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If the draft ever got reinstated, should women be included?

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  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    bowen wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Now all we need is someone to insinuate that rape isn't painful.

    I could swear i saw a sig around here proclaiming that, i cant remember where though

    That would be Olivaw's.

    And guess who actually said it.... His name begins with an "E", with "ge" following it.

    Johannen on
  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I don't think there should ever be another draft, but if there is, I think females should definitely be included.

    I had an arguement with someone once who was in favor of equal rights/equality for women but still wanted men to hold the door open for women and women not to be eligible in the case of a draft. Seems to me anyone who holds that opinion is a misogynist and a fraud who claims to have jumped on the popular equal rights bandwagon just to be cool.

    Dman on
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I dunno, I think I'm fairly pro-equal rights and I believe in that whole "man should pay for the meal on dates, hold the door open for women", etc

    However in a professional environment all things should be as equal as possible

    Rent on
  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Dman wrote: »
    I don't think there should ever be another draft, but if there is, I think females should definitely be included.

    I had an arguement with someone once who was in favor of equal rights/equality for women but still wanted men to hold the door open for women and women not to be eligible in the case of a draft. Seems to me anyone who holds that opinion is a misogynist and a fraud who claims to have jumped on the popular equal rights bandwagon just to be cool.

    Those words are substantially stronger than the context you provided justifies.

    ViolentChemistry on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Rent wrote: »
    I dunno, I think I'm fairly pro-equal rights and I believe in that whole "man should pay for the meal on dates, hold the door open for women", etc

    However in a professional environment all things should be as equal as possible

    Well clearly you're a misogynist who is furthering the repression of women and attempting to cement their status as the Weaker Sex. :|

    PeregrineFalcon on
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited March 2009
    Dman wrote: »
    I don't think there should ever be another draft, but if there is, I think females should definitely be included.

    I had an arguement with someone once who was in favor of equal rights/equality for women but still wanted men to hold the door open for women and women not to be eligible in the case of a draft. Seems to me anyone who holds that opinion is a misogynist and a fraud who claims to have jumped on the popular equal rights bandwagon just to be cool.

    Those words are substantially stronger than the context you provided justifies.

    Aye, you think someone's a secret misogynist because they retain a couple of traces of 'Ladies first' manners while being broadly for equal rights? Buh?

    Bogart on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Rent wrote: »
    I dunno, I think I'm fairly pro-equal rights and I believe in that whole "man should pay for the meal on dates, hold the door open for women", etc

    However in a professional environment all things should be as equal as possible

    If men and women are equal in a professional sense, why should the man pay these days?

    Furthermore, when a man organizes everything for a date, pays for everything, does all the driving, etc. etc. it makes the girl feel indebted to the man, that she owes him something. This is how people are socialized, if someone does you a favor, you feel like you owe them one back, for the most part, especially if you like that person. However, since the man is always supposed to pay, drive, etc. in your system, what recourse does the girl have for returning the favor? Putting out, alternatively, if she doesn't put out, then she's a bitch after all you did for her. (Not saying you would think that, but it's a popular conception).

    Your man pays for everything, holds the door open for women etc. is a deeply flawed system that is dis-empowering and exploitative of women.

    Inquisitor on
  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dman wrote: »
    I don't think there should ever be another draft, but if there is, I think females should definitely be included.

    I had an arguement with someone once who was in favor of equal rights/equality for women but still wanted men to hold the door open for women and women not to be eligible in the case of a draft. Seems to me anyone who holds that opinion is a misogynist and a fraud who claims to have jumped on the popular equal rights bandwagon just to be cool.

    Those words are substantially stronger than the context you provided justifies.

    mmm, your probably right. It was a conversation in person so I guess maybe it's more the person I was remember talking to is a huge misogynist and fraud.
    There are degree's to these things, people can be misogynist without being total assholes...like my grandparents.

    Dman on
  • AsiinaAsiina ... WaterlooRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    People should hold the door for each other regardless. Who the hell just lets the door close in someone's face?

    Asiina on
  • JohannenJohannen Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Asiina wrote: »
    People should hold the door for each other regardless. Who the hell just lets the door close in someone's face?

    When you do hold the door for someone though, they should put their hand out to keep it open so you can go on. I fucking hate it when streams of people just try to walk through and leave you standing like a tit, that's when I close it on their face.

    Johannen on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Asiina wrote: »
    People should hold the door for each other regardless. Who the hell just lets the door close in someone's face?

    I agree on this count, I hold the door open for everyone. I do it out of courtesy, because they are a human being, not because they are a woman though.

    When people talk about holding doors open for women though, on say dates, it's a much more... hm, what's the word I'm looking for...formalized affair? It has more meaning behind it then me just holding a door open because someone was walking behind me when I happened upon a door we both wanted to go through.

    Inquisitor on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Dman wrote: »
    I don't think there should ever be another draft, but if there is, I think females should definitely be included.

    I had an arguement with someone once who was in favor of equal rights/equality for women but still wanted men to hold the door open for women and women not to be eligible in the case of a draft. Seems to me anyone who holds that opinion is a misogynist and a fraud who claims to have jumped on the popular equal rights bandwagon just to be cool.
    Well, it's more of a hypocritical double standard than anything else.

    Fencingsax on
  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Asiina wrote: »
    People should hold the door for each other regardless. Who the hell just lets the door close in someone's face?

    Were talking about people who intentionally go out of their way to make sure as few women as possible ever touch door handles in their presence. People aren't going to just let it close on someones face, man or woman.

    Dman on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    And we're now merging into a singularity with the lifeboat thread. Although there is less talk of killing people in here, surprisingly...

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I've been out with a girl that did all the planning/driving and paid for dinner. I have to say, I think it should happen a lot more often.

    Bama on
  • AsiinaAsiina ... WaterlooRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    I dunno, I think I'm fairly pro-equal rights and I believe in that whole "man should pay for the meal on dates, hold the door open for women", etc

    However in a professional environment all things should be as equal as possible

    If men and women are equal in a professional sense, why should the man pay these days?

    Furthermore, when a man organizes everything for a date, pays for everything, does all the driving, etc. etc. it makes the girl feel indebted to the man, that she owes him something. This is how people are socialized, if someone does you a favor, you feel like you owe them one back, for the most part, especially if you like that person. However, since the man is always supposed to pay, drive, etc. in your system, what recourse does the girl have for returning the favor? Putting out, alternatively, if she doesn't put out, then she's a bitch after all you did for her. (Not saying you would think that, but it's a popular conception).

    Your man pays for everything, holds the door open for women etc. is a deeply flawed system that is dis-empowering and exploitative of women.

    Is this a joke post cause this is pretty ridiculous.

    I believe the person who asks for the first date should be the one who pays. You are inviting someone for an activity, you should prepare all the arrangements for it. That's just general politeness. You don't invite people over for a dinner party and expect them to cook or to pay for half the groceries.

    It's still more likely that men will initiate the relationship and so end up paying for the first date, but really that's changing very quickly now.

    Asiina on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Asiina wrote: »
    Is this a joke post cause this is pretty ridiculous.

    I believe the person who asks for the first date should be the one who pays. You are inviting someone for an activity, you should prepare all the arrangements for it. That's just general politeness. You don't invite people over for a dinner party and expect them to cook or to pay for half the groceries.

    It's still more likely that men will initiate the relationship and so end up paying for the first date, but really that's changing very quickly now.

    Nah, it wasn't a joke post, nor was it limited to talking about just the first date. And there's a pretty big difference between a dinner party and going to a restaurant. :P

    Inquisitor on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    Asiina wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    I dunno, I think I'm fairly pro-equal rights and I believe in that whole "man should pay for the meal on dates, hold the door open for women", etc

    However in a professional environment all things should be as equal as possible

    If men and women are equal in a professional sense, why should the man pay these days?

    Furthermore, when a man organizes everything for a date, pays for everything, does all the driving, etc. etc. it makes the girl feel indebted to the man, that she owes him something. This is how people are socialized, if someone does you a favor, you feel like you owe them one back, for the most part, especially if you like that person. However, since the man is always supposed to pay, drive, etc. in your system, what recourse does the girl have for returning the favor? Putting out, alternatively, if she doesn't put out, then she's a bitch after all you did for her. (Not saying you would think that, but it's a popular conception).

    Your man pays for everything, holds the door open for women etc. is a deeply flawed system that is dis-empowering and exploitative of women.

    Is this a joke post cause this is pretty ridiculous.

    I believe the person who asks for the first date should be the one who pays. You are inviting someone for an activity, you should prepare all the arrangements for it. That's just general politeness. You don't invite people over for a dinner party and expect them to cook or to pay for half the groceries.

    It's still more likely that men will initiate the relationship and so end up paying for the first date, but really that's changing very quickly now.

    That's fine, but when you're talking every dang date, then yes, Obligation Issues can arise. Its easily avoided by taking turns or going dutch, and seriously what is the problem do men not like it when people they want to fuck do nice things to them that don't involve sex and hold the door for whoever is behind you and oh how I hate that these threads always, always devolve back to an endless stoush about dating etiquette among western twentysomethings

    die die die

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Rent wrote: »
    I dunno, I think I'm fairly pro-equal rights and I believe in that whole "man should pay for the meal on dates, hold the door open for women", etc

    However in a professional environment all things should be as equal as possible

    Well clearly you're a misogynist who is furthering the repression of women and attempting to cement their status as the Weaker Sex. :|

    Are...are you serious dude?

    Rent on
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Cornfield? Cornfield.Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm 5 9's sure that Falcon is not serious, and that he thinks that the bolded notion being misogynistic is silly.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Bama wrote: »
    I've been out with a girl that did all the planning/driving and paid for dinner. I have to say, I think it should happen a lot more often.

    I agree.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yes, women should do all the cooking and cleaning, and men do all the fighting.

    Hoz on
  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Wut.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm 5 9's sure that Falcon is not serious, and that he thinks that the bolded notion being misogynistic is silly.

    Yeah, I thought the ":|" cocked-eyebrow emote would have sealed it, but I forgot that this is D&D where occasionally people actually say and believe that shit straight-faced so yes I am joking. :P

    PeregrineFalcon on
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  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    All I've really got is if your girlfriend expects you to pay all expenses for every date and get every door regardless of logistics or position, I'm glad I'm not the one who has to put up with her lazy freeloading ass.

    ViolentChemistry on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    If the draft got reinstated, nobody should be included.

    Forcing an unjust policy upon all people equally does not make it just.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I always thought the "paying for dinner" thing was kind of like a present, like, "Hey let me take you out to somewhere nice my treat".

    Duffel on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    All I've really got is if your girlfriend expects you to pay all expenses for every date and get every door regardless of logistics or position, I'm glad I'm not the one who has to put up with her lazy freeloading ass.

    I remember my first date with my now-wife. I unlocked the passenger-side car door and opened it for her. As I'm walking around to the driver's side, she reaches across, pops the lock, and pulls the handle from the inside just as I'm arriving.

    <3

    PeregrineFalcon on
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited March 2009
    All I've really got is if your girlfriend expects you to pay all expenses for every date and get every door regardless of logistics or position, I'm glad I'm not the one who has to put up with her lazy freeloading ass.

    I remember my first date with my now-wife. I unlocked the passenger-side car door and opened it for her. As I'm walking around to the driver's side, she reaches across, pops the lock, and pulls the handle from the inside just as I'm arriving.

    <3

    You're Robert De Niro's son from A Bronx Tale?

    Bogart on
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm 5 9's sure that Falcon is not serious, and that he thinks that the bolded notion being misogynistic is silly.

    Yeah, I thought the ":|" cocked-eyebrow emote would have sealed it, but I forgot that this is D&D where occasionally people actually say and believe that shit straight-faced so yes I am joking. :P
    I think I would've been more attuned had Inquisitor not just said what you did, just with more words

    Rent on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Oh, and women pretty much already are serving in combat jobs. Supply corps people running convoys, people being grabbed to do perimeter security as extra duty, to say nothing of the infantry that got stationed with us that actually had four females who were far from their shittiest soldiers and definitely certainly than most of us squids playing soldier over there.

    Quid on
  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    All I've really got is if your girlfriend expects you to pay all expenses for every date and get every door regardless of logistics or position, I'm glad I'm not the one who has to put up with her lazy freeloading ass.

    I remember my first date with my now-wife. I unlocked the passenger-side car door and opened it for her. As I'm walking around to the driver's side, she reaches across, pops the lock, and pulls the handle from the inside just as I'm arriving.

    <3

    Oh god, you actually did the whole "set a trap to secretly test your date" thing from that movie?

    ViolentChemistry on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Bogart wrote: »
    You're Robert De Niro's son from A Bronx Tale?

    Either that or she'd seen the movie. :P

    PeregrineFalcon on
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  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Oh god, you actually did the whole "set a trap to secretly test your date" thing from that movie?

    No, I didn't have keyless entry on my car.

    PeregrineFalcon on
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  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Oh god, you actually did the whole "set a trap to secretly test your date" thing from that movie?

    No, I didn't have keyless entry on my car.

    Which makes setting the trap even more work.

    ViolentChemistry on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Oh god, you actually did the whole "set a trap to secretly test your date" thing from that movie?

    No, I didn't have keyless entry on my car.

    Which makes setting the trap even more work.

    Except that I didn't do it on purpose, it just worked out that way.

    PeregrineFalcon on
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    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Bunch of people do, and seem to be real proud of themselves for it.

    ViolentChemistry on
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The Cat wrote: »
    Johannen wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    MikeMan wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Christo, I thought military service was at least partly about drilling the idiocy out of people and making them all responsible and shit? Sounds like those women need all the boot camp they can get.

    I do find it interesting that in your world, there are no idiotic useless men. And when I say interesting I mean bigoted and blinkered. Idiot.
    Maybe you could follow the fucking rules of this forum.

    Maybe that'd be great.
    Fancy taking your own advice, captain contribution?

    Are you actually using the "No, you are!" response to someone telling you to follow the rules?
    I break a minor one in a mild fashion while contributing to a thread over many posts, and I'm expected to kowtow to some fucking driveby who won't even post his own opinion? Fuck that. Never mind that mike's never been hesitant to hold off on the namecalling his own self. So I'm going to add another one: "hypocrite".
    Seems like you don't read my posts much. I don't do that and I hate it when people do. Sorry!

    MikeMan on
  • MikeManMikeMan Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Anyway to ward off the drive by comments, I think women should most certainly be drafted. Also, I think the physical fitness tests for women should be the same as for men in the military.

    MikeMan on
  • Toxin01Toxin01 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    No.

    And If a draft started up, I would laugh so much at all the crazy Obama supporters who's kids get to go and die.

    Toxin01 on
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