From what I've seen its slightly lower, but actually competitive with fury, but both are way low in comparison to most other hybrid classes. This is just glancing at WWS logs from known guilds on the wow forums, EJs doesn't have theorycraft for Arms and the Fury is unfinished for 3.1.
Why would you take Puncture in a leveling build? SA is pretty meh-tastic as far as leveling goes, and by the time you reach Devastate you already have Focused Rage. Only talent I can maybe see taking for leveling and not endgame is Imp SR, just because casters are a pain at low gear levels.
Good news - Puncture and FR stack, and it's helpful while leveling to have cheap devastates to fish for SaB procs. You're not always swimming in rage while leveling as prot.
I wouldn't really bother with avoidance talents while leveling either.
I've been leveling as prot, and I've never found myself hurting for rage. FR is more than you need while leveling unless you plan on spamming HS, which is pretty pointless while soloing. The avoidance talents may not be all that hot while leveling, but they still amount to less downtime and more reliable Revenge procs, which I take over lowering the cost of an already cheap ability.
Why would you take Puncture in a leveling build? SA is pretty meh-tastic as far as leveling goes, and by the time you reach Devastate you already have Focused Rage. Only talent I can maybe see taking for leveling and not endgame is Imp SR, just because casters are a pain at low gear levels.
Good news - Puncture and FR stack, and it's helpful while leveling to have cheap devastates to fish for SaB procs. You're not always swimming in rage while leveling as prot.
I wouldn't really bother with avoidance talents while leveling either.
I've been leveling as prot, and I've never found myself hurting for rage. FR is more than you need while leveling unless you plan on spamming HS, which is pretty pointless while soloing. The avoidance talents may not be all that hot while leveling, but they still amount to less downtime and more reliable Revenge procs, which I take over lowering the cost of an already cheap ability.
That and devastate/sunder typically being the last thing you want to use. Practically every ability you have should be higher priority, and will benefit from FR as well.
Iroh on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Why would you take Puncture in a leveling build? SA is pretty meh-tastic as far as leveling goes, and by the time you reach Devastate you already have Focused Rage. Only talent I can maybe see taking for leveling and not endgame is Imp SR, just because casters are a pain at low gear levels.
Good news - Puncture and FR stack, and it's helpful while leveling to have cheap devastates to fish for SaB procs. You're not always swimming in rage while leveling as prot.
I wouldn't really bother with avoidance talents while leveling either.
Imp SR is a group talent, and thus largely useless soloing.
Why would you take Puncture in a leveling build? SA is pretty meh-tastic as far as leveling goes, and by the time you reach Devastate you already have Focused Rage. Only talent I can maybe see taking for leveling and not endgame is Imp SR, just because casters are a pain at low gear levels.
9 rage Devastates are very nice for levelling, as you use it a lot more than you do when tanking.
Say in a fight like Saph, where you're the OT but no OT is necessary. What is the best strat for getting some decent DPS? DWing and Dev/Whirl/HS spamming or sticking with your 1H/S and Dev/Shield Slam/HS spamming?
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
assuming of course you go DPS as your dual spec
which i think i won't.
"What to wear when I'm not tanking anything" is really only an issue if you're not tanking all of the time (i.e, not the main tank). If you're not tanking all the time, why would you use dual spec for two tank specs? Seems like a waste.
Colossal Reaver drops for the second day in a row and I hit the fucking X on the roll window by mistake. Fucking Paladin wins with a 63. I could have beaten that.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
Colossal Reaver drops for the second day in a row and I hit the fucking X on the roll window by mistake. Fucking Paladin wins with a 63. I could have beaten that.
For some reason neither google nor wowhead is giving me any results for this. What's the Colossal Reaver?
assuming of course you go DPS as your dual spec
which i think i won't.
"What to wear when I'm not tanking anything" is really only an issue if you're not tanking all of the time (i.e, not the main tank). If you're not tanking all the time, why would you use dual spec for two tank specs? Seems like a waste.
If we're talking about alternative prot specs for the dual system, I wonder how viable a Bloodthirst Prot build could be. Go down to Bloodthirst, then the rest all in Prot, so you (hopefully) create the ultimate solo build for old world heroics/raids or just any general elite. The idea being getting the healing power from Bloodthirst with the crazy survivability of Prot and tank gear. I've come close to soloing a few BC heroics, but I fail because I just run out of self healing. Maybe Bloodthirst could balance the scales, or even tip them all the way back.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Bloodthirst/Prot is indeed pretty great for soloing old raid/group content and grinding. Basically useless as soon as you're playing with someone else, though.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Well, for soloing you're at a massive advantage as prot...in my tank gear, I've solo'd every Northrend elite with only one exception (the final boss of the Riders of Frost, Unholy, and Blood quest chain in icecrown).
I managed to solo the Frost one as prot, but had to bring along help for the other ones. BT/Prot brings a certain longevity lacking in a pure prot build, though, which helps take down stuff that has a ton of health and brings magic damage to the table.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I got all 3, but it was done in my full BiS tank gear, and only barely. The quest after it, Bloodbane, I think his name is, I was completely fucked over by.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
Bloodthirst/prot + BT glyph really is powerful for soloing content. All of my gear except for my T7 chest is from heroics or worse (though I got that from badges, so technically all of it is) and the three riders were almost trivial.
I tried the last guy just now and the first two times I only knocked ~80k off his health before I had to run away, but with the Fate Runes from the bone lady and a food buff I got him down to 142k/422k. I would've had him if it weren't for the shadow buff he puts on his sword which does shadow damage ever time it hits you.
I got all 3, but it was done in my full BiS tank gear, and only barely. The quest after it, Bloodbane, I think his name is, I was completely fucked over by.
Yeah, I was doing those quests maybe a few days after hitting 80. Ended up snagging a ret paladin friend and duoing the shit out of every group quest in the zone, though.
70 at the latest, though you have all the important prot talents at 60 so maybe around then?
10.
No, seriously. I did it. It's somewhat slower than fury/arms, obviously, but not by that much as long as you pick up the Revenge glyph as soon as possible, and you'll just tear through quests. There's almost no downtime, no enemies that you can't solo, and dungeons are of course no problem. I never once found myself thinking about switching specs.
I almost wish I could restart and level up again, just to see how all the changes warriors have gotten over the years have helped. I still remember just how much of a fucking pain in the ass it was. Doubly so whenever I would roll an alt and marvel at how easy every other class had things.
-The need to carry an entire bag full of food and bandages, because you will be downing them like a crack addict.
-Any monster 3 or more levels above you would kick your ass because you'll now have a 90% miss rate on everything.
-On a related note, any group of 3 or more monsters would also destroy you. Escort quests became hell because the M.O would be to spawn 3+ on you. Usually twice, so forget using your 30m ability to save you.
God things are so much better now. I went Prot back when the WOTLK talents first hit and never looked back. Grabbing a group of 5 or more monsters, taking them down in about 1 minute, and doing so with over 80% health... you can't buy that level of happiness.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I levelled my warrior without First Aid. He still doesn't have it to this day.
To be fair however, he only went from 1-20 early in 07...I didn't touch him again until around 3rd quarter 08 when i started the trek to 70 on him.
Been a very long time since I leveled my warrior up to 60... back almost before blackwing lair. Definitely before AQ. When leveling, I always kept a bag of tricks on me, things like invisibility potions, food, bandages, blacksmith keys, maybe a couple of those nets you used to be able to farm off the defias... God, it's been awhile. These young whippersnappers don't know what leveling is like.
When I leveled my warrior in September, I leveled prot from like 10-~35. There are no instant attacks available to warriors except for Revenge, so Prot made the most sense. When I got whirlwind in the mid 30s, I switched to Fury, then I hit 40, got my Axe and went to Arms. I leveled Arms (got the epic ZF sword in the process) until 58-59ish which is when 3.0 hit and went Prot from that point forward.
the only thing Retaliation being a 5 min cooldown does for me is that I can not-use it more often.
Its really a terrible skill. Though I suppose it has its uses pre-zerker stance.
What's it like now, again? Back in the day, it was the oh-shit button.
It's the same as before except the duration is shorter and they either added a limit to the number of attacks or the limit is lower I forget which. Regardless it's decent if you have multiple mobs attacking you for solo pve.
khain on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
It has a limit to the number of attacks that can proc it.
its decent fighting a bunch of mobs, but if you're up against a bunch of mobs, you'll want to be in Berserker stance for Whirlwind, and you won't be able to use Retaliation anyway.
If you're leveling as arms, I'm not sure why you'd stay in zerker stance considering half the tree at that point is based around buffing Overpower, which isn't usable in berserker stance. On my warrior I don't think I ever entered zerker stance except to set up the bar and use the rage once in a while.
edit: You can still stance dance to have retaliation up while in berserker stance for WW.
I think it's hard for someone not to rage at mario kart, while shouting "Fuck you Donkey Kong. Whose dick did you suck to get all those red shells?"
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I just dislike Arms because the rage generation at low levels when you have so little +hit is so streaky. Sometimes you get a ton of rage and can flatten an opponent, other times you get fuck-all and autoattack them to death.
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I've been leveling as prot, and I've never found myself hurting for rage. FR is more than you need while leveling unless you plan on spamming HS, which is pretty pointless while soloing. The avoidance talents may not be all that hot while leveling, but they still amount to less downtime and more reliable Revenge procs, which I take over lowering the cost of an already cheap ability.
Imp SR is a group talent, and thus largely useless soloing.
9 rage Devastates are very nice for levelling, as you use it a lot more than you do when tanking.
Say in a fight like Saph, where you're the OT but no OT is necessary. What is the best strat for getting some decent DPS? DWing and Dev/Whirl/HS spamming or sticking with your 1H/S and Dev/Shield Slam/HS spamming?
Though this is irrelevant in a few weeks anyway.
which i think i won't.
"What to wear when I'm not tanking anything" is really only an issue if you're not tanking all of the time (i.e, not the main tank). If you're not tanking all the time, why would you use dual spec for two tank specs? Seems like a waste.
Colossal Reaver drops for the second day in a row and I hit the fucking X on the roll window by mistake. Fucking Paladin wins with a 63. I could have beaten that.
For some reason neither google nor wowhead is giving me any results for this. What's the Colossal Reaver?
Drops off of Heroic Loken.
70 at the latest, though you have all the important prot talents at 60 so maybe around then?
Utility spec. Alternate glyphs, utility talents.
Either that, or PvProt.
I tried the last guy just now and the first two times I only knocked ~80k off his health before I had to run away, but with the Fate Runes from the bone lady and a food buff I got him down to 142k/422k. I would've had him if it weren't for the shadow buff he puts on his sword which does shadow damage ever time it hits you.
Yeah, I was doing those quests maybe a few days after hitting 80. Ended up snagging a ret paladin friend and duoing the shit out of every group quest in the zone, though.
lol @ PvProt warriors and paladins.
What a well thought out and argued perspective.
10.
No, seriously. I did it. It's somewhat slower than fury/arms, obviously, but not by that much as long as you pick up the Revenge glyph as soon as possible, and you'll just tear through quests. There's almost no downtime, no enemies that you can't solo, and dungeons are of course no problem. I never once found myself thinking about switching specs.
-The need to carry an entire bag full of food and bandages, because you will be downing them like a crack addict.
-Any monster 3 or more levels above you would kick your ass because you'll now have a 90% miss rate on everything.
-On a related note, any group of 3 or more monsters would also destroy you. Escort quests became hell because the M.O would be to spawn 3+ on you. Usually twice, so forget using your 30m ability to save you.
God things are so much better now. I went Prot back when the WOTLK talents first hit and never looked back. Grabbing a group of 5 or more monsters, taking them down in about 1 minute, and doing so with over 80% health... you can't buy that level of happiness.
To be fair however, he only went from 1-20 early in 07...I didn't touch him again until around 3rd quarter 08 when i started the trek to 70 on him.
Levelling now is glorious. Ret is on a 5 minute cooldown. Rend does appreciable damage.
the only thing Retaliation being a 5 min cooldown does for me is that I can not-use it more often.
Its really a terrible skill. Though I suppose it has its uses pre-zerker stance.
What's it like now, again? Back in the day, it was the oh-shit button.
It's the same as before except the duration is shorter and they either added a limit to the number of attacks or the limit is lower I forget which. Regardless it's decent if you have multiple mobs attacking you for solo pve.
its decent fighting a bunch of mobs, but if you're up against a bunch of mobs, you'll want to be in Berserker stance for Whirlwind, and you won't be able to use Retaliation anyway.
edit: You can still stance dance to have retaliation up while in berserker stance for WW.