Apparently arcane mages hitting for 40k is working as intended because Blizzard thinks only fire is doing too much right now.
They said especially fire, but not only fire, perhaps fire is just the big one? I hope they don't nerf frost as the damage increase isn't massive (only deep freeze seems to be really powerful and thats on a long cooldown) and I like having ice barrier again.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Honestly I'm kind of curious *what* the problem is with Fire. I didn't notice anything too insane, certainly not like the ridiculous ABlasts and Ice Lance combos going on right now.
I'm not sure if it's any one particular thing with fire, which sucks because it's hard to know where the nerf is going to come. I hope they don't change any of the mechanics, maybe just tone a coefficient or two, because I've really enjoyed the style of play.
Honestly I'm kind of curious *what* the problem is with Fire. I didn't notice anything too insane, certainly not like the ridiculous ABlasts and Ice Lance combos going on right now.
Yeah, I'm not critting 25,000 damage Pyroblasts. In fact, overall my Pyroblast and Fireball damage seems about even to what it used to be.
I wonder if they're keeping in mind that come the expansion, our "Burn everything" will just get us killed because everything WAS CC'd?
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I was under the impression that Fire was crazy because you could basically put up Living Bomb and then chain instant Pyros forever
My Pyros crit for about 14k or so in 5mans and my Fireballs crit for around 12k. Granted, this is higher than my Elemental Shaman's 9k Lightning Bolts, but then, Fireball has a much longer cast time too, so...
As far as 'chain casting instant Pyros', I thought the DoT of Living Bomb couldn't proc it, only the explosion. Or at least, that's how it was. I honestly don't really see Fire as being out of control.
It wasn't, but my guess is Blizzard didn't take into account that Impact is spreading our dots around, so our AoE numbers come in during normal rotations.
It makes sense if you look at who got nerfed and who got buffed.
Paladins, Ferals, Fury/Arms? A bit of AoE, not a whole lot.
Nerfed? Warlocks, Mages. Lots of AoE.
Shadow Priests? Well, Shadow Word: Death is ridiculous.
Well... yeah, that I could definitely see. I haven't gotten a chance to *really* exploit it, but the whole potential of getting some DoTs up, Combusting them and Impacting them onto a group of mobs... I could see how that can get insane.
Living bomb the primary target (and 2 more if you trust the tank). Scorch. Fireball until dead. Pop Pyro on Hot Streaks. Fire blast on Impact procs. If you can trust the tank and it's an AoE pull, toss a blastwave.
If the opportunity presents itself, throw a combustion on your target (which hopefully has ignte and LB) before using an impact proc. You might die, but you'll die happy :P
If the opportunity presents itself, throw a combustion on your target (which hopefully has ignte and LB) before using an impact proc. You might die, but you'll die happy :P
During the early days of WoW, the mage's code was 'live fast, die young, set things on fire before you go'. Good to hear the old days are here again.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Story time: Heroic ToC. My mage's gear is maybe 220 average item level (nice little addition to the character pane btw). Thanks to a well timed series of crits->Impact proc->Combustion->Fire blast->Blastwave during phase 2, I pulled 10k DPS on the Black Knight.
Also, with that not-exactly-top-of-the-line gear, I've topped out at 17999 on a Pyro crit. Those don't get old very quickly.
you know what doesn't get old?
Shield of the Righteous crits for 60k on Festergut.
Story time: Heroic ToC. My mage's gear is maybe 220 average item level (nice little addition to the character pane btw). Thanks to a well timed series of crits->Impact proc->Combustion->Fire blast->Blastwave during phase 2, I pulled 10k DPS on the Black Knight.
Also, with that not-exactly-top-of-the-line gear, I've topped out at 17999 on a Pyro crit. Those don't get old very quickly.
you know what doesn't get old?
Shield of the Righteous crits for 60k on Festergut.
I have no choice but to agree with that statement. That would never get old. This patch has brought some fun things out. I nearly cracked 20k on a Bear-windfury crit in HHoR yesterday.
My pyroblast and fireball are hitting much, much harder than they were before the patch. I'm 'hitting' harder than I used to crit.
But that's not why I'm here.
I'm not sure I'm dpsing the right way. I'm consistently last in the party as a fire mage (although only by a small margin)
At level 71 I averaged 953 dps in an utgarde run last night. I feel like I can do better than that. Any tips?
Hey, some tips coming a few days later than you asked but I figure a few might be better than none!
As fire, you want to do the following things in an instance:
- Living Bomb on every mob in the pull
- Run up, cast Dragon's Breath
- Cast Blast wave on the group
- Follow up with an Impacted Fireblast
That should be more than enough damage to make your DPS go through the roof for trash pulls - if you have aggro, use frost nova to gain some distance, or Ice Block until tank regains control. The mobs should be dead by the time our LBs start exploding, if they aren't just wind down with a couple of scorches/fireballs depending on how much health they have left.
On bosses or large single targets, you want to ensure you keep LB up on the target - reapply as soon as it explodes. In between that, just cast fireball until you get hot streak procs and then fire off the instant pyro. Fire is, unfortunately, going to be mostly boring for you at a lower level because you won't have the crit that makes hot streak so much fun. Group pulls will always be fun though, Fire's the undisputed AoE king for mages.
I've been playing frost 95% of the time, so I'm sure I'm missing some intricacies, but this should essentially net you very solid DPS throughout your leveling experience. Some last minute things I could probably add are using Combustion on a boss after you get a hot streak off - it guarantees you have the LB dot, a huge Ignite dot and the Pyro dot to combine, which is snazzy stuff I would imagine.
The above AoE methodology will indeed get you plenty of DPS. Of note: Living Bomb cannot affect more than 3 targets. If you get an impact proc, you may want to slap combustion on a target before using it (another DoT to spread).
Be warned, however, that you're probably going to die if you try to AOE like this. A lot. Especially if you don't give the tank some lead time. Some tanks may get upset, some may just laugh at the suicidal mage. YMMV.
The above AoE methodology will indeed get you plenty of DPS. Of note: Living Bomb cannot affect more than 3 targets. If you get an impact proc, you may want to slap combustion on a target before using it (another DoT to spread).
Be warned, however, that you're probably going to die if you try to AOE like this. A lot. Especially if you don't give the tank some lead time. Some tanks may get upset, some may just laugh at the suicidal mage. YMMV.
Agreed, giving the tank some lead time given the patch changes is a wise idea - I did this kind of DPS pre-patch while leveling and encountered little to no issues with threat and dying in instances, but now things might have changed a bit.
Also, didn't know LB doesn't affect more than 3 mobs - is that a patch change? I could swear I was able to LB to my heart's content prior to the patch.
Yes, it was a patch change. Just like it being able to clip itself now.
Does it still explode, or is this a good way to maintain Fire DPS and not worry about adds going nuts? I had this problem on Deathbringer Saurfang and almost got my ass nuked. Luckily, I do obscene damage as Fire so I just kinda...blew them both up.
But still! It'd be nice to go "Uh oh, bomb in 4, beasts in 3...*Living Bomb*"
Or even prolong the dot because, say, there's only 11/23/35/etc or so seconds left on the boss, give or take, and there's no point in putting up Living Bomb when he's gonna die before the second one goes off otherwise.
Wouldn't the living bomb explosion only do 5% damage to the blood beasts?
Yeah but people tend to freak out if everything doesn't go exactly as they want it to. I.e the Hunter absolutely HAS to be DPSing one, and myself the other.
It goes smooth regardless, but eh.
EDIT: I also have a tendency to go full bore on any Blood Beast I see that is coming at me, heh.
I've got a newly 80 fire mage and have been running dungeons pretty often before and after the patch.
My initial instinct was to aoe like the previous post specified but have found a way that works out a little better. On those 3-4 mob trash packs dont bother setting up 3 living bombs. Instead target one and bomb it. Then drop a flamestrike on the group, then a blastwave, which will trigger another flamestrike.
All those hits will most likely trigger Impact for you. Impact the one with the bomb you applied which is also near going off. When all those bombs go off you'll very likely get another impact proc and you can repeat a bomb + impact on something. Or if they're nearing death already end it with dragon's breath at that point.
It would be good to probably wait a couple of beats before zooming through the flamestrike/blastwave portion depending on how things are going aggro wise. Impact lets you share a little bit of aoe love even if you have to single target a while.
My gear is still pretty newly 80 so my dps is probably way less than fully geared too. I'm betting fully geared that flamestrike/blastwave combo might cause aggro issues much more often. But once geared and you've got some nice crit going you can relie on the hot streaks popping alot more often and impact still shares those pyroblast burns with friends.
Yes, it was a patch change. Just like it being able to clip itself now.
Does it still explode, or is this a good way to maintain Fire DPS and not worry about adds going nuts? I had this problem on Deathbringer Saurfang and almost got my ass nuked. Luckily, I do obscene damage as Fire so I just kinda...blew them both up.
But still! It'd be nice to go "Uh oh, bomb in 4, beasts in 3...*Living Bomb*"
Or even prolong the dot because, say, there's only 11/23/35/etc or so seconds left on the boss, give or take, and there's no point in putting up Living Bomb when he's gonna die before the second one goes off otherwise.
It doesn't explode, just resets the timer. Which is overall bad, though I suppose if you're going for that specific outcome yay for some positive in it.
Well it's not exactly hard to watch for the explosion. Not like Warlocks who have Timers and spreadsheets and macros to time it juuuuust right.
*BOOM*
*Press 1*
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
SO I know I'm being "that guy," but what is the ideal reforging for us? I am fire/frost for my 2 specs, at the hit cap, and sitting at about 700 haste and 43% crit. Should I be forging one of those stats into mastery, into the other, or should I not even care?
I swear I have looked, but there isn't a lot of straight out there stuff for mages.
I know most people are of the opinion that you can't get enough mastery atm to make it worth it or it gimps you too much overall if you go all out currently. So pretty much reforge spirit to whatever, and either keep everything else as is or reforge to whatever is best that isn't mastery.
I have a 66 Frost Mage who is making his way through Outland. On bosses/single target, should I go FFB x3, then spam Frostbolt until FoF or Brain Freeze proc?
Is it just me, or does it seem like mages are at a huge disadvantage in PvP?
I was fighting a paladin earlier in battlegrounds. I'm level 74. I have about 1100 spell damage, 14000 health, 13000 mana, and I was wearing molten armor at the time, I believe (I'm a fire mage).
Admittedly, I'm not specced for pvp. I have a secondary slot open. I just haven't splashed into it yet. But the spanking that I endured was pretty humiliating/frustrating.
So I catch this pally at a distance. Coming out of another fight even at something like 80% mana and health. Open up with a quick scorch. Living bomb, and he stands there for a bit. Just chills out. He's taunting me. So I hit him with a couple of fireballs. 4.5K, 4.5K (both crits) and follow up with my hot streak for another 7k. At this point he bubbles (but not before taking another 3k from combust which I was really thinking would kill him, since I had combusted a huge ignite as well as living bomb) He bubbles. Heals up right quick, crits me for 11500 (He's level 76), and then another 9K right after that. Dead. He's at 100% health and like 98% mana.
Priests do the same thing. I had a priest earlier just shield himself and idly mana burn me while I fruitlessly wailed on him. Again. 100% health, 80+% mana, shield still up when I died.
What is it about healers that they just refuse to die? And who at blizzard wrote the damage formula that allows a pally 2 levels higher than me to do almost 2:1 damage to mine? So...infinitely more survivability than the mage both in terms of maximum HP and recovery ability, at-will stunning of other players, competent melee ability (melee swings that hit for about 50-60% as much as a mage's most powerful spells) and spell crits on top of that for eleven fucking thousand at level 76...I mean, am I missing something? Some crucial detail? Or are we just broken? Are they just broken?
So, what happened to the distance between you in between
So I catch this pally at a distance.
and
crits me for 11500
?
I don't have a high-level mage (yet), but in my years of paladin experience it's always been a struggle just to get close to one, and if the paladin's not with melee range (or at the very least Judgment range), their damage output is greatly limited. Getting kited every day.
Pallies can spam exorcism now, but my only experience with that was in the 50s bracket where everything is seven shades of shit right now. I assume it's not as effective in the 70s.
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
I've seen 13k exo crits on my 80 pally. It's pretty bananas right now.
So, what happened to the distance between you in between
So I catch this pally at a distance.
and
crits me for 11500
?
I don't have a high-level mage (yet), but in my years of paladin experience it's always been a struggle just to get close to one, and if the paladin's not with melee range (or at the very least Judgment range), their damage output is greatly limited. Getting kited every day.
Maybe that paladin's bubble had something to do with it? :P
Worth noting also though that Ret has a talent that increases their movement speed by 45% for 4s after Judging a target more than 15y away, and another talent that gives Judgement a 30y range, so that may have also entered the equation.
I thought Exo didn't do big damage for Ret without an Art of War proc (besides costing a good chunk of mana).
Anyway, mage PvP is all about finesse and staying away. And, no, you generally won't beat a healer 1 on 1, because you're not supposed to. If you could, healers would be useless in meaningful PvP. The game isn't supposed to be balanced around 1v1 engagements, nor is every talent spec going to be equally viable.
I thought Exo didn't do big damage for Ret without an Art of War proc (besides costing a good chunk of mana).
Anyway, mage PvP is all about finesse and staying away. And, no, you generally won't beat a healer 1 on 1, because you're not supposed to. If you could, healers would be useless in meaningful PvP. The game isn't supposed to be balanced around 1v1 engagements, nor is every talent spec going to be equally viable.
No, ideally, it would be a 50/50 tossup. You can't honestly say that a healer should be better at combat than a pure combat class. I have less HP than a pally, and I cant heal myself for 8000 in a 1.5 second cast for 3% of my mana. My best crit is 6k and his is nearly 12? No. Cmon. All the kiting ability in the world doesn't change the fact that I do not stand even a slight chance. In fact, I stand so little of a chance that he can stand there and /yawn in the face of my strongest abilities, then heal up and nuke me straight to death without so much as a dent in his resources.
I'm not mad because I'm not winning. I just really don't understand what is going on. Maybe I'll have more luck with frost?
Posts
They said especially fire, but not only fire, perhaps fire is just the big one? I hope they don't nerf frost as the damage increase isn't massive (only deep freeze seems to be really powerful and thats on a long cooldown) and I like having ice barrier again.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Yeah, I'm not critting 25,000 damage Pyroblasts. In fact, overall my Pyroblast and Fireball damage seems about even to what it used to be.
I wonder if they're keeping in mind that come the expansion, our "Burn everything" will just get us killed because everything WAS CC'd?
As far as 'chain casting instant Pyros', I thought the DoT of Living Bomb couldn't proc it, only the explosion. Or at least, that's how it was. I honestly don't really see Fire as being out of control.
It makes sense if you look at who got nerfed and who got buffed.
Paladins, Ferals, Fury/Arms? A bit of AoE, not a whole lot.
Nerfed? Warlocks, Mages. Lots of AoE.
Shadow Priests? Well, Shadow Word: Death is ridiculous.
But that's not why I'm here.
I'm not sure I'm dpsing the right way. I'm consistently last in the party as a fire mage (although only by a small margin)
At level 71 I averaged 953 dps in an utgarde run last night. I feel like I can do better than that. Any tips?
If the opportunity presents itself, throw a combustion on your target (which hopefully has ignte and LB) before using an impact proc. You might die, but you'll die happy :P
During the early days of WoW, the mage's code was 'live fast, die young, set things on fire before you go'. Good to hear the old days are here again.
you know what doesn't get old?
Shield of the Righteous crits for 60k on Festergut.
I have no choice but to agree with that statement. That would never get old. This patch has brought some fun things out. I nearly cracked 20k on a Bear-windfury crit in HHoR yesterday.
Hey, some tips coming a few days later than you asked but I figure a few might be better than none!
As fire, you want to do the following things in an instance:
- Living Bomb on every mob in the pull
- Run up, cast Dragon's Breath
- Cast Blast wave on the group
- Follow up with an Impacted Fireblast
That should be more than enough damage to make your DPS go through the roof for trash pulls - if you have aggro, use frost nova to gain some distance, or Ice Block until tank regains control. The mobs should be dead by the time our LBs start exploding, if they aren't just wind down with a couple of scorches/fireballs depending on how much health they have left.
On bosses or large single targets, you want to ensure you keep LB up on the target - reapply as soon as it explodes. In between that, just cast fireball until you get hot streak procs and then fire off the instant pyro. Fire is, unfortunately, going to be mostly boring for you at a lower level because you won't have the crit that makes hot streak so much fun. Group pulls will always be fun though, Fire's the undisputed AoE king for mages.
I've been playing frost 95% of the time, so I'm sure I'm missing some intricacies, but this should essentially net you very solid DPS throughout your leveling experience. Some last minute things I could probably add are using Combustion on a boss after you get a hot streak off - it guarantees you have the LB dot, a huge Ignite dot and the Pyro dot to combine, which is snazzy stuff I would imagine.
Ghalan - Tauren Druid
Be warned, however, that you're probably going to die if you try to AOE like this. A lot. Especially if you don't give the tank some lead time. Some tanks may get upset, some may just laugh at the suicidal mage. YMMV.
Agreed, giving the tank some lead time given the patch changes is a wise idea - I did this kind of DPS pre-patch while leveling and encountered little to no issues with threat and dying in instances, but now things might have changed a bit.
Also, didn't know LB doesn't affect more than 3 mobs - is that a patch change? I could swear I was able to LB to my heart's content prior to the patch.
Ghalan - Tauren Druid
Does it still explode, or is this a good way to maintain Fire DPS and not worry about adds going nuts? I had this problem on Deathbringer Saurfang and almost got my ass nuked. Luckily, I do obscene damage as Fire so I just kinda...blew them both up.
But still! It'd be nice to go "Uh oh, bomb in 4, beasts in 3...*Living Bomb*"
Or even prolong the dot because, say, there's only 11/23/35/etc or so seconds left on the boss, give or take, and there's no point in putting up Living Bomb when he's gonna die before the second one goes off otherwise.
Yeah but people tend to freak out if everything doesn't go exactly as they want it to. I.e the Hunter absolutely HAS to be DPSing one, and myself the other.
It goes smooth regardless, but eh.
EDIT: I also have a tendency to go full bore on any Blood Beast I see that is coming at me, heh.
My initial instinct was to aoe like the previous post specified but have found a way that works out a little better. On those 3-4 mob trash packs dont bother setting up 3 living bombs. Instead target one and bomb it. Then drop a flamestrike on the group, then a blastwave, which will trigger another flamestrike.
All those hits will most likely trigger Impact for you. Impact the one with the bomb you applied which is also near going off. When all those bombs go off you'll very likely get another impact proc and you can repeat a bomb + impact on something. Or if they're nearing death already end it with dragon's breath at that point.
It would be good to probably wait a couple of beats before zooming through the flamestrike/blastwave portion depending on how things are going aggro wise. Impact lets you share a little bit of aoe love even if you have to single target a while.
My gear is still pretty newly 80 so my dps is probably way less than fully geared too. I'm betting fully geared that flamestrike/blastwave combo might cause aggro issues much more often. But once geared and you've got some nice crit going you can relie on the hot streaks popping alot more often and impact still shares those pyroblast burns with friends.
It doesn't explode, just resets the timer. Which is overall bad, though I suppose if you're going for that specific outcome yay for some positive in it.
*BOOM*
*Press 1*
I swear I have looked, but there isn't a lot of straight out there stuff for mages.
Just about to hit 80 on my mage, and I love frost PvP, this info shall come in useful, thanks
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ravenholdt&cn=Malucenos
there's my armory if it matters.
Which it probably doesn't because I tend to blow most of the non-mages out of the water regardless.
EDIT: Turns out the armory is borked, at least for my mage.
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#oZZcbrhsIszb
Ayliana Moonwhisper Ecksus Cerazal
I was fighting a paladin earlier in battlegrounds. I'm level 74. I have about 1100 spell damage, 14000 health, 13000 mana, and I was wearing molten armor at the time, I believe (I'm a fire mage).
Admittedly, I'm not specced for pvp. I have a secondary slot open. I just haven't splashed into it yet. But the spanking that I endured was pretty humiliating/frustrating.
So I catch this pally at a distance. Coming out of another fight even at something like 80% mana and health. Open up with a quick scorch. Living bomb, and he stands there for a bit. Just chills out. He's taunting me. So I hit him with a couple of fireballs. 4.5K, 4.5K (both crits) and follow up with my hot streak for another 7k. At this point he bubbles (but not before taking another 3k from combust which I was really thinking would kill him, since I had combusted a huge ignite as well as living bomb) He bubbles. Heals up right quick, crits me for 11500 (He's level 76), and then another 9K right after that. Dead. He's at 100% health and like 98% mana.
Priests do the same thing. I had a priest earlier just shield himself and idly mana burn me while I fruitlessly wailed on him. Again. 100% health, 80+% mana, shield still up when I died.
What is it about healers that they just refuse to die? And who at blizzard wrote the damage formula that allows a pally 2 levels higher than me to do almost 2:1 damage to mine? So...infinitely more survivability than the mage both in terms of maximum HP and recovery ability, at-will stunning of other players, competent melee ability (melee swings that hit for about 50-60% as much as a mage's most powerful spells) and spell crits on top of that for eleven fucking thousand at level 76...I mean, am I missing something? Some crucial detail? Or are we just broken? Are they just broken?
I don't want to be 'that guy' but god damn.
and ?
I don't have a high-level mage (yet), but in my years of paladin experience it's always been a struggle just to get close to one, and if the paladin's not with melee range (or at the very least Judgment range), their damage output is greatly limited. Getting kited every day.
Maybe that paladin's bubble had something to do with it? :P
Worth noting also though that Ret has a talent that increases their movement speed by 45% for 4s after Judging a target more than 15y away, and another talent that gives Judgement a 30y range, so that may have also entered the equation.
Anyway, mage PvP is all about finesse and staying away. And, no, you generally won't beat a healer 1 on 1, because you're not supposed to. If you could, healers would be useless in meaningful PvP. The game isn't supposed to be balanced around 1v1 engagements, nor is every talent spec going to be equally viable.
No, ideally, it would be a 50/50 tossup. You can't honestly say that a healer should be better at combat than a pure combat class. I have less HP than a pally, and I cant heal myself for 8000 in a 1.5 second cast for 3% of my mana. My best crit is 6k and his is nearly 12? No. Cmon. All the kiting ability in the world doesn't change the fact that I do not stand even a slight chance. In fact, I stand so little of a chance that he can stand there and /yawn in the face of my strongest abilities, then heal up and nuke me straight to death without so much as a dent in his resources.
I'm not mad because I'm not winning. I just really don't understand what is going on. Maybe I'll have more luck with frost?