1.6% of his health isn't a ton but it sure adds up when he's swinging super fast.
Also, keep in mind that his ult reduces a ton of incoming damage, so if he saves it for when he's low that's why you can't kill him. Think of him like Tryndamere - he's DPS but you better focus him last.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
that it does
That it does
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I've seen mallet/levi/warmogs/thirster/mallet/treads/atma's be used terrifyingly
i think i should explore tank shaco more thoroughly.
As a general rule of thumb, the only reason to spec a character as a tank is if they actually have a very useful function other than damage that he needs survivability to use. Shaco doesn't have that at all - the only utility he has is a little fear from his trap, which he doesn't even have to be in the line of fire to use. Otherwise you're just taking a gamble that the other team is stupid enough to focus fire you for no reason.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
i think i should explore tank shaco more thoroughly.
As a general rule of thumb, the only reason to spec a character as a tank is if they actually have a very useful function other than damage that he needs survivability to use. Shaco doesn't have that at all - the only utility he has is a little fear from his trap, which he doesn't even have to be in the line of fire to use. Otherwise you're just taking a gamble that the other team is stupid enough to focus fire you for no reason.
well, how's this then. when i hallucinate, my clone has all my items. so, lets say i have boots, bloodrazor, sunfire (1-2), GA, maybe even Aegis.
suddenly, there are 2 shacos with hella survivability running around, burning things, dealing damage based on your life, one dies and blows up, then comes back to blow up again. it isn't about focus firing you at all, it's about trying to get them to just leave you alone because it takes so long to kill you that you can just tear them apart.
if so, i am totally rushing madred's every time now.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Another thing that is quite useful to know about the Clone is that it got all the items you got, so basically if you got aura items your clone will have those as well. That means you will get double aura, Your aura range will be bigger and you don't even need to be close to a teammate to help him. That is extremely useful in a team fight because that way you can hide, and you will still be able to help your team with auras if your clone is close to them.
if so, i am totally rushing madred's every time now.
Yes and its a good item on Shaco. Sunfire cape shaco works too. Before Aegis was last tweaked, that item was pretty good because the aura stacked. Now that Stark's stack, it might be another interesting item on him as well
About Akali, I wrote somewhat of a champion breakdown here. She's more or less a better Evelyn than Evelyn because she can drop her stealth in the middle of battle and she can initiate on a target from range.
Your items may vary but there are two that I'd highly recommend: Boots of Mobility and a snowball item. She needs to hero kill as soon as she hits level 6 and she needs to get to places fast to make these kills happen. It is also very easy to last hit on kills so getting a bunch of stacks is pretty easy.
but still, those guys i was quoting a while ago who fed olaf then badmouthed him and were like "LOL U STACK HEALTH AND WIN AS OLAF NEW JAX WTFOP"
are dumb
Olaf is not nearly the problem Jax is. Yesterday, having seen the nerfs and hoping they were enough, I decided to 1v1 Jax from full HP as Shen. I had 6x his kills and less than 1/2 his deaths, and about 50% more creep kills. I obviously lost. That's some stupid shit right there. I might have won if his W wasn't nerfed into oblivion, but it's hard to say.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
yeah, olaf is very strong(although he tends to not fare as well as other carries late game)
but he is nowhere near the bullshit that jax still is
but still, those guys i was quoting a while ago who fed olaf then badmouthed him and were like "LOL U STACK HEALTH AND WIN AS OLAF NEW JAX WTFOP"
are dumb
Olaf is not nearly the problem Jax is. Yesterday, having seen the nerfs and hoping they were enough, I decided to 1v1 Jax from full HP as Shen. I had 6x his kills and less than 1/2 his deaths, and about 50% more creep kills. I obviously lost. That's some stupid shit right there. I might have won if his W wasn't nerfed into oblivion, but it's hard to say.
Why are you trying to 1v1 a carry who can stun you mulitiple times as a tank?
but still, those guys i was quoting a while ago who fed olaf then badmouthed him and were like "LOL U STACK HEALTH AND WIN AS OLAF NEW JAX WTFOP"
are dumb
Olaf is not nearly the problem Jax is. Yesterday, having seen the nerfs and hoping they were enough, I decided to 1v1 Jax from full HP as Shen. I had 6x his kills and less than 1/2 his deaths, and about 50% more creep kills. I obviously lost. That's some stupid shit right there. I might have won if his W wasn't nerfed into oblivion, but it's hard to say.
Why are you trying to 1v1 a carry who can stun you mulitiple times as a tank?
Because then how else would he be able to complain about Jax?
You are most useful as a healer. Your heals are very good, and you can use them from far behind the front line, exposing yourself to relatively little risk. I, playing as Shen, would have been thrilled to catch some cocky carry trying to come behind our front line to kill you. We would have had a grand time of it.
You are considerably less useful as a DPS. Using all your mana on Q, finding yourself OOM when you need to heal a teammate, is a horrible nightmare scenario for Soraka. But even as a DPS, stacking lots of AP, you can contribute something meaningful, and when you rarely DO heal, you could heal for quite a bit.
You are TOTALLY FUCKING USELESS, however, as a FUCKING TANK. Your three sunfire capes were the worst investment you could possibly make, except I guess an infinity edge or something. Your total lack of mana and AP items is one thing, and it's amazing that's actually the least of your sins. The fact that you chose sunfire capes, THREE OF THEM, over even other tanking items like MAYBE A FUCKING SPIRIT VISAGE, SORAKA, MAYBE THAT, IF YOU WANT A TANK ITEM, or maybe a guardian angel because YOU DIED A FUCKING LOT, AND ALSO YOU WOULD GET SOME MANA BACK AND COULD HEAL YOURSELF AND OH MY GOD SORAKA WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF
Love,
Ferox
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Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA
but still, those guys i was quoting a while ago who fed olaf then badmouthed him and were like "LOL U STACK HEALTH AND WIN AS OLAF NEW JAX WTFOP"
are dumb
Olaf is not nearly the problem Jax is. Yesterday, having seen the nerfs and hoping they were enough, I decided to 1v1 Jax from full HP as Shen. I had 6x his kills and less than 1/2 his deaths, and about 50% more creep kills. I obviously lost. That's some stupid shit right there. I might have won if his W wasn't nerfed into oblivion, but it's hard to say.
Why are you trying to 1v1 a carry who can stun you mulitiple times as a tank?
I assumed that the nerfs may have made Jax less of a problem for someone with a much higher level and much more gold than them, but apparently not. He wasn't carrying at that point in time, and I damn near was. If a game establishes an automatic instant-win for a matchup regardless of player skill or character level / gold, there is a fucking problem. Oh well, lesson learned again.
but on the other hand... soraka can reduce their MR, so that her sunfires do more damage... i'll bet you didn't consider that. imagine how much better she would have been with a little support, eh?
You are most useful as a healer. Your heals are very good, and you can use them from far behind the front line, exposing yourself to relatively little risk. I, playing as Shen, would have been thrilled to catch some cocky carry trying to come behind our front line to kill you. We would have had a grand time of it.
You are considerably less useful as a DPS. Using all your mana on Q, finding yourself OOM when you need to heal a teammate, is a horrible nightmare scenario for Soraka. But even as a DPS, stacking lots of AP, you can contribute something meaningful, and when you rarely DO heal, you could heal for quite a bit.
You are TOTALLY FUCKING USELESS, however, as a FUCKING TANK. Your three sunfire capes were the worst investment you could possibly make, except I guess an infinity edge or something. Your total lack of mana and AP items is one thing, and it's amazing that's actually the least of your sins. The fact that you chose sunfire capes, THREE OF THEM, over even other tanking items like MAYBE A FUCKING SPIRIT VISAGE, SORAKA, MAYBE THAT, IF YOU WANT A TANK ITEM, or maybe a guardian angel because YOU DIED A FUCKING LOT, AND ALSO YOU WOULD GET SOME MANA BACK AND COULD HEAL YOURSELF AND OH MY GOD SORAKA WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF
Love,
Ferox
Hahahaha
I got to the "three sunfire capes" and almost broke out laughing while on the phone with someone at work.
but still, those guys i was quoting a while ago who fed olaf then badmouthed him and were like "LOL U STACK HEALTH AND WIN AS OLAF NEW JAX WTFOP"
are dumb
Olaf is not nearly the problem Jax is. Yesterday, having seen the nerfs and hoping they were enough, I decided to 1v1 Jax from full HP as Shen. I had 6x his kills and less than 1/2 his deaths, and about 50% more creep kills. I obviously lost. That's some stupid shit right there. I might have won if his W wasn't nerfed into oblivion, but it's hard to say.
Why are you trying to 1v1 a carry who can stun you mulitiple times as a tank?
I assumed that the nerfs may have made Jax less of a problem for someone with a much higher level and much
more gold than them, but apparently not. He wasn't carrying at that point in time, and I damn near was. If a
game establishes an automatic instant-win for a matchup regardless of player skill or character level / gold, there is a fucking problem. Oh well, lesson learned again.
There is no automatic instant-win. The problem is, you tried to fight a champion who excels at 1v1 melée match-ups. And you were playing a tank who has no disable, no stun, no way to slow Jax down, who by default is at a disadvantage because Shen relies on his melée, with burst every 8 seconds.
You were not carrying. Most likely you were building for survivability, as you should with Shen. Shen excels at group fights, where he can lock the carries on to him, forcing them to fight and focus him, while his team can focus them down. He's not designed to roam around and engage in 1v1. You're failng your team by doing so.
Speaking of Shaco, I recently unlocked him and am pretty not sure how to build him. Each guide I've looked up is vastly different and a lot of people argue whether AP vs AD is better.
Speaking of Shaco, I recently unlocked him and am pretty not sure how to build him. Each guide I've looked up is vastly different and a lot of people argue whether AP vs AD is better.
i've never done ap shaco, but it is a gimick build that can do well, but... meh.
the only attack speed item i would condone getting on him is bloodrazor. i normally start with doran's shield or fort pot, depending on if i'm going to gank or not. almost always deceive first.
i almost always go boots of mobility then brutalizer, if i'm feeling saucy i'll grab sword of the occult before brutalizer. possibly leviathan. stats you want are, armor pen, damage, hp, armor/mr (team/game dependent) attack speed, crit.
if you wanted, for whatever reason, you could get bloodrazor, last whisper, malady, some HP and solo baron with jack and hallucinate.
AD is strictly superior to AP simply because his clone gets benefits from items but doesn't use abilities. However AP Shaco box traps are hilarious even if not time or item effective.
sheen works great because i think it increases the damage on his deceive. so you'll get the deceive bonus (130% at rank 5 deceive) the sheen bonus (80% on your next attack) and if you are behind them, as you should be when deceiving, your passive is 25% extra damage from behind.
and as we were saying, madred's razor because your hallucination will apply on-hit effects that the original you applies, so both you and your double will do 4% of the enemy's health in magic damage on hit, which is key for ripping apart tanks with lots of health, and just ripping people in general.
Posts
You need damage items
Need
yes but the people saying that are dumb
i just wondered why they said it
1.6% of your health for like 7 seconds is 16 for every 1000
man people are dumb
Combine it with Atma's, which is two percent
So that's roughly 4% of your max health
40 damage per thousand isn't shabby
but yeah it ain't too bad
but still, those guys i was quoting a while ago who fed olaf then badmouthed him and were like "LOL U STACK HEALTH AND WIN AS OLAF NEW JAX WTFOP"
are dumb
I meant close to a hundred damage from the 3k health you'll have at level 18 with warmog's and frozen mallet and atma's is nice I guess
Also, keep in mind that his ult reduces a ton of incoming damage, so if he saves it for when he's low that's why you can't kill him. Think of him like Tryndamere - he's DPS but you better focus him last.
That it does
As a general rule of thumb, the only reason to spec a character as a tank is if they actually have a very useful function other than damage that he needs survivability to use. Shaco doesn't have that at all - the only utility he has is a little fear from his trap, which he doesn't even have to be in the line of fire to use. Otherwise you're just taking a gamble that the other team is stupid enough to focus fire you for no reason.
well, how's this then. when i hallucinate, my clone has all my items. so, lets say i have boots, bloodrazor, sunfire (1-2), GA, maybe even Aegis.
suddenly, there are 2 shacos with hella survivability running around, burning things, dealing damage based on your life, one dies and blows up, then comes back to blow up again. it isn't about focus firing you at all, it's about trying to get them to just leave you alone because it takes so long to kill you that you can just tear them apart.
if so, i am totally rushing madred's every time now.
Yes and its a good item on Shaco. Sunfire cape shaco works too. Before Aegis was last tweaked, that item was pretty good because the aura stacked. Now that Stark's stack, it might be another interesting item on him as well
About Akali, I wrote somewhat of a champion breakdown here. She's more or less a better Evelyn than Evelyn because she can drop her stealth in the middle of battle and she can initiate on a target from range.
Your items may vary but there are two that I'd highly recommend: Boots of Mobility and a snowball item. She needs to hero kill as soon as she hits level 6 and she needs to get to places fast to make these kills happen. It is also very easy to last hit on kills so getting a bunch of stacks is pretty easy.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
yes. yes.
my TT build on him is fort pot/doran's shield depending on my team, start with deceive
get boots of mobility, brutalizer, sunfire, sunfire, win.
Olaf is not nearly the problem Jax is. Yesterday, having seen the nerfs and hoping they were enough, I decided to 1v1 Jax from full HP as Shen. I had 6x his kills and less than 1/2 his deaths, and about 50% more creep kills. I obviously lost. That's some stupid shit right there. I might have won if his W wasn't nerfed into oblivion, but it's hard to say.
but he is nowhere near the bullshit that jax still is
Why are you trying to 1v1 a carry who can stun you mulitiple times as a tank?
Because then how else would he be able to complain about Jax?
You are most useful as a healer. Your heals are very good, and you can use them from far behind the front line, exposing yourself to relatively little risk. I, playing as Shen, would have been thrilled to catch some cocky carry trying to come behind our front line to kill you. We would have had a grand time of it.
You are considerably less useful as a DPS. Using all your mana on Q, finding yourself OOM when you need to heal a teammate, is a horrible nightmare scenario for Soraka. But even as a DPS, stacking lots of AP, you can contribute something meaningful, and when you rarely DO heal, you could heal for quite a bit.
You are TOTALLY FUCKING USELESS, however, as a FUCKING TANK. Your three sunfire capes were the worst investment you could possibly make, except I guess an infinity edge or something. Your total lack of mana and AP items is one thing, and it's amazing that's actually the least of your sins. The fact that you chose sunfire capes, THREE OF THEM, over even other tanking items like MAYBE A FUCKING SPIRIT VISAGE, SORAKA, MAYBE THAT, IF YOU WANT A TANK ITEM, or maybe a guardian angel because YOU DIED A FUCKING LOT, AND ALSO YOU WOULD GET SOME MANA BACK AND COULD HEAL YOURSELF AND OH MY GOD SORAKA WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF
Love,
Ferox
Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA
I assumed that the nerfs may have made Jax less of a problem for someone with a much higher level and much more gold than them, but apparently not. He wasn't carrying at that point in time, and I damn near was. If a game establishes an automatic instant-win for a matchup regardless of player skill or character level / gold, there is a fucking problem. Oh well, lesson learned again.
it isn't good when the soraka stayed solo in the lane when everyone b'd
or, if we were pushing middle as a team, decided it was smart to separate to another lane and push further than we were
allowing her to be ganked quite easily
but on the other hand... soraka can reduce their MR, so that her sunfires do more damage... i'll bet you didn't consider that. imagine how much better she would have been with a little support, eh?
Hahahaha
I got to the "three sunfire capes" and almost broke out laughing while on the phone with someone at work.
There is no automatic instant-win. The problem is, you tried to fight a champion who excels at 1v1 melée match-ups. And you were playing a tank who has no disable, no stun, no way to slow Jax down, who by default is at a disadvantage because Shen relies on his melée, with burst every 8 seconds.
You were not carrying. Most likely you were building for survivability, as you should with Shen. Shen excels at group fights, where he can lock the carries on to him, forcing them to fight and focus him, while his team can focus them down. He's not designed to roam around and engage in 1v1. You're failng your team by doing so.
Or you could just have someone play Garen and swoop in on a berserking Olaf to execute him.
I love executing things.
Thoughts?
completely different playstyles
you'd have to see which suits you better
the only attack speed item i would condone getting on him is bloodrazor. i normally start with doran's shield or fort pot, depending on if i'm going to gank or not. almost always deceive first.
deceive
shiv
deceive
jack
deceive
hallucinate
hallucinate > deceive > shiv/jack
i almost always go boots of mobility then brutalizer, if i'm feeling saucy i'll grab sword of the occult before brutalizer. possibly leviathan. stats you want are, armor pen, damage, hp, armor/mr (team/game dependent) attack speed, crit.
if you wanted, for whatever reason, you could get bloodrazor, last whisper, malady, some HP and solo baron with jack and hallucinate.
and as we were saying, madred's razor because your hallucination will apply on-hit effects that the original you applies, so both you and your double will do 4% of the enemy's health in magic damage on hit, which is key for ripping apart tanks with lots of health, and just ripping people in general.
I love seeing things executed.
We should never be apart.
I'm saving for Ezreal now... too much IP thoughhhh
this has taught me to wait til a champion is free
cause he is not my bucket of tea
gonna start again