To date, Sonic Generations across all retail platforms isn't that much more than Sonic Colors DS. That's not including Japan.
...You know, considering the stereotypes about being teh kiddie and Sega openly admitting that Sonic is aimed mostly at kids at this point, you would think Generations on the Wii would be a no brainer.
I wonder how well the 3DS version did?
I doubt it did well, simply because 3DS lacks the install base of other platforms, and it also seems to be widely known that it's not a really great version of the game. Serviceable but short, and clearly phoned-in in a few ways. I like that they tried to differentiate it with some new levels but I couldn't justify giving it a chance with the reception it got, and also when I got Generations on Steam for $10. Maybe someday in an Amazon sale...
To date, Sonic Generations across all retail platforms isn't that much more than Sonic Colors DS. That's not including Japan.
...You know, considering the stereotypes about being teh kiddie and Sega openly admitting that Sonic is aimed mostly at kids at this point, you would think Generations on the Wii would be a no brainer.
I wonder how well the 3DS version did?
The only numbers I can find are from VGChartz.
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If with the removal of used games, customers bought less new games.
That'd tickle the piss out of me.
That's basically what I would end up doing. I'm not buying a console that stops me from renting, borrowing, or buying used games.
If all three new consoles did that, which they won't all do it even if one does, I'll go back to being a PC only gamer.
This, same as a digital-only future. I would love to see what happens when one out of three says "hey guess what, no more brick and mortar and/or you can't resell your games" and the other two are like
Of course with the current state of things we wouldn't get a good picture of the impact on sales, but it'd be interesting to see nonetheless.
If with the removal of used games, customers bought less new games.
That'd tickle the piss out of me.
That's basically what I would end up doing. I'm not buying a console that stops me from renting, borrowing, or buying used games.
If all three new consoles did that, which they won't all do it even if one does, I'll go back to being a PC only gamer.
I hear that. There isn't a single franchise on consoles that I'd just need to pick up a console for; I could be perfectly content using my PC and getting crazy good deals on fantastic games that let me mod them and will generally look better anyway after the first 6 months to a year. PC gaming gets away with almost no used sales specifically because of those low prices, too. Why in the world would you try to dredge up a physical copy of a game when you can find it for less than ten bucks and it will download and install itself on your computer?
I guess the lesson there would be that if you drop your prices, people will prefer to buy your new copies instead of dredging up used copies and then you won't even have to bother with breaking the shit out of your new console to keep people from using the used market. Imagine that.
Not to mention that I have no doubt that configuring a console so it won't accept used games would never hold up in court.
I guess the lesson there would be that if you drop your prices, people will prefer to buy your new copies instead of dredging up used copies and then you won't even have to bother with breaking the shit out of your new console to keep people from using the used market. Imagine that.
Not to mention that I have no doubt that configuring a console so it won't accept used games would never hold up in court.
In a European court. I'd imagine it could be up to individual state legislation in the US, since consumer protection laws are a bit tough to uphold on a Federal level - though I gotta admit I haven't exactly looked into the matter all that much.
Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I guess the lesson there would be that if you drop your prices, people will prefer to buy your new copies instead of dredging up used copies and then you won't even have to bother with breaking the shit out of your new console to keep people from using the used market. Imagine that.
Not to mention that I have no doubt that configuring a console so it won't accept used games would never hold up in court.
In a European court. I'd imagine it could be up to individual state legislation in the US, since consumer protection laws are a bit tough to uphold on a Federal level - though I gotta admit I haven't exactly looked into the matter all that much.
Even in the US, locking out the used market would practically be begging for a class-action lawsuit. Not to mention the often-hated Gamestop would devote loads of money to making sure the elimination of used market can't happen that way. It would get bumped up the court system pretty quick considering the money involved, although any system that gets released and blocks used games is going to tank long before the issue even needs to be resolved.
Nah, it's very easy to get rid of the used game market without being sued or anything like that. Of course, in the process, you also have to get rid of the physical game market. This can either prove to be extremely successful (iPhone or the PC market practically) or a huge failure (PSP Go).
I don't understand how it wouldn't hold up in court. It's their platform, their rules. There're already a lot of consumer items that can't be resold for one reason or another, some of them because their product key has already been used, and some for no other reason than being marked "not for individual resale."
Maybe I'm just bitter since I was busted for reselling packs of Capri Sun.
I don't understand how it wouldn't hold up in court. It's their platform, their rules. There're already a lot of consumer items that can't be resold for one reason or another, some of them because their product key has already been used, and some for no other reason than being marked "not for individual resale."
Maybe I'm just bitter since I was busted for reselling packs of Capri Sun.
Not really.
Well, I used to sell those type of items at various neighborhood garage sales. Especially packaged cookies.
As for holding up in court, depends on the state. California did just have the GameStop thing where they got hit thanks to the original packaging. You would think everyone would understand that used means "as is" but I guess not.
That and if the lawsuit got in front of a jury...
But back to my comment before. No way all 3 hardware companies do that. If EA and Activision care that much about stopping used games, they can design their own consoles.
It's honestly pretty simple economics - people only have so much money to spend. If you effectively raise the price of games by eliminating used sales without simultaneously providing for the savings they introduced, people will buy fewer games.
Publishers will bank on the notion that most of the losses in overall sales in such a situation will be borne by Gamestop and the like - though I don't know if they're honestly considering how many people buy games new knowing that they can recoup some of that cost by selling it back.
Nah, it's very easy to get rid of the used game market without being sued or anything like that. Of course, in the process, you also have to get rid of the physical game market. This can either prove to be extremely successful (iPhone or the PC market practically) or a huge failure (PSP Go).
Well yeah, that's why I brought up the PC thing and DD sales. The PC market has already more or less done away with used games, but at the cost of the physical market. And it's certainly worked, but the PC side of things is still a whole different beast from consoles.
Though I can think of a way for physical media to be locked to a system, but it would require a switch to flash storage so that each stick with a game on it could be locked to a system. Naturally, that sounds ridiculous, but no less ridiculous than trying to do away with used sales because publishers are bitching.
As for the possibility of locking out used games, I just don't see that happening. In the US, there's probably at least a half-dozen major chains that would legally fight such a move. Then on the consumer side of things, there's the whole issue of alienating most of the people who own consoles. I'm not saying it could never happen, but it would be utterly freakish if all 3 companies did that.
As for holding up in court, depends on the state. California did just have the GameStop thing where they got hit thanks to the original packaging. You would think everyone would understand that used means "as is" but I guess not.
I still can't believe that Sega didn't hire out Dimps to do a Wii version of Generations that probably would have doubled up the HD consoles and PC combined.
Nintendo has had the leading platform for Sonic game sales since the GCN. Pretty sure SA2:B even outsold SA2 on the DC!
It really wouldn't be that difficult to eliminate the used game market.
PC gaming did it years ago when CD keys became the norm.
That isn't to say the major consoles are going to go that way any time soon, but it'd be incredibly simple.
I've made peace with only being able to buy one or two used PC games a year. Sometimes none. I'd miss it on consoles, but it wouldn't be that new. Amazon.com will still have sales for new games--which is basically where I get all my PC sales, since they match each Steam sale.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
It really wouldn't be that difficult to eliminate the used game market.
PC gaming did it years ago when CD keys became the norm.
That isn't to say the major consoles are going to go that way any time soon, but it'd be incredibly simple.
I've made peace with only being able to buy one or two used PC games a year. Sometimes none. I'd miss it on consoles, but it wouldn't be that new. Amazon.com will still have sales for new games--which is basically where I get all my PC sales, since they match each Steam sale.
Just out of curiosity, what PC games do you even manage to find used that end up being cheaper used with physical copies than through online sales? Because with online sales, I can't even keep up with all the games I end up getting for cheap as it is.
From an economic stand point, getting rid of used games would be for the best in the long term market.
While for a quarter or two things might be somewhat grim, every major publisher is publicly owned. There will be year over year drop off of sales were the used credit market to vanish.
This would force publishers to retool how the sell and price projects.
This isn't even like crazy Pachter style analyst BS, this is just simple market projection.
Admittedly this move may also kill more niche genre, but even nis, atlus and xseed manage to stay profitable and they rarely sell full 60$ games.
As for holding up in court, depends on the state. California did just have the GameStop thing where they got hit thanks to the original packaging. You would think everyone would understand that used means "as is" but I guess not.
From an economic stand point, getting rid of used games would be for the best in the long term market.
While for a quarter or two things might be somewhat grim, every major publisher is publicly owned. There will be year over year drop off of sales were the used credit market to vanish.
This would force publishers to retool how the sell and price projects.
This isn't even like crazy Pachter style analyst BS, this is just simple market projection.
Admittedly this move may also kill more niche genre, but even nis, atlus and xseed manage to stay profitable and they rarely sell full 60$ games.
Like Rainbow said, that's not gonna happen until consoles become wholly detached from a physical medium. As it is, there are millions of console owners who don't have access to a decent internet connection. Broadband would need to become completely ubiquitous for a move to DD-only sales to not completely destroy console gaming in general, or at least chop it down enormously in size.
I don't think that transition would be successful with Sony and Microsoft as they are, either. Part of what makes PC DD work so well is that there are several sources to buy from, but each of those companies would want tight-fisted control over those DD sales.
I'm thinking it'll be a long while before the publishers can get rid of used game sales like they'd want without having console gaming collapse; not only does online architecture need to develop further, but the companies who would be in control of those used-free consoles would also need to develop the competence necessary to not turn the whole thing into a complete, overpriced disaster.
Again, nis, atlus, arksys and xseed offer awesome physical collections with cool swag. Hell, the deluxe editions are usually their 60$ entry.
The way companies do things would have to change, obviously, but that won't happen until they are forced.
Hell most earnings losses currently seem to stem from buying out studios, canceling half done projects and over extending on other projects in some vain hope of a cod level of success.
Maybe being forced to reconsider their practices by simple earnings loss due to high prices might make them actually consider doing proper development work instead of just throwing millions at the graphics budget.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Again, nis, atlus, arksys and xseed offer awesome physical collections with cool swag. Hell, the deluxe editions are usually their 60$ entry.
I was talking about physical media as pertaining to getting rid of used game sales. I don't see any reason why physical collector/special items would go away, but it's just not feasible for consoles to eliminate the used game market, keep physical copies of games, and have a console gaming market that's more than a fraction of what it is now. Even if a game only needs a connection to the internet to verify or lock a game disc to a console, that's still going to immediately turn off tens of millions of people to the console market and be a disaster in general. Even more so if all of the next-gen systems went completely DD, since then you'd need a good net connection to get anything, which many people who own consoles don't have.
As for dropping revenues forcing publishers to rethink trying to build CoD-sized hits all the time, I don't think that'll happen anytime soon either and there's been evidence for years that it's a terrible business strategy. Many of the publishers we have now will go out of business before they can grow some common sense; I don't see any major change coming on that front until stupid publishing decisions start forcing companies out of business and letting new companies come forward.
I have the feeling we're going to see annual Mario games from now on, perhaps alternating between 3DS and Wii U titles to make it feel not quite as whored out as Activision titles. If I had to guess, I don't think the Wii U Mario title will be a launch title like everyone expects, rather it will be their big fall 2013 game.
That or Nintendo will try to release them early in the consoles life. Top tier Mario games like the 2D platformers and karts sell well for years with no price drop. Might as well get them out early.
Huh, I guess Mario pretty much has been annual, aside from 2008.
2006-New Super Mario Bros
2007-Mario Galaxy
2009-New Super Mario Bros Wii
2010-Mario Galaxy 2
2011-Super Mario 3D Land
2012-New Super Mario Bros 2
I'm calling it now: 2013-New Super Mario Bros Mii
Huh, I guess Mario pretty much has been annual, aside from 2008.
2006-New Super Mario Bros
2007-Mario Galaxy
2009-New Super Mario Bros Wii
2010-Mario Galaxy 2
2011-Super Mario 3D Land
2012-New Super Mario Bros 2
I'm calling it now: 2013-New Super Mario Bros Mii
Luigis mansion...then at the very end of the life cycle, we finally get paper Mario ;(
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
I don't mind if a Mario platformer comes out every year, especially if they keep alternating between 2d and 3d games, since they are such different styles of game.
I dunno, I was pretty done with Mario Galaxy by the time I got all the non-green stars in Galaxy 2. 3D Land was alright because I could play it in short spurts on the bus, but I doubt I'd get super excited for a Galaxy 3. I'd still buy it because, you know, it'll probably be a really damn strong game. But I also won't shed a tear if we never see another entry into the franchise either.
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If with the removal of used games, customers bought less new games.
That'd tickle the piss out of me.
I doubt it did well, simply because 3DS lacks the install base of other platforms, and it also seems to be widely known that it's not a really great version of the game. Serviceable but short, and clearly phoned-in in a few ways. I like that they tried to differentiate it with some new levels but I couldn't justify giving it a chance with the reception it got, and also when I got Generations on Steam for $10. Maybe someday in an Amazon sale...
The only numbers I can find are from VGChartz.
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That's basically what I would end up doing. I'm not buying a console that stops me from renting, borrowing, or buying used games.
If all three new consoles did that, which they won't all do it even if one does, I'll go back to being a PC only gamer.
This, same as a digital-only future. I would love to see what happens when one out of three says "hey guess what, no more brick and mortar and/or you can't resell your games" and the other two are like
Of course with the current state of things we wouldn't get a good picture of the impact on sales, but it'd be interesting to see nonetheless.
I hear that. There isn't a single franchise on consoles that I'd just need to pick up a console for; I could be perfectly content using my PC and getting crazy good deals on fantastic games that let me mod them and will generally look better anyway after the first 6 months to a year. PC gaming gets away with almost no used sales specifically because of those low prices, too. Why in the world would you try to dredge up a physical copy of a game when you can find it for less than ten bucks and it will download and install itself on your computer?
I guess the lesson there would be that if you drop your prices, people will prefer to buy your new copies instead of dredging up used copies and then you won't even have to bother with breaking the shit out of your new console to keep people from using the used market. Imagine that.
Not to mention that I have no doubt that configuring a console so it won't accept used games would never hold up in court.
In a European court. I'd imagine it could be up to individual state legislation in the US, since consumer protection laws are a bit tough to uphold on a Federal level - though I gotta admit I haven't exactly looked into the matter all that much.
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
Even in the US, locking out the used market would practically be begging for a class-action lawsuit. Not to mention the often-hated Gamestop would devote loads of money to making sure the elimination of used market can't happen that way. It would get bumped up the court system pretty quick considering the money involved, although any system that gets released and blocks used games is going to tank long before the issue even needs to be resolved.
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PC gaming did it years ago when CD keys became the norm.
That isn't to say the major consoles are going to go that way any time soon, but it'd be incredibly simple.
Well, I used to sell those type of items at various neighborhood garage sales. Especially packaged cookies.
As for holding up in court, depends on the state. California did just have the GameStop thing where they got hit thanks to the original packaging. You would think everyone would understand that used means "as is" but I guess not.
That and if the lawsuit got in front of a jury...
But back to my comment before. No way all 3 hardware companies do that. If EA and Activision care that much about stopping used games, they can design their own consoles.
Publishers will bank on the notion that most of the losses in overall sales in such a situation will be borne by Gamestop and the like - though I don't know if they're honestly considering how many people buy games new knowing that they can recoup some of that cost by selling it back.
Again, expect nothing, just talk about already-announced games. In Japanese, which you do not understand.
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Well yeah, that's why I brought up the PC thing and DD sales. The PC market has already more or less done away with used games, but at the cost of the physical market. And it's certainly worked, but the PC side of things is still a whole different beast from consoles.
Though I can think of a way for physical media to be locked to a system, but it would require a switch to flash storage so that each stick with a game on it could be locked to a system. Naturally, that sounds ridiculous, but no less ridiculous than trying to do away with used sales because publishers are bitching.
As for the possibility of locking out used games, I just don't see that happening. In the US, there's probably at least a half-dozen major chains that would legally fight such a move. Then on the consumer side of things, there's the whole issue of alienating most of the people who own consoles. I'm not saying it could never happen, but it would be utterly freakish if all 3 companies did that.
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That's because "used" doesn't mean "as is."
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Nintendo has had the leading platform for Sonic game sales since the GCN. Pretty sure SA2:B even outsold SA2 on the DC!
I've made peace with only being able to buy one or two used PC games a year. Sometimes none. I'd miss it on consoles, but it wouldn't be that new. Amazon.com will still have sales for new games--which is basically where I get all my PC sales, since they match each Steam sale.
Just out of curiosity, what PC games do you even manage to find used that end up being cheaper used with physical copies than through online sales? Because with online sales, I can't even keep up with all the games I end up getting for cheap as it is.
While for a quarter or two things might be somewhat grim, every major publisher is publicly owned. There will be year over year drop off of sales were the used credit market to vanish.
This would force publishers to retool how the sell and price projects.
This isn't even like crazy Pachter style analyst BS, this is just simple market projection.
Admittedly this move may also kill more niche genre, but even nis, atlus and xseed manage to stay profitable and they rarely sell full 60$ games.
http://xkcd.com/386/
Probably because must get in under ea or ms/Sony under their partnership programs and such.
That and unlike western pc games, western console games have to have mind bleeding graphics or the audience is pretty non receptive on a grand scale.
And the console mentality right now in the west seems to be "go big or go home" while PC and mobile devs seem perfectly okay with moderate success.
Like Rainbow said, that's not gonna happen until consoles become wholly detached from a physical medium. As it is, there are millions of console owners who don't have access to a decent internet connection. Broadband would need to become completely ubiquitous for a move to DD-only sales to not completely destroy console gaming in general, or at least chop it down enormously in size.
I don't think that transition would be successful with Sony and Microsoft as they are, either. Part of what makes PC DD work so well is that there are several sources to buy from, but each of those companies would want tight-fisted control over those DD sales.
I'm thinking it'll be a long while before the publishers can get rid of used game sales like they'd want without having console gaming collapse; not only does online architecture need to develop further, but the companies who would be in control of those used-free consoles would also need to develop the competence necessary to not turn the whole thing into a complete, overpriced disaster.
I don't see where that concept even comes from.
Again, nis, atlus, arksys and xseed offer awesome physical collections with cool swag. Hell, the deluxe editions are usually their 60$ entry.
The way companies do things would have to change, obviously, but that won't happen until they are forced.
Hell most earnings losses currently seem to stem from buying out studios, canceling half done projects and over extending on other projects in some vain hope of a cod level of success.
Maybe being forced to reconsider their practices by simple earnings loss due to high prices might make them actually consider doing proper development work instead of just throwing millions at the graphics budget.
I was talking about physical media as pertaining to getting rid of used game sales. I don't see any reason why physical collector/special items would go away, but it's just not feasible for consoles to eliminate the used game market, keep physical copies of games, and have a console gaming market that's more than a fraction of what it is now. Even if a game only needs a connection to the internet to verify or lock a game disc to a console, that's still going to immediately turn off tens of millions of people to the console market and be a disaster in general. Even more so if all of the next-gen systems went completely DD, since then you'd need a good net connection to get anything, which many people who own consoles don't have.
As for dropping revenues forcing publishers to rethink trying to build CoD-sized hits all the time, I don't think that'll happen anytime soon either and there's been evidence for years that it's a terrible business strategy. Many of the publishers we have now will go out of business before they can grow some common sense; I don't see any major change coming on that front until stupid publishing decisions start forcing companies out of business and letting new companies come forward.
2006-New Super Mario Bros
2007-Mario Galaxy
2009-New Super Mario Bros Wii
2010-Mario Galaxy 2
2011-Super Mario 3D Land
2012-New Super Mario Bros 2
I'm calling it now: 2013-New Super Mario Bros Mii
Luigis mansion...then at the very end of the life cycle, we finally get paper Mario ;(
Here's hoping that Nintendo brings over the Style Savvy sequel as well.
Once those two drop I'm gonna pick up a Pink 3DS for my girlfriend along with both of 'em.
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