Since the point of the whole OP is about beauty, was beauty ever defined in the OP? I couldn't find one.
But since it's Flippy's sig, I'll mention I had a love for Nausicaa, who's 2D. In video games, I had a love for Celes of FFIII/VI. I found both of them beautiful. But my current definition of beautiful is attractive. So I can't really reply well without knowing what the OP means by beautiful.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
People love to flog the Uncanny Valley every fucking time they see a decent image that's computer generated, but I call bullshit. Do you scream at the sight of
Now, it's not a perfect representation,it's far from it. But it's not some special kind of offputting because it's not perfect.
You don't really get Uncanny Valley, do you?
The uncanny valley does not mean "imperfect representation of a human". I ask again, describe what freaks the hell out of you about every portrait ever painted.
The uncanny valley is an overused rule of thumb that's primarily used as a catchphrase when people don't actually know what they want to say about a picture.
People love to flog the Uncanny Valley every fucking time they see a decent image that's computer generated, but I call bullshit. Do you scream at the sight of
Now, it's not a perfect representation,it's far from it. But it's not some special kind of offputting because it's not perfect.
You don't really get Uncanny Valley, do you?
The uncanny valley does not mean "imperfect representation of a human". I ask again, describe what freaks the hell out of you about every portrait ever painted.
The uncanny valley is an overused rule of thumb that's primarily used as a catchphrase when people don't actually know what they want to say about a picture.
Actually, in the context of this thread, specifically discussing attraction and beauty with respect to (primarily) female avatars in video games, using the uncanny valley example is perfectly valid. Furthermore, in my initial post I indicated the specific areas that freaked me the fuck out about the digital Kristen, I don't recall saying "loluncannyvalley" and hitting Submit Reply.
The reason that portraits, paintings, or for that matter stylized or less-technologically advanced computer/game renderings don't provoke the same reaction is because while they're still representing a human, they're not attempting to create a perfect facsimile.
Plus, nearly goddamn everyone knows what the idea behind the "uncanny valley" is and by using it as a valid example with justification I wouldn't have to essentially rehash the theory verbatim.
People love to flog the Uncanny Valley every fucking time they see a decent image that's computer generated, but I call bullshit. Do you scream at the sight of
Now, it's not a perfect representation,it's far from it. But it's not some special kind of offputting because it's not perfect.
You don't really get Uncanny Valley, do you?
The uncanny valley does not mean "imperfect representation of a human". I ask again, describe what freaks the hell out of you about every portrait ever painted.
The uncanny valley is an overused rule of thumb that's primarily used as a catchphrase when people don't actually know what they want to say about a picture.
So that would be a yes.
It's the idea that as something gets closer to being human while not being human, the more unnerving it gets. This is because there's fallacies with said thing that aren't blatantly obvious. The issues with the painting are as obvious as it is that you don't understand the term you're lambasting.
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or the easily disturbed)
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or people who don't want to look at a 10-yo in the nude)
Not the same.
Just sayin'.
Not to pick on you or anything, but what is it about our society that illicits this kind of reaction from controversial sexuality, but not controversial violence?
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or the easily disturbed)
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or people who don't want to look at a 10-yo in the nude)
Not the same.
Just sayin'.
Not to pick on you or anything, but what is it about our society that illicits this kind of reaction from controversial sexuality, but not controversial violence?
That's actually a rhetorical question.
There are plenty of people who would be equally offended (or even more offended) by a similar picture that instead of depicting a naked 10 year old girl depicted a 10 year old girl being brutalized
It's the idea that as something gets closer to being human while not being human, the more unnerving it gets. This is because there's fallacies with said thing that aren't blatantly obvious. The issues with the painting are as obvious as it is that you don't understand the term you're lambasting.
Fine: This image
Is it uncanny? Can you feel the uncannyness? Or is it a photograph, with no uncannyness whatsoever?
My point is that although the uncanny valley is a decent rule of thumb, there is not some sort of scientifically understood law that as you approach a realistic image while not perfectly producing one, you "freak people out". Frequently, in fact, you simply produce images that while containing flaws are completely acceptable to everyone. Hence, why no one looks at say the Mona Lisa and says "oh man she freaks me out! uncanny valley!"
Which I think can very easily be carried over to animated 3d models. Trying to apply the uncanny valley principle to still images I think is hard but it is much easier to demonstrate with things that are in motion.
LittleBoots on
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
Man they hit Uncanny Valley fucking hard in that ACII shot
Which is, I think, the main difference between 3D and 2D "beauty"
It is so, so much easier to make 3D models look, instead of beautiful, really fucking creepy. The line is much finer
Like, probably the closest 2D piece of artwork that hits Uncanny Valley I've seen is Mona Lisa. Still creeps me out a bit
Is it uncanny? Can you feel the uncannyness? Or is it a photograph, with no uncannyness whatsoever?
My point is that although the uncanny valley is a decent rule of thumb, there is not some sort of scientifically understood law that as you approach a realistic image while not perfectly producing one, you "freak people out". Frequently, in fact, you simply produce images that while containing flaws are completely acceptable to everyone. Hence, why no one looks at say the Mona Lisa and says "oh man she freaks me out! uncanny valley!"
It's not 'freaking you out'. It's a very obvious point between realism and imitation that draws to mind the thought 'that isn't real', or 'oh, that's trying too hard', or 'oh, that's obvious that's not real'. When you watch a cartoon you aren't thinking that it's not real, because it's not intended to be, but when something is close, but not quite, the brain recognises that and draws your attention to it mroe than anything else in the image.
Willeth on
@vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming! @gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I don't think the question is 'Is she hot?' but 'Is she beautiful?"
I think Yuna is a beautiful character. Terra, sorta. But I don't think Tifa is- far too "HEY GUISE BREASTS AND FIGHTIN"
No. Die.
When Tifa used to look like this, I would agree to a certain extent.
But with the redesign, she's no longer just "hot", but physically attractive too.
Rikku is another example of balancing between "sexy" and "attractive", at least until her thong-wearing outfit teetered that balance right into oblivion.
Anyway, I find the whole debate about whether it's okay to find videogame characters attractive silly, for the sole reason that comic books, another fictional medium, established this decades before it became a fad in games.
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or the easily disturbed)
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or people who don't want to look at a 10-yo in the nude)
Not the same.
Just sayin'.
Not to pick on you or anything, but what is it about our society that illicits this kind of reaction from controversial sexuality, but not controversial violence?
That's actually a rhetorical question.
Looking at pictures of controversial violence doesn't get you imprisoned in some countries.
Thanks a lot for that link. Now my soul is screaming.
On the plus side, my life doesn't seem remotely as pathetic now.
I don't know, I kinda feel for the guy. Yeah, it's totally creepy, but he had to have been in a pretty fragile state of mind to become genuinely attracted to it. And he knows it's just a pillow. It's still weird, though.
Taking bets on how long before someome comments about spinning a web..on her face
Wait, I just did it. Fuck
Look out! Here comes the Spiderman ...
... here he comes, oh yeah, the Spiderman's coming
:winky:
Should've used "Peter's spirits begin to rise".
Like Tifa, I found MJ's supermodel body and kinky personality a bit of a disservice. As much as I hate Quesada's decision to wipe their relationship from existence, I do agree that it's odd for everynerd Peter Parker managing to snag such a hottie. It was especially jarring when Erik Larson drew her with the five foot Peggy Bundy hair.
This is why I much prefer Ultimate MJ. Underage jokes aside, she works much better as the hot-but-homely highschool sweetheart role. If I could find a scan of the "makeout under the bleachers" page, I'd post it here.
As for mangaverse MJ...
What the fuck is this shit. That's some fanwankery right here.
If you want to get technical too, the claim that only 'freaks' get turned on by artificial images is flawed to begin with. Airbrushing say... Playboy playmates is essentially photoshoping them. Very, very few girls look like that to begin with. How 'real' that image is, is completely subjective.
I don't know how old she is, and I don't care.
But the Cat chick in Heavenly Sword is very boner inducing in a "younger hotter less creepier than Feruza Balk" way.
If you want to get technical too, the claim that only 'freaks' get turned on by artificial images is flawed to begin with. Airbrushing say... Playboy playmates is essentially photoshoping them. Very, very few girls look like that to begin with. How 'real' that image is, is completely subjective.
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or the easily disturbed)
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or people who don't want to look at a 10-yo in the nude)
Not the same.
Just sayin'.
Not to pick on you or anything, but what is it about our society that illicits this kind of reaction from controversial sexuality, but not controversial violence?
That's actually a rhetorical question.
A rhetorical question is one where the answer is yes or no and we all suppose what everyone is thinking. I don't think your question is rhetorical. Besides, there's no moral difference between a child being exploited sexually or a child being hurt in a video game. They're both taboo. You can't compare adults to children in this context, that's apples & oranges.
But the reason why I think my lucky stars I hadn't clicked on the link (if it really is what people are hinting at) was that I might end up in jail. Seriously, why'd you post that Flippy? I think you crossed the line on that one. Maybe the laws are different across the pond, but show some sense for the rest of us. I've been infracted by mods for less.
Actually I was going for the old cartoon theme song. "Here comes the Spidermaaaaaaaaan" *aww skeet skeet skeet*
Like Tifa, I found MJ's supermodel body and kinky personality a bit of a disservice.
Ever dated a redhead?
It kinda comes with the territory.
Nope, and Peter should fuck off for taking such a thing for granted.
Then again, that's another Spidey/FFVII parallel, but I always felt that Spidey might have been an inspiration for that game.
Tough hero/closet loser has love triangle between dainty, good-natured girl and superhot, sexy girl nextdoor girl. Leans toward first choice, who then tragically dies, ends up with second choice.
Establishes loving relationship with second choice, but occasionally gets all mopey over losing first choice. Eventually ruins a good thing with his emo shit, devil resets world (though thankfully Cloud hasn't gone that route....yet).
Wouldn't surprise me if they admitted a link.
Anyway, a worse offender is X-Men's Rogue.
"Horny southern playmate in skin-tight clothing who really, REALLY wants to have sex with someone, ANYONE, but can't. Constantly teases about said impairment."
Which, again, is why I prefer movie Rogue.
"Introverted teenage girl gains horrible impairment as soon as puberty hits, is disowned by family and desires the warmth, familial bond from someone, ANYONE."
And before you bring up the "real person vs drawing" debate, keep in mind the 2nd choice has been carried over to various continuities of X-Men. Point being I prefer that Rogue more, even though I was a big fan of the original for a time.
Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
Some people mentioned earlier in this thread that video game characters and the likes aren't art because they clearly were designed to attract to a target audience (young males in this case), something I do not agree with because by that logic this
and this
should not be considered art either. Or must it have to be thousands of years old to be recogniced as such? Art is not something you have to like.
Nope, and Peter should fuck off for taking such a thing for granted.
Do it, but be ready to fake your own death and accept a new identity if you're the one that has to dump her. The crazy extends to all aspects. :P
Anyway, a worse offender is X-Men's Rogue.
"Horny southern playmate in skin-tight clothing who really, REALLY wants to have sex with someone, ANYONE, but can't. Constantly teases about said impairment."
Which, again, is why I prefer movie Rogue.
"Introverted teenage girl gains horrible impairment as soon as puberty hits, is disowned by family and desires the warmth, familial bond from someone, ANYONE."
And before you bring up the "real person vs drawing" debate, keep in mind the 2nd choice has been carried over to various continuities of X-Men. Point being I prefer that Rogue more, even though I was a big fan of the original for a time.
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or the easily disturbed)
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or people who don't want to look at a 10-yo in the nude)
Not the same.
Just sayin'.
Not to pick on you or anything, but what is it about our society that illicits this kind of reaction from controversial sexuality, but not controversial violence?
That's actually a rhetorical question.
A rhetorical question is one where the answer is yes or no and we all suppose what everyone is thinking. I don't think your question is rhetorical. Besides, there's no moral difference between a child being exploited sexually or a child being hurt in a video game. They're both taboo. You can't compare adults to children in this context, that's apples & oranges.
But the reason why I think my lucky stars I hadn't clicked on the link (if it really is what people are hinting at) was that I might end up in jail. Seriously, why'd you post that Flippy? I think you crossed the line on that one. Maybe the laws are different across the pond, but show some sense for the rest of us. I've been infracted by mods for less.
I think the laws are pretty similar, and I'm not sure where you're at but in the US just because there is a picture of someone nude it does not automatically make it porn regardless of the subjects age. Now, I have no idea where he got that picture from or what category it falls under (artistic nude or porn but I'm guessing artistic nude) but I think saying that you will end up in jail because you clicked on it is a bit of hyperbole. But I do agree there should have been more of a warning than just NSFW.
LittleBoots on
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
Nope, and Peter should fuck off for taking such a thing for granted.
Do it, but be ready to fake your own death and accept a new identity if you're the one that has to dump her. The crazy extends to all aspects. :P
Anyway, a worse offender is X-Men's Rogue.
"Horny southern playmate in skin-tight clothing who really, REALLY wants to have sex with someone, ANYONE, but can't. Constantly teases about said impairment."
Which, again, is why I prefer movie Rogue.
"Introverted teenage girl gains horrible impairment as soon as puberty hits, is disowned by family and desires the warmth, familial bond from someone, ANYONE."
And before you bring up the "real person vs drawing" debate, keep in mind the 2nd choice has been carried over to various continuities of X-Men. Point being I prefer that Rogue more, even though I was a big fan of the original for a time.
Also the bemusement of some people in the thread is exactly what I'd like to investigate. Why indeed is it so 'sad' to find game characters physically attractive (erotic)? What's the ontology of that?
It's mainly, I think, due to the immaturity of the medium. Games are only just becoming established as acceptable leisure activity to the majority, and in ten years I'm sure critics will look back at characters like Alyx Vance and recognise them for the push into maturity that we know right now. But up until now, there's been no reason to try and attack this kind of thing.
Yeah, it's stuff like this that detracts from gaming being taken seriously: Jiggle Physics
I can appreciate that some programmer probably took a lot of time to implement this; I just can't help but find it slightly creepy. :?
Posts
But since it's Flippy's sig, I'll mention I had a love for Nausicaa, who's 2D. In video games, I had a love for Celes of FFIII/VI. I found both of them beautiful. But my current definition of beautiful is attractive. So I can't really reply well without knowing what the OP means by beautiful.
You're not going to find your definition of it, I can tell you that
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Actually, in the context of this thread, specifically discussing attraction and beauty with respect to (primarily) female avatars in video games, using the uncanny valley example is perfectly valid. Furthermore, in my initial post I indicated the specific areas that freaked me the fuck out about the digital Kristen, I don't recall saying "loluncannyvalley" and hitting Submit Reply.
The reason that portraits, paintings, or for that matter stylized or less-technologically advanced computer/game renderings don't provoke the same reaction is because while they're still representing a human, they're not attempting to create a perfect facsimile.
Plus, nearly goddamn everyone knows what the idea behind the "uncanny valley" is and by using it as a valid example with justification I wouldn't have to essentially rehash the theory verbatim.
Oh wait.
Yiff in hell etc.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
(VERY VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK or people who don't want to look at a 10-yo in the nude)
Not the same.
Just sayin'.
It's the idea that as something gets closer to being human while not being human, the more unnerving it gets. This is because there's fallacies with said thing that aren't blatantly obvious. The issues with the painting are as obvious as it is that you don't understand the term you're lambasting.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
stop the fursecution
Not to pick on you or anything, but what is it about our society that illicits this kind of reaction from controversial sexuality, but not controversial violence?
That's actually a rhetorical question.
Is it uncanny? Can you feel the uncannyness? Or is it a photograph, with no uncannyness whatsoever?
My point is that although the uncanny valley is a decent rule of thumb, there is not some sort of scientifically understood law that as you approach a realistic image while not perfectly producing one, you "freak people out". Frequently, in fact, you simply produce images that while containing flaws are completely acceptable to everyone. Hence, why no one looks at say the Mona Lisa and says "oh man she freaks me out! uncanny valley!"
never
Also: stop being dumb, durandal
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
As applied to robots...
Which I think can very easily be carried over to animated 3d models. Trying to apply the uncanny valley principle to still images I think is hard but it is much easier to demonstrate with things that are in motion.
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
Actually, in my experience, they kinda do.
Also, as xa52 pointed out, that shit in the OP needs a more suitable warning. I was expecting "pixel boobies, LOL".
It's not 'freaking you out'. It's a very obvious point between realism and imitation that draws to mind the thought 'that isn't real', or 'oh, that's trying too hard', or 'oh, that's obvious that's not real'. When you watch a cartoon you aren't thinking that it's not real, because it's not intended to be, but when something is close, but not quite, the brain recognises that and draws your attention to it mroe than anything else in the image.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
No. Die.
When Tifa used to look like this, I would agree to a certain extent.
But with the redesign, she's no longer just "hot", but physically attractive too.
Rikku is another example of balancing between "sexy" and "attractive", at least until her thong-wearing outfit teetered that balance right into oblivion.
Anyway, I find the whole debate about whether it's okay to find videogame characters attractive silly, for the sole reason that comic books, another fictional medium, established this decades before it became a fad in games.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
The spider-man bikini tops it.
Hur hur, pun.
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Looking at pictures of controversial violence doesn't get you imprisoned in some countries.
Spoken like someone who hasn't watched nicolas cage's career slowly dying in front of our eyes!
pleasepaypreacher.net
Look out! Here comes the Spiderman ...
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I don't know, I kinda feel for the guy. Yeah, it's totally creepy, but he had to have been in a pretty fragile state of mind to become genuinely attracted to it. And he knows it's just a pillow. It's still weird, though.
Should've used "Peter's spirits begin to rise".
Like Tifa, I found MJ's supermodel body and kinky personality a bit of a disservice. As much as I hate Quesada's decision to wipe their relationship from existence, I do agree that it's odd for everynerd Peter Parker managing to snag such a hottie. It was especially jarring when Erik Larson drew her with the five foot Peggy Bundy hair.
This is why I much prefer Ultimate MJ. Underage jokes aside, she works much better as the hot-but-homely highschool sweetheart role. If I could find a scan of the "makeout under the bleachers" page, I'd post it here.
As for mangaverse MJ...
What the fuck is this shit. That's some fanwankery right here.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Actually I was going for the old cartoon theme song. "Here comes the Spidermaaaaaaaaan" *aww skeet skeet skeet*
Ever dated a redhead?
It kinda comes with the territory.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
But the Cat chick in Heavenly Sword is very boner inducing in a "younger hotter less creepier than Feruza Balk" way.
Directly Related:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U
A rhetorical question is one where the answer is yes or no and we all suppose what everyone is thinking. I don't think your question is rhetorical. Besides, there's no moral difference between a child being exploited sexually or a child being hurt in a video game. They're both taboo. You can't compare adults to children in this context, that's apples & oranges.
But the reason why I think my lucky stars I hadn't clicked on the link (if it really is what people are hinting at) was that I might end up in jail. Seriously, why'd you post that Flippy? I think you crossed the line on that one. Maybe the laws are different across the pond, but show some sense for the rest of us. I've been infracted by mods for less.
Nope, and Peter should fuck off for taking such a thing for granted.
Then again, that's another Spidey/FFVII parallel, but I always felt that Spidey might have been an inspiration for that game.
Tough hero/closet loser has love triangle between dainty, good-natured girl and superhot, sexy girl nextdoor girl. Leans toward first choice, who then tragically dies, ends up with second choice.
Establishes loving relationship with second choice, but occasionally gets all mopey over losing first choice. Eventually ruins a good thing with his emo shit, devil resets world (though thankfully Cloud hasn't gone that route....yet).
Wouldn't surprise me if they admitted a link.
Anyway, a worse offender is X-Men's Rogue.
"Horny southern playmate in skin-tight clothing who really, REALLY wants to have sex with someone, ANYONE, but can't. Constantly teases about said impairment."
Which, again, is why I prefer movie Rogue.
"Introverted teenage girl gains horrible impairment as soon as puberty hits, is disowned by family and desires the warmth, familial bond from someone, ANYONE."
And before you bring up the "real person vs drawing" debate, keep in mind the 2nd choice has been carried over to various continuities of X-Men. Point being I prefer that Rogue more, even though I was a big fan of the original for a time.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
and this
should not be considered art either. Or must it have to be thousands of years old to be recogniced as such? Art is not something you have to like.
Do it, but be ready to fake your own death and accept a new identity if you're the one that has to dump her. The crazy extends to all aspects. :P
Three words.
Full. Body. Condom.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I think the laws are pretty similar, and I'm not sure where you're at but in the US just because there is a picture of someone nude it does not automatically make it porn regardless of the subjects age. Now, I have no idea where he got that picture from or what category it falls under (artistic nude or porn but I'm guessing artistic nude) but I think saying that you will end up in jail because you clicked on it is a bit of hyperbole. But I do agree there should have been more of a warning than just NSFW.
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
Oh yes, every time Gambit and Rogue get into that whole "can't touch you" debate, I ALWAYS play this scene in my head.
Seriously, with a Trojan brand or something, it shouldn't be hard to feel pleasure even without skin contact.
But I guess that shows what a fucking tease the bitch is.
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Jiggle Physics
I can appreciate that some programmer probably took a lot of time to implement this; I just can't help but find it slightly creepy. :?