One of my Choir blisters was missing a 30mm base right out of the package, and I contacted Privateer about the replacement base.
I.....I bought that blister at the Privateer booth at PAX' 06...... I think someone is going to get reamed.....
Thank god it was only a missing base!
This isn't nearly as big of a deal as you think. So far one of my Centurion's arms arrived broken, Lt. Allister Caine was missing his sword, the Gun Mage Capt. Adept had no hand, and two of my trenchers arrived sans bases. They all got replaced post haste.
So after getting into Rezolutions, I am thinking about splurging and getting into Warmachines. What would you guys recommend for a very inexperienced miniature gamer? I'm thinking of picking something up in the next month or so. What armies are the best? Should I just get a beginning battleset? The books look really awesome, I'd like to pick one up to hold me over until I get more monies, which book should I get at first? This game looks incredibly awesome.
So after getting into Rezolutions, I am thinking about splurging and getting into Warmachines. What would you guys recommend for a very inexperienced miniature gamer? I'm thinking of picking something up in the next month or so. What armies are the best? Should I just get a beginning battleset? The books look really awesome, I'd like to pick one up to hold me over until I get more monies, which book should I get at first? This game looks incredibly awesome.
Start with the initial box, and if you've got the cash Prime:Remix. (Personally I like the art in Prime better, but you'll want the book for the updated rules and errata, not the art).
All four (6 if you count the merc boxes, 10 if you want to add the Hordes factions) boxes are fairly well balanced. Khador can be good for beginners, you've got fewer models in the box so less things to keep track of. In addition the jacks can take a pounding while dishing it out. Cygnar is also pretty good, you've got 3 jacks to keep track of that are all fairly resilient (not Khador tough, but tougher then the others). Menoth is a little tougher to play. Their jacks tend to be slightly less powerful but they make up for it with amazing buff spells from their casters and some infantry (if you play PoM, you'll want a choir ASAP if you plan on running jacks at all) as well as lots of template attacks. Cryx is probably the least newbie friendly. The box comes with more jacks then any other faction and they require the player to be sneaky. Their jacks can't take a punch but hit hard and move fast, also most of the light jacks have arc nodes on them. These are delightful, and you'll love them or hate them depending on which side of the board has them.
What would a Cygnar starting box and Prime:Remix cost me at a good discount website? Anything really important about painting? Can I just use my GW paints?
Well, the starters got pricejacked to 50$ (to match the Hordes ones) But The book should only cost you aboiut 30$?
The Warstore has some great deals and a good selection of Privateer products. You'll get Prime Remix for a cheap price too, about 20 bucks is you want soft-bound and 33$ish if you want Hardcover.
You should look into Collecting Escalation, Apothosis, and Superiority as well, granted, the rules for the models come on the stat card, but this way you can read what models do before you buy them, and it's good to have on hand for Proxies. Thankfully they are all soft-bound books so only cost about as much as a army codex for 40k.
What do you guys think, I got a lot of help from other players, they reccomended Exemplars Errant because It would give me a unit that can get in and charge shooters that would normally cause my fottslog problems (I'm looking at you, Long Gunners and Trenchers.) and a was told the merc Rupert the piper is an "must have" model for Menoth, because he's like a Choir for my troops. And hell, I even have wiggle room if I chose not to run any one of my Heavy warjacks, I can put in 4 Exemplar Vengers (the AWESOME Menoth Calvary.) It doesnt matter which one I take out either, so it could make for a lot of switching out.
I'm new to WM, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I do, however, play Menoth, so I've done a lot of looking into these guys. For some reason my math shows this last at 995 points, although I could be wrong about that.
Why you need two choirs? With a full unit, you can cover a lot of territory, and you should be able to fill out your EE's or your Zealots and pick up some Wracks.
As an observation, do you have enough stuff out there to die for the Reclaimer to be able to really do his thing? An extra choir is a good, cheap sacrafice for 6 soul tokens, I suppose, but those other units are pretty resilient.
Finally, is the Guardian there to lay a beatdown, or is he there for his arc node (I believe he's the only heavy with an arc node, but I could be remembering wrong). If he's more there for the arc node, would a second Revenger do the same job for 50 points less and have the option of using his shield to back up enemy models so he's not enganged so you can use his arc node? With 50 extra points, you could fill out that other unit and bring in another solo or two. Vilmon with a couple of paladins can be pretty brutal.
I do like the combo, though, of popping eKreoss' feat and the Reclaimer's feat to put 2d6 models in b2b with an enemy warcaster and making him or her dead (average of 7 KE's with 14 P+S 11 weaponmaster auto-hit attacks isn't a bad thing at all, even against Armor 20), if you can pull it off.
That's all I got. Personally, I'm more looking towards putting together a Harby+Feora/eFeora type of list, but that's just me. Something about units of Cleansers that can't die just makes me very happy.
Most of the Advice I got was from people over at the official Menoth tactica forum over at the Privateer boards.
On the Guardian, I really like him, he's got the melee-only auto-retribution, as well as a banner that makes my guys never flee/Automatic Rally within so many inches of him, I have been playing with just taking it out in favor of 4 Vengers though, but yeah, I do use him for fighting alongside the Avatar.
I use two Chior in case I lose a Warpriest. (very possible against Cygnar.) they said 2 Choir help immensely as that way you have a Chior to do all the other jacks, and one you can devote solely to the Avatar.
I went with the Reclamer as my socond warcaster because of his Smokescreens and nuking abilities, and his feat does Synergize a lot with Krieoss's whole "HAY I HAEL WHEN MENOTH TROOPS BITE IT IN MY CONTROL ZOEN!!!!1!1"
I don't like wracks because they're like a "Exploding barrel" waiting there to be shot.
Most of the Advice I got was from people over at the official Menoth tactica forum over at the Privateer boards.
On the Guardian, I really like him, he's got the melee-only auto-retribution, as well as a banner that makes my guys never flee/Automatic Rally within so many inches of him, I have been playing with just taking it out in favor of 4 Vengers though, but yeah, I do use him for fighting alongside the Avatar.
I use two Chior in case I lose a Warpriest. (very possible against Cygnar.) they said 2 Choir help immensely as that way you have a Chior to do all the other jacks, and one you can devote solely to the Avatar.
I went with the Reclamer as my socond warcaster because of his Smokescreens and nuking abilities, and his feat does Synergize a lot with Krieoss's whole "HAY I HAEL WHEN MENOTH TROOPS BITE IT IN MY CONTROL ZOEN!!!!1!1"
I don't like wracks because they're like a "Exploding barrel" waiting there to be shot.
Then you're golden. So long as everything has a job, all is well. If you're using the Guardian as a beat stick and morale boost along with being an arc node, then it's doing its job just fine. And I agree that a choir devoted to the Avatar is a good idea; he's amazing.
With the wracks, though, so long as they have their focus on them, they can't be shot, and since you can only grab 1 focus per round, no matter how many of them you have, at least 2 of them are safe from range. And, if deployed correctly, will make you opponent think twice about going near them since you can grab a focus off them and have a 50/50 chance of having it blow them up. And, if they decide to go up and hit it, whatever killed it will probably take at least some damage, which isn't bad for a 5 point model, or if it doesn't take damage, tie up a model that for sure costs more than 5 points. If your list is, in fact, 995 points, it may be worth throwing one in, even if you just keep it out of the way for one free focus for one round; AD it on one side of the board and let it hold that flank for you.
Truth be told I only have enough models for my little 500pt list, those lists are what my goals are, anyway, Here's my paintjob of Normal Krieoss, I decided to post him here, as a lot of the other guys have more experience with Citadel/Vallejo paints and not with Privateer's line. (I just love the menoth paintbox so much.) and I'm just unsure if they cound advise me, Menoth has a really funky paintsceme what with the brass and the white and the dark reddish that allmost like a purple or maroon. Sanguine red is what P3 calls it. I'm not even sure if inking black as per usuall would be a smart idea with this crazy paintscheme.
Check the Menoth paint scheme again. The white isn't actually white, it's a bleach bone kind of color. You'll want to make the white cloth look more like linen, and less like metal painted white. Give it some lowlights, washes, and highlights. You'll see a big difference.-
It probably doesnt help I'm going from artwork in the books, is it?
And I really don't feel like Painting over Krieoss again, this is like my 3rd or 4th try with him.
Again, I didn't expect a lot of positive feedback, nobody has any love for the P3 . I tried my best, I assume you painted the Highlight paint over the base paints, so they kinda look mixed (the base white with the highlight white were supposed to give it some sort of marble-alabaster texture, I was guessing.). and I actually like how it looks myself, again, I didn't really expect a lot of positive stuff, it's just I don't have money for Simple Green and I hate to contantly prime over whenever I screw up.
At this point I'm beggining to buckle and just accepting my screwups and leaving them as it, instead of risk priming again and again.
Honestly I think I paint somewhat well for someone with a mental disorder. I used to be a lot worse than this.
I'm not saying you're bad. I'm just pointing out areas that you can improve. It looks like a base coat of white on there. Giving it a wash and some lowlights would make it look more like cloth.
Also, I've heard nothing but good things about P3 paints. I'd recommend checking out http://www.brushthralls.com for some tips on using them. They've got some excellent tutorials there.
I'm not saying you're bad. I'm just pointing out areas that you can improve. It looks like a base coat of white on there. Giving it a wash and some lowlights would make it look more like cloth.
Also, I've heard nothing but good things about P3 paints. I'd recommend checking out http://www.brushthralls.com for some tips on using them. They've got some excellent tutorials there.
How would you reccomend going about doing that then, I have some black ink, but I think this might call for a different kind of wash. also, how would you reccomend doing the lowlights?
I was reading through Brushthralls too, and I just don't know how to apply a lot of the articles to me, a lot of it sounds like really advanced stuff.
and please trust me when I say I'm not trying to diss your advice, it's just I have a hard time understanding it.
Edit: Eh I hit up Krieoss and two of my Jacks with some Menoth base lowlights, I might try hitting them up with a black inkwash and taking some pictures tomorrow.
so I picked up a troll bloods and everblight box, in hopes to get my roomate / friends to start playing hordes. got everything glued / stuck together, I didn't really use any pining, if they start to fall aprt ill resort to that for sure, but the carnevean seems to be plenty stable .
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
awesome! i play trolls and everblight too.
word of advice: if you use green stuff + zapagap, that thing will survive the apocalypse.
Clawshrimpy: your models look good, but have you ever considered thinning your paints? I used to paint out of the bottle, but once I started thinning, the look of the models improved dramatically.
I'm starting to decide what miniatures to get in Warmachine. Going to go with a Merc army with the Four Star contract and I'm mainly wondering whether to take a Ghordson Driller or Wroughthammer Rockram as a heavy jack. Mainly wondering what the differences in how they play and any experiences anyone's had with them. Also wondering which units can field a Warjack, aside from the Warcaster. I have Prime Remix, but it doesn't have much on the Mercs.
I'm starting to decide what miniatures to get in Warmachine. Going to go with a Merc army with the Four Star contract and I'm mainly wondering whether to take a Ghordson Driller or Wroughthammer Rockram as a heavy jack. Mainly wondering what the differences in how they play and any experiences anyone's had with them. Also wondering which units can field a Warjack, aside from the Warcaster. I have Prime Remix, but it doesn't have much on the Mercs.
The only people that can run jacks are warcasters themselves, or jack marshals. The Driller and Rockram can only be fielded by two warcasters (Durgen Madhammer, who is supergreat, and Gorten Grundback, who is ultragreat), and one jackmarshall, the leader of the hammerfall high shield gun corps. The driller is really, really good at laying down the hurt. If you give it one focus, and then cast Strength of Granite (one of Gorten's spells, +5 strength), then you start to really hurt things. Pow 20 and a Pow 22. I wouldn't recommend the Rockram yet. I haven't had much luck with him. His bellringer special action is insanely good, but it's hard to implement on the field (maybe I'm just doing it wrong). His gun, while intense at a pow 15, has a range of 7, which you can cross by charging. Not the greatest utility. Both jacks sit at defense 9 (ABYSMAL, even Khadoran jacks have to roll a 4 to hit them), but they have that armor 19, and an asston of health.
Playstyle for the dwarven casters. With Grundback, you create a shell, you start upkeeping Solid Ground, first turn, and slowly move up, using your Gunners to take deadly pot shots, your Blasters to take out infantry, and the Driller to tie things up or kill them. Grundback has a Speed of 4, making him the slowest. However, with his feat (pull things towards, or away from a board edge), he can mitigate that. Also, he's a decent shot and his gun lays down the hurt. Gorten backs this up with mildly above average defense (13), and stupendous armor (19 + focus), and enough health to take a few hits.
Durgen allows a tiny bit more maneuverability. His gun has three shots in the entire game. However, those three shots are ridiculously awesome. His spell primed makes any unit you use to slow people down into a minefield, meaning they blow up when they die. I find that using this on Alexia Ciannor's skeletons is the coolest proposition I have ever heard of. He's a decent shot, a bit squishier than Gorten, and his hammer is fantastic. If you're fielding a lot of people who don't hit hard, his feat becomes monstrous against warjacks (and beasts), because you auto deal a damage and pick where it goes, sliding down branches and annihilating systems. For jack on jack combat, his feat allows you to take out their shields or weapons in a very efficient manner.
Backed up by the Grundback Blaster and the Grundback Gunner, two of the most efficient light jacks in the game, the dwarves are a heavy hitting, hard to damage, slow moving steamroller. Most of my wins, however, using these armies, are from popping a feat, then using the caster to assassinate theirs. Gorten can double barrel them, and Durgen can drop a carpet bomb, or a case cracker into their chest. Both from a good 12 inches away. Good stuff.
I don't own the other mercenary casters, but I can say that Alexia Ciannor is essentially another caster, and she is the most useful 52 pt piece I have ever used in any game. Even in games where there are virtually no living creatures, her skeletons block charges, and eat dirt for your team.
so far in the 2 games i have played as everblight, I got smoked by the trollbloods, I might not be using animus / other specials on my cards right so i dont know. He's just used the troll bloods well. I've managed to smote his axer every time, but that guy can really put the pain to some of my guys if im not careful.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
well,I know you can play both against each other, alot of hordes players say that warmachine is a bit more powerful then hordes but its like this. Warlocks need thier beasts to do anything with out their beasts they are nothing. Where as warcasters generate their own focus no problem so become stronger when they dont have to allocate focus to a warjack. I think its all about wich game looks better to you and wich game u would enjoy more. Hordes is a fun game. even though I can't win yet lol.
Draeven on
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
Thanks for the advice. I had planned on using Durgen and Alexia, the thought of primed undead is too awesome to pass up. I've mainly seen lists that use either of the dwarven warcasters as being ranged, using the Grundback Gunners and Blasters. Is it viable to just take the heavy jacks, maybe two Wroughthammers, drillers, or one of both and just focus more towards melee? If so, what sort of unit do you think would work with it? I've mainly been thinking of using Nyss Hunters.
Edit: Also, I havn't seen much on painting it, but I havn't seen anything that doesn't use the standard color scheme of the armies. Is deviating from the regular colors frowned upon? Since I plan on playing Mercs, it probably won't matter much, but I just wanted to know incase I pick up another army.
Thanks for the advice. I had planned on using Durgen and Alexia, the thought of primed undead is too awesome to pass up. I've mainly seen lists that use either of the dwarven warcasters as being ranged, using the Grundback Gunners and Blasters. Is it viable to just take the heavy jacks, maybe two Wroughthammers, drillers, or one of both and just focus more towards melee? If so, what sort of unit do you think would work with it? I've mainly been thinking of using Nyss Hunters.
Edit: Also, I havn't seen much on painting it, but I havn't seen anything that doesn't use the standard color scheme of the armies. Is deviating from the regular colors frowned upon? Since I plan on playing Mercs, it probably won't matter much, but I just wanted to know incase I pick up another army.
Playing melee heavy dwarves is difficult, because their heavy jacks are slow, so trying to get them into range where they can do damage means they'll have to survive everything the enemy can throw at them. While they've got good armor, low defense means that they'll still take damage.
Of course, if you do manage to get into melee, they are absolutely devastating. Really it's a race between you and the hit boxes.
Few people will take issue with deviating from the regular color scheme. Really one of my favorite cryx armies on the PP boards is referred to as the Bubble Gum Cryx. A color scheme consisting of pink, a light blue and a warm gray. They are amazingly well painted and highly unique. Of course, you will always get people who bitch. If you go unpainted, they'll whine about that, if you go painted unique they'll whine about that, if you go painted the official scheme then you didn't paint them well enough...
Thanks for the advice. I had planned on using Durgen and Alexia, the thought of primed undead is too awesome to pass up. I've mainly seen lists that use either of the dwarven warcasters as being ranged, using the Grundback Gunners and Blasters. Is it viable to just take the heavy jacks, maybe two Wroughthammers, drillers, or one of both and just focus more towards melee? If so, what sort of unit do you think would work with it? I've mainly been thinking of using Nyss Hunters.
Edit: Also, I havn't seen much on painting it, but I havn't seen anything that doesn't use the standard color scheme of the armies. Is deviating from the regular colors frowned upon? Since I plan on playing Mercs, it probably won't matter much, but I just wanted to know incase I pick up another army.
Playing melee heavy dwarves is difficult, because their heavy jacks are slow, so trying to get them into range where they can do damage means they'll have to survive everything the enemy can throw at them. While they've got good armor, low defense means that they'll still take damage.
Of course, if you do manage to get into melee, they are absolutely devastating. Really it's a race between you and the hit boxes.
Few people will take issue with deviating from the regular color scheme. Really one of my favorite cryx armies on the PP boards is referred to as the Bubble Gum Cryx. A color scheme consisting of pink, a light blue and a warm gray. They are amazingly well painted and highly unique. Of course, you will always get people who bitch. If you go unpainted, they'll whine about that, if you go painted unique they'll whine about that, if you go painted the official scheme then you didn't paint them well enough...
Amen. I myself am using a colour scheme that is vaguely true to the original dwarf colours. I use a really deep green, and the metal is usually copper or gun metal. The highlights are in a fire orange. It's a strange scheme, but I paint well. The people at my LGS are not big on just sticking to the basics. Except for the warmachine players. Those silly bastards.
I wouldn't try making melee closing dwarves. I mean, if you're rocking the heavies, that's always the point, to close in and make them eat the dirt, but it is a far easier proposition when you can flank and divert attention by decimating their light stuff with the two most efficient light jacks in the game. With one blaster alone, I have spent one focus and gotten 5 focus worth of boosts, and I've only played them in about three games now. The problem is that the Dwarf heavy jacks are too slow. That's why you see a lot of Khadoran lists will field a Behemoth (other than the fact that it's insane) as well as a Destroyer (14 inch gun, pow 14). You have to make up, somehow, for that lack of distance crossing power. This doesn't mean that you have to field all gunners and blasters, but you should at least have a few to buy time or take hits while you cross that distance. So yeah, what the above poster said ++.
As to whether or not Hordes is stronger than Warmachine, the question will usually depend on game size. At 300-500, the warcaster/lock is a much more combat important piece, and even a single warbeast lost can mean that a warlock can no longer generate enough fury. Then that warcaster comes along with his full six focus and screws you up hard. However, at higher point games it is really easy to see that one warlock is pretty much better than a full unit of mechanics, healing up warbeasts to deadly functional at 10-14 inches. Hordes has some great lasting power in comparison to Warmachine. If you annihilate a system on a warjack, it is gone. Only two of the factions even have mechanics to repair their jacks, and that's valuable points you could spend elsewhere. A warlock needs only a few fury to spare and his warbeasts are once again fully up to snuff. I've played in some low point games. I always get rocked when I play Hordes (my trollbloods) vs Warmachine, and vice versa (When I play my pretty Dwarves vs some Everblight). Ultimately, if you're playing in anything 500 points or above, the winner won't be determined as much by which faction or game you play, but by how well you can manipulate the playing field for counter-charges and then mash your opponent. And if you ever fight Everblight, watch out for that Forsaken. They just love to slipstream him into your dudes and have him blow you up.
Dazed at the sheer wonderfullness that this thread provides I have purchased a starter pack of Cygnar and Khador.
Am I doing something wrong or is the Khador warjacks top plate not... ummmm... fit?
If I mount the engine in line with the body where it appears to match up there is a huge gap between the shoulders and the top plate. I've done some hefty grinding but before I broke out the dremel I thought I'd make sure I wasn't going crazy.
Do you need pictures or is this a common phenomenon?
How easy is it to mix Warmachine and Hordes? Are the Warmachines army to strong for the Hordes, or visa versa?
Warmachine generally has more power behind it; four books for WM as opposed to one for Hordes (until summer) gives the WM side more flexibility in army list composition. As far as power is concerned; the WM side may win on that sometimes, but there are ways around it with Hordes, so it's not too bad.
As far as melee heavy dwarves, I'd have to argue against it. You'll rarely get the charge vs other jacks, and while heavy armor is good; a heavy warjack loaded with focus tends to kill whatever it charges at.
Just thought I'd go ahead and alter/lime for truth.
Anyone have any troubling or particularly great games lately? I play about two games a week myself. The guy who runs my LGS owns Orboros, Everblight, and Skorne, as well as a small faction of mercs, so he's good people to play with. Let us shoot the shit. With great pistons that drive nails through Khadoran steel!
Posts
This isn't nearly as big of a deal as you think. So far one of my Centurion's arms arrived broken, Lt. Allister Caine was missing his sword, the Gun Mage Capt. Adept had no hand, and two of my trenchers arrived sans bases. They all got replaced post haste.
They'll at least ought to be somewhat embarassed.
Yessssss.
I can see the Thunderhead now. Crackling with lightning effects. Then when you use the Lightning coil there is a CRACKBOOM like thunder.
Oh man all the pops of the long gunners firing at once, smoke effects raising up towards the screen.
fapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfapfap
Start with the initial box, and if you've got the cash Prime:Remix. (Personally I like the art in Prime better, but you'll want the book for the updated rules and errata, not the art).
All four (6 if you count the merc boxes, 10 if you want to add the Hordes factions) boxes are fairly well balanced. Khador can be good for beginners, you've got fewer models in the box so less things to keep track of. In addition the jacks can take a pounding while dishing it out. Cygnar is also pretty good, you've got 3 jacks to keep track of that are all fairly resilient (not Khador tough, but tougher then the others). Menoth is a little tougher to play. Their jacks tend to be slightly less powerful but they make up for it with amazing buff spells from their casters and some infantry (if you play PoM, you'll want a choir ASAP if you plan on running jacks at all) as well as lots of template attacks. Cryx is probably the least newbie friendly. The box comes with more jacks then any other faction and they require the player to be sneaky. Their jacks can't take a punch but hit hard and move fast, also most of the light jacks have arc nodes on them. These are delightful, and you'll love them or hate them depending on which side of the board has them.
The Warstore has some great deals and a good selection of Privateer products. You'll get Prime Remix for a cheap price too, about 20 bucks is you want soft-bound and 33$ish if you want Hardcover.
You should look into Collecting Escalation, Apothosis, and Superiority as well, granted, the rules for the models come on the stat card, but this way you can read what models do before you buy them, and it's good to have on hand for Proxies. Thankfully they are all soft-bound books so only cost about as much as a army codex for 40k.
Army: Exemplar Caste Grand Melee
Faction: Protectorate of Menoth
Army Points: 745/750
Victory Points: 25
Warcaster:
Grand Exemplar Kreoss
Jacks:
Avatar of Menoth
Krieoss Battlegroup- Guardian Devout
Solos:
High Paladin Dartan Vilmon
Rupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
Units:
Choir of Menoth (6)
Exemplars Errant (8)
Holy Zealots (8)
Monolith Bearer
Knights Exemplar
Army: Exemplar Caste Battle Royale
Faction: Protectorate of Menoth
Army Points: 998/1000
Victory Points: 37
Warcasters:
Grand Exemplar Kreoss
High Reclaimer
Jacks:
Avatar of Menoth
Krieoss Battlegroup- Guardian, Devout
High Reclaimer Battlegroup- Revenger
Solos:
High Paladin Dartan Vilmon
Knight Exemplar Seneschal
Rupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
Unit:
Choir of Menoth (6)
Choir of Menoth (6)
Exemplars Errant (8)
Holy Zealots (8)
Monolith Bearer
Knights Exemplar
Knights Exemplar
What do you guys think, I got a lot of help from other players, they reccomended Exemplars Errant because It would give me a unit that can get in and charge shooters that would normally cause my fottslog problems (I'm looking at you, Long Gunners and Trenchers.) and a was told the merc Rupert the piper is an "must have" model for Menoth, because he's like a Choir for my troops. And hell, I even have wiggle room if I chose not to run any one of my Heavy warjacks, I can put in 4 Exemplar Vengers (the AWESOME Menoth Calvary.) It doesnt matter which one I take out either, so it could make for a lot of switching out.
I'm new to WM, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I do, however, play Menoth, so I've done a lot of looking into these guys. For some reason my math shows this last at 995 points, although I could be wrong about that.
Why you need two choirs? With a full unit, you can cover a lot of territory, and you should be able to fill out your EE's or your Zealots and pick up some Wracks.
As an observation, do you have enough stuff out there to die for the Reclaimer to be able to really do his thing? An extra choir is a good, cheap sacrafice for 6 soul tokens, I suppose, but those other units are pretty resilient.
Finally, is the Guardian there to lay a beatdown, or is he there for his arc node (I believe he's the only heavy with an arc node, but I could be remembering wrong). If he's more there for the arc node, would a second Revenger do the same job for 50 points less and have the option of using his shield to back up enemy models so he's not enganged so you can use his arc node? With 50 extra points, you could fill out that other unit and bring in another solo or two. Vilmon with a couple of paladins can be pretty brutal.
I do like the combo, though, of popping eKreoss' feat and the Reclaimer's feat to put 2d6 models in b2b with an enemy warcaster and making him or her dead (average of 7 KE's with 14 P+S 11 weaponmaster auto-hit attacks isn't a bad thing at all, even against Armor 20), if you can pull it off.
That's all I got. Personally, I'm more looking towards putting together a Harby+Feora/eFeora type of list, but that's just me.
On the Guardian, I really like him, he's got the melee-only auto-retribution, as well as a banner that makes my guys never flee/Automatic Rally within so many inches of him, I have been playing with just taking it out in favor of 4 Vengers though, but yeah, I do use him for fighting alongside the Avatar.
I use two Chior in case I lose a Warpriest. (very possible against Cygnar.) they said 2 Choir help immensely as that way you have a Chior to do all the other jacks, and one you can devote solely to the Avatar.
I went with the Reclamer as my socond warcaster because of his Smokescreens and nuking abilities, and his feat does Synergize a lot with Krieoss's whole "HAY I HAEL WHEN MENOTH TROOPS BITE IT IN MY CONTROL ZOEN!!!!1!1"
I don't like wracks because they're like a "Exploding barrel" waiting there to be shot.
Then you're golden. So long as everything has a job, all is well. If you're using the Guardian as a beat stick and morale boost along with being an arc node, then it's doing its job just fine. And I agree that a choir devoted to the Avatar is a good idea; he's amazing.
With the wracks, though, so long as they have their focus on them, they can't be shot, and since you can only grab 1 focus per round, no matter how many of them you have, at least 2 of them are safe from range. And, if deployed correctly, will make you opponent think twice about going near them since you can grab a focus off them and have a 50/50 chance of having it blow them up. And, if they decide to go up and hit it, whatever killed it will probably take at least some damage, which isn't bad for a 5 point model, or if it doesn't take damage, tie up a model that for sure costs more than 5 points. If your list is, in fact, 995 points, it may be worth throwing one in, even if you just keep it out of the way for one free focus for one round; AD it on one side of the board and let it hold that flank for you.
You may have already seen these, but in case not...
http://www.brushthralls.com/Mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=9
http://www.brushthralls.com/Mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=96&Itemid=9
Anyway, that's it on that so I don't beat a dead horse over 5 point support models.
Truth be told I only have enough models for my little 500pt list, those lists are what my goals are, anyway, Here's my paintjob of Normal Krieoss, I decided to post him here, as a lot of the other guys have more experience with Citadel/Vallejo paints and not with Privateer's line. (I just love the menoth paintbox so much.) and I'm just unsure if they cound advise me, Menoth has a really funky paintsceme what with the brass and the white and the dark reddish that allmost like a purple or maroon. Sanguine red is what P3 calls it. I'm not even sure if inking black as per usuall would be a smart idea with this crazy paintscheme.
And I really don't feel like Painting over Krieoss again, this is like my 3rd or 4th try with him.
Again, I didn't expect a lot of positive feedback, nobody has any love for the P3 . I tried my best, I assume you painted the Highlight paint over the base paints, so they kinda look mixed (the base white with the highlight white were supposed to give it some sort of marble-alabaster texture, I was guessing.). and I actually like how it looks myself, again, I didn't really expect a lot of positive stuff, it's just I don't have money for Simple Green and I hate to contantly prime over whenever I screw up.
At this point I'm beggining to buckle and just accepting my screwups and leaving them as it, instead of risk priming again and again.
Honestly I think I paint somewhat well for someone with a mental disorder. I used to be a lot worse than this.
Also, I've heard nothing but good things about P3 paints. I'd recommend checking out http://www.brushthralls.com for some tips on using them. They've got some excellent tutorials there.
How would you reccomend going about doing that then, I have some black ink, but I think this might call for a different kind of wash. also, how would you reccomend doing the lowlights?
I was reading through Brushthralls too, and I just don't know how to apply a lot of the articles to me, a lot of it sounds like really advanced stuff.
and please trust me when I say I'm not trying to diss your advice, it's just I have a hard time understanding it.
Edit: Eh I hit up Krieoss and two of my Jacks with some Menoth base lowlights, I might try hitting them up with a black inkwash and taking some pictures tomorrow.
Sorry for some Blurry Pictures, limited space and time.
word of advice: if you use green stuff + zapagap, that thing will survive the apocalypse.
Clawshrimpy: your models look good, but have you ever considered thinning your paints? I used to paint out of the bottle, but once I started thinning, the look of the models improved dramatically.
side note, any of you gangstas in hawaii?
WiiU: jooncole (Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate)
3DS: 2122-5983-8919
The only people that can run jacks are warcasters themselves, or jack marshals. The Driller and Rockram can only be fielded by two warcasters (Durgen Madhammer, who is supergreat, and Gorten Grundback, who is ultragreat), and one jackmarshall, the leader of the hammerfall high shield gun corps. The driller is really, really good at laying down the hurt. If you give it one focus, and then cast Strength of Granite (one of Gorten's spells, +5 strength), then you start to really hurt things. Pow 20 and a Pow 22. I wouldn't recommend the Rockram yet. I haven't had much luck with him. His bellringer special action is insanely good, but it's hard to implement on the field (maybe I'm just doing it wrong). His gun, while intense at a pow 15, has a range of 7, which you can cross by charging. Not the greatest utility. Both jacks sit at defense 9 (ABYSMAL, even Khadoran jacks have to roll a 4 to hit them), but they have that armor 19, and an asston of health.
Playstyle for the dwarven casters. With Grundback, you create a shell, you start upkeeping Solid Ground, first turn, and slowly move up, using your Gunners to take deadly pot shots, your Blasters to take out infantry, and the Driller to tie things up or kill them. Grundback has a Speed of 4, making him the slowest. However, with his feat (pull things towards, or away from a board edge), he can mitigate that. Also, he's a decent shot and his gun lays down the hurt. Gorten backs this up with mildly above average defense (13), and stupendous armor (19 + focus), and enough health to take a few hits.
Durgen allows a tiny bit more maneuverability. His gun has three shots in the entire game. However, those three shots are ridiculously awesome. His spell primed makes any unit you use to slow people down into a minefield, meaning they blow up when they die. I find that using this on Alexia Ciannor's skeletons is the coolest proposition I have ever heard of. He's a decent shot, a bit squishier than Gorten, and his hammer is fantastic. If you're fielding a lot of people who don't hit hard, his feat becomes monstrous against warjacks (and beasts), because you auto deal a damage and pick where it goes, sliding down branches and annihilating systems. For jack on jack combat, his feat allows you to take out their shields or weapons in a very efficient manner.
Backed up by the Grundback Blaster and the Grundback Gunner, two of the most efficient light jacks in the game, the dwarves are a heavy hitting, hard to damage, slow moving steamroller. Most of my wins, however, using these armies, are from popping a feat, then using the caster to assassinate theirs. Gorten can double barrel them, and Durgen can drop a carpet bomb, or a case cracker into their chest. Both from a good 12 inches away. Good stuff.
I don't own the other mercenary casters, but I can say that Alexia Ciannor is essentially another caster, and she is the most useful 52 pt piece I have ever used in any game. Even in games where there are virtually no living creatures, her skeletons block charges, and eat dirt for your team.
Planeswalker
Will of the Council - Starting with you, each player votes for death goblin.
I've got a hard-on for the Trollbloods, too.
How easy is it to mix Warmachine and Hordes? Are the Warmachines army to strong for the Hordes, or visa versa?
Edit: Also, I havn't seen much on painting it, but I havn't seen anything that doesn't use the standard color scheme of the armies. Is deviating from the regular colors frowned upon? Since I plan on playing Mercs, it probably won't matter much, but I just wanted to know incase I pick up another army.
Playing melee heavy dwarves is difficult, because their heavy jacks are slow, so trying to get them into range where they can do damage means they'll have to survive everything the enemy can throw at them. While they've got good armor, low defense means that they'll still take damage.
Of course, if you do manage to get into melee, they are absolutely devastating. Really it's a race between you and the hit boxes.
Few people will take issue with deviating from the regular color scheme. Really one of my favorite cryx armies on the PP boards is referred to as the Bubble Gum Cryx. A color scheme consisting of pink, a light blue and a warm gray. They are amazingly well painted and highly unique. Of course, you will always get people who bitch. If you go unpainted, they'll whine about that, if you go painted unique they'll whine about that, if you go painted the official scheme then you didn't paint them well enough...
Amen. I myself am using a colour scheme that is vaguely true to the original dwarf colours. I use a really deep green, and the metal is usually copper or gun metal. The highlights are in a fire orange. It's a strange scheme, but I paint well. The people at my LGS are not big on just sticking to the basics. Except for the warmachine players. Those silly bastards.
I wouldn't try making melee closing dwarves. I mean, if you're rocking the heavies, that's always the point, to close in and make them eat the dirt, but it is a far easier proposition when you can flank and divert attention by decimating their light stuff with the two most efficient light jacks in the game. With one blaster alone, I have spent one focus and gotten 5 focus worth of boosts, and I've only played them in about three games now. The problem is that the Dwarf heavy jacks are too slow. That's why you see a lot of Khadoran lists will field a Behemoth (other than the fact that it's insane) as well as a Destroyer (14 inch gun, pow 14). You have to make up, somehow, for that lack of distance crossing power. This doesn't mean that you have to field all gunners and blasters, but you should at least have a few to buy time or take hits while you cross that distance. So yeah, what the above poster said ++.
As to whether or not Hordes is stronger than Warmachine, the question will usually depend on game size. At 300-500, the warcaster/lock is a much more combat important piece, and even a single warbeast lost can mean that a warlock can no longer generate enough fury. Then that warcaster comes along with his full six focus and screws you up hard. However, at higher point games it is really easy to see that one warlock is pretty much better than a full unit of mechanics, healing up warbeasts to deadly functional at 10-14 inches. Hordes has some great lasting power in comparison to Warmachine. If you annihilate a system on a warjack, it is gone. Only two of the factions even have mechanics to repair their jacks, and that's valuable points you could spend elsewhere. A warlock needs only a few fury to spare and his warbeasts are once again fully up to snuff. I've played in some low point games. I always get rocked when I play Hordes (my trollbloods) vs Warmachine, and vice versa (When I play my pretty Dwarves vs some Everblight). Ultimately, if you're playing in anything 500 points or above, the winner won't be determined as much by which faction or game you play, but by how well you can manipulate the playing field for counter-charges and then mash your opponent. And if you ever fight Everblight, watch out for that Forsaken. They just love to slipstream him into your dudes and have him blow you up.
Planeswalker
Will of the Council - Starting with you, each player votes for death goblin.
Am I doing something wrong or is the Khador warjacks top plate not... ummmm... fit?
If I mount the engine in line with the body where it appears to match up there is a huge gap between the shoulders and the top plate. I've done some hefty grinding but before I broke out the dremel I thought I'd make sure I wasn't going crazy.
Do you need pictures or is this a common phenomenon?
I'm guessing you mean something like this, that I fixed with some greenstuff?
Warmachine generally has more power behind it; four books for WM as opposed to one for Hordes (until summer) gives the WM side more flexibility in army list composition. As far as power is concerned; the WM side may win on that sometimes, but there are ways around it with Hordes, so it's not too bad.
As far as melee heavy dwarves, I'd have to argue against it. You'll rarely get the charge vs other jacks, and while heavy armor is good; a heavy warjack loaded with focus tends to kill whatever it charges at.
WiiU: jooncole (Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate)
3DS: 2122-5983-8919
Just thought I'd go ahead and alter/lime for truth.
Anyone have any troubling or particularly great games lately? I play about two games a week myself. The guy who runs my LGS owns Orboros, Everblight, and Skorne, as well as a small faction of mercs, so he's good people to play with. Let us shoot the shit. With great pistons that drive nails through Khadoran steel!
Planeswalker
Will of the Council - Starting with you, each player votes for death goblin.
Trollbloods and Everblight
WiiU: jooncole (Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate)
3DS: 2122-5983-8919
Do you own the Forsaken or Seraphs yet? If yes, why do you hate fun?
Planeswalker
Will of the Council - Starting with you, each player votes for death goblin.
Specifically the issue with the Grind rules, #10.
It excites me. It excites me so much that I've been running around with ideas in the brain on how I'm going to build my own Grind arena.
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