Yeah, when Brehmin has his up and running (Deus Ex kicks ass btw.) I will jump in for the next slot when we have one open with all permission from the main host of course.
Just as a reminder, the Deus Ex mini will start tonight immediately after the narration for the Unknown Armies main. I wont be accepting people still alive in another CF phalla unless I can't fill all the slots otherwise.
First narration will be tomorrow night. If slots fill up quickly enough, I'll send out roles considerably early so people can get organized/make proboards/form plans.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Just as a reminder, the Deus Ex mini will start tonight immediately after the narration for the Unknown Armies main. I wont be accepting people still alive in another CF phalla unless I can't fill all the slots otherwise.
First narration will be tomorrow night. If slots fill up quickly enough, I'll send out roles considerably early so people can get organized/make proboards/form plans.
I'm pretty sure if I don't die tonight in Unknown Armies, I will withdraw to play in Deus Ex.
Therefore I think your "you can't be alive in another phalla" rule is dumb. I would rather play in Deus Ex than most themes in the last 20 phallas.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
presumably I've been skipped a few times, but I actually am still working on something.
Although the Veronica Mars one will probably have to wait, as what I have in mind is fairly complex and I'd probably kill myself trying to run it as my first phalla.
Man, you have no idea. Go for the complex one the first time. I was worried about that with the Dresden Phalla, and despite all the complications, i'm having a blast.
Don't do that. Unless you have a very solid foundation in GAME THEORY, do something relatively simple for your first time hosting. Use the time to get used to the experience of spreadsheeting, writing narrations in a timely manner, answering clarifications, and learn the logistics of it. Having to deal with both that *and* the possibility of a hilariously unbalanced and unfun game is likely to end poorly.
Just as a reminder, the Deus Ex mini will start tonight immediately after the narration for the Unknown Armies main. I wont be accepting people still alive in another CF phalla unless I can't fill all the slots otherwise.
First narration will be tomorrow night. If slots fill up quickly enough, I'll send out roles considerably early so people can get organized/make proboards/form plans.
I'm pretty sure if I don't die tonight in Unknown Armies, I will withdraw to play in Deus Ex.
Therefore I think your "you can't be alive in another phalla" rule is dumb. I would rather play in Deus Ex than most themes in the last 20 phallas.
That's pretty goddamn lame if you actually did that, Sugar Water. If I were the host of UA, I'd rightly permagrudge you for that.
I'm just posing a hypothetical argument of why preventing people from playing in a mini of a theme they like is dumb.
Which I think was originally suggested when someone was talking about restricting sign ups to people that are dead or not playing in the main.
When have I ever had a problem with activity in 3 games at once?
It's not about worrying about player activity (partially, but not really).
it's more about the people that don't have a game to play in at the moment, who have 0 games even though some people have spots in 3, because they post faster.
I'm just posing a hypothetical argument of why preventing people from playing in a mini of a theme they like is dumb.
Which I think was originally suggested when someone was talking about restricting sign ups to people that are dead or not playing in the main.
When have I ever had a problem with activity in 3 games at once?
Those are his rules, there should be no exceptions. It was already talked about as being possible before signups started for the running games, IIRC. Either way, just because a couple people are paragons of activity, doesn't mean they should get exempted from it for consistency's sake. You open up a whole goddamn can of worms for people saying "why don't you think *I'm* active enough across multiple games" and he shouldn't have to (and probably doesn't want to) deal with that if he moves forward with his plan.
EDIT: What Rend says is also true. There are plenty of reserves I've noted in the past few games of vets coming back and trying to get in but failing to make it in time due to the Usual People sniping spots instantly.
Because jesus fuck, check your numbers people. A mini is not a means for you to bypass the hosting list for mains. If you're not going to respect the nature of the minis then don't bother in the first place imo.
I'm just posing a hypothetical argument of why preventing people from playing in a mini of a theme they like is dumb.
Which I think was originally suggested when someone was talking about restricting sign ups to people that are dead or not playing in the main.
When have I ever had a problem with activity in 3 games at once?
It's not about worrying about player activity (partially, but not really).
it's more about the people that don't have a game to play in at the moment, who have 0 games even though some people have spots in 3, because they post faster.
No, actually it really is because of activity. Exarch states that his main saw a dramatic drop in activity when a mini started, and so I offered to restrict mine to dead players. I have flattered myself that maybe that was the reason several people seem to be trying to get killed in Unknown Armies, though.
There's currently 3 mains going on, so I don't think a lack of spots is a problem.
To try to soften the blow, though, I'm making this special offer: If anyone who is still alive in another phalla wants, they can claim a special reserve slot that will become active as soon as they die in their other game. And I demand fairly high standards of activity, so I expect to be doing a fair amount of replacing.
Edit: Oh, you guys better not. I already have the 32 roles written. I thought mini was around 30 and main was 50+?
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Dac VinS-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC!Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
The highest I can tolerate is thirty, and even then that limit should be reserved for things that are truly exceptional (For example, I don't mind 30 if the day bodycount is really fucking high) - otherwise 20-25 is the what people should aim for.
Same thing for time - aim for 4-5 days, maximum 7 days. If it goes farther than that, either you got VERY unlucky and you had a problem of superhuman guard skills and kills overlapping, or more simply there is something wrong with your mini.
We have to draw a line because otherwise the "minis" are going to be effectively full games and it's entirely disrespectful to people that have been waiting upwards of a year to run theirs.
Infidel popping in to repeat the same thing he does every time this comes up, god dammit.
4-6 days, that's a mini. If you have more than 30, your death toll mechanics are probably too random or unbalanced to make a good game out of it, and 25 is a good player count for a mini, trust us.
People step around on eggshells here when it comes to Phalla, except it seems on allowing mini's to drag out bit by bit which is a real issue we need to avoid. We have one main game and a few mini games allowed, if you start skewing the lines then you are breaking one of the few hard rules in place for Phalla and I don't want us getting owned over it.
Just put it in the OP or something already because things are getting out of hand.
I know the wiki was kind of meant to do this, but we could really use some form of "hosting 101". This isn't meant to be patronising, either; I've made my fair share of hosting fuck-ups that could have been alleviated by having a guideline to follow.
I ran the numbers for mine several times, and I got 5-10 days. Outside chance of earlier, outside chance of later. Apologies that this is too long, I really wasn't aware of the standards.
This is mostly an inescapable result of the special mechanics I'm using, though.
God bless games without guards.... at least they almost always end when they are supposed to.
No guards or unblockable kills, and "if someone is targeted for a kill, their 2nd kill is randomly re-directed" may be a good idea for an upcoming phalla >.>
I ran the numbers for mine several times, and I got 5-10 days. Outside chance of earlier, outside chance of later. Apologies that this is too long, I really wasn't aware of the standards.
This is mostly an inescapable result of the special mechanics I'm using, though.
That's a really long mini -- and I don't just mean from a Board Standards point of view. When minis go on that long... well, they tend to drag. By day seven or so there probably won't be much going on in the thread, I'm afraid.
Also, on an unrelated topic:
I've been thinking about the inactivity problem, and various ways to combat it (beyond Inactivusating people). The standard MO for decreasing inactivity seems to be to hand out special roles to as many people as possible, which works -- up to a point. People remain engaged in the game, but the main thread often withers away. When everyone in the game is a special, the whole game suffers from the 'specials keeping their heads down' syndrome. The net result is that you end up with a very quiet main thread and a good deal of the activity going on in the background.
The other issue I'm trying to wrangle with is the Epic Reveal. I don't feel like they add that much to the game -- beyond allowing the Revealer to make a pretty, pretty post. I don't want to simply start killing off revealers (Julius Caezure style), but I don't want them doing their dirty business in my Phallae, either.
So.
I'm starting to think that a possible solution would be to run some bare-bones Phallae. Fewer specials means that the village has fewer tools and every individual villager has less of a pressing desire to survive the game, and more incentive to talk things out. You force people to come out and talk in the thread, without arbitrarily raising posting limits. I'm also considering running a game wherein the village has an extra seer or vig, but no guard -- to prevent the epic reveal. Alternately, giving the mafia a single unblockable kill for the game.
I'm not sure. Any thoughts?
Sorry for the rambling, potentially disjointed nature of this post. I was being continuously interrupted.
I'm starting to think that a possible solution would be to run some bare-bones Phallae.
I'm a fan of extra things to do in the main thread - an extra vote, perhaps - but I would heartily support some basic games being run. I think we're beginning to suffer from "extra mechanic" burnout.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
I fondly remember how robothero's silence phalla had no posts that weren't votes in the whole game thread, and there was an insane amount of stuff going behind the scenes. That pretty much forced players to get active if they want their faction to win, especially the specials.
I find it's more fun to play as a vanillager if they are given more to vote on than just the mob kill vote.
More votes is a good thing! Thats why in particular I enjoy games that involve elected specials.
also, while it's a tricky mechanic to make work, stuff with movement can be fun. Like Exarch's recent Bioshock Phalla, or - I honestly don't remember who ran this one, but there was a Haunted House Phalla a while back that let the village vote on which room they wanted to spend the next day in, and the rooms affected mechanics and roles in certain ways.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
This is probably best taken to the Lounge, but briefly:
If you play around with/change the role numbers people expect in order to accomplish limiting epic reveals, MAKE SURE YOUR PLAYERS KNOW THIS AHEAD OF TIME. Seeing someone epic reveal then get vigged because there was no guard is likely to cause a great deal of frustration.
Vanilla games are fine; to be honest with the past few minis a relatively vanilla one would be welcome, but keep in mind that the village needs to know these things up front so they don't count on "olol network saves the day" once again.
Take a look at Phalla King and Touhou for two recent examples. In the former, the talkative players were killed by the mafia very early and none of the villagers stepped up to do anything, so the mafia led the village around by the nose to a nearly perfect victory. In the latter, people were still doing *something*, so the village was able to gut it out for the win.
I don't know how much you can do about villagers wanting to survive, though. Some people are just bad.
On preview: YES to extra votes. One of the things that helps the village/raises activity is ALWAYS an extra vote or some kind. It effectively doubles the voting records you get per day once it's publicly established what the votes are doing.
The village should never count on "olol network saves the day" because that's stupid.
It's like saying "Here's a list of 30 eligible players. Now here's the list of the ten of them who play the game!"
No. Under no circumstances, powerful network or not, should any villager EVER rely on the network to do anything. Ever. That's a custom built recipe for village destruction.
I had several ideas for mafia games to try to increase villager enjoyment, and one of them was a Eureka game with a boatload of different votes.
One vote for getting jailed (kill), one vote for role blocker, one double vote for a mind swapping device (power swap), one vote for a power intensifier, and a few more that don't spring immediately to mind. That might have been too much of a good thing though
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Well, if you see the network is constantly leading the village in the right direction, that's not really a bad thing. But relying on them without a backup plan, that's only going to end badly when(not if) the mafia eventually obliterate it.
The village should never count on "olol network saves the day" because that's stupid.
It's like saying "Here's a list of 30 eligible players. Now here's the list of the ten of them who play the game!"
No. Under no circumstances, powerful network or not, should any villager EVER rely on the network to do anything. Ever. That's a custom built recipe for village destruction.
But in a lot of phalla games the village doesn't have a choice. If the Mafia gets 3 kills, for instance, and the vote is 1, you could end up with a situation where the village could vote out a mafia every night and still lose.
That's why I firmly believe that the vote should always be the main weapon/ability of the "good" side.
Well, if you see the network is constantly leading the village in the right direction, that's not really a bad thing. But relying on them without a backup plan, that's only going to end badly when(not if) the mafia eventually obliterate it.
I like the idea of more vote for extra actions. Have a skeleton game and votes to give a villager a known special power that occurs before all other actions except the vote.
Posts
Too complicated? Or good times?
Steam
First narration will be tomorrow night. If slots fill up quickly enough, I'll send out roles considerably early so people can get organized/make proboards/form plans.
Look at my Vampire mini.
technically.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
I can't hear you over how terrible that was!
I thought it was pretty great and in-theme, especially the Ricean infighting.
I'm pretty sure if I don't die tonight in Unknown Armies, I will withdraw to play in Deus Ex.
Therefore I think your "you can't be alive in another phalla" rule is dumb. I would rather play in Deus Ex than most themes in the last 20 phallas.
That's pretty goddamn lame if you actually did that, Sugar Water. If I were the host of UA, I'd rightly permagrudge you for that.
Which I think was originally suggested when someone was talking about restricting sign ups to people that are dead or not playing in the main.
When have I ever had a problem with activity in 3 games at once?
It's not about worrying about player activity (partially, but not really).
it's more about the people that don't have a game to play in at the moment, who have 0 games even though some people have spots in 3, because they post faster.
EDIT: What Rend says is also true. There are plenty of reserves I've noted in the past few games of vets coming back and trying to get in but failing to make it in time due to the Usual People sniping spots instantly.
Because jesus fuck, check your numbers people. A mini is not a means for you to bypass the hosting list for mains. If you're not going to respect the nature of the minis then don't bother in the first place imo.
No, actually it really is because of activity. Exarch states that his main saw a dramatic drop in activity when a mini started, and so I offered to restrict mine to dead players. I have flattered myself that maybe that was the reason several people seem to be trying to get killed in Unknown Armies, though.
There's currently 3 mains going on, so I don't think a lack of spots is a problem.
To try to soften the blow, though, I'm making this special offer: If anyone who is still alive in another phalla wants, they can claim a special reserve slot that will become active as soon as they die in their other game. And I demand fairly high standards of activity, so I expect to be doing a fair amount of replacing.
Edit: Oh, you guys better not. I already have the 32 roles written. I thought mini was around 30 and main was 50+?
Same thing for time - aim for 4-5 days, maximum 7 days. If it goes farther than that, either you got VERY unlucky and you had a problem of superhuman guard skills and kills overlapping, or more simply there is something wrong with your mini.
Just put it in the OP or something already because things are getting out of hand.
This is mostly an inescapable result of the special mechanics I'm using, though.
No guards or unblockable kills, and "if someone is targeted for a kill, their 2nd kill is randomly re-directed" may be a good idea for an upcoming phalla >.>
That's a really long mini -- and I don't just mean from a Board Standards point of view. When minis go on that long... well, they tend to drag. By day seven or so there probably won't be much going on in the thread, I'm afraid.
Also, on an unrelated topic:
I've been thinking about the inactivity problem, and various ways to combat it (beyond Inactivusating people). The standard MO for decreasing inactivity seems to be to hand out special roles to as many people as possible, which works -- up to a point. People remain engaged in the game, but the main thread often withers away. When everyone in the game is a special, the whole game suffers from the 'specials keeping their heads down' syndrome. The net result is that you end up with a very quiet main thread and a good deal of the activity going on in the background.
The other issue I'm trying to wrangle with is the Epic Reveal. I don't feel like they add that much to the game -- beyond allowing the Revealer to make a pretty, pretty post. I don't want to simply start killing off revealers (Julius Caezure style), but I don't want them doing their dirty business in my Phallae, either.
So.
I'm starting to think that a possible solution would be to run some bare-bones Phallae. Fewer specials means that the village has fewer tools and every individual villager has less of a pressing desire to survive the game, and more incentive to talk things out. You force people to come out and talk in the thread, without arbitrarily raising posting limits. I'm also considering running a game wherein the village has an extra seer or vig, but no guard -- to prevent the epic reveal. Alternately, giving the mafia a single unblockable kill for the game.
I'm not sure. Any thoughts?
Sorry for the rambling, potentially disjointed nature of this post. I was being continuously interrupted.
More votes is a good thing! Thats why in particular I enjoy games that involve elected specials.
I'm a fan of extra things to do in the main thread - an extra vote, perhaps - but I would heartily support some basic games being run. I think we're beginning to suffer from "extra mechanic" burnout.
also, while it's a tricky mechanic to make work, stuff with movement can be fun. Like Exarch's recent Bioshock Phalla, or - I honestly don't remember who ran this one, but there was a Haunted House Phalla a while back that let the village vote on which room they wanted to spend the next day in, and the rooms affected mechanics and roles in certain ways.
If you play around with/change the role numbers people expect in order to accomplish limiting epic reveals, MAKE SURE YOUR PLAYERS KNOW THIS AHEAD OF TIME. Seeing someone epic reveal then get vigged because there was no guard is likely to cause a great deal of frustration.
Vanilla games are fine; to be honest with the past few minis a relatively vanilla one would be welcome, but keep in mind that the village needs to know these things up front so they don't count on "olol network saves the day" once again.
Take a look at Phalla King and Touhou for two recent examples. In the former, the talkative players were killed by the mafia very early and none of the villagers stepped up to do anything, so the mafia led the village around by the nose to a nearly perfect victory. In the latter, people were still doing *something*, so the village was able to gut it out for the win.
I don't know how much you can do about villagers wanting to survive, though. Some people are just bad.
On preview: YES to extra votes. One of the things that helps the village/raises activity is ALWAYS an extra vote or some kind. It effectively doubles the voting records you get per day once it's publicly established what the votes are doing.
It's like saying "Here's a list of 30 eligible players. Now here's the list of the ten of them who play the game!"
No. Under no circumstances, powerful network or not, should any villager EVER rely on the network to do anything. Ever. That's a custom built recipe for village destruction.
One vote for getting jailed (kill), one vote for role blocker, one double vote for a mind swapping device (power swap), one vote for a power intensifier, and a few more that don't spring immediately to mind. That might have been too much of a good thing though
Now if you see a 'network head' constantly giving leads that go nowhere, something is wrong.
But in a lot of phalla games the village doesn't have a choice. If the Mafia gets 3 kills, for instance, and the vote is 1, you could end up with a situation where the village could vote out a mafia every night and still lose.
That's why I firmly believe that the vote should always be the main weapon/ability of the "good" side.
God bless Mundane Soul :P
edit:
I like the idea of more vote for extra actions. Have a skeleton game and votes to give a villager a known special power that occurs before all other actions except the vote.