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Warhammer: the Casual Amusement of Fantastical Battlefication

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Posts

  • ExarchExarch Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I just don't like special characters in general. I think they're meant for much larger games than are normally played. Like I wouldn't mind one of the more low cost guys for say a 3k point battle, but in anything smaller it just seems silly.

    The more ridiculous characters like that orc would feel more at home in 10k monster games where they can tear up a corner of the battle or get trashed by mass artillery fire.

    Exarch on
    No gods or kings, only man.
    LoL: BunyipAristocrat
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I more or less agree. I can see special characters in fucking big games, like 3-4K, leading an epic sized army that truly warrants their presence. I can't see them leading some average 2k-2250 army where they are up to or sometimes over a quarter of the points on the board. I generally see people who take them in games like that as WAAC dicks.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • General NemoGeneral Nemo The Mighty Shame Church for DogsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    WAAC?

    I think special characters at low point friendly games is just plain lazy. I mean, how hard would it have been to spend those points on a custom lord/hero that actually gives character to your army?

    Tournaments, sure, if you want to be that guy. I will one day dominate a local tourney with Mannfred myself, but that is far in the future. Casual? You're just a creatively retarded douche.

    General Nemo on
  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited June 2009
    FUCKING MANNFRED. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea? I mean, not only is he pretty sweet, he gets to buy two more arcane items with no points limit. What. The. Fuck.

    A duck! on
  • General NemoGeneral Nemo The Mighty Shame Church for DogsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    A duck! wrote: »
    FUCKING MANNFRED. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea? I mean, not only is he pretty sweet, he gets to buy two more arcane items with no points limit. What. The. Fuck.

    If I didn't like the model so much I wouldn't bother, but he is rad and amazing. He costs almost 500 points though as consolation.

    General Nemo on
  • DraevenDraeven Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I Actualy prefer lord / hero chrs kitted out the way i want. Special chrs are nice I will agree but generarly cost more then im willing to pay.

    Draeven on
    Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."

  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited June 2009
    A duck! wrote: »
    FUCKING MANNFRED. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea? I mean, not only is he pretty sweet, he gets to buy two more arcane items with no points limit. What. The. Fuck.

    If I didn't like the model so much I wouldn't bother, but he is rad and amazing. He costs almost 500 points though as consolation.

    True, he's no Teclis (same cost!), but he's T5, W5 and is set up like most powergamers would, being able to raise the good stuff past normal size, and generating 6 PD. Also, he gets +1 to his Invocation (huuuuuuuge bonus). Also also, he knows 13 spells. That's one less than Kairos!

    It's just that he's in every single VC army. I can only kill him outside of a block if I build for him, and if he's in one I don't even see the point in bothering. At this rate I'm going to make a HE army.

    A duck! on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    High Elves seem to be the "fuck you" army to everyone but Chaos, Demons, and hardcore gunlines.

    Guess we'll have to see how Skaven look, but still. And as much as people were crying about Lizardmen shortly after release, I haven't seen any lists that are just OMGRAEP, or at least any bitching about them.

    Salvation122 on
  • AlazullAlazull Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    That's because, all in all, Lizardmen are pretty fucking balanced from what I've read and heard. Nothing in the book is too over the top. Engine of the Gods is about the only thing that strikes me as being worth bitching about, but even that's pretty balanced.

    I'll reserve total judgment until I play Eterenal's Lizardmen in forthcoming battles. But my base instincts tell me this army book lacks much cheese.

    Alazull on
    User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
  • General NemoGeneral Nemo The Mighty Shame Church for DogsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I've played two 1000 point games against Lizardmen, and both had the Engine in it. The Stegadon is pretty brutal and not being able to dispel the engine effects with my dwarfs is pretty harsh.

    And then the S4 T4 2A core unit just ate up my warriors.

    General Nemo on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    WAAC?

    Win At All Costs. See Also: Warseer.

    Also, it seems like dwarfs are either going to have to get somewhat cheaper infantry or core/special troops with multi attacks. As tough as they are, I can still see them getting their shit pushed in by elite infantry that's left them way behind due to power creep.

    I really hope that the next cycle of armybooks starts with VC and Daemons and moderates the game a little. This last cycle was definitely a one-up fest.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    So.

    I'm thinking of getting back into WHFB. Up until a year or so ago, I played a lot -- but since then it has dried up to a trickle. That aggravates me. It's time to rectify things. I think I need a new army to spike my interest.

    I have a fairly sizeable Tomb Kings army, and a similarly sized Lizardmen army. I'm hoping to restart my Tomb Kings once the army is redone (next year some time, hopefully) but until then I'd prefer to leave both of these armies on the shelf.

    Things I'm looking for in an army (in this order):
    1. Entertaining playstyle
    2. An interesting challenge to master, with a decent maneuver phase
    3. The possibility of success in a fairly competitive (but not tournament) setting if I play well
    4. The ability to deal with fear-causing enemies (esp Daemons & Vampires)
    5. Something unusual, either in terms of an unpopular army, or a niche build

    Things I'm not looking for in an army:
    1. Daemons
    2. Vampires (fully half of the armies at my LGS are one of these two armies)

    So... I don't know what I'm looking for. Warriors of Chaos? Wood elves? Any thoughts? Any weird builds that I could try out?

    GrimmyTOA on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    The things you listed actually describe Ogres really well, but it's just soooo hard to recommend anyone start an Ogre army right now.

    Ogres have a fun play style in that they throw a very few models with a large number of attacks and wounds into combats.
    They're a challenge to master because they don't play like any other army. They only really work as an MSU army that sets up a lot of flank charges, which is a difficult skill for new players and still no easy task for long time players.
    They have a good movement phase in that almost the entire army moves 6+.
    Possibility of success.... Yeah, this is where they can fall short. An Irongut heavy MSU army can win, but it really depends on who you're facing.
    Deal with fear causing - Ogres cause fear themselves, no sweat from daemons or undead.
    Unusual - Probably the most unusual army in the game. Certainly the only one to be made up almost entirely of 40 mm models. They are probably the most hated army in the game, so they certainly win from an unpopularity standpoint. You don't see them on the table practically ever.

    Unfortunately, the big problem with them is that they're just plain weak as fuck right now. There is 1 cookie cutter build that can sometimes hold it's own against some armies, but for the most part, it's a huge undertaking just to scrape out a draw with them. They've just been left so far behind in the power creep it's not funny anymore. If you can gut it out (see wut i did thar) for another year or two, maybe the new book will fix 'em up.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Erandus wrote: »
    The things you listed actually describe Ogres really well, but it's just soooo hard to recommend anyone start an Ogre army right now.

    Yeah, they had occurred to me. But... well... Ogres. D:

    GrimmyTOA on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I've said this a dozen times on this board, but again... I really love the army. I think its a great idea and there's lots of potential, and they can win even in their current form.. Its just really hard to recommend them right now.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Well, let's talk Ogres for a bit then. Like I said, I enjoy a challenge. I've basically seen three types of Ogre army.

    1) The standard MSU Bulls and Ironguts charging across the table and usually getting slaughtered as soon as they're denied their impact hits. Usually backed up by a hunter or a scraplauncher -- or both.
    2) The gigantic Death Star of Ironguts with a Tyrant (or something) that rockets around the table smashing everything it touches (but being unable to catch anything else).
    3) The Forgeworld-centric Rhinox and special characters fiesta.

    Am I missing a build? Am I just playing against people who aren't using the best tactics? If I were to start an OK army, how would I go about giving myself a chance to win?

    GrimmyTOA on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Option 1 is the correct building block of a successful Ogre list, though you've got a couple things off.

    #1, if you charge straight across the table and straight into combat, you'll lose and deserve to. MSU must flank in order to win. This is the antithesis of the Ogre Death Star where the 1 unit you charge, you will skullfuck, but then you'll get flanked by the dozens of units that outnumber you, and you're boned. If you send 1 unit of 3-4 Ogres into a frontal charge against ranked infantry, you'll lose every time. If you flank, you almost don't have to roll any dice to win the combat.

    #2, no hunters. I would rather have a BSB Bruiser over a hunter. I would rather have a Butcher over both. A 2k-2250 list should be headed by a Tyrant and 3 butchers. I personally have no problem with the scraplauncher, and I actually often take it to break up the monotony of Ironguts. Occasionally the thing actually produces with it's scrap shots - I once had it KB my opponents Bret Lord and Damsel along with a normal kill of one other Knight in the lance they were in, which panicked the unit and it fled off the board. That was turn 1 and he instantly gave up like 500 vps. Finally, the thing is honestly pretty scary on the charge, and the fact that it is US 6 and is basically a chariot that can deny rank bonus is often ignored.

    The best chance to win with an Ogre army goes something like:

    Tyrant w/ Tenderiser & Wyrdstone
    3 Butchers, bangstick, skullmantle, dispel scrolls.
    2x2 Leadbelchers to protect your fanks/rear from flyers and skirmishers.
    2 Gorgers
    8-10 trappers
    Spend the rest of your points on Bulls & Ironguts, roughly a 2:3 ratio of bulls:guts.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I'm totally biased but I don't think Grimgor is that bad at all. I mean, yeah he's mean, but he's not super-beardy.

    Dread Pirate Arbuthnot on
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Erandus wrote: »
    They've just been left so far behind in the power creep it's not funny anymore. If you can gut it out (see wut i did thar) for another year or two, maybe the new book will fix 'em up.

    I just saw what you did there, and figured that I should give credit where credit is due.

    Terrible. Terrible terrible terrible.

    EDIT: Also, assuming that I do start playing again -- is there any sort of a gaming community in Toronto (ON)? I only ever played when I lived elsewhere.

    GrimmyTOA on
  • AlazullAlazull Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I'm totally biased but I don't think Grimgor is that bad at all. I mean, yeah he's mean, but he's not super-beardy.

    I can kill him pretty easily with my Dwarf Lord set-up, and if you want to go Special Character vs. Special Character High King Thorgrim Grudgebearers is the immovable object against his unstoppable force.

    Alazull on
    User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    GrimmyTOA wrote: »
    Erandus wrote: »
    They've just been left so far behind in the power creep it's not funny anymore. If you can gut it out (see wut i did thar) for another year or two, maybe the new book will fix 'em up.

    I just saw what you did there, and figured that I should give credit where credit is due.

    Terrible. Terrible terrible terrible.

    EDIT: Also, assuming that I do start playing again -- is there any sort of a gaming community in Toronto (ON)? I only ever played when I lived elsewhere.

    !!!

    A Toronto fantasy player?!

    Do you live near Scarborough or closer to Downtown

    Dread Pirate Arbuthnot on
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I live right downtown. A stone's throw from the Eaton Centre.

    GrimmyTOA on
  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    GrimmyTOA wrote: »
    I live right downtown. A stone's throw from the Eaton Centre.

    Goodness, there actually used to be a GW store inside the Eaton's Centre proper but they moved it to near Lawrence Station. Then there's a GW store in the Scarborough Town Center.

    Dread Pirate Arbuthnot on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    The closest GW store to me is so far away I don't even know what state it's in. I think maybe Chicago? Which is like 5+ hours from here.

    People who live a few minutes from more than one can eat a dick. I've never even seen a GW store, much less had my pick of multiple ones.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CounterspinCounterspin Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I live in Austin,TX. I think it's three hours to the nearest store in Houston. Additionally, I love how the store locator doesn't go beyond 100 miles despite the fact that a huge percentage of their base lives outside that range of a GW. Additional menu items are hard.

    There are six official GW stores in Houston, but none in Austin, the location of the largest university in the western hemisphere. This makes no sense. Though I reckon that Battleforge and Dragon's Lair, among others in town, would stomp them pretty good. We have some nice retailers here.

    Counterspin on
  • General NemoGeneral Nemo The Mighty Shame Church for DogsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I've never been to a GW store. The nearest one is probablt 2 hours north of here in Phoenix, if there is one at all.

    General Nemo on
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    GrimmyTOA wrote: »
    I live right downtown. A stone's throw from the Eaton Centre.

    Goodness, there actually used to be a GW store inside the Eaton's Centre proper but they moved it to near Lawrence Station. Then there's a GW store in the Scarborough Town Center.

    I've been up to the Lawrence GW once or twice.... there doesn't seem to be much fantasy going on up there. I didn't go on a Friday, though -- the staffers said that I might have more luck then. The guy didn't look particularly convinced by his own words, though.

    GrimmyTOA on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    These goddamn kids today with their goddamn 40G and their goddamn Marine Wolfs.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Erandus wrote: »
    These goddamn kids today with their goddamn 40G and their goddamn Marine Wolfs.

    Pretty much. And LotR. LotR. Seriously.

    GrimmyTOA on
  • JackmodeJackmode Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Erandus wrote: »
    People who live a few minutes from more than one can eat a dick. I've never even seen a GW store, much less had my pick of multiple ones.

    I concur. They can eat a dick. Or a bowl of dicks. Or a whole bag of dicks. There are no GW stores in Oregon, and nearest one to me now is in the bay area. Won't be going down there any time soon.

    :(

    On a side note, I just found out that there might be a gaming group here in Humboldt County. I'll have to look into that!

    Jackmode on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • EterenalEterenal Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Erandus wrote: »
    People who live a few minutes from more than one can eat a dick. I've never even seen a GW store, much less had my pick of multiple ones.

    I live within 100 miles of 6 GW stores, and probably 15 miles to three. That being said I've only played about five games in GW stores because they're full of raving little kids who play 40k and couldn't give a shit that you got to the gaming table first. "Are you guys done yet? Are you done yet? Hey, I play Space Marines, do you play 40k?"

    Fuck kids.

    Eterenal on
  • General NemoGeneral Nemo The Mighty Shame Church for DogsRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    "HEY I PLAY SPACE MARINES"

    General Nemo on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    That might be the single biggest thing that turns me off about 40k.

    EDIT: The way it draws a much younger/more immature crowd. Not Space Marines.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AlazullAlazull Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    All ye little 40k players can blow me cock.

    Alazull on
    User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
  • DraevenDraeven Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    How does one go about eating a bag of dicks really? anyways, yes we are lucky that there are a couple LGS with in 30 mins of us or centeral iowa would be the south side of hell for gaming.

    Draeven on
    Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."

  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Draeven wrote: »
    How does one go about eating a bag of dicks really?

    morral.jpg

    Imagine this has dicks in it.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    How did I double post? I hit 'edit', i swear I did.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DraevenDraeven Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    See, this shit, this shit right here is why we can't have nice things. Fucking killing the thread and such.

    Draeven on
    Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."

  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited June 2009
    Yeah, way to go. Now I'm hungry for dicks. On top of that, you honestly suggested OK to someone when DE fit just as many criteria, including the "can I win with this?" part.

    A duck! on
  • DraevenDraeven Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Erandus hates the DE , since they actualy make his Chaos cry tears of blood. He has removed the head of a few horses at the behest of my hydra :D

    Draeven on
    Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."

This discussion has been closed.