Has Liefeld ever come out with a statement about all the shit Mike has given him over the years?
He was going to but he couldn't find his pen under all the piles of money, and it was hard to get up and look for one with a beautiful woman in his lap.
aka he was sleeping
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
Wait what? Jacobkosh is a mod now? How do I miss these things!
Daxon, cigarette smoking (from perusing the literature) can decrease estrogen production in women. There are numerous studies on this easily accessible.
If you believe that you can only downregulate estrogen production, welp I have a friend who needs you to give him his bank account number because he needs someone he can trust to hold some money for him.
Uh.. I don't, in fact I haven't even said anything about what I believe affects oestrogen production. You're just making things up and saying I said them.
On the other hand I'm going to hazard a guess it's essentially genetic as to why women have more oestrogen in their body than men.
Someone experimented a lot with how the human body deals with freezing temperatures up to the point of death, but I can't remember who. I don't think it was Mengele. Does anybody know?
That was Unit 731 stuff.
Ah, that was them.
This day has seen an overabundance of 731 mention.
You should eat Cass, while I go do some yard work, and then LoL when I get back. Or whatever, it's all gravy.
How long will your yardwork take
this will change where I go to eat
Uh, I have no idea to be honest. Depends on if I can figure out how to use a power tool to do the job or do it by hand. Also it depends on how hot it is and how long I wanna stay out.
Basically, don't plan around me, but if we do meet up to LoL at the same time it would be sweet.
Once the Left 4 Dead comic is over, I am thinking about writing the stupidest fanfiction ever.
Louis and Francis, alone in their cell, while the guards watch?
No. Even dumber.
Be careful about reading this.
Last chance.
Here we go...
Bill's Spirit is brought to a tram by Gman. He's been observing Missster Overbeck and concluded he could be a great asset. Could be is the word, because he wasn't "cultivated" properly and, obviously, he's dead. A man with connections like Gman does not let potential simply pass, so he gives Bill a second chance for life. Not his own life, for that ship has sailed, but to be reborn in a new universe, where Gman can keep an eye on him and help his potential develop. Bill accepts.
In a hospital in an alternate 1971, a boy is born to proud parents.
what i was taking issue with in PIH's post was this old canard about the in-group variance being higher than the cross-group difference somehow trivializing the cross-group difference. it doesn't.
more to your point, though, what i was taking issue with was feral's contention that acknowledgment or even the consideration of a genetic cross-group difference (in the case of IQ test performance) was necessarily racist.
Group A and Group B have a statistical difference in metric X. What are the causes?
Is it social?
maybe
Is it environmental?
maybe
Is it cultural?
maybe
Is it genetic?
you racist!
Will, nobody here is claiming that groups don't tend to have genetic trends. The problem is that there are plenty of other, greater influences on what makes a person who they are, and automatically judging someone based on the color of their skin without taking into account any other factor is, in fact racist.
If you meet a black person who is not exceptionally bright, you would be racist to assume it's because of a genetic marker present in all black people. Maybe their family wasn't involved in their education! Maybe school just didn't catch their interest! Maybe it was a crappy school! WHO KNOWS.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
Daxon, you are doing what your av is doing.
why are you doing it?
Elldren on
fuck gendered marketing
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
You should eat Cass, while I go do some yard work, and then LoL when I get back. Or whatever, it's all gravy.
How long will your yardwork take
this will change where I go to eat
Uh, I have no idea to be honest. Depends on if I can figure out how to use a power tool to do the job or do it by hand. Also it depends on how hot it is and how long I wanna stay out.
Basically, don't plan around me, but if we do meet up to LoL at the same time it would be sweet.
Ok I'm going to treat myself to a proper sit-down lunch.
what i was taking issue with was feral's contention that acknowledgment or even the consideration of a genetic cross-group difference (in the case of IQ test performance) was necessarily racist.
I didn't make that contention.
Not that me pointing this out for the umpteenth time is going to stop you from attributing to me ideas that I don't actually espouse.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Daxon, cigarette smoking (from perusing the literature) can decrease estrogen production in women. There are numerous studies on this easily accessible.
If you believe that you can only downregulate estrogen production, welp I have a friend who needs you to give him his bank account number because he needs someone he can trust to hold some money for him.
Uh.. I don't, in fact I haven't even said anything about what I believe affects oestrogen production. You're just making things up and saying I said them.
On the other hand I'm going to hazard a guess it's essentially genetic as to why women have more oestrogen in their body than men.
yes it is genetic that women have more estrogen because the primary site of estrogen production is the uterus.
You asked for specific examples of ways that estrogen expression can be altered, I gave them, and while I don't disagree with the statement that women have more estrogen because of genetics is untrue.
To say that the reason women are taller is solely genetic is completely fucking bogus, and you can't just cite "estrogen" as the sole mediator and determinant of height, as there are plenty of ways for both sexes to increase or decrease estrogen production.
what i was taking issue with was feral's contention that acknowledgment or even the consideration of a genetic cross-group difference (in the case of IQ test performance) was necessarily racist.
I didn't make that contention.
Not that me pointing this out for the umpteenth time is going to stop you from attributing to me ideas that I don't actually espouse.
Ironic.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Once the Left 4 Dead comic is over, I am thinking about writing the stupidest fanfiction ever.
Louis and Francis, alone in their cell, while the guards watch?
No. Even dumber.
Be careful about reading this.
Last chance.
Here we go...
Bill's Spirit is brought to a tram by Gman. He's been observing Missster Overbeck and concluded he could be a great asset. Could be is the word, because he wasn't "cultivated" properly and, obviously, he's dead. A man with connections like Gman does not let potential simply pass, so he gives Bill a second chance for life. Not his own life, for that ship has sailed, but to be reborn in a new universe, where Gman can keep an eye on him and help his potential develop. Bill accepts.
In a hospital in an alternate 1971, a boy is born to proud parents.
They call the child Gordon.
I'm so sorry.
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LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
Anyone who thinks that in today and age that black people are as "smart" on average as white people is dumb.
Anyone who thinks this is because of genetics is a bloody moron.
you know this because you have done years of research, right?
because you are en expert on cognitive biology, right?
We have to do our own research and be experts in fields to have opinions on things now?
But, no, you are certainly right. There are certainly no glaringly obvious political, social and economic reasons as to why black people on average are less smart than white people in the US.
personally, if i had to guess, i would think that socio-economic factors would dwarf any kind of genetic component in terms of cross-race IQ test performance.
but i don't know, and i don't think i'd refer to anyone who came to a different conclusion a "moron"
Wait what? Jacobkosh is a mod now? How do I miss these things!
Man, this is going to be a thing for a while isn't it. Jacob, you should make a sticky introducing yourself then infract anyone who shows surprise in other threads.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
what i was taking issue with was feral's contention that acknowledgment or even the consideration of a genetic cross-group difference (in the case of IQ test performance) was necessarily racist.
I didn't make that contention.
Not that me pointing this out for the umpteenth time is going to stop you from attributing to me ideas that I don't actually espouse.
I'm pretty sure you actually stated explicitly that it was not necessarily racist
Wait what? Jacobkosh is a mod now? How do I miss these things!
Man, this is going to be a thing for a while isn't it. Jacob, you should make a sticky introducing yourself then infract anyone who shows surprise in other threads.
Once the Left 4 Dead comic is over, I am thinking about writing the stupidest fanfiction ever.
Louis and Francis, alone in their cell, while the guards watch?
No. Even dumber.
Be careful about reading this.
Last chance.
Here we go...
Bill's Spirit is brought to a tram by Gman. He's been observing Missster Overbeck and concluded he could be a great asset. Could be is the word, because he wasn't "cultivated" properly and, obviously, he's dead. A man with connections like Gman does not let potential simply pass, so he gives Bill a second chance for life. Not his own life, for that ship has sailed, but to be reborn in a new universe, where Gman can keep an eye on him and help his potential develop. Bill accepts.
In a hospital in an alternate 1971, a boy is born to proud parents.
They call the child Gordon.
I'm so sorry.
Is that from the stupid or the awesome?
It's probably the stupid
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
Daxon, cigarette smoking (from perusing the literature) can decrease estrogen production in women. There are numerous studies on this easily accessible.
If you believe that you can only downregulate estrogen production, welp I have a friend who needs you to give him his bank account number because he needs someone he can trust to hold some money for him.
Uh.. I don't, in fact I haven't even said anything about what I believe affects oestrogen production. You're just making things up and saying I said them.
On the other hand I'm going to hazard a guess it's essentially genetic as to why women have more oestrogen in their body than men.
yes it is genetic that women have more estrogen because the primary site of estrogen production is the uterus.
You asked for specific examples of ways that estrogen expression can be altered, I gave them, and while I don't disagree with the statement that women have more estrogen because of genetics is untrue.
To say that the reason women are taller is solely genetic is completely fucking bogus, and you can't just cite "estrogen" as the sole mediator and determinant of height, as there are plenty of ways for both sexes to increase or decrease estrogen production.
heeheehee
Arch, but that is one hell of a freudian slip
Elldren on
fuck gendered marketing
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
I'd make such a horrible mod.
amateurhour on
are YOU on the beer list?
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Wait what? Jacobkosh is a mod now? How do I miss these things!
Man, this is going to be a thing for a while isn't it. Jacob, you should make a sticky introducing yourself then infract anyone who shows surprise in other threads.
This is actually how I found out ceres got made a mod in H/A, as there was a gigantic sticky.
It just confused me because jacobkosh had the mod tag, but then also had a sig/avatar that kind of reminded me of Than so I wasn't sure if jacob was really a new mod, or if Than just kidnapped jacob's avatar, sig, name and is hiding him under his basement in a cage.
Daxon, cigarette smoking (from perusing the literature) can decrease estrogen production in women. There are numerous studies on this easily accessible.
If you believe that you can only downregulate estrogen production, welp I have a friend who needs you to give him his bank account number because he needs someone he can trust to hold some money for him.
Uh.. I don't, in fact I haven't even said anything about what I believe affects oestrogen production. You're just making things up and saying I said them.
On the other hand I'm going to hazard a guess it's essentially genetic as to why women have more oestrogen in their body than men.
yes it is genetic that women have more estrogen because the primary site of estrogen production is the uterus.
You asked for specific examples of ways that estrogen expression can be altered, I gave them, and while I don't disagree with the statement that women have more estrogen because of genetics is untrue.
To say that the reason women are taller is solely genetic is completely fucking bogus, and you can't just cite "estrogen" as the sole mediator and determinant of height, as there are plenty of ways for both sexes to increase or decrease estrogen production.
What I'm saying is this:
A) Greatest factor affecting your oestrogen levels is sex. Being a woman = high, man = lower.
Oestrogen is one of the (if not the) strongest factor affecting the fusion of the long bones (when they're fused, they no longer grow so early fusion = shorter, later fusion = longer).
Ergo: women are generally shorter than men.
How is this disagreeable to anyone?
Sure there are other factors but being a woman is generally going to make you shorter than a man, given same nutritional status etc.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Wait what? Jacobkosh is a mod now? How do I miss these things!
Man, this is going to be a thing for a while isn't it. Jacob, you should make a sticky introducing yourself then infract anyone who shows surprise in other threads.
Honestly, I kind of like reading everyone's expressions of surprise and/or dismay.
what i was taking issue with in PIH's post was this old canard about the in-group variance being higher than the cross-group difference somehow trivializing the cross-group difference. it doesn't.
I agree with you here, but it can be useful for a little perspective, especially if people are saying stuff like "broads shouldn't work construction."
more to your point, though, what i was taking issue with was feral's contention that acknowledgment or even the consideration of a genetic cross-group difference (in the case of IQ test performance) was necessarily racist.
I don't think that's the point he was making. I think he was making that point specifically when talking about black/white differences of IQ. Because in that instance, it is racist, because there's no reason to believe, conceptually or empirically, that such differences are genetic.
IQ absolutely is hereditary to some extent. I think the average number given for that is somewhere around 60%?
But there's no reason to believe, conceptually, that there would be a population-wide genetic basis for lower intelligence among blacks than whites, given that those categories are not genetically sound -- i.e. there's tremendous genetic variability within both of those groupings, because both of those groupings are based on some really vague ideas that have nothing to do with shared environments (be they social, ecological, climatological, or otherwise), genetics, or anything else. They're mostly defined by national ancestry, really; they're not really even based on phenotypic markers, as plenty of people are considered "Black" who are of majority European heritage.
The point is, there's no conceptual framework by which it would even be plausible that such genetic differences between blacks and whites in IQ would arise, and there is no empirical evidence to believe otherwise, so raising the question is sort of racist. It's one of those "teach the controversy" moments where there really isn't any controversy.
Bill's Spirit is brought to a tram by Gman. He's been observing Missster Overbeck and concluded he could be a great asset. Could be is the word, because he wasn't "cultivated" properly and, obviously, he's dead. A man with connections like Gman does not let potential simply pass, so he gives Bill a second chance for life. Not his own life, for that ship has sailed, but to be reborn in a new universe, where Gman can keep an eye on him and help his potential develop. Bill accepts.
In a hospital in an alternate 1971, a boy is born to proud parents.
Will, what makes me even more mad than this whole debate is the fact that it is even happening in the first place. Why do you give a shit if it's genetic? What does this prove about black people if it is? What would that mean we should do with them? Should we start treating them differently?
I'm arguing from my perspective because I know that there are plenty of factors that make up a person, that race as viewed by society is largely a rigid construct that's in reality very fluid, and I know from history and from personal experience how people are treated when a perceived innate racial flaw is assumed to be the predominant makeup of their being, and I believe that all people deserve to be treated with respect. Why do you care?
Posts
How long will your yardwork take
this will change where I go to eat
aka he was sleeping
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Uh.. I don't, in fact I haven't even said anything about what I believe affects oestrogen production. You're just making things up and saying I said them.
On the other hand I'm going to hazard a guess it's essentially genetic as to why women have more oestrogen in their body than men.
Ah, that was them.
This day has seen an overabundance of 731 mention.
I told you I'd shoot , but you didn't believe me? Why didn't you believe me?!
Uh, I have no idea to be honest. Depends on if I can figure out how to use a power tool to do the job or do it by hand. Also it depends on how hot it is and how long I wanna stay out.
Basically, don't plan around me, but if we do meet up to LoL at the same time it would be sweet.
Baseball cap perrenially askew, fading hairline hidden from view, an artist without a clue.
pleasepaypreacher.net
high-fiber diets showed a decrease in estrogen!
So there is a specific extragenic compound that affects estrogen production.
No. Even dumber.
In a hospital in an alternate 1971, a boy is born to proud parents.
I'm so sorry.
word.
You missed the election?
Will, nobody here is claiming that groups don't tend to have genetic trends. The problem is that there are plenty of other, greater influences on what makes a person who they are, and automatically judging someone based on the color of their skin without taking into account any other factor is, in fact racist.
If you meet a black person who is not exceptionally bright, you would be racist to assume it's because of a genetic marker present in all black people. Maybe their family wasn't involved in their education! Maybe school just didn't catch their interest! Maybe it was a crappy school! WHO KNOWS.
why are you doing it?
There was an election?
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Ok I'm going to treat myself to a proper sit-down lunch.
See you later alligator.
I didn't make that contention.
Not that me pointing this out for the umpteenth time is going to stop you from attributing to me ideas that I don't actually espouse.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
yes it is genetic that women have more estrogen because the primary site of estrogen production is the uterus.
You asked for specific examples of ways that estrogen expression can be altered, I gave them, and while I don't disagree with the statement that women have more estrogen because of genetics is untrue.
To say that the reason women are taller is solely genetic is completely fucking bogus, and you can't just cite "estrogen" as the sole mediator and determinant of height, as there are plenty of ways for both sexes to increase or decrease estrogen production.
Ironic.
pleasepaypreacher.net
personally, if i had to guess, i would think that socio-economic factors would dwarf any kind of genetic component in terms of cross-race IQ test performance.
but i don't know, and i don't think i'd refer to anyone who came to a different conclusion a "moron"
I'm pretty sure you actually stated explicitly that it was not necessarily racist
please fucking do this
I was just thinking that as I was looking at some recent infractions.
Is that from the stupid or the awesome?
didn't he say that women on average produce proportionally higher levels of estrogen than men?
what do second-order causes for induced estrogen throttling have to do with what he said?
heeheehee
Arch, but that is one hell of a freudian slip
This is actually how I found out ceres got made a mod in H/A, as there was a gigantic sticky.
It just confused me because jacobkosh had the mod tag, but then also had a sig/avatar that kind of reminded me of Than so I wasn't sure if jacob was really a new mod, or if Than just kidnapped jacob's avatar, sig, name and is hiding him under his basement in a cage.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
What I'm saying is this:
A) Greatest factor affecting your oestrogen levels is sex. Being a woman = high, man = lower.
Oestrogen is one of the (if not the) strongest factor affecting the fusion of the long bones (when they're fused, they no longer grow so early fusion = shorter, later fusion = longer).
Ergo: women are generally shorter than men.
How is this disagreeable to anyone?
Sure there are other factors but being a woman is generally going to make you shorter than a man, given same nutritional status etc.
Honestly, I kind of like reading everyone's expressions of surprise and/or dismay.
I agree with you here, but it can be useful for a little perspective, especially if people are saying stuff like "broads shouldn't work construction."
I don't think that's the point he was making. I think he was making that point specifically when talking about black/white differences of IQ. Because in that instance, it is racist, because there's no reason to believe, conceptually or empirically, that such differences are genetic.
IQ absolutely is hereditary to some extent. I think the average number given for that is somewhere around 60%?
But there's no reason to believe, conceptually, that there would be a population-wide genetic basis for lower intelligence among blacks than whites, given that those categories are not genetically sound -- i.e. there's tremendous genetic variability within both of those groupings, because both of those groupings are based on some really vague ideas that have nothing to do with shared environments (be they social, ecological, climatological, or otherwise), genetics, or anything else. They're mostly defined by national ancestry, really; they're not really even based on phenotypic markers, as plenty of people are considered "Black" who are of majority European heritage.
The point is, there's no conceptual framework by which it would even be plausible that such genetic differences between blacks and whites in IQ would arise, and there is no empirical evidence to believe otherwise, so raising the question is sort of racist. It's one of those "teach the controversy" moments where there really isn't any controversy.
One of the big 18V Hitachis would be nice.
Stupid awesome
I wouldn't, not that anyone would believe me.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I'm arguing from my perspective because I know that there are plenty of factors that make up a person, that race as viewed by society is largely a rigid construct that's in reality very fluid, and I know from history and from personal experience how people are treated when a perceived innate racial flaw is assumed to be the predominant makeup of their being, and I believe that all people deserve to be treated with respect. Why do you care?