i don't really see that as the same thing. holding hands or basic affectionate gestures are appropriate to polite society, and i would include gay dudes holding hands in public as being under that umbrella.
talking explicitly about sexual acts or encounters in mixed company is inappropriate and disrespectful whether you're straight or gay or a swinger or whatever else.
Will, the problem is in the phrase "social niceties," which is ambiguous and doesn't have a universal definition. I mean, what is a social nicety to you is not necessarily a social nicety to someone else, and you might be personally accepting of some public behaviors that others might not - I guarantee you there are some people that find even holding hands in public to be beyond the pale.
I mean, you can only really judge by your own compass, but those compasses are not necessarily synchronized among all of society.
edit: In other words, you can't please everyone. Shouldn't really try to. Though I would agree there are some universal limits. You shouldn't bend your girlfriend over your Applebee's booth and start fucking her in front of everyone else, for instance. I think we can all agree on that. (Unless she's really hot.)
it's true that people are going to have different standards and probably always have. i get the sense that the very concept of "politeness" is kind of under fire or being dismissed by groups who i kind of see as radical individualists, sometimes on this board. it strikes me that some of the these people are putting forward the position that free expression should be unfettered by social convention in as broad an arena as possible.
probably one of the reasons that i kind of cling to and advocate for somewhat stricter and more universal social standards is that i see that kind of nihilism as socially destructive and ultimately destroys the ability to successfully communicate. social standards exist so that we can successfully live among other people.
I actually really really enjoy Radiohead's earlier albums and even some of their later efforts. I love Kid A and The Bends/OK Computer are two of my favorite albums of all time.
Once you get to Amnesiac, Hail to the Thief, and In Rainbows, however, I think, much like Stephen King or David Lynch, Radiohead suffers from lack of ANY kind of producer/studio intervention. That's not to say I want Thom Yorke autotuned.
But I think when given a little bit of direction, Radiohead does much more.
This is not me stating this as objective, obviously. There's nothing that I find technically wrong with any Radiohead album. It's just a taste thing.
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
I'm confused. Was I supposed to like that, or not like that.
Because I in no way liked that.
Is this like ironically shitty beer, where if you just keep drinking it down eventually you convince yourself it's good?
EDIT: That, or maybe more like those fancy red wines where people are all "wow, this tastes so amazingly shitty but in complex ways, like sucking on leather soaked in jasmine."
I will abide by whatever reasonable social expectations there are in the people around me, but I would never deliberately seek out a friendship with a person who couldn't handle frank discussions of sex and pooping. And if they wanted to talk about pooping during sex, I would really want to know what's the deal with that because I think it's just gross.
Poo is gross. It is way TMI. Gross bodily functions aren't a thing that needs to be discussed. Yeah, everybody poops, I don't need a reminder.
I always preferred "You are a Naughty Child and that is Concentrated Evil coming out the back of you."
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
no ending ending shit that bioware are going for. Even if it's the middle game in a series you can grant closure to each sequence instead of just "yeah, we dunno what happened"
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BobCescaIs a girlBirmingham, UKRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Seriously, me and Will just need to meet up for drinks to talk about politeness (and other social stuff that japan doesn't understand).
on bus: "I got soooooo drunk brah, was insane"
with mom: "I had a nice quiet night with friends"
I tried a completely different tact. I'd tell my parents the truth about all my boozing. Then they'd think to themselves "Our sweet little boy would never do anything like that, he's clearly just making it all up. He is very sarcastic..." Actually, telling my parents I got wasted makes them far less concerned about any potential boozing than if I said "Yeah, I had a beer or two with the guys last night" because they might actually believe the latter.
talking explicitly about sexual acts or encounters in mixed company is inappropriate and disrespectful whether you're straight or gay or a swinger or whatever else.
I used to live with a swinger, and he was really fucking proud of his open relationship. Not only that, but his girlfriend is an editor at the Boston Phoenix, and that somehow led to their polyamorous relationship becoming a feature story in that paper.
That gives me the impression that part of the appeal of swinging comes from being able to talk about your unique relationship. Rather than discouraging such openness, the possibility of breaking social niceties encourages frank discussion, as swinging itself can be about rejecting normative behavior.
on bus: "I got soooooo drunk brah, was insane"
with mom: "I had a nice quiet night with friends"
I tried a completely different tact. I'd tell my parents the truth about all my boozing. Then they'd think to themselves "Our sweet little boy would never do anything like that, he's clearly just making it all up. He is very sarcastic..." Actually, telling my parents I got wasted makes them far less concerned about any potential boozing than if I said "Yeah, I had a beer or two with the guys last night" because they might actually believe the latter.
I do this too!
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
the only time I ever discussed sex with my mom was in high school when every year or so she'd stop the car, sigh, look over at me and tell me that I could tell her if I was gay, she wouldn't mind
ITT: I discover jacob is my secret brother.
Donkey Kong on
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
like, the fundamental disconnect here isn't whether people are comfortable talking about sex- it's whether people have the social awareness (rooted in basic empathy, by the way, liberals) to respect the feelings of others
and if you can't observe that a friend is uncomfortable, or worse observe it and pounce on it to further your 'point'... you're the regressive, not him
I just put this under the "dont be a dick" umbrella
If someone doesn't want to talk about something, or be around something, or whatever, the polite thing is to not do that thing
for some, furthering their cause is far more important than observing basic social niceties.
sort of? I mean you know I agree with you about most of this but if someone is really freaked out about, say, two dudes on the other side of the restaurant holding hands then they are kind of a contemptible coward
i don't really see that as the same thing. holding hands or basic affectionate gestures are appropriate to polite society, and i would include gay dudes holding hands in public as being under that umbrella.
I agree but I think it illustrates that what makes an observer uncomfortable is not always the best barometer. It is a useful guideline, certainly, but it can't be the end-all be-all.
i agree that the discomfort of the observer isn't the best universal barometer. there are some uncomfortable situations that are perfectly acceptable within the bounds of etiquette. it is a useful guideline, though, and should always be a consideration.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
the only time I ever discussed sex with my mom was in high school when every year or so she'd stop the car, sigh, look over at me and tell me that I could tell her if I was gay, she wouldn't mind
no ending ending shit that bioware are going for. Even if it's the middle game in a series you can grant closure to each sequence instead of just "yeah, we dunno what happened"
i liked the ending. i felt that the last third of the game really picked up and concluded well.
i did feel like the first two acts were kind of meandering though.
on bus: "I got soooooo drunk brah, was insane"
with mom: "I had a nice quiet night with friends"
I tried a completely different tact. I'd tell my parents the truth about all my boozing. Then they'd think to themselves "Our sweet little boy would never do anything like that, he's clearly just making it all up. He is very sarcastic..." Actually, telling my parents I got wasted makes them far less concerned about any potential boozing than if I said "Yeah, I had a beer or two with the guys last night" because they might actually believe the latter.
When I was 16, my dad sat me down and explained to me that parents don't care about their kids drinking, they cared about their kids doing stupid things when they drink.
"I have a whole bottle of vodka in the cabinet." He said, "You and I can drink the whole thing at this table right now if you want. The only thing that'll happen is you'll throw up and I'll have to carry you to bed."
My parents were pretty lax in that regard, and honestly I think I was the better for it. My parents weren't cool with people drinking at my house (they didnt want the liability), but otherwise they never had a problem picking me up from someone's house after a party. As a result I never got as drunk as many of my friends who were sneaking their drinking around their parents. The taboo was gone and I actually didn't drink very much at all in highschool as a result. When I started college and I'd come home they'd offer me beer and wine.
They weren't like "kids will be kids, get wasted!", but their openness on the subject and their hard line that as long as I was being responsible drinking was cool really helped me to not go on the fucking benders freshman year of college that a lot of my more sheltered friends did.
the only time I ever discussed sex with my mom was in high school when every year or so she'd stop the car, sigh, look over at me and tell me that I could tell her if I was gay, she wouldn't mind
it is weird to me sometimes that other people have parents
weird how?
iunno. my parents died when i was in high school. i don't ever really talk to my biological parents. i've been an 'orphan' for so long that it still catches me off guard when people my age start talking about their relationship with their parents
like, i guess my unthinking instinct is that by their mid 20s, peoples' parents should be gone... though that is obviously incorrect.
the only time I ever discussed sex with my mom was in high school when every year or so she'd stop the car, sigh, look over at me and tell me that I could tell her if I was gay, she wouldn't mind
ITT: I discover jacob is my secret brother.
Hi5, I'm glad I was not alone on this
well, you two?
man, I wish I had been gay
it would have been easier than explaining over and over "no mom, I'm just a nerd"
no ending ending shit that bioware are going for. Even if it's the middle game in a series you can grant closure to each sequence instead of just "yeah, we dunno what happened"
i liked the ending. i felt that the last third of the game really picked up and concluded well.
i did feel like the first two acts were kind of meandering though.
I thought the second act was the best
The Arishok was a much more satisfying adversary than Nutbag Templar and Nutbag Mage
by the end I just wanted to kill the mages and the templars and take my rightful place on the throne
fuck all y'all
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
the only time I ever discussed sex with my mom was in high school when every year or so she'd stop the car, sigh, look over at me and tell me that I could tell her if I was gay, she wouldn't mind
haha
one of my brothers is kind of shy and was rather unsuccessful with women
my other brother and i had like a five-year campaign to convince my mom that he was gay
When I was 16, my dad sat me down and explained to me that parents don't care about their kids drinking, they cared about their kids doing stupid things when they drink.
"I have a whole bottle of vodka in the cabinet." He said, "You and I can drink the whole thing at this table right now if you want. The only thing that'll happen is you'll throw up and I'll have to carry you to bed."
My parents were pretty lax in that regard, and honestly I think I was the better for it. My parents weren't cool with people drinking at my house (they didnt want the liability), but otherwise they never had a problem picking me up from someone's house after a party. As a result I never got as drunk as many of my friends who were sneaking their drinking around their parents. The taboo was gone and I actually didn't drink very much at all in highschool as a result. When I started college and I'd come home they'd offer me beer and wine.
They weren't like "kids will be kids, get wasted!", but their openness on the subject and their hard line that as long as I was being responsible drinking was cool really helped me to not go on the fucking benders freshman year of college that a lot of my more sheltered friends did.
My parents were the same way with drugs. Since they were both druggies in High School and had me super young (Dad was 20, Mom was 17 when I was born) they flat out told me, "If you want drugs, tell us. We will go buy it for you because we know what to watch out for." They also told me all their horror stories about the stuff they did and overdosing.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
on bus: "I got soooooo drunk brah, was insane"
with mom: "I had a nice quiet night with friends"
I tried a completely different tact. I'd tell my parents the truth about all my boozing. Then they'd think to themselves "Our sweet little boy would never do anything like that, he's clearly just making it all up. He is very sarcastic..." Actually, telling my parents I got wasted makes them far less concerned about any potential boozing than if I said "Yeah, I had a beer or two with the guys last night" because they might actually believe the latter.
I have the completely opposite experience with my parents. I have nice quiet nights at home, I tell my parents as much, and they assume I'm lying and getting drunk in bars.
Posts
it's true that people are going to have different standards and probably always have. i get the sense that the very concept of "politeness" is kind of under fire or being dismissed by groups who i kind of see as radical individualists, sometimes on this board. it strikes me that some of the these people are putting forward the position that free expression should be unfettered by social convention in as broad an arena as possible.
probably one of the reasons that i kind of cling to and advocate for somewhat stricter and more universal social standards is that i see that kind of nihilism as socially destructive and ultimately destroys the ability to successfully communicate. social standards exist so that we can successfully live among other people.
I actually really really enjoy Radiohead's earlier albums and even some of their later efforts. I love Kid A and The Bends/OK Computer are two of my favorite albums of all time.
Once you get to Amnesiac, Hail to the Thief, and In Rainbows, however, I think, much like Stephen King or David Lynch, Radiohead suffers from lack of ANY kind of producer/studio intervention. That's not to say I want Thom Yorke autotuned.
But I think when given a little bit of direction, Radiohead does much more.
This is not me stating this as objective, obviously. There's nothing that I find technically wrong with any Radiohead album. It's just a taste thing.
same reason people hate Bieber
I'm confused. Was I supposed to like that, or not like that.
Because I in no way liked that.
Is this like ironically shitty beer, where if you just keep drinking it down eventually you convince yourself it's good?
EDIT: That, or maybe more like those fancy red wines where people are all "wow, this tastes so amazingly shitty but in complex ways, like sucking on leather soaked in jasmine."
I always preferred "You are a Naughty Child and that is Concentrated Evil coming out the back of you."
Terrible.
I am hating this kind of
It would be awesome.
I tried a completely different tact. I'd tell my parents the truth about all my boozing. Then they'd think to themselves "Our sweet little boy would never do anything like that, he's clearly just making it all up. He is very sarcastic..." Actually, telling my parents I got wasted makes them far less concerned about any potential boozing than if I said "Yeah, I had a beer or two with the guys last night" because they might actually believe the latter.
That gives me the impression that part of the appeal of swinging comes from being able to talk about your unique relationship. Rather than discouraging such openness, the possibility of breaking social niceties encourages frank discussion, as swinging itself can be about rejecting normative behavior.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
everything in its right place
pact like sardines in a crushed tin box
2+2 = 5
15 steps
i cant think of the others right now
but i like them
I do this too!
ITT: I discover jacob is my secret brother.
That's the story, and it ended in the game. You were there. They don't tell you what happened after that, because that's not part of the story of DA2.
Ima Robot.
weird how?
*cough* Expansion Pack *cough*
d'aww thanks
you are my favorite accountant
i agree that the discomfort of the observer isn't the best universal barometer. there are some uncomfortable situations that are perfectly acceptable within the bounds of etiquette. it is a useful guideline, though, and should always be a consideration.
Hi5, I'm glad I was not alone on this
I wish I was a cool as Thom Yorke
i liked the ending. i felt that the last third of the game really picked up and concluded well.
i did feel like the first two acts were kind of meandering though.
When I was 16, my dad sat me down and explained to me that parents don't care about their kids drinking, they cared about their kids doing stupid things when they drink.
"I have a whole bottle of vodka in the cabinet." He said, "You and I can drink the whole thing at this table right now if you want. The only thing that'll happen is you'll throw up and I'll have to carry you to bed."
My parents were pretty lax in that regard, and honestly I think I was the better for it. My parents weren't cool with people drinking at my house (they didnt want the liability), but otherwise they never had a problem picking me up from someone's house after a party. As a result I never got as drunk as many of my friends who were sneaking their drinking around their parents. The taboo was gone and I actually didn't drink very much at all in highschool as a result. When I started college and I'd come home they'd offer me beer and wine.
They weren't like "kids will be kids, get wasted!", but their openness on the subject and their hard line that as long as I was being responsible drinking was cool really helped me to not go on the fucking benders freshman year of college that a lot of my more sheltered friends did.
well, you two?
iunno. my parents died when i was in high school. i don't ever really talk to my biological parents. i've been an 'orphan' for so long that it still catches me off guard when people my age start talking about their relationship with their parents
like, i guess my unthinking instinct is that by their mid 20s, peoples' parents should be gone... though that is obviously incorrect.
we would be so refined
we would delicately bump fists
haha yes
i remember that
i thought "she will surely get this joke"
(i ordered two and kept one for myself. it is now "my" mug.)
man, I wish I had been gay
it would have been easier than explaining over and over "no mom, I'm just a nerd"
by the end I just wanted to kill the mages and the templars and take my rightful place on the throne
fuck all y'all
haha
one of my brothers is kind of shy and was rather unsuccessful with women
my other brother and i had like a five-year campaign to convince my mom that he was gay
My parents were the same way with drugs. Since they were both druggies in High School and had me super young (Dad was 20, Mom was 17 when I was born) they flat out told me, "If you want drugs, tell us. We will go buy it for you because we know what to watch out for." They also told me all their horror stories about the stuff they did and overdosing.
Consequently, I never did drugs.
I have the completely opposite experience with my parents. I have nice quiet nights at home, I tell my parents as much, and they assume I'm lying and getting drunk in bars.
The best fistbump ever.
We can talk about etiquette and beers and cocktails and tea.