Moment of the Week: 12/3/2008

SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
edited December 2008 in Graphic Violence
Secret Invasion #8 Actually Delivers!
Mockingbird and Hawkeye! YES!! Also, some super harshness for Iron Man. It's going to be a rough year.

Also, I don't know if this is already known but there's a cover preview for New Avengers #48. Looks like the new line up is
Ronin, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Luke Cage, and Captain America.

SatanIsMyMotor on
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Posts

  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    isn't treating Iron Man like he's some horrible person really fucking tired by now?

    Sars_Boy on
  • AntimatterAntimatter Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    No.

    Antimatter on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Hm.

    No surprise there. Re: Iron Man
    Matt Fraction has already said that the next year or so was going to focus on him redeeming himself for all of the shit that he got into since CW. So it makes sense to drop him to rock bottom before you begin a giant redemption arc. Also, it's about as shocking that they blame him for the invasion as ... Well, it's not. To paraphrase Dennis Miller (when he was funny) you could see that coming way off in the distance, like Omar Sharif approaching the well.

    Crimsondude on
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    but secret invasion wasn't Tony's fault at all

    that's what pisses me off

    Sars_Boy on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    The world isn't based on reality. It's based on the perception of reality. This is especially true in Marvel.

    Crimsondude on
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    it just seems like beating a dead horse to me

    things are bad because Tony Stark tried to implement what is essentially a good idea

    yeah he fucked up, but was Civil War his fault? No

    was SI his fault? Fuck no.

    Sars_Boy on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Tony was being set-up for the scape goat or whatever for all of this nonsense for years. Years.

    DouglasDanger on
    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I agree with you in principle. But I also think it'll make for an interesting arc/storyline, so I'm going to let it slide and hope Fraction and whoever else is writing Iron Man delivers.

    EDIT

    Plus, what DD said.

    Crimsondude on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Sars_Boy wrote: »
    it just seems like beating a dead horse to me

    things are bad because Tony Stark tried to implement what is essentially a good idea

    yeah he fucked up, but was Civil War his fault? No

    While I agree that making Tony out to be some kind of Serpentor-like mix of Genghis Khan, Hitler, and Pol Pot has gotten a little ludicrous, I think he can be blamed for the way some shit went down. I feel like, had he backed Cap in Civil War, and presented a united front to the government, the hero community wouldn't have ended up so fractured. Because really, who's going to follow Hank Pym? Someone heroes may have gotten behind Richards, until they saw his own wife, brother-in-law, and best friend told him to fuck off.

    Or he could have taken Steve into his confidence and worked with him on the SHRA, instead of saying, "Yo dude, this is what we're doing! It's gonna be awesome!" as seen in What If?: Civil War.

    But, through his actions, he fractured the hero community in two, making it more difficult to share information and strategize. He put the registered heroes in a database, where any shmuck with a little know-how could get their identity, go to their house, and give them a beat down (Tigra), or in the case of the Skrulls, analyze their powers to find the most effective way to kill them. He also spread the heroes out in tiny pockets throughout the country, making it easier for large Skrull strike teams to show up and spank their asses, rather than keep them centralized in large metropolitan areas. He was also complicit in a lot of shady shit like war profiteering, and allowing the CSA to keep a band of murderers and psychopaths around to cripple and dismember superheroes.

    Was he responsible for a lot of the bad shit that's happened? No. But he's shown tremendous hubris ("I'm a futurist! Listen to me!") and virtually every positive thing he's attempted has been somehow sabotaged or compromised, to the detriment of the superhero community and the world at large.

    Munch on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Plus the fact that Tony was part of that whole "Illuminati" thing, which still hasn't been totally revealed to everyone yet. Judging from the very last page of SI #8...
    Namor could be spilling his guts about all the shit they did.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Sars_Boy wrote: »
    it just seems like beating a dead horse to me

    things are bad because Tony Stark tried to implement what is essentially a good idea

    yeah he fucked up, but was Civil War his fault? No

    was SI his fault? Fuck no.

    Despite the fact that he was being treated like shit, the story definitely came off as being sympathetic to him.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    So I'm guessing that Secret Invasion doesn't have an epic ending, based on the highlights being aftermath stuff rather than the end to the actual invasion.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    So I'm guessing that Secret Invasion doesn't have an epic ending, based on the highlights being aftermath stuff rather than the end to the actual invasion.
    Well, it shows the end of the battle, it's just a whole lot of telling, rather than showing for my tastes.

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    it didn't have an ending at all

    Sars_Boy on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Sars_Boy wrote: »
    it didn't have an ending at all

    Whaddya mean?

    Robos A Go Go on
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Sars_Boy wrote: »
    it didn't have an ending at all

    Whaddya mean?
    there is literally no point in the story that could be called a conclusion
    the last part is norman stepping in to meet his villain Illuminati group

    Sars_Boy on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'd have guessed that the defeat of the Skrull Empire would be the end, and everything else would be the epilogue.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    it didn't really work that way

    at least it didn't feel that way
    considering it took them like 2 pages to defeat every skrull once the queen was dead

    Sars_Boy on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'd have to disagree with you Sars...
    the skrull threat IS over. That was the whole crux of the story. They are no longer a threat but a new threat has arrived in it's place. However you are right about the skrull empire suddenly being so easy to defeat after the queen went down. Smacks of "Return of the Jedi" logic.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    that's probably why it didn't feel like a proper ending at all

    that and the unanswered plot threads

    Sars_Boy on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    that's probably why it didn't feel like a proper ending at all

    that and the unanswered plot threads

    You mean...
    the Void thing? That does bother me also but I can't think of any other plot threads that were left dangling.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    that's probably why it didn't feel like a proper ending at all

    that and the unanswered plot threads
    You mean...
    the Void thing? That does bother me also but I can't think of any other plot threads that were left dangling.
    Baby

    Sars_Boy on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'll make a list of the loose ends in the Avengers thread when I redo the OP, and as always others' input is welcome. I mean, top of the list is going to have to be the fate of any captured Skrulls. 42 still has Sakaarians in it from WWH.

    Crimsondude on
  • edited December 2008
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    that's probably why it didn't feel like a proper ending at all

    that and the unanswered plot threads

    You mean...
    the Void thing? That does bother me also but I can't think of any other plot threads that were left dangling.

    that thing didn't happen in the main Secret Invasion book, so I don't expect it to be resolved in the main secret invasion book.

    Dareth Ram on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    S_D has scans of X-Men Noir #1 (Man, FUCK Diamond), and I was pretty ambivalent about it just because I'm just longing for the nostalgia of classic X-Men and, well, anyway. It looks pretty good. I like the writing and the tone. I'm going to have to look into it tomorrow.
    And, wow, Xavier's thesis in the APA paper they expelled him for is disturbing. I get a Hannibal Lecter before he was retconned into a ninja superhuman vibe off him.

    Crimsondude on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    S_D has scans of X-Men Noir #1 (Man, FUCK Diamond), and I was pretty ambivalent about it just because I'm just longing for the nostalgia of classic X-Men and, well, anyway. It looks pretty good. I like the writing and the tone. I'm going to have to look into it tomorrow.

    I'll probably pick up the hardcover if I hear it remains as good as issue 1. Besides Spider-man, what were the other Noir titles?

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Wolverine and Daredevil. And I think the next set of four, or third set of two includes a Punisher.

    Crimsondude on
  • werehippywerehippy Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Wolverine and Daredevil. And I think the next set of four, or third set of two includes a Punisher.

    And a fantastic four, though I thought that was in the first wave instead of wolverine (I might be crazy).

    werehippy on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    No, Wolverine is in the first set. Which seems kind of gratuitous.

    Crimsondude on
  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Plus the fact that Tony was part of that whole "Illuminati" thing, which still hasn't been totally revealed to everyone yet. Judging from the very last page of SI #8...
    Namor could be spilling his guts about all the shit they did.

    Regarding that last page
    I have to wonder why Doom is letting Norman dicatate terms to him. I mean, sure, Normie has snowed the average, ordinary populace of the MU's Earth into thinking he's an awesome hero, but Doom wouldn't care about that, and he definitely wouldn't tolerate some nutjob with a rubber mask fetish telling him what to do. Though I suppose they could show him objecting to this situation when/if they reveal the rest of this meeting. Also, Normie's face is weird on that page. Like a really evil, twisted version of Nixon or something.

    FCD on
    Gridman! Baby DAN DAN! Baby DAN DAN!
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Yeah, I don't see any of those people putting up with his shit.

    DouglasDanger on
    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
  • SalmonOfDoubtSalmonOfDoubt Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    FCD wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Plus the fact that Tony was part of that whole "Illuminati" thing, which still hasn't been totally revealed to everyone yet. Judging from the very last page of SI #8...
    Namor could be spilling his guts about all the shit they did.

    Regarding that last page
    I have to wonder why Doom is letting Norman dicatate terms to him. I mean, sure, Normie has snowed the average, ordinary populace of the MU's Earth into thinking he's an awesome hero, but Doom wouldn't care about that, and he definitely wouldn't tolerate some nutjob with a rubber mask fetish telling him what to do. Though I suppose they could show him objecting to this situation when/if they reveal the rest of this meeting. Also, Normie's face is weird on that page. Like a really evil, twisted version of Nixon or something.
    Every conversation I can imagine Doom and Norman having ends with Doom shouting "BEGONE, FOOL." and backhanding him.

    SalmonOfDoubt on
    heavensidesig80.jpg
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    killing children would be hilarious
    Olivaw wrote: »
    HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE PENNY ARCADE FORUMS

    PLEASE ENJOY YOUR STAY

    AND THIS PENIS
    Man, I don't want to read about this lady's broken vagina.
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I am sitting here trying to come up with a tiered system for rating child molesters.
    cock vore is fuckin hilarious
  • VirralVirral Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Sars_Boy wrote: »
    but secret invasion wasn't Tony's fault at all

    that's what pisses me off

    Um Tony was head of SHIELD. It was pretty much his job not to let bad shit like that happen, and he failed to even realise there was an issue until it was pretty much too late. His failure as head of SHIELD is why everyone is now able to dump shit all over him.

    Plus he kind of did cause it along with the rest of the illuminati when they attacked the skrulls and got themselves captured and studied. And the rest of the world doesn't even know that bit.

    Virral on
    2vlp7o9.jpg
  • SalmonOfDoubtSalmonOfDoubt Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Also remember that while Thor was ripping into Tony pretty harshly he's hardly a neutral commentator

    SalmonOfDoubt on
    heavensidesig80.jpg
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    killing children would be hilarious
    Olivaw wrote: »
    HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE PENNY ARCADE FORUMS

    PLEASE ENJOY YOUR STAY

    AND THIS PENIS
    Man, I don't want to read about this lady's broken vagina.
    NotACrook wrote: »
    I am sitting here trying to come up with a tiered system for rating child molesters.
    cock vore is fuckin hilarious
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    FCD wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Plus the fact that Tony was part of that whole "Illuminati" thing, which still hasn't been totally revealed to everyone yet. Judging from the very last page of SI #8...
    Namor could be spilling his guts about all the shit they did.

    Regarding that last page
    I have to wonder why Doom is letting Norman dicatate terms to him. I mean, sure, Normie has snowed the average, ordinary populace of the MU's Earth into thinking he's an awesome hero, but Doom wouldn't care about that, and he definitely wouldn't tolerate some nutjob with a rubber mask fetish telling him what to do. Though I suppose they could show him objecting to this situation when/if they reveal the rest of this meeting. Also, Normie's face is weird on that page. Like a really evil, twisted version of Nixon or something.
    Every conversation I can imagine Doom and Norman having ends with Doom shouting "BEGONE, FOOL." and backhanding him.
    Or deciding touching Norman is beneath him and not worth dirtying his hands by slapping him, shooting him with the Mauser he keeps on his hip.

    DouglasDanger on
    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    The regular Illuminati didn't have a leader. Why would the evil version?

    Robos A Go Go on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Because villains rarely get along? I don't know. With their personalities and whatnot, it is hard to imagine those villains even talking to each other, much less being co-conspirators.

    DouglasDanger on
    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    It makes sense to me.

    We often portray villains as being the kind that don't play well with others, sure, but there's no question that a group of powerful people are more dangerous than each on their own. Being a group requires being constructive and possibly putting others ends, needs and goals before your own, which is of course more of a "hero" thing than a villainous trait, but it'd be nice to see it done well for once.

    I have doubts though. I'll be sincerely surprised if it doesn't just become a series of plots within plots against the world, heroes and each other. Not necessarily in that order.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I just realized a funny thing about this ending: it makes the final arc of New Warriors pretty moot. I mean, the general thrust is that the team is in a possible future where Tony is a fascist running the world with an iron SHIELD fist, and Night Thrasher wants to prevent it from happening.

    wwtMask on
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  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Let's see. Doom's been cooperating with Loki, and was housing Namor and the Atlantean Army. Now he's an international fugitive because of the Venom Bomb situation so he's not in much of a position to be dictating anything to Norman, probably the only man on Earth who controls the man (Sentry) who handed Doom his ass.

    As for Emma, after what happened with the X-Men in SF I'd definitely want to hook up with her. One, she's one of the most powerful telepaths on Earth. But second, because it takes a dysfunctional pair of "heroes" to pull that trick off. Even Norman might be in awe at the balls on her and Scott, and would definitely appreciate their utter ruthlessness.

    Crimsondude on
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