Not about rape. This is about how if you are famous and rich, you can get away with anything in this country. Happens with drugs, speeding, murder, just about any crime. This is about being rich.
-Republican Senators who didn't think rape was a big enough reason to stop doing business with Halliburton. Senators! If that isn't evidence of acceptance--or at least insufficient outrage over--rape from the highest echelons of our society than I cannot help you.
Nope, not about rape. This is about how defense contractors get away with everything because of money. Polution, robbing the nation blind, killing people. You can't hone in here on one thing.
-The fact that there were a dozen witnesses to the crime talked about in the OP but nobody responded.
This often happens with all sorts of crimes, rape isn't the only one. This is a problem with crime in general.
Our society is fucked up for a number of reasons. And this tends to enable all sorts of criminal activity and people get away with it for the same reasons. To hone in on just rape, and then scream at the top of your lungs it's because rape is OK in our society, is utterly dishonest.
In what way? What aspect of our society in any way fails to discourage rape or implicitly even condones the practice, other than incredibly fringe groups, such as gang members? Rapes are treated very, very seriously by police and prosecutors. And even the accusation of rape, even if false, is incredibly devastating and tends to turn the accused into a social pariah.
Are you serious with the bold part?
Sure. They're tough to prosecute, given the nature of the crimes, but they typically fall under the rubric of police units that deal with major crimes. In some police forces, there are specific units tasked with dealing with sexually-based offenses (and not just in Law and Order spinoffs).
They're basically treated like homicides in their importance.
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Bang Bros does not tread anywhere close to rape. In 90% of their videos the women are all presented as professional porn actresses, who enjoy themselves. The other 10% are of the demeaning bang bus variety. Not my thing, but it's definitely not rape or anything close to rape.
[...]
Still not seeing a connection to rape.
The Bang Bus videos send a message that it is okay to hold women captive and pressure them into having sex. That's awfully close to rape.
I don't recall anybody being held captive in those videos. I seem to recall ones where the girls refuse to go farther and then get it, so they go get another one though. And these girls consenting for a cash payment of some sort.
-Roman Polanski rape apologists (including Whoopi Goldberg)
-Republican Senators who didn't think rape was a big enough reason to stop doing business with Halliburton. Senators! If that isn't evidence of acceptance--or at least insufficient outrage over--rape from the highest echelons of our society than I cannot help you.
-The fact that there were a dozen witnesses to the crime talked about in the OP but nobody responded.
-Atmosphere of shame and fear that prevents rape victims from reporting the crimes against them.
-The roman polanski rape apologists are disgusting people. I also personally know nobody who defended him.
-The republican senators thing is about money and government contractors. Yes, fucked up, but saying its a straight defense of rape is misleading at best. Again, I don't know any senators. Everyone I know thought that entire episode was very fucked up and a terrible thing.
-The dozen witnesses thing - I think you need to realize that this happens all the time with things that are not rape, We actually studied the effect in a sociology class. It has little to do specifically with rape.
- I'm with you on the reporting stuff. Doesn't mean we have a "culture of rape" though.
The fact that rape is against the law has no bearing on society's attitudes towards rape fyi. The justice system that you seem to put so much stock in exists within the rape culture, just like everything else!
So, we have laws making rape a serious felony, with sentences up to life in prison. We have educational and societal pressure that makes rape an incredibly bad thing in the eyes of pretty much anyone. Accusations of rape can ruin a person, even if the accusations end up being untrue.
So, if rape is highly illegal and considered a bad thing by pretty much everyone, how the heck can you say we live in a rape culture?
Hell, when was the last time a rapist was portrayed in a positive light in any context?
Rape is obviously another counter-culture. Like goth and scene kids.
The fact that rape is against the law has no bearing on society's attitudes towards rape fyi. The justice system that you seem to put so much stock in exists within the rape culture, just like everything else!
So, we have laws making rape a serious felony, with sentences up to life in prison. We have educational and societal pressure that makes rape an incredibly bad thing in the eyes of pretty much anyone. Accusations of rape can ruin a person, even if the accusations end up being untrue.
So, if rape is highly illegal and considered a bad thing by pretty much everyone, how the heck can you say we live in a rape culture?
Hell, when was the last time a rapist was portrayed in a positive light in any context?
Bang Bros does not tread anywhere close to rape. In 90% of their videos the women are all presented as professional porn actresses, who enjoy themselves. The other 10% are of the demeaning bang bus variety. Not my thing, but it's definitely not rape or anything close to rape.
[...]
Still not seeing a connection to rape.
The Bang Bus videos send a message that it is okay to hold women captive and pressure them into having sex. That's awfully close to rape.
I don't recall anybody being held captive in those videos. I seem to recall ones where the girls refuse to go farther and then get it, so they go get another one though. And these girls consenting for a cash payment of some sort.
-Roman Polanski rape apologists (including Whoopi Goldberg)
-Republican Senators who didn't think rape was a big enough reason to stop doing business with Halliburton. Senators! If that isn't evidence of acceptance--or at least insufficient outrage over--rape from the highest echelons of our society than I cannot help you.
-The fact that there were a dozen witnesses to the crime talked about in the OP but nobody responded.
-Atmosphere of shame and fear that prevents rape victims from reporting the crimes against them.
-The roman polanski rape apologists are disgusting people. I also personally know nobody who defended him.
-The republican senators thing is about money and government contractors. Yes, fucked up, but saying its a straight defense of rape is misleading at best. Again, I don't know any senators. Everyone I know thought that entire episode was very fucked up and a terrible thing.
-The dozen witnesses thing - I think you need to realize that this happens all the time with things that are not rape, We actually studied the effect in a sociology class. It has little to do specifically with rape.
- I'm with you on the reporting stuff. Doesn't mean we have a "culture of rape" though.
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
The fact that rape is against the law has no bearing on society's attitudes towards rape fyi. The justice system that you seem to put so much stock in exists within the rape culture, just like everything else!
So, we have laws making rape a serious felony, with sentences up to life in prison. We have educational and societal pressure that makes rape an incredibly bad thing in the eyes of pretty much anyone. Accusations of rape can ruin a person, even if the accusations end up being untrue.
So, if rape is highly illegal and considered a bad thing by pretty much everyone, how the heck can you say we live in a rape culture?
Hell, when was the last time a rapist was portrayed in a positive light in any context?
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
And I don't think that those cultural elements exist.
People with fame and money can get away with anything, including rape. and murder.
In what way? What aspect of our society in any way fails to discourage rape or implicitly even condones the practice, other than incredibly fringe groups, such as gang members? Rapes are treated very, very seriously by police and prosecutors. And even the accusation of rape, even if false, is incredibly devastating and tends to turn the accused into a social pariah.
Are you serious with the bold part?
Sure. They're tough to prosecute, given the nature of the crimes, but they typically fall under the rubric of police units that deal with major crimes. In some police forces, there are specific units tasked with dealing with sexually-based offenses (and not just in Law and Order spinoffs).
They're basically treated like homicides in their importance.
Man, okay, we get it, you love the justice system
But having a sex-offense unit doesn't negate the existence of a rape culture
Bang Bros does not tread anywhere close to rape. In 90% of their videos the women are all presented as professional porn actresses, who enjoy themselves. The other 10% are of the demeaning bang bus variety. Not my thing, but it's definitely not rape or anything close to rape.
[...]
Still not seeing a connection to rape.
The Bang Bus videos send a message that it is okay to hold women captive and pressure them into having sex. That's awfully close to rape.
I don't recall anybody being held captive in those videos. I seem to recall ones where the girls refuse to go farther and then get it, so they go get another one though. And these girls consenting for a cash payment of some sort.
The women are inside a vehicle that is often moving, in traffic, on busy streets. It's not like they can just open the door and hop out. Even then, hopping out would leave them stranded far from where they started, and nowhere near their apparent destination. On top of that, they're usually outnumbered three to one by the men in the car. Sure, they aren't locked and barred in, but they are absolutely captive.
As for the cash payment, isn't part of the narrative that they never actually get the money? That sends the message that it's okay to make false promises in exchange for sex, which is also highly problematic.
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
And I don't think that those cultural elements exist.
People with fame and money can get away with anything, including rape. and murder.
Do you honestly believe that if Roman Polanski had plead guilty to killing a 13-year-old girl, there would have been a Hollywood petition to let him go free?
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
Which is so broad a definition as to be meaningless. We have cultural elements (such as NAMBLA) that promote, defend and excuse sex with kids. Do we live in a pedophilia culture? We have cultural elements that promote, defend and excuse the murder of "snitches." Do we live in a snitch-murdering culture?
In a nation of 300 million people, I'm sure you can find a group of people who promote, defend and excuse pretty much any terrible thing you can think of.
But, until such views become at least somewhat mainstream, it's inaccurate to claim that we live in a culture of whatever horrible activity you want to name.
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Who gives a shit about what your personal friends thought about Polanski or Halliburton? If the rich and powerful are pulling the strings and the rich and powerful are tacitly saying rape is OK, then doesn't that just lend the rape culture argument even more credence?
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
And I don't think that those cultural elements exist.
People with fame and money can get away with anything, including rape. and murder.
There are plenty of examples to indicate that elements of that culture DO exist. Look at, for instance, the Duke lacrosse case. I believe PLENTY of people were commenting negatively about the accusers in that case long before a legal ruling was reached.
I take issue with the assumption that it is therefore THE culture we live in. As evidence by the fact that plenty of OTHER people were quick to sympathize with the accusers in that case and demonize the lacrosse players.
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
And I don't think that those cultural elements exist.
People with fame and money can get away with anything, including rape. and murder.
Since I can't edit, need to do this.
Some cultural elements do exist. Like casting doubt on victims. But frankly, that's largely the fault of the people screaming about "rape culture" because they decided that women are not capable enough to handle themselves from drinking.
I watched an absolutely insane video about date rape in my freshman orientation. Girl goes to a party to meet up with a guy, they get drunk there, hooks up (she apparently maybe blacked out), and he wasnt in bed with her because he had to go take care of some shit - so she decides to ruin his life by crying rape.
This is the kind of shit that the women studies majors put out. and it delegitimizes real rape victims. and I cannot tell you how fucking angry I am about that.
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
And I don't think that those cultural elements exist.
People with fame and money can get away with anything, including rape. and murder.
Since I can't edit, need to do this.
Some cultural elements do exist. Like casting doubt on victims. But frankly, that's largely the fault of the people screaming about "rape culture" because they decided that women are not capable enough to handle themselves from drinking.
I watched an absolutely insane video about date rape in my freshman orientation. Girl goes to a party to meet up with a guy, they get drunk there, hooks up (she apparently maybe blacked out), and he wasnt in bed with her because he had to go take care of some shit - so she decides to ruin his life by crying rape.
This is the kind of shit that the women studies majors put out. and it delegitimizes real rape victims. and I cannot tell you how fucking angry I am about that.
By drawing a bright line between "real rape victims" and "fakers", and by blaming victims for victim blaming (:!:), you're directly implicating yourself in rape culture.
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HachfaceNot the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking ofDammit, Shepard!Registered Userregular
And I don't think that those cultural elements exist.
People with fame and money can get away with anything, including rape. and murder.
Since I can't edit, need to do this.
Some cultural elements do exist. Like casting doubt on victims. But frankly, that's largely the fault of the people screaming about "rape culture" because they decided that women are not capable enough to handle themselves from drinking.
Really? It's people concerned about rape culture that are casting aspersions on rape victims? Is that really what you're saying?
I watched an absolutely insane video about date rape in my freshman orientation. Girl goes to a party to meet up with a guy, they get drunk there, hooks up (she apparently maybe blacked out), and he wasnt in bed with her because he had to go take care of some shit - so she decides to ruin his life by crying rape.
This is the kind of shit that the women studies majors put out. and it delegitimizes real rape victims. and I cannot tell you how fucking angry I am about that.
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
And I don't think that those cultural elements exist.
People with fame and money can get away with anything, including rape. and murder.
Do you honestly believe that if Roman Polanski had plead guilty to killing a 13-year-old girl, there would have been a Hollywood petition to let him go free?
Bang Bros does not tread anywhere close to rape. In 90% of their videos the women are all presented as professional porn actresses, who enjoy themselves. The other 10% are of the demeaning bang bus variety. Not my thing, but it's definitely not rape or anything close to rape.
[...]
Still not seeing a connection to rape.
The Bang Bus videos send a message that it is okay to hold women captive and pressure them into having sex. That's awfully close to rape.
I don't recall anybody being held captive in those videos. I seem to recall ones where the girls refuse to go farther and then get it, so they go get another one though. And these girls consenting for a cash payment of some sort.
The women are inside a vehicle that is often moving, in traffic, on busy streets. It's not like they can just open the door and hop out. Even then, hopping out would leave them stranded far from where they started, and nowhere near their apparent destination. On top of that, they're usually outnumbered three to one by the men in the car. Sure, they aren't locked and barred in, but they are absolutely captive.
As for the cash payment, isn't part of the narrative that they never actually get the money? That sends the message that it's okay to make false promises in exchange for sex, which is also highly problematic.
dude, in a lot of those videos they stop the van and a woman gets out, because she was only wiling to flash some titties or something. They aint sending the message of "YOURE IN A RAPE VAN".
The people who believe there is a rape culture have a good point. The traditional imbalance of power in a patriarchial society make prosecuting and being a victim of rape harder than it should be. Their fault is taking that one fact, and extrapolating it with anecdotal data, confusing causation and correlation, and a lot of "when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail" reasoning. There is plenty to support the first conclusion, but trying to paint a culture as therefore accepting, permissive, and supporting of rape has not had adequate evidence supplied to be taken seriously.
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
And I don't think that those cultural elements exist.
People with fame and money can get away with anything, including rape. and murder.
Since I can't edit, need to do this.
Some cultural elements do exist. Like casting doubt on victims. But frankly, that's largely the fault of the people screaming about "rape culture" because they decided that women are not capable enough to handle themselves from drinking.
I watched an absolutely insane video about date rape in my freshman orientation. Girl goes to a party to meet up with a guy, they get drunk there, hooks up (she apparently maybe blacked out), and he wasnt in bed with her because he had to go take care of some shit - so she decides to ruin his life by crying rape.
This is the kind of shit that the women studies majors put out. and it delegitimizes real rape victims. and I cannot tell you how fucking angry I am about that.
Wait a minute. You think a woman who wakes up in a bed that isn't hers, alone, with evidence of a sexual encounter that she doesn't remember shouldn't believe she was raped????
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Actually Fast Food does play a large part in our society. So.
Boy, you'd think I just brought up that delicious flame-broiled Whopper™ for no reason.
The term "rape culture" and the question "are we living in a rape culture?" are so nebulous as to be misleading and meaningless. It impedes actual discussion of cultural discussion rather than facilitate it, and the shrill rhetoric of it gets in the way of moderates actually learning about feminism.
All we have there is a one-sided summary of the case. Charging people for filing false reports is pretty rare, which leads me to conclude that the supposed victim was exceptionally unbelievable.
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"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
Which is so broad a definition as to be meaningless. We have cultural elements (such as NAMBLA) that promote, defend and excuse sex with kids. Do we live in a pedophilia culture? We have cultural elements that promote, defend and excuse the murder of "snitches." Do we live in a snitch-murdering culture?
In a nation of 300 million people, I'm sure you can find a group of people who promote, defend and excuse pretty much any terrible thing you can think of.
But, until such views become at least somewhat mainstream, it's inaccurate to claim that we live in a culture of whatever horrible activity you want to name.
We have cultural elements that could be argued are strong enough that most people are part of a rape culture without ever knowing it. It's a subtle pull towards these kind of acts, not a bunch of people shouting "Rape is great!" on a street corner.
Who gives a shit about what your personal friends thought about Polanski or Halliburton? If the rich and powerful are pulling the strings and the rich and powerful are tacitly saying rape is OK, then doesn't that just lend the rape culture argument even more credence?
Rape, murder, soliciting prostitution, theft, fraud, drug possession.
You get away with a lot when you have money and fame. Why are you focusing on the rape aspect?
Because they are willing to make a dishonest argument for a pet favorite cause.
The people who believe there is a rape culture have a good point. The traditional imbalance of power in a patriarchial society make prosecuting and being a victim of rape harder than it should be. Their fault is taking that one fact, and extrapolating it with anecdotal data, confusing causation and correlation, and a lot of "when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail" reasoning. There is plenty to support the first conclusion, but trying to paint a culture as therefore accepting, permissive, and supporting of rape has not had adequate evidence supplied to be taken seriously.
Really? It's people concerned about rape culture that are casting aspersions on rape victims? Is that really what you're saying?
I'm saying that by telling everyone who will listen that you commit rape when you have sex with a girl who's had 3 drinks, you delegitimize rape victims.
Wait so was the girl in the video raped or not?
The impression I and everyone else in the auditorium got was a resounding "No". A very interesting q and a followed that video.
I'm aware of the full definition of the word. I was just talking about when I most commonly hear it bandied about.
I just sense a complete lack of specific examples in cultural norms to back up claims of rape culture.
Did you read the OP?
-Roman Polanski rape apologists (including Whoopi Goldberg)
-Republican Senators who didn't think rape was a big enough reason to stop doing business with Halliburton. Senators! If that isn't evidence of acceptance--or at least insufficient outrage over--rape from the highest echelons of our society than I cannot help you.
-The fact that there were a dozen witnesses to the crime talked about in the OP but nobody responded.
-Atmosphere of shame and fear that prevents rape victims from reporting the crimes against them.
- I don't get the whole Roman Polanski thing... What I want to ask each of his "supporters" is "what if that was YOUR 13 year old daughter?"
- I have no insight on the Haliburton thing. I'll read up on it though.
- I don't know... These days, there's incentive to report thanks to nationwide sex offender registration laws. A person who rapes in, say Idaho, can't just pick up and leave it behind after they get out of jail. Registration prohibits where a person can live, and often times leaves a rapist out on the streets when they're in communities that have stricter guidelines on where a sex offender can and cannot live.
The term "rape culture" is pretty much just an appeal to emotion. It's defined so as to apply to our culture. If our culture were different, the term would be redefined so as to fit that culture. It's essentially meaningless.
If you agree that it has been established that "The traditional imbalance of power in a patriarchal society makes prosecuting and being a victim of rape harder than it should be", what else do you need?
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
- I don't get the whole Roman Polanski thing... What I want to ask each of his "supporters" is "what if that was YOUR 13 year old daughter?"
I do get the "the victim doesn't want to relive an experience that she has dealt with and moved beyond for the past forty years" argument (made by the victim).
I don't, however, think that's right... just saying I understand her position.
The problem is, if we let that happen, then we send the message that people can get away with rape.
Really? It's people concerned about rape culture that are casting aspersions on rape victims? Is that really what you're saying?
I'm saying that by telling everyone who will listen that you commit rape when you have sex with a girl who's had 3 drinks, you delegitimize rape victims.
Wait so was the girl in the video raped or not?
The impression I and everyone else in the auditorium got was a resounding "No". A very interesting q and a followed that video.
WHAAAAAAT? By telling everyone who will listen that rape is rape you're "delegitimizing rape victims?" What does this even mean?
Pro tip: Do not have sex with anyone who is incapable of enthusiastic consent. If this means you have to wait until tomorrow when you've both sobered up a bit, so sorry for the inconvenience.
Because they are willing to make a dishonest argument for a pet favorite cause.
Or, you know, we're focusing on one particular problem.
The overall culture of violence and criminal behavior is an issue, yes, but sexual has very particular aspects to it, and has a strong impact on our society.
When one in six women will be sexually assaulted in one way or another, and a substantial number of them feel they cannot dare to report the crime, and some states actively try to deter them from doing so, there is a particular issue in play.
Wait a minute. You think a woman who wakes up in a bed that isn't hers, alone, with evidence of a sexual encounter that she doesn't remember shouldn't believe she was raped????
It certainly shouldn't be her default judgement. I've woken up in beds with girls that I have never recalled meeting in my life and I don't think they raped me. And in this "case" she was meeting up with the guy in question, at his house, for a party.
dude, in a lot of those videos they stop the van and a woman gets out, because she was only wiling to flash some titties or something. They aint sending the message of "YOURE IN A RAPE VAN".
Since you're an expert, can you describe the "story" of a typical Bang Bus video?
The term "rape culture" is pretty much just an appeal to emotion. It's defined so as to apply to our culture. If our culture were different, the term would be redefined so as to fit that culture. It's essentially meaningless.
"Sexual Assault Culture" lacks the emotional impact, yes.
Thing is, impact is useful.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Wait a minute. You think a woman who wakes up in a bed that isn't hers, alone, with evidence of a sexual encounter that she doesn't remember shouldn't believe she was raped????
It certainly shouldn't be her default judgement. I've woken up in beds with girls that I have never recalled meeting in my life and I don't think they raped me. And in this "case" she was meeting up with the guy in question, at his house, for a party.
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Here we go
Not about rape. This is about how if you are famous and rich, you can get away with anything in this country. Happens with drugs, speeding, murder, just about any crime. This is about being rich.
Nope, not about rape. This is about how defense contractors get away with everything because of money. Polution, robbing the nation blind, killing people. You can't hone in here on one thing.
This often happens with all sorts of crimes, rape isn't the only one. This is a problem with crime in general.
Our society is fucked up for a number of reasons. And this tends to enable all sorts of criminal activity and people get away with it for the same reasons. To hone in on just rape, and then scream at the top of your lungs it's because rape is OK in our society, is utterly dishonest.
They're basically treated like homicides in their importance.
Rigorous Scholarship
I don't recall anybody being held captive in those videos. I seem to recall ones where the girls refuse to go farther and then get it, so they go get another one though. And these girls consenting for a cash payment of some sort.
-The roman polanski rape apologists are disgusting people. I also personally know nobody who defended him.
-The republican senators thing is about money and government contractors. Yes, fucked up, but saying its a straight defense of rape is misleading at best. Again, I don't know any senators. Everyone I know thought that entire episode was very fucked up and a terrible thing.
-The dozen witnesses thing - I think you need to realize that this happens all the time with things that are not rape, We actually studied the effect in a sociology class. It has little to do specifically with rape.
- I'm with you on the reporting stuff. Doesn't mean we have a "culture of rape" though.
Rape is obviously another counter-culture. Like goth and scene kids.
March 23, 2003?
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
"Rape culture" does not mean that rape is explicitly celebrated by everybody. It means that there are cultural elements that promote, defend, or excuse rapists and villify or cast doubt on the victims.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Right, he's clearly beloved for his habit of statutory rape. People liking him couldn't have anything to do with his film career.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
And I don't think that those cultural elements exist.
People with fame and money can get away with anything, including rape. and murder.
Man, okay, we get it, you love the justice system
But having a sex-offense unit doesn't negate the existence of a rape culture
And I guess that prosecutors and judges treat rape so seriously that you can be found guilty of filing a false police report just because the judge thought you were making it up
As for the cash payment, isn't part of the narrative that they never actually get the money? That sends the message that it's okay to make false promises in exchange for sex, which is also highly problematic.
Do you honestly believe that if Roman Polanski had plead guilty to killing a 13-year-old girl, there would have been a Hollywood petition to let him go free?
We're talking about some of the people who arguably have the strongest effect on popular culture in the world excusing an admitted rapist.
And you can stare this in the face and tell me that rape culture is a bogeyman?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
In a nation of 300 million people, I'm sure you can find a group of people who promote, defend and excuse pretty much any terrible thing you can think of.
But, until such views become at least somewhat mainstream, it's inaccurate to claim that we live in a culture of whatever horrible activity you want to name.
Rigorous Scholarship
There are plenty of examples to indicate that elements of that culture DO exist. Look at, for instance, the Duke lacrosse case. I believe PLENTY of people were commenting negatively about the accusers in that case long before a legal ruling was reached.
I take issue with the assumption that it is therefore THE culture we live in. As evidence by the fact that plenty of OTHER people were quick to sympathize with the accusers in that case and demonize the lacrosse players.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
Since I can't edit, need to do this.
Some cultural elements do exist. Like casting doubt on victims. But frankly, that's largely the fault of the people screaming about "rape culture" because they decided that women are not capable enough to handle themselves from drinking.
I watched an absolutely insane video about date rape in my freshman orientation. Girl goes to a party to meet up with a guy, they get drunk there, hooks up (she apparently maybe blacked out), and he wasnt in bed with her because he had to go take care of some shit - so she decides to ruin his life by crying rape.
This is the kind of shit that the women studies majors put out. and it delegitimizes real rape victims. and I cannot tell you how fucking angry I am about that.
Really? It's people concerned about rape culture that are casting aspersions on rape victims? Is that really what you're saying?
Wait so was the girl in the video raped or not?
I'm betting if he'd plead guilty to killing a girl while driving drunk he'd get the petition.
And no, that's not meant to be a dig at the late Ted Kennedy.
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dude, in a lot of those videos they stop the van and a woman gets out, because she was only wiling to flash some titties or something. They aint sending the message of "YOURE IN A RAPE VAN".
Wait a minute. You think a woman who wakes up in a bed that isn't hers, alone, with evidence of a sexual encounter that she doesn't remember shouldn't believe she was raped????
Boy, you'd think I just brought up that delicious flame-broiled Whopper™ for no reason.
The term "rape culture" and the question "are we living in a rape culture?" are so nebulous as to be misleading and meaningless. It impedes actual discussion of cultural discussion rather than facilitate it, and the shrill rhetoric of it gets in the way of moderates actually learning about feminism.
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It is becoming clear that there is nothing that could be done to convince you that we don't live in a rape culture. All we have there is a one-sided summary of the case. Charging people for filing false reports is pretty rare, which leads me to conclude that the supposed victim was exceptionally unbelievable.
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We have cultural elements that could be argued are strong enough that most people are part of a rape culture without ever knowing it. It's a subtle pull towards these kind of acts, not a bunch of people shouting "Rape is great!" on a street corner.
Because they are willing to make a dishonest argument for a pet favorite cause.
I agree with this pretty much completely.
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I'm saying that by telling everyone who will listen that you commit rape when you have sex with a girl who's had 3 drinks, you delegitimize rape victims.
The impression I and everyone else in the auditorium got was a resounding "No". A very interesting q and a followed that video.
- I don't get the whole Roman Polanski thing... What I want to ask each of his "supporters" is "what if that was YOUR 13 year old daughter?"
- I have no insight on the Haliburton thing. I'll read up on it though.
- A person is murdered in front of dozens (plural) of people and there are no witnesses. Happens all the time in big urban cities. This has nothing to do with rape.
- I don't know... These days, there's incentive to report thanks to nationwide sex offender registration laws. A person who rapes in, say Idaho, can't just pick up and leave it behind after they get out of jail. Registration prohibits where a person can live, and often times leaves a rapist out on the streets when they're in communities that have stricter guidelines on where a sex offender can and cannot live.
If you agree that it has been established that "The traditional imbalance of power in a patriarchal society makes prosecuting and being a victim of rape harder than it should be", what else do you need?
I do get the "the victim doesn't want to relive an experience that she has dealt with and moved beyond for the past forty years" argument (made by the victim).
I don't, however, think that's right... just saying I understand her position.
The problem is, if we let that happen, then we send the message that people can get away with rape.
WHAAAAAAT? By telling everyone who will listen that rape is rape you're "delegitimizing rape victims?" What does this even mean?
Pro tip: Do not have sex with anyone who is incapable of enthusiastic consent. If this means you have to wait until tomorrow when you've both sobered up a bit, so sorry for the inconvenience.
Or, you know, we're focusing on one particular problem.
The overall culture of violence and criminal behavior is an issue, yes, but sexual has very particular aspects to it, and has a strong impact on our society.
When one in six women will be sexually assaulted in one way or another, and a substantial number of them feel they cannot dare to report the crime, and some states actively try to deter them from doing so, there is a particular issue in play.
It certainly shouldn't be her default judgement. I've woken up in beds with girls that I have never recalled meeting in my life and I don't think they raped me. And in this "case" she was meeting up with the guy in question, at his house, for a party.
"Sexual Assault Culture" lacks the emotional impact, yes.
Thing is, impact is useful.
For sex?