gimmicky features added.
All of the EA sports games that release on a yearly basis are a big rip-off. But on the other hand, games like that have great replay value and great multiplayer value, so aside from the fact that every year they sell the same game, I do think those games offer a lot of value.
I do agree that the EA sports games are a ripoff but there are still millions of people that buy Madden every single year. Those loyal Madden buyers obviously feel that it is well worth the $60 every year. This is why this price argument can't be won by anyone. The value of something is only what someone is willing to pay for it. Some people would gladly pay $50 for this game, so they feel that $20 is a great deal. Others would only pay $10 or $5, so they feel that $20 is outrageous.
Personally, I think it is a pretty good price. It might be a tad on the high end but I haven't really played more than an hour of it so I couldn't say one way or the other if it is worth it. Bottom line for me is that I enjoy PA and like what they do so I decided to support them by purchasing the game without even trying the demo. They've given me hundreds of comics I've enjoyed for free over the years, the least I can do is spend $20 on their foray into game making.
First of all the game is easily, easily worth $20. Anyone who could play through those 6-8ish hours of hillarious, awesome gameplay. Gameplay that improved, defied and polished conventions. Then go "Well it was good, but it wasn't $20 good" is an absolutely unpleasable miscreant. Simple as that.
Perhaps this is somewhat due to the fact I don't really understand the American dollar as much since I don't live in America. It cost me about $30-40 (Retail games are about $100-120) and I'd have happily paid $50. This is from someone who's a Student, living off the Student Loan and has an income of $150 a week. $20 is an incredibly cheap amount to pay for the amount of work that's CLEARLY gone into this game.
That said even if you don't feel that way you should still want to pay it. Why? Because you're supporting three fantastic endevours!
1- Episodic Gaming/Online Purchases. Supporting episodic gaming is supporting the rights to buy games that aren't influenced by Wallmart or as many silly censor/forced trope morons. It's a great, great system that rewards the user as much as the producer. Instead of paying full price for a whole game, just pay a bit now and if you decide you don't like it leave it at that. It's a great system and fully worth our support.
2- Smaller time developers. This goes right in hand with supporting Episodic Gaming, supporting groups like HotHead developers is giving money to people that aren't EA, nor Microsoft (Nor even Ubisoft, Nintendo or Blizzard). It's saying you don't ONLY need to be a huge production house to make games anymore. Think about it, do you really want *all* your games to be made from giant, billion dollar companies? I for one would prefer a market that's open enough to give game programmers enough variety of emploment they don't only have to work at EA...
3- Penny Arcade/Mike and Jerry. This one is beyond obvious, would you rather give your money to some faceless corporation aiming at creating games targetted towards entire demographics and age groups (eg See the evolution from Sands of Time to Warrior Within and tell me that wasn't a cashflow orientated decision) or would you rather give your money to something made by people you've liked/been fans of since time began? You've seen their comic strips for how long? You've played with em in WoW? Listened to their podcasts?
Yet you niggle over a measly $5 when they make a game targeted at you (Penny Arcade fans)? How pathetic.
There's no $20 problem. That's the price of the game. That's how much the game cost to purchase. This is like saying that anything in any store that costs $money has a $money problem.
Also, for all the criticism there is on these links that have been posted a bunch of posts earlier, very few would have bought the game anyway. Look at the Major Nelson link. Most of those who complain (and those who complain the most vocally), don't even have a gamertag.
I think that what a lot of people think, but haven't really said, is that the problem isn't a single fee of $20 - it's $20 paid on a regular basis, over a decent period of time. I don't mind paying $20 once for a good, self contained game - but the fact that it's episodic somewhat implies that that's not all you're going to pay.
It's not just a single fee, it needs to be a sustainable fee - like for an mmo.
SageinaRage on
0
Grudgeblessed is the mind too small for doubtRegistered Userregular
edited May 2008
Lots of petty whining in this thread.
I've finished it and although it wasn't OMG BEST GAEM EVAR!!!11 it was well worth $20.
The argument that "I have paid for the engine now, next time I just want to pay for the content" is particularily stupid IMO. That's usually not the way it works. When they drew up the budget for this game I'm pretty sure they calculated that the cost of creating the game engine was to be split and recuperated from the price of all four episodes.
Episode 1 cost over a million dollars, episode two is around half of that. Anyone who uses that to try and argue that episode two should cost ten dollars needs to be shot. Source for the numbers is the Forbes article on episodic gaming from April.
Episode 1 cost over a million dollars, episode two is around half of that. Anyone who uses that to try and argue that episode two should cost ten dollars needs to be shot.
The only thing I could think when I read that was:
"So is it a million, or a billion?" "A MILLION BILLION. Billion."
I think the real problem we may be having is that nobody's sure what exactly twenty dollars is actually worth anymore.
I think that what a lot of people think, but haven't really said, is that the problem isn't a single fee of $20 - it's $20 paid on a regular basis, over a decent period of time. I don't mind paying $20 once for a good, self contained game - but the fact that it's episodic somewhat implies that that's not all you're going to pay.
As for the "this is not a one-time payment" thing; I would pay the price for this one game alone (which is solid and well-contained on its own), and if the others are promised to be better still, I would pay at least the same amount for them individually. Despite being episodic, the game does self-contain itself quite well, and it seems unfair to demand that we pay less for what has been promised to be more. While in the long run $20/per does appear steep, the opportunity cost of paying more in the long run for something I know for a fact I will thoroughly enjoy is better (to me personally, I can't speak for anyone else) than dropping 60 bucks on something all at once and risking being disappointed.
Not to mention we're given the opportunity in between episodes to crit and comment directly to the people involved. A few extra dollars for having my opinion actually listened to and taken into consideration? Hell yes, I'll pay for that.
Perhaps this is somewhat due to the fact I don't really understand the American dollar as much since I don't live in America. It cost me about $30-40 (Retail games are about $100-120) and I'd have happily paid $50. This is from someone who's a Student, living off the Student Loan and has an income of $150 a week. $20 is an incredibly cheap amount to pay for the amount of work that's CLEARLY gone into this game.
To give you some perspective on $20 from an American, our 360 and PS3 games here cost $60+, so RSPoD is a third of that cost. Our federal minimum wage right now is $5.85/hr (soon to be $6.55/hr). So, after taxes, you can figure about four hours of work will get you the game. That's, of course, if you don't live in a state with a higher minimum like Oregon which is currently $7.95/hr.
My wife and I can go out to a nice dine-in restaurant, and get a meal for two for about $27-35 dollars. If we go to a lower scale family restaurant, we might get away with $20-25 dollars.
In my opinion, this game was easily worth the $20. Though I don't think I would have paid more unless it came as a physical medium.
I said it in G&T and I'll say it here - 6 hours of gameplay/$23 (taxes) works out to roughly $4/hour.
That is a bargain. Phawx, while you've made a long winded, valiant, and mostly useless effort here, I can't support it. I can, and will pay $20 for ep 2.
I can only assume those complaining about the price are younger members with no real income of their own. I don't fit that profile, so I think $20 is perfectly acceptable. I own a bunch of PA merch. Tshirts, books, the like. I think all that other stuff cost $20 or so, so whatever.
In this modern, post-9/11 world, I have just come to accept that $20 is the minimum anything of importance costs. It is the smallest consequential denomination of currency. If a $5 or $10 bill was on the ground, nestled under a dollop of hobo shit, I wouldn't consider it. But if it was a $20, I'd go for it. So this means that $20 is the threshold of "impulse buy". Under that figure, I don't even think about. At or over it, I consider the purchase. In this case, the consideration was "It's PA? I like PA. Giddyup."
I understand the apprehension of those who don't want to invest their twenties on something that may leave poo on their fingers, but to me (and presumably thousands of others) the decision was easy.
That's, of course, if you don't live in a state with a higher minimum like Oregon which is currently $7.95/hr.
Oregon FTW!!!
however living costs are higher here (the one housing market that has not lost value), but still a living wage in America is about $12/HR our minimum wage is terrible!
this post was off topic because the topic of this thread is stupid!
Okay, do we need to have a vote, or what? I mean, cost of living doesn't come into one-off payments, does it? You'd have to factor in what other luxuries you buy for yourself. I know that you either think the game is worth it, which means:
A) You didn't mind spending the small amount of money for an okay game, or You'd happily spend that medium size of money for a great game,
Or you don't think it's worth it, because:
C) You'd rather not pay a medium amount of money for an okay game, or
D) You'd never pay a large amount of money for a crap game.
That's over-simple, but still, the key factors of perception are 1) How much money it is to you, and 2) How much the game is worth to you.
I don't think there's a problem whatsoever with the game costing $20. Everything I've read so far seem to indicate that it's easily worth that amount of money.
I do think that there's a problem of perception with the game costing 1600 MS points, on a service where this price point is essentially unheard of for a new XBLA title. This is, in part, a wider problem with the whole arbitrary-conversion monetary deal; you're essentially creating a whole new economy for games to be compared against each other by. Which brings out ridiculous statements like "Well, I could buy Halo for the same price, or Symphony of the Night + Geometry Wars, or such and such" comparisons. It's all being held up underneath the same banner, which is a problem.
I think once we start seeing more fully-fledged games start being released on Live, then this will become less of a deal. For now, PAA is just going to be known as that really expensive Live Arcade game. Or that reasonably priced PC game.
I regularly pay $20 to buy a movie that I had already seen for $10 in the theater, and my newly purchased DVD of the movie will likely be watched once then shoved in to my collection only to be drawn out from hiding upon someone asking to borrow it. So yeah, I don't mind paying $20 for a great game.
Episode 1 cost over a million dollars, episode two is around half of that. Anyone who uses that to try and argue that episode two should cost ten dollars needs to be shot. Source for the numbers is the Forbes article on episodic gaming from April.
When they interviewed me for that article, I wouldn't tell her how much the game cost to make, but she asked "well, can i say it's over a million dollars?" and I replied with "sure," which sadly people are interpreting as "the game cost a million dollars to make."
For the record, development costs were much much greater than this.
$20 only seems high to young hardcore gamers (mostly high school and college males). In the world of indie games--casual, semi-casual, and more sophisticated hardcore games (strategy, roleplaying)--$20 is the de facto standard. It is what almost every developer prices his/her game at.
I believe with a different payment system than Microsoft currently uses, XBLA games would also cost closer to this price than they currently do. They get away with supposedly lower prices because they cloak the true cost with a point system and force you to buy points at set, higher increments. Most original XBLA games already effectively cost $12.50 from the comfort of your couch.
And this is more of a "hardcore" market than the PC one.
In short, I think RSP is priced pretty normally, considering that it is a cross-platform indie release. It just looks expensive to a young gamer with little or no income.
I can only assume those complaining about the price are younger members with no real income of their own. I don't fit that profile, so I think $20 is perfectly acceptable. I own a bunch of PA merch. Tshirts, books, the like. I think all that other stuff cost $20 or so, so whatever.
In this modern, post-9/11 world, I have just come to accept that $20 is the minimum anything of importance costs. It is the smallest consequential denomination of currency. If a $5 or $10 bill was on the ground, nestled under a dollop of hobo shit, I wouldn't consider it. But if it was a $20, I'd go for it. So this means that $20 is the threshold of "impulse buy". Under that figure, I don't even think about. At or over it, I consider the purchase. In this case, the consideration was "It's PA? I like PA. Giddyup."
I understand the apprehension of those who don't want to invest their twenties on something that may leave poo on their fingers, but to me (and presumably thousands of others) the decision was easy.
This is a very good and important point. Indie developers don't just price their games at $20 (rather than $10 or $15) to make a little more off each sale; they do it because of perceived value. A game priced at $20 is perceived to have a higher intrinsic value than a game priced at $10. As Lukin said, in the adult world, $20 is the smallest amount that still seems to mean something; as such, it's a good price for indie games, because it's a good balance between still seeming cheap compared to newer mainstream games and competitive with bargain-bin ones, and not seeming cheap cheap, like it's not worth paying money for.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Episode 1 cost over a million dollars, episode two is around half of that. Anyone who uses that to try and argue that episode two should cost ten dollars needs to be shot. Source for the numbers is the Forbes article on episodic gaming from April.
When they interviewed me for that article, I wouldn't tell her how much the game cost to make, but she asked "well, can i say it's over a million dollars?" and I replied with "sure," which sadly people are interpreting as "the game cost a million dollars to make."
For the record, development costs were much much greater than this.
Would it be accurate to say that Ep.1 will probably lose money, but you guys are planning on making it up on the backend with Episodes 2-4?
Gabe just said 16,000 units sold on XBLA. That's a gross taking of 320,000 dollars. If that's "all", then oh dear, but obviously there are a ton of win, mac, and linux users buying too, right? That's still gross, but man, I just really hope it proves a good experience for everybody.
I wonder if I can help? It sounds like it's not worth it, because i'm underqualified and busy worrying about my own stuff, but like... can you write to your local newspaper about it? Or local tv? Get some friends to dress up as gabe and tycho or wield a rake in triumph, so people ask, wtf is that?
It all adds up, and maybe the community can help sell it. If they play it and don't like it, then there's not much we can do about that, but I just worry incase it flops, and we could have all pulled together (like a contracting anus) and saved Ep2.
I know I'm among a group of people who want to help out; how big is that group?
Episode 1 cost over a million dollars, episode two is around half of that. Anyone who uses that to try and argue that episode two should cost ten dollars needs to be shot. Source for the numbers is the Forbes article on episodic gaming from April.
When they interviewed me for that article, I wouldn't tell her how much the game cost to make, but she asked "well, can i say it's over a million dollars?" and I replied with "sure," which sadly people are interpreting as "the game cost a million dollars to make."
For the record, development costs were much much greater than this.
Would it be accurate to say that Ep.1 will probably lose money, but you guys are planning on making it up on the backend with Episodes 2-4?
Yes, this is accurate.
As far as having everyone help us sell it, yeah, obviously every little bit helps. The entire model is a huge experiment for the industry that a few players like Telltale and us are taking part in... independent, no publisher support, figuring out our own channel... our bet was that the model is viable, but there's still a huge chance it's not.
So, if you were like a salesinator, sent from the future to prevent the downfall of PAA, armed with nothing but your futuristic marketing instincts and cyborg PR skills, what would be your first move?
So, if you were like a salesinator, sent from the future to prevent the downfall of PAA, armed with nothing but your futuristic marketing instincts and cyborg PR skills, what would be your first move?
Wow, don't you know? Robert *IS* a salesinator, sent from the future to prevent the downfall of PAA. He already used his hyper-cyborg skills to create a viable business model for Penny Arcade. Now he's using his super-psychic abilities to read the temporal landscape from his pan-dimensional underlings to create a new business model that will endure.
I mean, this the only rational explanation I can think of.
Posts
Because, yeah, it's unreasonable to argue about minimum wages, but defending the game is absolutely worth 20$ just because somebody's paid 20$ is being in denial.
Let me put it this way: 20$ is fine for it in my book, but I wouldn't pay 21.
This. I initially balked at the $20 price (yes, being a Sam n Max vet as well). But then I thought to myself I would really like to see this game succeed, if nothing just based on how much I've read and laughed at PA over the last few years. The funny part is I don't think $20 seems outrageous for any given episode, but I probably will look back a bit in regret at paying $80 for four episodes (and so on). I do the same thing with comic books ($4 wasn't so bad, was it worth $28 no own this 7-issue mini? prolly not). In that sense, even though a $5 difference seems negligible, you multiply it out among several eps and suddenly the standard $60 ($15 per) for a 30 hour RPG seems appropriate.
Okay, all that said I had a blast with the game and it was worth the money. BUT, I certainly hope future eps aren't SHORTER for the same price.
i wasn't even commenting upon the fact that you think it should cost less; i was responding to you insinuating that you knew what the 'right thing' for them to do is. how does this make me elitist and pretentious? if anything you are the pretentious one here, waltzing in pretending to know exactly what they should so and saying it is the 'right thing'.
and we're posting on a forum, i am not following a bunch of links to go read comments from people i don't care about. i am sure plenty of people don't like the price or the game, good for them, they may continue to do so, and if they come and post here i might respond.
and you didn't only 'advise them to do what you believe is right' you said something along the lines of 'i believe they will do what is right' which is exactly the sort of thing a condescending parent says to their child when they are really only trying to tell the kid to choose the choice they want him or her to make.
now you can put down your thesaurus and go reread your posts and take a look at your tone (scrape past that fake smile you tried to smear over it) and i would advise you to apologize to the game creators; not for your criticism, because there is nothing wrong with criticism, but for your pretentious approach and condescending attitude.
but of course you won't do that, you'll probably respond to this post with indignation and not even take a second to really read what is in it, like last time.
For that very reason I buy shirts from PA, I click their banner ads every now and again, and I buy prints of the comics that resonate with me.
Honestly, this release could have cost 10 bucks and this thread would have still existed because some people will bitch, piss, and moan at whatever they can to earn themselves some whuffie...
If any of my posts come across to you as condescending, honestly they shouldn't, I apologize. Sadly, inflection does not carry over to text.
I just finished the game. I have to say I really like the narrator. Also, I am a HUGE fan of the battle system. Just got the 'silent but deadly' cheevo and it was a nice 'cherry on top' to end the game.
Bel,
Might I suggest you reread my posts? I do make mention that I can, indeed, be wrong. Right now, its all in the air. Numbers will speak for themselves. I happen to believe their is a magic number. But what do I know? I haven't accomplished ANYTHING on the scale that PA has reached.
And yes, you are elitist. You have a smug attitude. Talk down to me all you wish.
I'm tired of not haveing an income >:c
Well, no one is entitled to the game. Question though...If your mom won't let you get a job and you don't get an allowence...how did you buy this game?
Sounds pretty good. I personally don't really want the game to be much longer than 10 hrs. That is the whole point of the episodic format. I just don't have the countless hours to spend gaming anymore and would much rather have a shorter game that is great than a long game that has a bunch of extra stuff crammed into it just to make it longer.
If anything you guys should head over to the EA forums and start bitching about them charging $60 for a new version of Madden every August when all it is essentially a roster update and a couple of gimmicky features added.
Well yeah if you skipped 60% of the content then yes you could beat Mass Effect in 8 hours.
That's totally the same thing as a complete game being 6-8 hours. And some people DON'T pay full price for games like that, they wait until they are lower in price.
Anyway it sounds like Episode 2 will have a lot of improvements over Ep1 so I don't think I'll mind chipping in another twenty for it.
I mean, that's basically a lapdance, but RSPD doesn't come with herpes or the shame.
I bought it on the PC, not on XBox Live.
Perhaps if I was accustomed purchasing stuff on Live and this was more expensive it would be more of an issue for me.
Lot's of fun thus far
If they started it at $15 that means they would have to sell 25% more as opposed to $20. It's obviously too late now. I just hope that PA and Hothead make their money back AT THE LEAST.
I would hate for an independent game company feel that its not worth being in the small end games business. Mike and Jerry have already stated that if they knew how much would be involved before they started this project, they would not have done it.
Now imagine if they have low numbers, we might not see another PA series. Which would suck.
/shrug
My name is antichris, and I approve this message.
I think Max Payne (both installments, really) received a lot of complaints about the play time as well, so complaining about PA is not completely unfair. For PA the same applies as for Max Payne: short play time can be excusable as long as you ensure the quality of play time that you do get is high enough. So far, they have been doing a good job, in my opinion, but I feel they could do a little better.
I do agree that the EA sports games are a ripoff but there are still millions of people that buy Madden every single year. Those loyal Madden buyers obviously feel that it is well worth the $60 every year. This is why this price argument can't be won by anyone. The value of something is only what someone is willing to pay for it. Some people would gladly pay $50 for this game, so they feel that $20 is a great deal. Others would only pay $10 or $5, so they feel that $20 is outrageous.
Personally, I think it is a pretty good price. It might be a tad on the high end but I haven't really played more than an hour of it so I couldn't say one way or the other if it is worth it. Bottom line for me is that I enjoy PA and like what they do so I decided to support them by purchasing the game without even trying the demo. They've given me hundreds of comics I've enjoyed for free over the years, the least I can do is spend $20 on their foray into game making.
First of all the game is easily, easily worth $20. Anyone who could play through those 6-8ish hours of hillarious, awesome gameplay. Gameplay that improved, defied and polished conventions. Then go "Well it was good, but it wasn't $20 good" is an absolutely unpleasable miscreant. Simple as that.
Perhaps this is somewhat due to the fact I don't really understand the American dollar as much since I don't live in America. It cost me about $30-40 (Retail games are about $100-120) and I'd have happily paid $50. This is from someone who's a Student, living off the Student Loan and has an income of $150 a week. $20 is an incredibly cheap amount to pay for the amount of work that's CLEARLY gone into this game.
That said even if you don't feel that way you should still want to pay it. Why? Because you're supporting three fantastic endevours!
1- Episodic Gaming/Online Purchases. Supporting episodic gaming is supporting the rights to buy games that aren't influenced by Wallmart or as many silly censor/forced trope morons. It's a great, great system that rewards the user as much as the producer. Instead of paying full price for a whole game, just pay a bit now and if you decide you don't like it leave it at that. It's a great system and fully worth our support.
2- Smaller time developers. This goes right in hand with supporting Episodic Gaming, supporting groups like HotHead developers is giving money to people that aren't EA, nor Microsoft (Nor even Ubisoft, Nintendo or Blizzard). It's saying you don't ONLY need to be a huge production house to make games anymore. Think about it, do you really want *all* your games to be made from giant, billion dollar companies? I for one would prefer a market that's open enough to give game programmers enough variety of emploment they don't only have to work at EA...
3- Penny Arcade/Mike and Jerry. This one is beyond obvious, would you rather give your money to some faceless corporation aiming at creating games targetted towards entire demographics and age groups (eg See the evolution from Sands of Time to Warrior Within and tell me that wasn't a cashflow orientated decision) or would you rather give your money to something made by people you've liked/been fans of since time began? You've seen their comic strips for how long? You've played with em in WoW? Listened to their podcasts?
Yet you niggle over a measly $5 when they make a game targeted at you (Penny Arcade fans)? How pathetic.
There's no $20 problem. That's the price of the game. That's how much the game cost to purchase. This is like saying that anything in any store that costs $money has a $money problem.
Also, for all the criticism there is on these links that have been posted a bunch of posts earlier, very few would have bought the game anyway. Look at the Major Nelson link. Most of those who complain (and those who complain the most vocally), don't even have a gamertag.
It's not just a single fee, it needs to be a sustainable fee - like for an mmo.
I've finished it and although it wasn't OMG BEST GAEM EVAR!!!11 it was well worth $20.
The argument that "I have paid for the engine now, next time I just want to pay for the content" is particularily stupid IMO. That's usually not the way it works. When they drew up the budget for this game I'm pretty sure they calculated that the cost of creating the game engine was to be split and recuperated from the price of all four episodes.
The only thing I could think when I read that was:
I think the real problem we may be having is that nobody's sure what exactly twenty dollars is actually worth anymore.
As for the "this is not a one-time payment" thing; I would pay the price for this one game alone (which is solid and well-contained on its own), and if the others are promised to be better still, I would pay at least the same amount for them individually. Despite being episodic, the game does self-contain itself quite well, and it seems unfair to demand that we pay less for what has been promised to be more. While in the long run $20/per does appear steep, the opportunity cost of paying more in the long run for something I know for a fact I will thoroughly enjoy is better (to me personally, I can't speak for anyone else) than dropping 60 bucks on something all at once and risking being disappointed.
Not to mention we're given the opportunity in between episodes to crit and comment directly to the people involved. A few extra dollars for having my opinion actually listened to and taken into consideration? Hell yes, I'll pay for that.
To give you some perspective on $20 from an American, our 360 and PS3 games here cost $60+, so RSPoD is a third of that cost. Our federal minimum wage right now is $5.85/hr (soon to be $6.55/hr). So, after taxes, you can figure about four hours of work will get you the game. That's, of course, if you don't live in a state with a higher minimum like Oregon which is currently $7.95/hr.
My wife and I can go out to a nice dine-in restaurant, and get a meal for two for about $27-35 dollars. If we go to a lower scale family restaurant, we might get away with $20-25 dollars.
In my opinion, this game was easily worth the $20. Though I don't think I would have paid more unless it came as a physical medium.
Oregon FTW!!!
That is a bargain. Phawx, while you've made a long winded, valiant, and mostly useless effort here, I can't support it. I can, and will pay $20 for ep 2.
In this modern, post-9/11 world, I have just come to accept that $20 is the minimum anything of importance costs. It is the smallest consequential denomination of currency. If a $5 or $10 bill was on the ground, nestled under a dollop of hobo shit, I wouldn't consider it. But if it was a $20, I'd go for it. So this means that $20 is the threshold of "impulse buy". Under that figure, I don't even think about. At or over it, I consider the purchase. In this case, the consideration was "It's PA? I like PA. Giddyup."
I understand the apprehension of those who don't want to invest their twenties on something that may leave poo on their fingers, but to me (and presumably thousands of others) the decision was easy.
Edit: Whew, I just realized these are just the Xbox figures. That took a while to actually digest.
Be free, go Linux: www.ubuntu.com
If you're dumb enough not to think it's worth the money don't buy it.
What was this conversation about again?
however living costs are higher here (the one housing market that has not lost value), but still a living wage in America is about $12/HR our minimum wage is terrible!
this post was off topic because the topic of this thread is stupid!
http://papercrafted.com
yet another outlet of my creative goods
A) You didn't mind spending the small amount of money for an okay game, or
Or you don't think it's worth it, because:
C) You'd rather not pay a medium amount of money for an okay game, or
D) You'd never pay a large amount of money for a crap game.
That's over-simple, but still, the key factors of perception are 1) How much money it is to you, and 2) How much the game is worth to you.
I do think that there's a problem of perception with the game costing 1600 MS points, on a service where this price point is essentially unheard of for a new XBLA title. This is, in part, a wider problem with the whole arbitrary-conversion monetary deal; you're essentially creating a whole new economy for games to be compared against each other by. Which brings out ridiculous statements like "Well, I could buy Halo for the same price, or Symphony of the Night + Geometry Wars, or such and such" comparisons. It's all being held up underneath the same banner, which is a problem.
I think once we start seeing more fully-fledged games start being released on Live, then this will become less of a deal. For now, PAA is just going to be known as that really expensive Live Arcade game. Or that reasonably priced PC game.
When they interviewed me for that article, I wouldn't tell her how much the game cost to make, but she asked "well, can i say it's over a million dollars?" and I replied with "sure," which sadly people are interpreting as "the game cost a million dollars to make."
For the record, development costs were much much greater than this.
Media costs whatever people pay for it.
We never argued about music CDs being overpriced or not in that class again. Saved us lots of time to talk about issues that do matter.
I believe with a different payment system than Microsoft currently uses, XBLA games would also cost closer to this price than they currently do. They get away with supposedly lower prices because they cloak the true cost with a point system and force you to buy points at set, higher increments. Most original XBLA games already effectively cost $12.50 from the comfort of your couch.
And this is more of a "hardcore" market than the PC one.
In short, I think RSP is priced pretty normally, considering that it is a cross-platform indie release. It just looks expensive to a young gamer with little or no income.
Edit: Just wanted to follow up on this as well.
This is a very good and important point. Indie developers don't just price their games at $20 (rather than $10 or $15) to make a little more off each sale; they do it because of perceived value. A game priced at $20 is perceived to have a higher intrinsic value than a game priced at $10. As Lukin said, in the adult world, $20 is the smallest amount that still seems to mean something; as such, it's a good price for indie games, because it's a good balance between still seeming cheap compared to newer mainstream games and competitive with bargain-bin ones, and not seeming cheap cheap, like it's not worth paying money for.
Would it be accurate to say that Ep.1 will probably lose money, but you guys are planning on making it up on the backend with Episodes 2-4?
I wonder if I can help? It sounds like it's not worth it, because i'm underqualified and busy worrying about my own stuff, but like... can you write to your local newspaper about it? Or local tv? Get some friends to dress up as gabe and tycho or wield a rake in triumph, so people ask, wtf is that?
It all adds up, and maybe the community can help sell it. If they play it and don't like it, then there's not much we can do about that, but I just worry incase it flops, and we could have all pulled together (like a contracting anus) and saved Ep2.
I know I'm among a group of people who want to help out; how big is that group?
Yes, this is accurate.
As far as having everyone help us sell it, yeah, obviously every little bit helps. The entire model is a huge experiment for the industry that a few players like Telltale and us are taking part in... independent, no publisher support, figuring out our own channel... our bet was that the model is viable, but there's still a huge chance it's not.
Fingers crossed guys.
Wow, don't you know? Robert *IS* a salesinator, sent from the future to prevent the downfall of PAA. He already used his hyper-cyborg skills to create a viable business model for Penny Arcade. Now he's using his super-psychic abilities to read the temporal landscape from his pan-dimensional underlings to create a new business model that will endure.
I mean, this the only rational explanation I can think of.