Cooldowns on potions are such a pain in the butt. You need potions and healing magic to survive the tougher fights. The problem being there are three mages that can heal in the game. Hawke... only if you're a mage. Anders, who is a pain in the ass. Then there is Bethany, who is wonderful, but you only get her for parts of the game.
Then you have Aveline or Hawke as the only options for sword and board warrior. Not to mention if you don't buy DLC Hawke is the only character in the entire game who can use a bow.
Why make these talent trees and character builds if you can go an entire game without them being a factor? It feels like they had no interest in people being able to explore the combat engine.
Cooldowns on potions are such a pain in the butt. You need potions and healing magic to survive the tougher fights. The problem being there are three mages that can heal in the game. Hawke... only if you're a mage. Anders, who is a pain in the ass. Then there is Bethany, who is wonderful, but you only get her for parts of the game.
Then you have Aveline or Hawke as the only options for sword and board warrior. Not to mention if you don't buy DLC Hawke is the only character in the entire game who can use a bow.
Why make these talent trees and character builds if you can go an entire game without them being a factor? It feels like they had no interest in people being able to explore the combat engine.
Ahem..Varric uses a bow. Also Hawke can use a bow.
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ElixirSaving Your AssAlchemists and Belts EverywhereRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
Yeah, I've read that folks have tanked with Isabela/Fenris/Carver, but it must be a bit of a byzantine stat and skill set up. I've never been able to get them to be that effective myself, just using the skill descriptions and gamer intuition.
Also, I'm too lazy to read a guide on how to do it. I'd just rather put points in Avaline's sword and board tree and "I'm a beast" tanking tree.
Cooldowns on potions are such a pain in the butt. You need potions and healing magic to survive the tougher fights. The problem being there are three mages that can heal in the game. Hawke... only if you're a mage. Anders, who is a pain in the ass. Then there is Bethany, who is wonderful, but you only get her for parts of the game.
Then you have Aveline or Hawke as the only options for sword and board warrior. Not to mention if you don't buy DLC Hawke is the only character in the entire game who can use a bow.
Why make these talent trees and character builds if you can go an entire game without them being a factor? It feels like they had no interest in people being able to explore the combat engine.
Ahem..Varric uses a bow. Also Hawke can use a bow.
No, he doesn't. Varric uses Bianca, which cannot be removed or replaced with the dozens of bows you find through out the course of the game.
Yeah, I've read that folks have tanked with Isabela/Fenris/Carver, but it must be a bit of a byzantine stat and skill set up. I've never been able to get them to be that effective myself, just using the skill descriptions and gamer intuition.
Also, I'm too lazy to read a guide on how to do it. I'd just rather put points in Avaline's sword and board tree and "I'm a beast" tanking tree.
Even on Nightmare, Fenris can wipe all the mook and lieutenant level mobs out in one skill combo at mid level, leaving just the single boss mob standing that can be debuffed, disabled, and focused down. Or nothing standing if there isn't a boss mob. At a certain point I didn't need more of a tank than him because of his insane AoE damage.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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UnderwhelmingmyMomIsTheJam July 13, 2013Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
After briefly skimming the last two pages, I've determined beyond any doubt that this entire thread contains NO sad faces.
Gentlemen, and ladies, ...I was promised sad faces.
Okay, so after I did some quests for Anders in act 3 on my first playthrough, his outfit changed or something?
Anyway I'm on my second one now (sword'n'board Templar pssh) and I'm wondering... is this a thing that can happen with all the characters? How do I pull this off? I'm about to finish Act 1 now so I assume I haven't already missed my opportunities yet.
Okay, so after I did some quests for Anders in act 3 on my first playthrough, his outfit changed or something?
Anyway I'm on my second one now (sword'n'board Templar pssh) and I'm wondering... is this a thing that can happen with all the characters? How do I pull this off? I'm about to finish Act 1 now so I assume I haven't already missed my opportunities yet.
Aveline, Fenris, Merrill, Anders, and Isabela have costumes that change, some minor, some extreme. Aveline's is part of the story. Fenris, Merrill, and Isabela you get from sleeping with them and not breaking off the romance afterwards. Anders will have his outfit change for that reason too, but then also after his personal quests if you haven't done his romance.
Okay, so after I did some quests for Anders in act 3 on my first playthrough, his outfit changed or something?
Anyway I'm on my second one now (sword'n'board Templar pssh) and I'm wondering... is this a thing that can happen with all the characters? How do I pull this off? I'm about to finish Act 1 now so I assume I haven't already missed my opportunities yet.
Aveline, Fenris, Merrill, Anders, and Isabela have costumes that change, some minor, some extreme. Aveline's is part of the story. Fenris, Merrill, and Isabela you get from sleeping with them and not breaking off the romance afterwards. Anders will have his outfit change for that reason too, but then also after his personal quests if you haven't done his romance.
I know you can get Isabela's without the romance, and I'm pretty sure the same is true for Merrill. Fenris definitely has the romance requirement, but then his costume change is the most minor thing in the world.
Okay, so after I did some quests for Anders in act 3 on my first playthrough, his outfit changed or something?
Anyway I'm on my second one now (sword'n'board Templar pssh) and I'm wondering... is this a thing that can happen with all the characters? How do I pull this off? I'm about to finish Act 1 now so I assume I haven't already missed my opportunities yet.
Aveline, Fenris, Merrill, Anders, and Isabela have costumes that change, some minor, some extreme. Aveline's is part of the story. Fenris, Merrill, and Isabela you get from sleeping with them and not breaking off the romance afterwards. Anders will have his outfit change for that reason too, but then also after his personal quests if you haven't done his romance.
I know you can get Isabela's without the romance, and I'm pretty sure the same is true for Merrill. Fenris definitely has the romance requirement, but then his costume change is the most minor thing in the world.
I'm fairly certain Merrill doesn't ever get hers unless she moves into Hightown, but I could be wrong.
In Origins, does anyone know how many conversations your party members have that involve all three of them? I didn't know there were any conversations at all that involved more than two until just now when Shale and Zevran were talking, and he brought up trying to get Alistair to bat for the other team and Alistair actually responded to the comment (which he had misunderstood).
In Origins, does anyone know how many conversations your party members have that involve all three of them? I didn't know there were any conversations at all that involved more than two until just now when Shale and Zevran were talking, and he brought up trying to get Alistair to bat for the other team and Alistair actually responded to the comment (which he had misunderstood).
That one changes based on the third person you have. Wynne's is the best.
Zevran: Take a peek at that Circle mage. Must we speak of the allure of an older woman? She has lessons to teach us all, my friend.
Wynne: You have no idea, little elf. Keep your imaginary hands to yourself.
There aren't too many other than that one. I know there's one with Zevran, Morrigan, and one of Leliana/Alistair/Oghren. I'm actually not sure of any others, but there's probably one or two.
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ElixirSaving Your AssAlchemists and Belts EverywhereRegistered Userregular
Okay, so after I did some quests for Anders in act 3 on my first playthrough, his outfit changed or something?
Anyway I'm on my second one now (sword'n'board Templar pssh) and I'm wondering... is this a thing that can happen with all the characters? How do I pull this off? I'm about to finish Act 1 now so I assume I haven't already missed my opportunities yet.
Aveline, Fenris, Merrill, Anders, and Isabela have costumes that change, some minor, some extreme. Aveline's is part of the story. Fenris, Merrill, and Isabela you get from sleeping with them and not breaking off the romance afterwards. Anders will have his outfit change for that reason too, but then also after his personal quests if you haven't done his romance.
I know you can get Isabela's without the romance, and I'm pretty sure the same is true for Merrill. Fenris definitely has the romance requirement, but then his costume change is the most minor thing in the world.
I'm fairly certain Merrill doesn't ever get hers unless she moves into Hightown, but I could be wrong.
No, you're right. I did a floozy Hawke run and Merril's outfit stayed the same after kicking her out. All others will change, minus the potential Isabela snag requiring a Makers Sigh potion. But it will change.
Heh, looking through the Dragon Age wiki conversation pages for more three-person conversations, I stumbled across a hilarious conversation involving the secret companion (conversation just involves two people).
Zevran: So, err....is it Lord Loghain?
Loghain: I am no longer a teyrn, nor even a knight. Address me without a title, as you would any other Grey Warden.
Zevran: So just Loghain, then?
Loghain: Correct. What's on your mind?
Zevran: You know who I am, yes? I was one of the Crows you hired to kill the Grey Wardens.
Loghain: I thought you looked familiar.
Zevran: Well, I just wanted to report that I failed my mission, Loghain.
Loghain: You don't say.
Zevran: I'm terribly broken up over it.
Loghain: Hmm. Well thank you kindly for informing me.
You have Loghain in your party for so little of the game, I never really heard any of his conversations with the other party members. He has some pretty interesting ones. Also, apparently Loghain hates the Orlesians so much because they stole his puppy when he was a boy.
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
Heh, looking through the Dragon Age wiki conversation pages for more three-person conversations, I stumbled across a hilarious conversation involving the secret companion (conversation just involves two people).
Zevran: So, err....is it Lord Loghain?
Loghain: I am no longer a teyrn, nor even a knight. Address me without a title, as you would any other Grey Warden.
Zevran: So just Loghain, then?
Loghain: Correct. What's on your mind?
Zevran: You know who I am, yes? I was one of the Crows you hired to kill the Grey Wardens.
Loghain: I thought you looked familiar.
Zevran: Well, I just wanted to report that I failed my mission, Loghain.
Loghain: You don't say.
Zevran: I'm terribly broken up over it.
Loghain: Hmm. Well thank you kindly for informing me.
You have Loghain in your party for so little of the game, I never really heard any of his conversations with the other party members. He has some pretty interesting ones. Also, apparently Loghain hates the Orlesians so much because they stole his puppy when he was a boy.
If you do Return to Ostagar with the secret companion and Wynne in your party, it sheds some light on his methods at the time. Makes him sound a lot more tragic really.
Also, try him out with Dog in your party too sometime.
In Origins, does anyone know how many conversations your party members have that involve all three of them? I didn't know there were any conversations at all that involved more than two until just now when Shale and Zevran were talking, and he brought up trying to get Alistair to bat for the other team and Alistair actually responded to the comment (which he had misunderstood).
That one changes based on the third person you have. Wynne's is the best.
Zevran: Take a peek at that Circle mage. Must we speak of the allure of an older woman? She has lessons to teach us all, my friend.
Wynne: You have no idea, little elf. Keep your imaginary hands to yourself.
There aren't too many other than that one. I know there's one with Zevran, Morrigan, and one of Leliana/Alistair/Oghren. I'm actually not sure of any others, but there's probably one or two.
Yes, but that party banter made me laugh the most too. Zevrans charm finally works on Morrigan and it was all for a bet.
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Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I won't argue that the use of it was stupid though. I liked the game far better when it was just people getting stuck in a bad situation and being unable to find a way out. I also won't argue that mages in Kirkwall are retards and it completely weakened Abominations.
While I thought it was used a little too often, I think the concept of trying to show you how easy it is for a mage to become an abomination was to set up justification for Act 3. I mean, if you play DA:O it's easy to be like, "Well, mages can be dangerous and should be supervised but they only become abominations if shit really gets bad."
DA2 is more like, "A mage in Kirkwall can become an abomination at any time, with next to no provocation, and definitely doesn't need shit to go really bad to make the choice. Heck, even being possessed by a spirit can cause shit to go down. So now you understand why the Chantry and the Templars try to control them. Now you understand why they are made Tranquil. They are too useful to kill off, and too dangerous to keep unchecked."
All in all, DA2 is much more wordy on the subject.
FTFY. I kind of wish that point wasn't buried away in secret lore (which is ambiguous by design) because it makes the irrational Mage behaviour make a bit more sense.
I apologize beforehand for the following sounding like I'm being a dick, but it's simply what I believe.
Good to see a concession, surely.
Though I'm certain the entire team knew what they were doing before they got the "fan feedback", and the game shipped anyway, because fiscal quarter and what not.
Everyone working there knew exactly what kind of a puppet the game was without anyone else having to tell them that. But hey "It might just go unnoticed". It also worked to a large extent, which is the really scary thing.
At any rate, here's hoping to something proper with Dragon Age 3.
Though after Riccitiello's comment which was mirroring Kotick's exploitation one, and using "Dragon Age" in the same sentence, I'm not going to be holding my breath.
That thread is shockingly well mannered and positive.
Also that concept art looks gorgeous.
Those are screens;-)
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
Yeah, I don't think they needed feedback to know people were getting riled up about certain design decisions of DA2. What kills me most is that DA2 feels like more of a throwback than DA, in the sense that it's gone back to Biowares bad old days where your decisions didn't matter and I felt I had no relevance whatsoever to anything happening. That's really what has killed my interest in the game and I accidentally read an ending spoiler that amounted to "You basically have no say in why any of this shit happens". That kind of took any incentive for me to keep playing the game out of me.
I find it amusing to see they "learned" anything here. Bioware learned all of this stuff a long time ago and for the better. It's more that they "un-learned" what they already knew when they made this game.
Thanks for that. I pretty much always had faith that you guys both A) knew that there would be some trouble from fans after DA2 (though perhaps not how much!), and went into the inevitable backlash with an open mind and willing to learn from the experiment.
Thanks for that. I pretty much always had faith that you guys both A) knew that there would be some trouble from fans after DA2 (though perhaps not how much!), and went into the inevitable backlash with an open mind and willing to learn from the experiment.
It was always weird to me to hear from people about how arrogant and condescending Mike Laidlaw was. Two words I'd never apply to the guy.
If that means "we promise not to throw in the same tiny amount of recycled environments over and over and over and over and over and over again in DA3" then I just might be able to get excited for another Dragon Age!
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
That is one of the best ways I've seen a creator/developer address their community; it's not condescending, acknowledges some flaws (that were there, although some were greatly magnified), and you get some more teaser stuff.
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ElixirSaving Your AssAlchemists and Belts EverywhereRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I don't think they needed feedback to know people were getting riled up about certain design decisions of DA2. What kills me most is that DA2 feels like more of a throwback than DA, in the sense that it's gone back to Biowares bad old days where your decisions didn't matter and I felt I had no relevance whatsoever to anything happening. That's really what has killed my interest in the game and I accidentally read an ending spoiler that amounted to "You basically have no say in why any of this shit happens". That kind of took any incentive for me to keep playing the game out of me.
I find it amusing to see they "learned" anything here. Bioware learned all of this stuff a long time ago and for the better. It's more that they "un-learned" what they already knew when they made this game.
That is... sort of the point of the story? It always end the same way. It has to end with the
Mage vs. Templar war.
Sure, specific micro quests and side plots could have had more variation in how they were concluded. But the big three points
(finding the idol in the deeps, Qurani leaving Kirkwall because of Hawke and the Mage/Templar war caused by Anders bombing)
have to all end the same way. Someone posted it really well a few pages back, the game tells you how it ends right at the start. Its just that sort of story.
On an unrelated note, theory crafting on where those screen could be located? Starkhaven? Maybe Hawke went on a quick vay-cay during the interlude years.
I really don't understand the complaints that no matter your choices, the end is always the same! Because you've just described every single BioWare RPG and most of the rest of the genre.
Posts
so VULGAR
Then you have Aveline or Hawke as the only options for sword and board warrior. Not to mention if you don't buy DLC Hawke is the only character in the entire game who can use a bow.
Why make these talent trees and character builds if you can go an entire game without them being a factor? It feels like they had no interest in people being able to explore the combat engine.
Ahem..Varric uses a bow. Also Hawke can use a bow.
Also, I'm too lazy to read a guide on how to do it. I'd just rather put points in Avaline's sword and board tree and "I'm a beast" tanking tree.
No, he doesn't. Varric uses Bianca, which cannot be removed or replaced with the dozens of bows you find through out the course of the game.
or to be specific a Pulley wound, Self loading , Repeating crossbow. With a retractable bayonet.
Also Seb was given out free for a lot of folks.
Even on Nightmare, Fenris can wipe all the mook and lieutenant level mobs out in one skill combo at mid level, leaving just the single boss mob standing that can be debuffed, disabled, and focused down. Or nothing standing if there isn't a boss mob. At a certain point I didn't need more of a tank than him because of his insane AoE damage.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Gentlemen, and ladies, ...I was promised sad faces.
I was promised an engaging well-written game. We can't always get what we want.
Yeah, it doesn't complete properly. You'll get rewards for it and everything, but it'll never leave your quest log.
At least it's not just me. :P
I'll put money on it that it will get fixed in the next patch. C'mon Microsoft certification process, hurry the fuck up.
Anyway I'm on my second one now (sword'n'board Templar pssh) and I'm wondering... is this a thing that can happen with all the characters? How do I pull this off? I'm about to finish Act 1 now so I assume I haven't already missed my opportunities yet.
Aveline, Fenris, Merrill, Anders, and Isabela have costumes that change, some minor, some extreme. Aveline's is part of the story. Fenris, Merrill, and Isabela you get from sleeping with them and not breaking off the romance afterwards. Anders will have his outfit change for that reason too, but then also after his personal quests if you haven't done his romance.
I know you can get Isabela's without the romance, and I'm pretty sure the same is true for Merrill. Fenris definitely has the romance requirement, but then his costume change is the most minor thing in the world.
I'm fairly certain Merrill doesn't ever get hers unless she moves into Hightown, but I could be wrong.
There aren't too many other than that one. I know there's one with Zevran, Morrigan, and one of Leliana/Alistair/Oghren. I'm actually not sure of any others, but there's probably one or two.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
No, you're right. I did a floozy Hawke run and Merril's outfit stayed the same after kicking her out. All others will change, minus the potential Isabela snag requiring a Makers Sigh potion. But it will change.
You have Loghain in your party for so little of the game, I never really heard any of his conversations with the other party members. He has some pretty interesting ones. Also, apparently Loghain hates the Orlesians so much because they stole his puppy when he was a boy.
Also, try him out with Dog in your party too sometime.
Yes, but that party banter made me laugh the most too. Zevrans charm finally works on Morrigan and it was all for a bet.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
FTFY. I kind of wish that point wasn't buried away in secret lore (which is ambiguous by design) because it makes the irrational Mage behaviour make a bit more sense.
Also that concept art looks gorgeous.
I apologize beforehand for the following sounding like I'm being a dick, but it's simply what I believe.
Good to see a concession, surely.
Though I'm certain the entire team knew what they were doing before they got the "fan feedback", and the game shipped anyway, because fiscal quarter and what not.
Everyone working there knew exactly what kind of a puppet the game was without anyone else having to tell them that. But hey "It might just go unnoticed". It also worked to a large extent, which is the really scary thing.
At any rate, here's hoping to something proper with Dragon Age 3.
Though after Riccitiello's comment which was mirroring Kotick's exploitation one, and using "Dragon Age" in the same sentence, I'm not going to be holding my breath.
Those are screens;-)
I find it amusing to see they "learned" anything here. Bioware learned all of this stuff a long time ago and for the better. It's more that they "un-learned" what they already knew when they made this game.
Thanks for that. I pretty much always had faith that you guys both A) knew that there would be some trouble from fans after DA2 (though perhaps not how much!), and went into the inevitable backlash with an open mind and willing to learn from the experiment.
It was always weird to me to hear from people about how arrogant and condescending Mike Laidlaw was. Two words I'd never apply to the guy.
He can be out murdering children for all I care.
I care about the serious issues. The games.
maybe
That is... sort of the point of the story? It always end the same way. It has to end with the
On an unrelated note, theory crafting on where those screen could be located? Starkhaven? Maybe Hawke went on a quick vay-cay during the interlude years.