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The TV Thread: Holiday 2010 has ALREADY begun!
Scrublet
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
HDGuru has Samsung's 2011 price list.
Important Specs
Size – Measured from opposite corners, this is the biggest factor in price of a TV
Native Contrast Ratio – The best contrast a display can produce between its whitest white and darkest black at a given instant. A great way to test this is a starfield scene…how white can the stars be versus the blackness of space at the same time? Remember: a high contrast ratio is still shitty if the darkest black it can display is light grey.
Dynamic Contrast Ratio – Bullshit. I put this up here because it’s often quoted, but this is a meaningless number. It refers to how black a COMPLETELY black screen can be versus the whiteness of a COMPLETELY white screen. How often do you watch a completely black screen? Exactly. Check the bottom of this article for a good write up on the uselessness of native/dynamic contrast ratios.
Display Resolution – 480i used to be the only resolution offered. DVDs made 480p possible if your TV could handle it. HDTV defined the 720p, 1080i, and 1080p standards. A chart at the bottom clarifies what resolution you need, but generally speaking if you’re under 50” a 720p TV is fine. But 1080p is not usually much more expensive either.
Deep Color/x.v.Color – These features are being tossed around right now, but at this point in time virtually nothing actually implements them. So while they’re nice to have for the future, don’t make a decision based on them.
Viewing Angle – Another bullshit figure. You can “view” a TV from any angle, so LCD manufacturers list angles up to 178 degrees. But your LCD will look substantially worse viewed off angle.
120/240 Hz – This can refer to two different things. In one sense it refers to a feature newer LCDs have that uses a faster refresh rate to avoid the classic motion blur problem. However, it is often combined with features that remove “judder” from movies. This judder is a result of the movies being filmed at 24 fps. Some people love anti-judder, but others hate it and turn it off. DO NOT buy a 120 Hz TV that doesn’t allow you to turn this feature off unless you are absolutely sure you like it. Additionally, here is an article expanding on this spec.
Inputs - The importance of a TVs inputs will vary based on whether or not you are plugging everything into an A/V receiver. In this day and age, any HDTV should have at least two HDMI inputs, at least one component input, at least one composite input, and maybe a digital coax or optical input. Some manufacturers include inputs on the side as well as the back.
3DTV - Pretty self-explanatory, with the exception of DLP people. All the new 3DTV LCD/Plasmas work fine out of the box. However, the checkerboard standard that was adopted years ago by the DLP manufacturers is not what made the final cut in 3D. What this means is that if you have a 3D-Ready DLP, you are most likely going to have to buy an adapter. These are often sold in a kit with glasses (I think I've seen one for the Mitsubishi sets at $400 with two glasses included).
2/23/2010 Edit (spoilered because as of 3/1/2011 I'm not sure how relevant this is anymore):
Types of TV
Rear Projection DLP
Description
This is the legacy system, the only real non-flatpanel display still in existence. Amazingly, it still holds its own very well. These TVs will give you huge screen size (most range from 55-72”) at much more affordable budget. For the best quality, you want to look for LED DLP TVs, which will be lighter, smaller, and consume less power while providing greater image quality. Most importantly, the LED DLPs remove the need for bulb replacement that plagued older models.
Pros
Big screens at a cheap price
Generally avoids motion blur
Uses less power than plasmas
Can provide great color
Ignoring bulb replacement, no shelf life (LCDs and Plasmas both rated for a certain amount of hours)
Cons
Generally speaking, cannot be wall mounted
May have fan noise
Bulb replacement on older non-LED models
Some notice a "rainbow" effect
Blacks generally won’t compete with mid- and high-end plasmas and LED-backlit LCDs
Major Brands
Mitsubishi is the only one still in this market
LCD
Description
The most common tech on the market day, LCDs are known for weighing less than plasma TVs and for consuming less power. Wikipedia can better describe the backing technology than I can. These TVs range in price from absurdly cheap to prohibitively expensive. In general, price differences between TVs of similar size are justified by color accuracy, how well the panel can render quick motion, thickness, and the all-important black level.
There are three main techs of LCD. The first is the "legacy" LCD, which uses a CCFL backlight. These TVs are becoming harder to find every year. The most common LCD tech out there is edge-lit LED. These TVs use LED lighting along the side of the screen (similar to many laptops). This allows the TVs to use less power, become absurdly thin, and still produce a relatively good picture. However, the obvious uniformity issues can come into play when you are lighting from the edges. Each brand typically has one super-high-end line of LED using "local-dimming". Here there are LED "zones" throughout the TV that can be turned on or off depending on what is needed at any given time. These TVs have the best picture of all LCD TVs. Be wary of deals from off-brands on local-dimming...the quality of these TVs is directly tied to how many zones are available. Additionally, the dynamic black level rating is even more useless in this case because the TV will simply turn off all of its lights for the dark part of the test.
Pros
Lighter weight and less power-hungry than Plasma
Can be viewed in brightly-lit rooms
Broader size ranges (smaller plasmas have mostly been discontinued)
Cons
Motion blur (mostly resolved, see below)
Black levels are still improving, but usually won't match plasma at an equivalent price point (and top-end plasma will still win over top-end LED)
Viewing angle – even top sets suffer when viewed at any angle other than center (much less a problem than it used to be though)
High-end price - in most cases, the best LCD is pricier than other premium sets
Major Brands
Samsung, Sony, Sharp, LG, Toshiba, Vizio
Plasma
Description
Plasma technology is based on inert gases trapped behind two layers of glass. Plasmas are renown for their spectacular image quality as well as higher power consumption and greater weights. They also struggle to shake negative public perception caused by their early burn-in issues (see farther down this post). The technology has made a strong showing for itself since the 2008 financial because of the cheaper prices of larger high-quality sets and a growing consumer awareness that its issues have been solved. The differences in price between plasmas are usually based on panel thickness and color accuracy/black levels.
Pros
Good at all viewing angles
The best possible blacks on the market
Doesn’t need the 120/240Hz coping systems for motion that LCD needs
Larger possible screens at "realistic" prices
Price – in general, plasmas will cost less than LCDs of equal size/quality
Cons
NOT Burn-in (discussed more below)
Heavy and power-hungry
Mainly belongs in a light-controlled room
Possible degredation over time and significant use (see edit directly below)
Major Brands
Panasonic, Samsung
3/1/11 Edit: One thing you may find in researching this technology is that it degrades over time. This is a valid concern when laying down a bunch of money for a TV. The short version is that tons of reading on the subject has convinced me that this is not a concern to be worried about. And usually when someone is steadfastly refusing to budge from this being a dealbreaking-issue, I find that their primary justification is the morons that infest AVSForums. But the people in there who really know what they're talking about, the people who have a longstanding proven history of testing and calibrating TVs, will not harp on this. More spoilered:
The Great Debate: LCD vs. Plasma
This battle is now mostly the result of the early handicaps of each technology. Plasmas were infamous for their burn-in problems, in which a TV would become permanently stained by an image that had been left on the screen too long, such as a network TV logo or the black bars from a widescreen movie. LCDs were known for being horrible if you weren't sitting directly in front of them, as well as having difficulty dealing with quick motion in sports, action movies, games, etc. The next few bullets are very much my opinion, but I think if you look around reputable review sources you'll see these comments borne out.
Plasma Burn-In is no longer a problem. No, I don't want to hear about your friend who like, watched twenty minutes of mean girls and totally got burn-in. No. I actually wanted to put this up early in the year, but didn't have enough reputable information to justify it. You will have to deliberately try to hurt your TV to cause any kind of burn-in. If you're super paranoid (like me), treat your plasma nice by avoiding static images during a 100-hour break-in. Or don't. If you want to hear about the abuse I've done to my own plasma, feel free to PM me.
LCD motion is also no longer a major issue, provided you're buying a 120Hz panel. Of course, many people never thought there was an issue with 60Hz, and if you're one of those people then you don't need to worry about this anyways. For most people, LCDs with 120Hz and MOTION INTERPOLATION TURNED OFF will not notice a difference between LCD and Plasma.
LCDs still suck off angle. Not as badly as they used to, and probably not a deal breaker for many, but they do.
Plasmas still suck down way more power than LCDs and weigh more.
It still takes $3000+ high-end LCDs to beat the best $1500 plasmas. This price disparity is often expressed in smaller amounts at the lower and middle-end sets as well.
What's the takeaway? There are two. Number one, don't worry about bullshit on EITHER tech. Don't be scared away from buying that plasma because you own an Xbox 360. Don't skip on that LCD because you have the NFL Ticket on DirecTV. Buy a size and quality that fits your budget. I will objectively suggest that often times in the current price market that will be a plasma.
Finding The Best Price
Amazon (and in some cases Newegg) will be your friend here. You can get massive discounts below what typical consumer stores will charge. Sometimes open-box deals are a good way to go, though I’ve noticed that Best Buy open box discounts are usually not worth it. Make sure as you browse online that you check whether a posted price includes shipping…these things get HEAVY. Additionally, make sure you know what warranty you are getting. Some of the cheaper online stores (and Ebay) aren't approved distributors for a particular brand. In these cases, a TV will NOT be covered by a manufacturer's warranty. Don't be fooled either...I've seen a bunch of these sites list "US Warranty" as being included in the purchase. This does not mean manufacturer! It means they're using a third party warranty service, and can refer to any service or the actual company USWarranty, which I've seen bad reports about.
This HDGuru article does the best job ever explaining why looking at TVs in-store is of questionable benefit when making a purchase. In addition to turning their TVs onto "torch" settings, the lighting makes a big difference. The store can still be great to see if the MOTION of the set is up to par (particularly important for LCDs). But in many ways word-of-mouth from AVSForum owner threads can be far more useful than personal experience at Best Buy.
When looking at TVs online, you should treat a TV's listed specifications with a grain of salt, even on sites like Amazon and Newegg. I've noted several times where secondary features or even contrast ratios get confused across lines (for example, a Samsung C630 and a C650 might have some errors between them). And a lot of times features won't be listed (analog inputs, etc). Always check the manufacturer site for real specifications, and ensure that the TV that arrives at your door meets those specifications.
Subnote: Why are there so many models for the same brand that have similar numbers and identical specs?
A lot of these models exist solely for the purpose of thwarting price matching. They'll be minutely different (like one extra random input port or some BS feature). If store A is carrying the mainline model (say a Samsung 650) while store B is carrying one of the offshoots (like a 630 or something), neither store is obligated to price match the other because the models are different. While this isn't a hard-fast rule, generally if the manufacturer is reporting identical picture specs (contrast ratio, response time, etc), while the numbers are meaningless their equality tells you that it's the same panel with just a couple small extras added/removed.
Resolution-Distance Chart
Important Specs
Size – Measured from opposite corners, this is the biggest factor in price of a TV
Native Contrast Ratio – The best contrast a display can produce between its whitest white and darkest black at a given instant. A great way to test this is a starfield scene…how white can the stars be versus the blackness of space at the same time? Remember: a high contrast ratio is still shitty if the darkest black it can display is light grey.
Dynamic Contrast Ratio – Bullshit. I put this up here because it’s often quoted, but this is a meaningless number. It refers to how black a COMPLETELY black screen can be versus the whiteness of a COMPLETELY white screen. How often do you watch a completely black screen? Exactly. Check the bottom of this article for a good write up on the uselessness of native/dynamic contrast ratios.
Display Resolution – 480i used to be the only resolution offered. DVDs made 480p possible if your TV could handle it. HDTV defined the 720p, 1080i, and 1080p standards. A chart at the bottom clarifies what resolution you need, but generally speaking if you’re under 50” a 720p TV is fine. But 1080p is not usually much more expensive either.
Deep Color/x.v.Color – These features are being tossed around right now, but at this point in time virtually nothing actually implements them. So while they’re nice to have for the future, don’t make a decision based on them.
Viewing Angle – Another bullshit figure. You can “view” a TV from any angle, so LCD manufacturers list angles up to 178 degrees. But your LCD will look substantially worse viewed off angle.
120/240 Hz – This can refer to two different things. In one sense it refers to a feature newer LCDs have that uses a faster refresh rate to avoid the classic motion blur problem. However, it is often combined with features that remove “judder” from movies. This judder is a result of the movies being filmed at 24 fps. Some people love anti-judder, but others hate it and turn it off. DO NOT buy a 120 Hz TV that doesn’t allow you to turn this feature off unless you are absolutely sure you like it. Additionally, here is an article expanding on this spec.
Inputs - The importance of a TVs inputs will vary based on whether or not you are plugging everything into an A/V receiver. In this day and age, any HDTV should have at least two HDMI inputs, at least one component input, at least one composite input, and maybe a digital coax or optical input. Some manufacturers include inputs on the side as well as the back.
3DTV - Pretty self-explanatory, with the exception of DLP people. All the new 3DTV LCD/Plasmas work fine out of the box. However, the checkerboard standard that was adopted years ago by the DLP manufacturers is not what made the final cut in 3D. What this means is that if you have a 3D-Ready DLP, you are most likely going to have to buy an adapter. These are often sold in a kit with glasses (I think I've seen one for the Mitsubishi sets at $400 with two glasses included).
2/23/2010 Edit (spoilered because as of 3/1/2011 I'm not sure how relevant this is anymore):
According to this HDGuru article, your current surround sound receiver will not be able to pass HDMI video to your 3DTV. End of story. There are VERY FEW 3D-ready surround sound receivers out yet (though some have been announced). And as the article states there is only ONE 3D-BluRay that can output video and audio over two separate HDMI outs. What this means is that if you get a 3DTV and you currently route your sources through a receiver, your options are to either A) buy a new 3D-ready receiver or 
plug all the video of your sources directly into your TV and plug the audio to the receiver using optical cables (meaning no Dolby-HD or DTS-MA).
plug all the video of your sources directly into your TV and plug the audio to the receiver using optical cables (meaning no Dolby-HD or DTS-MA).Types of TV
Rear Projection DLP
Description
This is the legacy system, the only real non-flatpanel display still in existence. Amazingly, it still holds its own very well. These TVs will give you huge screen size (most range from 55-72”) at much more affordable budget. For the best quality, you want to look for LED DLP TVs, which will be lighter, smaller, and consume less power while providing greater image quality. Most importantly, the LED DLPs remove the need for bulb replacement that plagued older models.
Pros
Big screens at a cheap price
Generally avoids motion blur
Uses less power than plasmas
Can provide great color
Ignoring bulb replacement, no shelf life (LCDs and Plasmas both rated for a certain amount of hours)
Cons
Generally speaking, cannot be wall mounted
May have fan noise
Bulb replacement on older non-LED models
Some notice a "rainbow" effect
Blacks generally won’t compete with mid- and high-end plasmas and LED-backlit LCDs
Major Brands
Mitsubishi is the only one still in this market
LCD
Description
The most common tech on the market day, LCDs are known for weighing less than plasma TVs and for consuming less power. Wikipedia can better describe the backing technology than I can. These TVs range in price from absurdly cheap to prohibitively expensive. In general, price differences between TVs of similar size are justified by color accuracy, how well the panel can render quick motion, thickness, and the all-important black level.
There are three main techs of LCD. The first is the "legacy" LCD, which uses a CCFL backlight. These TVs are becoming harder to find every year. The most common LCD tech out there is edge-lit LED. These TVs use LED lighting along the side of the screen (similar to many laptops). This allows the TVs to use less power, become absurdly thin, and still produce a relatively good picture. However, the obvious uniformity issues can come into play when you are lighting from the edges. Each brand typically has one super-high-end line of LED using "local-dimming". Here there are LED "zones" throughout the TV that can be turned on or off depending on what is needed at any given time. These TVs have the best picture of all LCD TVs. Be wary of deals from off-brands on local-dimming...the quality of these TVs is directly tied to how many zones are available. Additionally, the dynamic black level rating is even more useless in this case because the TV will simply turn off all of its lights for the dark part of the test.
Pros
Lighter weight and less power-hungry than Plasma
Can be viewed in brightly-lit rooms
Broader size ranges (smaller plasmas have mostly been discontinued)
Cons
Motion blur (mostly resolved, see below)
Black levels are still improving, but usually won't match plasma at an equivalent price point (and top-end plasma will still win over top-end LED)
Viewing angle – even top sets suffer when viewed at any angle other than center (much less a problem than it used to be though)
High-end price - in most cases, the best LCD is pricier than other premium sets
Major Brands
Samsung, Sony, Sharp, LG, Toshiba, Vizio
Plasma
Description
Plasma technology is based on inert gases trapped behind two layers of glass. Plasmas are renown for their spectacular image quality as well as higher power consumption and greater weights. They also struggle to shake negative public perception caused by their early burn-in issues (see farther down this post). The technology has made a strong showing for itself since the 2008 financial because of the cheaper prices of larger high-quality sets and a growing consumer awareness that its issues have been solved. The differences in price between plasmas are usually based on panel thickness and color accuracy/black levels.
Pros
Good at all viewing angles
The best possible blacks on the market
Doesn’t need the 120/240Hz coping systems for motion that LCD needs
Larger possible screens at "realistic" prices
Price – in general, plasmas will cost less than LCDs of equal size/quality
Cons
NOT Burn-in (discussed more below)
Heavy and power-hungry
Mainly belongs in a light-controlled room
Possible degredation over time and significant use (see edit directly below)
Major Brands
Panasonic, Samsung
3/1/11 Edit: One thing you may find in researching this technology is that it degrades over time. This is a valid concern when laying down a bunch of money for a TV. The short version is that tons of reading on the subject has convinced me that this is not a concern to be worried about. And usually when someone is steadfastly refusing to budge from this being a dealbreaking-issue, I find that their primary justification is the morons that infest AVSForums. But the people in there who really know what they're talking about, the people who have a longstanding proven history of testing and calibrating TVs, will not harp on this. More spoilered:
This all basically started in late 2009. Over time plasma TVs are configured to make slight adjustments to their voltages. I'm not going to pretend to be an electrical engineer who knows the detailed background of this, but the layman's version is that this will result in the black level of the TV rising over time. This is generally imperceptible and since then reviewers such as CNet have been punishing plasma TVs for longer time periods and updating their reviews with the results (usually this does not change their score because as I said, it isn't noticeable).
Unfortunately Panasonic fucked this up pretty badly in 2009. Most of their models that year made too drastic a change in the voltage somewhere between 1000-1500 hours of use. This resulted in the lowest black level doubling, and that definitely was noticeable. In typical corporate fashion, the farthest Panasonic went was a press statement that essentially read "Our TVs are awesome. But the black level rises. We didn't screw up. But next year's TVs won't do this." In any event they were true to their word, the 2010 plasma models did not rise noticeable amounts over anything remotely resembling typical use. But once you screw up like this long memories take root.
Unfortunately Panasonic fucked this up pretty badly in 2009. Most of their models that year made too drastic a change in the voltage somewhere between 1000-1500 hours of use. This resulted in the lowest black level doubling, and that definitely was noticeable. In typical corporate fashion, the farthest Panasonic went was a press statement that essentially read "Our TVs are awesome. But the black level rises. We didn't screw up. But next year's TVs won't do this." In any event they were true to their word, the 2010 plasma models did not rise noticeable amounts over anything remotely resembling typical use. But once you screw up like this long memories take root.
The Great Debate: LCD vs. Plasma
This battle is now mostly the result of the early handicaps of each technology. Plasmas were infamous for their burn-in problems, in which a TV would become permanently stained by an image that had been left on the screen too long, such as a network TV logo or the black bars from a widescreen movie. LCDs were known for being horrible if you weren't sitting directly in front of them, as well as having difficulty dealing with quick motion in sports, action movies, games, etc. The next few bullets are very much my opinion, but I think if you look around reputable review sources you'll see these comments borne out.
Plasma Burn-In is no longer a problem. No, I don't want to hear about your friend who like, watched twenty minutes of mean girls and totally got burn-in. No. I actually wanted to put this up early in the year, but didn't have enough reputable information to justify it. You will have to deliberately try to hurt your TV to cause any kind of burn-in. If you're super paranoid (like me), treat your plasma nice by avoiding static images during a 100-hour break-in. Or don't. If you want to hear about the abuse I've done to my own plasma, feel free to PM me.
LCD motion is also no longer a major issue, provided you're buying a 120Hz panel. Of course, many people never thought there was an issue with 60Hz, and if you're one of those people then you don't need to worry about this anyways. For most people, LCDs with 120Hz and MOTION INTERPOLATION TURNED OFF will not notice a difference between LCD and Plasma.
LCDs still suck off angle. Not as badly as they used to, and probably not a deal breaker for many, but they do.
Plasmas still suck down way more power than LCDs and weigh more.
It still takes $3000+ high-end LCDs to beat the best $1500 plasmas. This price disparity is often expressed in smaller amounts at the lower and middle-end sets as well.
What's the takeaway? There are two. Number one, don't worry about bullshit on EITHER tech. Don't be scared away from buying that plasma because you own an Xbox 360. Don't skip on that LCD because you have the NFL Ticket on DirecTV. Buy a size and quality that fits your budget. I will objectively suggest that often times in the current price market that will be a plasma.
Finding The Best Price
Amazon (and in some cases Newegg) will be your friend here. You can get massive discounts below what typical consumer stores will charge. Sometimes open-box deals are a good way to go, though I’ve noticed that Best Buy open box discounts are usually not worth it. Make sure as you browse online that you check whether a posted price includes shipping…these things get HEAVY. Additionally, make sure you know what warranty you are getting. Some of the cheaper online stores (and Ebay) aren't approved distributors for a particular brand. In these cases, a TV will NOT be covered by a manufacturer's warranty. Don't be fooled either...I've seen a bunch of these sites list "US Warranty" as being included in the purchase. This does not mean manufacturer! It means they're using a third party warranty service, and can refer to any service or the actual company USWarranty, which I've seen bad reports about.
This HDGuru article does the best job ever explaining why looking at TVs in-store is of questionable benefit when making a purchase. In addition to turning their TVs onto "torch" settings, the lighting makes a big difference. The store can still be great to see if the MOTION of the set is up to par (particularly important for LCDs). But in many ways word-of-mouth from AVSForum owner threads can be far more useful than personal experience at Best Buy.
When looking at TVs online, you should treat a TV's listed specifications with a grain of salt, even on sites like Amazon and Newegg. I've noted several times where secondary features or even contrast ratios get confused across lines (for example, a Samsung C630 and a C650 might have some errors between them). And a lot of times features won't be listed (analog inputs, etc). Always check the manufacturer site for real specifications, and ensure that the TV that arrives at your door meets those specifications.
Subnote: Why are there so many models for the same brand that have similar numbers and identical specs?
A lot of these models exist solely for the purpose of thwarting price matching. They'll be minutely different (like one extra random input port or some BS feature). If store A is carrying the mainline model (say a Samsung 650) while store B is carrying one of the offshoots (like a 630 or something), neither store is obligated to price match the other because the models are different. While this isn't a hard-fast rule, generally if the manufacturer is reporting identical picture specs (contrast ratio, response time, etc), while the numbers are meaningless their equality tells you that it's the same panel with just a couple small extras added/removed.
Resolution-Distance Chart
Scrublet on
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This discussion has been closed.
Posts
Depends on how much you think you're going to save. TVs will probably go on sale again in December as retailers try to get extra black on their books before year's end. However, I would expect to see some sales as we head into the summer and Samsung/Panasonic start pushing out their newer lines. I would not make any decisions based on this past holiday season. The sales we saw were out of control as retailers were desperate to stave off the disaster that the stock crash brought. Best Buy was actually approaching prices that Amazon and Newegg typically sat at.
The TV you picked looked good for the price. The slightly upgraded 550 will bring a better contrast ratio for an extra $90 at Amazon here if you care, but either one will be good at the sub-$1000 level.
PSN: TheScrublet
www.woot.com (3/25)
Saw you have a ps3. Does it really take full advantage of its ability to display games at 1080p? How many games actually display at 1080p?
That said, if all of the above are true/all of them then why not just wait until you could get a 1080p set to take full advantage of it? If not, then that question's irrelevant.
The comments on the right side of the home page should help you too.
Also customer service on woot isn't what you get like you would from a normal retailer. Details are in the faq.
Other than that, it depends entirely on your preferences. Post impressions if you get it!
Edit: I'm also seeing a huge "sold out" pic on that link.
PSN: TheScrublet
Almost no games offer true 1080p on either the 360 or the PS3. They usually upscale from a lower resolution. For instance, both console versions of Call of Duty 4 are actually 600p.
There might be a few games that take advantage of it, but the vast majority max out at 720p.
Blu-ray movies do take advantage of 1080p, but on a 32" TV the difference will be small unless you're sitting very close to the screen.
Does an upscaled 720p game look better on a 1080p set?
Not very likely. Sure, there will be a few, like downloadable games with simpler graphics, but for really graphically intense games, the PS3 just doesn't have the memory or horsepower to handle it.
It looks about the same.
Only blu-ray, HD-DVD, or content from your PC. I've never seen an OTA 1080p broadcast, they top out at 1080i/720p, though eventually they may go 1080p.
Edit: Also, non broadcast HD tv (satellite, cable, IPTV) doesn't seem to be 1080p either, it looks like compressed 1080i/720p content. Compress the content gives more bandwidth so they can stuff more "HD" channels in the pipe.
who new that stores didn't mark up tv sets before the superbowl and that it was the best time to buy?
Yeah. HDTV content is compressed all to hell anyway, and 1080p requires twice the bandwidth of 1080i. As it is, a standard HD broadcast (say, something on ABC, which has respectable PQ) looks just slightly better than a really good SD DVD transfer. Which is a great improvement over SD TV, which looks like someone wiped his ass on the screen.
Bluray and HD-DVD are both breathtaking, though. The difference between 1080p and 720p on a quality television large enough to show off the difference is pretty substantial. But those are some significant caveats.
Everything I said a few posts up also applies here. Yes Superbowls in general lead to a couple sales, but sales are also being driven by the low consumer spending this economy is seeing. I would expect a Samsung price drop as more new Samsung gear rolls out. I'm not sure what the deal is with that 650 anyways. If you go to Amazon, you'll notice that the 650 is $1900 but the 750 is $2050. To my eyes, the difference in those two sets is greater than $150...of course that's only been in Best Buy with THEIR calibration...
PSN: TheScrublet
the wait is killing me since i know the local dimming led vizios are right around the corner @2k.
PSN: TheScrublet
I'm 'in the market' so to speak, and am eyeing their LN46B550. Though I'm not up to speed on their product line and their website is a pain in the ass to navigate. There some pattern to the <letter><3 numbers> scheme that is a rough indication of how fancy the features are?
The first of the 3 numbers refer to the product line, so there's a 5, 6, 7, 8 and I believe now a 9 series.
It's very possible that turning off processing and such could reduce input lag, but I don't have any first-hand impressions to offer you, unfortunately.
Wait a minute - the 2009 LED-backlit models don't even do local dimming? I realize there are other advantages to LED backlighting, but local dimming was what made the LN55A950 competitive with decent plasmas. These new models sound like they're going to be on par with regular "run of the mill" high-end LCD's in terms of picture quality.
Yeah, as far as I am aware they cannot do local dimming due to the fact that they are edge-lit. Cnet reviewed one of Sony's new edge-lit LCDs and they were not impressed. I haven't seen any reviews of how Samsung's edge-lit LCDs perform in comparison, but somehow I doubt they do as well as the backlit ones.
They're not using edge lighting because it makes the TV's picture better, they're using it because it makes the TV thinner. Personally, I would rather have a TV that looks good when it's turned on than a TV that is impossibly thin just for the sake of it.
Over the next few months, Panasonic will start rolling out its plasmas. Samsung has already put out their new TVs. You may be able to find sales on their 2008 TVs as stores clear them. Since the Samsung's are already out, ads will probably only advertise the new ones, so you'll have to check stores. For Samsung, these will be LN-##A***, where ## will be a TV's size, and *** will be a three-digit number. For Panasonic, these will be TVs ending in 85, 850, 800 and 80.
PSN: TheScrublet
Stupid feature creep!
Though I will say Samsung has the easiest to peruse website of the bunch. Panasonic made me want to gouge my eyes out.
Everything I've heard has been good. I checked that link, and what little negative feedback there is suggests that should you buy it, make sure the model is correct and search for any signs that it is used. It seems legit though...after shipping that is $2800, which is a good price considering that Panasonic's new top-end 54" plasma (not the wireless one) will be $2700, and we don't know yet how that will compare to the Kuros. I'm surprised that the Kuro 5020 is still $3000+, to be honest.
Edit: You know, just for peace of mind, call 213-745-3800 (their #) and ask if that has a full manufacturer warranty and is indeed new. If the answer to either of those questions is no, walk away. If you can't get ahold of them, walk away. If you're directed to a billing system that ISN'T amazon, I'd be skeptical, all my lower-priced products on amazon marketplace have still stayed direct through amazon for billing.
PSN: TheScrublet
For what it's worth, I've got a Samsung 6 series, and I don't ever notice the various extra media features unless I deliberately look for them.
Haha! The ln46a650 just went down in price on amazon (1400 down from 1550). Any chance it'll keep going down or is it a direct result of the 2009 models coming out and thus will stay at 1400 until the 2010s?
Upside being, best buy is doing 24 months no interest right now so if you can pay the thing off in two years, it's a free loan.
About the only screens on the wall that looked better were the new 6 or 7 series, which were well over two grand. Panasonic had a nice one on the floor too, but it had a sticker that read $2500.
So I'm feeling like I got a bit of a steal on this one.
PSN: TheScrublet
I wouldn't buy an open box. They were returned for a reason most likely. I'm in the process of returning my 5020 to Amazon due to buzz. I'm sure it'll show up on their marketplace as an open box eventually.
I would suggest going to Best Buy and seeing what their prices are along with no interest financing.
Right now the 5020fd is new at Best Buy at $2300, which seems to be the floor (even online) for new models. So far I haven't seen open box turn up around here, but eventually they'll decide it's time for those floor models to go. That buzz you're talking about seems to be a common issue (via AVS reports)...some people find that it never overpowers the soundtrack, others hate it. File it under no-TV-is-perfect-yet I guess. A lot of these open-boxes are demos though, not returns. Meh.
I may take you up on the no-interest financing and just do BB and buy new...in two-three months, this wouldn't be an issue at all. I'm just not sure I want to play chicken to see if these all stick around that long. If by some chance BB drops the 5020 AT ALL in price this issue will probably become dead.
PSN: TheScrublet
Yeah the b550 is 1275 on amazon. I'm leaning towards the a650 anyway though.
How are you liking yours so far? You can turn the 120Hz on and off, right?
It's my first HD, so it's hard to give a fair comparison. With that in mind, I think it looks fantastic. Like I said, it was one of the best looking screens on the floor at best buy.. the only displays that could compare were well over two thousand dollars.
There's four options for the 120hz feature.. 'off', then three settings for the amount of processing it does (low, medium, high).
My only beef is that there's no way to disable the antenna input, so if you're trying to switch video sources you gotta navigate around it and potentially get a screen of static as you switch modes.
Awesome. I'm very tempted to pull the trigger....
PSN: TheScrublet
I'm going to have to upgrade my receiver at this point as I've got an Elite, a PS3, a PC and a Digital cable box that all need HDMI. I've got three HDMI ports but one is sadly on the front. 1080p performance in WoW was fabulous; I'm going to have a go with Xpadder to see if I can do some WoW grinding from my very comfy Poang.
If you're buying an LCD for the love of god turn 120Hz off for movies. I feel slightly sick every time I see one of these displays demoed with a movie in stores, it's just flat out not right. It's even worse than pan and scan. Just don't do it.