I'd kill for another 1 or 2 skill slots, I really would. Choosing six skills out of twenty-one can occasionally be a real downer.
this. Would help with Inferno. I have 4 defensive abilities, and 2 offensive abilities bound. Their lack of talent trees is cool, but they didn't need to try to make it kinda like d2 in that "frozen orb sorces only cast frozen orb". They could have just made it better by letting us cast more stuff without the need to spend every talent point in one & two talents like d2.
Diablo is a simple game. Yet after a decade of throwing insane man hours at its development, these bungholes at blizzard managed to reverse the most fundamental RPG concept.
In the beginning of the game when all you have is a wooden club and some rags on your back, you're a godless killing machine. By the time you've gone through hell and back and are wielding an epic ax of murder in a legendary doom armor, you're a wheezing vagina, getting absolutely smacked down by the same little shits that you brushed aside fifty hours ago.
Inferno should have been crazy waves of an angry horde from hell barreling down on you as you make your stand, 300-style. An army of various monster combinations to cleave through in an epic fight, think of the battles in LoTR movies. Instead the mastermind designers give us a triplet of leapers with shielded+molten+desecrator+jailer with a trillion hit points. In a 4 player game I've popped insanity+earthquake (4000% dmg from my weapon that beats every top hand-designed legendary weapon in the game) and the health bar barely even moves. All you can do is build defensively and poke away for 20 minutes while healing back. This is straight from the school of MMO design. It's shit. S-H-I-T.
This is a missed opportunity of tremendous proportions. And let's be honest, if this game came from anyone but blizzard, practically nobody would be playing it past hell by now, let alone defending it.
So looks like I'm going to be buying this game today. I've gone through the starter edition with all 5 classes... and I'm not sure which to go with! Witch Doctor, Wizard, and Barbarian are all very tempting...
I haven't dumped 70+ hours since the games release purely because it is a blizzard game. I am sure as hell enjoying myself.
Perhaps you are not, but making sweeping statements like that is rather silly.
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
I think it's the opposite. If anyone besides Blizzard put this game out, if it were a new IP, it'd be some amazing new thing. I'm almost certain the consensus would be a lot stronger, because there'd be no uber-entitled fanbase out there.
I kind of want my Monk to have viable self-healing options from itemization as opposed to from skills. It would be super if Life Steal or +Life on Hit scaled in any sort of reasonable way. It would be super if the Templar's heals scaled at all. Hell, even the heal from Serenity and Breath of Heaven quickly falls out of sync with my total HP.
It's silly that higher difficulties have massive life steal penalties when you can really only stack it to 5-6% in the first place.
I wonder about stacking +Life on Spirit Spent sometimes. Maybe I can stack that and +life from globes? Nowadays the only thing I'm spending Spirit on is healing or refreshing my Mantra active.
Perhaps stack a ton of +life on hit and use Way of the Hundred fists as my spirit generator?That is aoe of a sort. Does +life on hit work with the "hits" from things like Sweeping Wind and Mantra of Conviction (Submission)?
I don't mind building tanky and spending some skill slots and passives on tankiness but it's sort of boring only having left-click for actually damaging things.
I could be wrong on this, but I believed they explained that the penalty was implemented because it ended up generating too much health regen.
For some quick numbers, I am a monk in decent to poor gear for Inferno Act 1 ( I have an amazing helm though :P), my DPS on the paper doll with breath of heaven buff is right around 15K. I use Sweeping wind with the high damage rune, and by my best guess that's somewhere between 20 and 50% of my DPS. I'll say that it adds around 10K for the sake of argument. So at 25k DPS, with 6% LL I would regen around 1500 life per second.
For comparison, pre-nerf Mantra of Healing gave you 1200 LPS and they thought that was too good. So that's probably why the penalty is in place. I don't like it to be honest with you, and a penalty probably needs to exist, but it should be more in the 20-30% range.
Yeah Combo Strike being the second last passive unlocked doesn't make much sense. I was done messing around with spirit generators 25 levels ago guys, I need to stock defense now and 6 slots gives no room for a 6% damage bonus.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Diablo is a simple game. Yet after a decade of throwing insane man hours at its development, these bungholes at blizzard managed to reverse the most fundamental RPG concept.
In the beginning of the game when all you have is a wooden club and some rags on your back, you're a godless killing machine. By the time you've gone through hell and back and are wielding an epic ax of murder in a legendary doom armor, you're a wheezing vagina, getting absolutely smacked down by the same little shits that you brushed aside fifty hours ago.
Inferno should have been crazy waves of an angry horde from hell barreling down on you as you make your stand, 300-style. An army of various monster combinations to cleave through in an epic fight, think of the battles in LoTR movies. Instead the mastermind designers give us a triplet of leapers with shielded+molten+desecrator+jailer with a trillion hit points. In a 4 player game I've popped insanity+earthquake (4000% dmg from my weapon that beats every top hand-designed legendary weapon in the game) and the health bar barely even moves. All you can do is build defensively and poke away for 20 minutes while healing back. This is straight from the school of MMO design. It's shit. S-H-I-T.
This is a missed opportunity of tremendous proportions. And let's be honest, if this game came from anyone but blizzard, practically nobody would be playing it past hell by now, let alone defending it.
I agree with this sentiment if not the um...language and severity. Diablo has this phase somewhere in normal/nightmare where you feel like a god and the game is still challenging but it's all about mowing things down with speed bumps at champion or elite packs. Later on, it's all about getting one shot and spending forever to try to kill a single pack.
I think it's the opposite. If anyone besides Blizzard put this game out, if it were a new IP, it'd be some amazing new thing. I'm almost certain the consensus would be a lot stronger, because there'd be no uber-entitled fanbase out there.
I agree with this. Blizzard games have higher expectations and Diablo 3, for better or worse, has all the emotional sentiment and the legacy of the prior games. I think very few people in this thread are saying Diablo is a terrible game or anything, it just fails to meet the expectations they had for this game based on the prior games. It's how movie sequels are commonly viewed as not as good as the original. The sequel could in reality be way better, it's just unfair to compare it to a movie where people had NO expectations coming in.
Was just playing on Inferno Act 1 in a random group, and this other Monk just keeps dying. At one point, I was holding off a group of frozen elites on a staircase like a chokepoint, and when he ran up to help, it looked like he died from the frozen orbs detonating. First of all, you can avoid the shit out of that as a Monk, and second, I didn't even realize those orbs did damage, lol. Anyway, I asked him how many hit points he had, and he said "18k". That like, basically blew my mind. Just for reference, I have 60k unbuffed.
I saw that he had some slots ungemmed, and I offered a few stamina gems out of my stash to help him out. He seemed like a pretty cool guy. Anyway, we got to the Skeleton King, and Leoric does that animation where he winds up that big ass hammer, right? I pop Serenity, and it sweeps right through me and absolutely fucking clobbers not only a ton of his minions, but also that Monk and another player. Fucking one-shotted them both.
That shit makes me laugh, I dunno.
Yeah, the Leoric fight is kind of talor made for a Monk to cheese. Sweeping wind kills the skeletons without you ever having to take your hands off the boss. Blind interrupts his skeleton cast for some strange reason, and you can serenity through his whirlwind.
Honestly, Serenity is soo good, I couldn't imagine a build without it. Probably top 3 skills in the game right now.
The biggest flaw with the game without a question so far is the lack of a /nopickup toggle in some form. My 1 attempt at piddly Captain Dalton in Adria's Hut in Inferno so far ended with me splatted all over the place, but whatever. Inferno being impossible probably wont last one way or another and even if it does they were saying that already. But every time I have to drop crap out of my inventory is a sin against nature I tell you!
And they did the right thing with the secret level. Props to Blizzard. It could use a boss, though. Or more special mobs.
I think I need to play around and get the answers to some basic questions. I mean, if I combined +Life on Hit, +% damage dealt as life and +Life per spirit spent and went with a build that prioritized a megapile of attacks per second then that might work really well.
It all depends on what constitutes a "hit" and how many things +% damage dealt as life really works with.
I think they could very easily fix all the wizard problems by removing the CD on all spells except Archon and instead making spells with a CD have a high arcane power cost. If I want to quickly spam frost nova, teleport, or diamond armor fine but after x casts I will be out of power. The rune fixes would be pretty simply too, all these spells have a runes that decrease the CD, instead it would decrease arcane power cost. They would also have to change the passive ability that signature spells give arcane power on hit to signature spells that deal damage increase arcane power generation by x% for 5 secs, effect does not stack.
You could remove the cooldown on Frost Nova if it only chilled (instead of froze) champ packs and bosses, otherwise it's too powerful.
You can't remove the cooldown on Diamond Skin. Too easy to abuse.
I think they could very easily fix all the wizard problems by removing the CD on all spells except Archon and instead making spells with a CD have a high arcane power cost. If I want to quickly spam frost nova, teleport, or diamond armor fine but after x casts I will be out of power. The rune fixes would be pretty simply too, all these spells have a runes that decrease the CD, instead it would decrease arcane power cost. They would also have to change the passive ability that signature spells give arcane power on hit to signature spells that deal damage increase arcane power generation by x% for 5 secs, effect does not stack.
You could remove the cooldown on Frost Nova if it only chilled (instead of froze) champ packs and bosses, otherwise it's too powerful.
You can't remove the cooldown on Diamond Skin. Too easy to abuse.
Neither of those skills would be too powerful if you could only cast them twice without running out of arcane power.
I agree with this. Blizzard games have higher expectations and Diablo 3, for better or worse, has all the emotional sentiment and the legacy of the prior games. I think very few people in this thread are saying Diablo is a terrible game or anything, it just fails to meet the expectations they had for this game based on the prior games. It's how movie sequels are commonly viewed as not as good as the original. The sequel could in reality be way better, it's just unfair to compare it to a movie where people had NO expectations coming in.
as a LONG time blizzard vet and diablo vet specifically, I can honestly say that I feel D3 is a better game than it's predecessors in most ways. It's definitely different, and the differences take some getting used to.
If I had to change one thing about the game, well... prime evils should be fing seen, not heard, and they should definitely not be whining at me for blowing their shit up.
Leap with iron impact destroys ignore pain IMO. 10 sec cooldown and 3X more armor which gives around 55% damage reduction when I do the math for me. Versus 65% reduced damage for 7 sec(with rune) with 30 second cooldown. Leap also lets me leap, generate fury, do some damage, slow the enemies .
With Diamond Skin, all you need is to be able to cast it every six seconds. It doesn't take very much work to be able to regenerate half your Arcane Power in six seconds.
Yay. My Demon Hunter friend doesn't want to play multi-player anymore because he can kite easier by himself in Act 2, and doesn't die as often. Where-as I die a lot less in multi-player games and can actually progress.
I made it to Act 1 Inferno and I have been cruising through every single type of elite pack (except minions immune because fuck that shit). I'm only equipped with 5k DPS and I am using the build which I have linked a billion times now.
Everything is still stunlocked to death and there are only a few times where Critical Mass isn't proccing enough to sustain the flow. However those are few and far between.
I take it that Act 1 Inferno is suppose to be a breeze and that all my woes and worries will begin in act 2 and onward?
Was just playing on Inferno Act 1 in a random group, and this other Monk just keeps dying. At one point, I was holding off a group of frozen elites on a staircase like a chokepoint, and when he ran up to help, it looked like he died from the frozen orbs detonating. First of all, you can avoid the shit out of that as a Monk, and second, I didn't even realize those orbs did damage, lol. Anyway, I asked him how many hit points he had, and he said "18k". That like, basically blew my mind. Just for reference, I have 60k unbuffed.
I saw that he had some slots ungemmed, and I offered a few stamina gems out of my stash to help him out. He seemed like a pretty cool guy. Anyway, we got to the Skeleton King, and Leoric does that animation where he winds up that big ass hammer, right? I pop Serenity, and it sweeps right through me and absolutely fucking clobbers not only a ton of his minions, but also that Monk and another player. Fucking one-shotted them both.
That shit makes me laugh, I dunno.
Yeah, the Leoric fight is kind of talor made for a Monk to cheese. Sweeping wind kills the skeletons without you ever having to take your hands off the boss. Blind interrupts his skeleton cast for some strange reason, and you can serenity through his whirlwind.
Honestly, Serenity is soo good, I couldn't imagine a build without it. Probably top 3 skills in the game right now.
See, one of the reasons why I like Diablo 3 so much is because I also believe that Leoric's a great fight for Monks, but I utilize completely different skills: Seven-Sided Strike's a great backup for avoiding his hammer swings when Serenity's on cooldown; I use Breath of Heaven, too, but I use Penitent Flame instead of Blazing Wrath because I can fear everyone off of me when I have to; etc. People like to complain that only one or two types of builds are viable on Inferno, and it really isn't true. There are a lot of viable builds and playstyles (granted, a lot of them are pretty defensive), even on the hardest difficulty.
My friend and I have resolved to play Amish Mode until we hit a brick wall in the difficulty of the game and are forced to go to the auction house.
Trying to keep the game as fun as possible by keeping the gear somewhat balanced with the drops/crafting, therefore making treasure finds much more meaningful.
hi5!
I got a surge of excitement the other day when I got a really good drop.
I've died three time so far in my normal run.
The last 2 were against the mid-boss starting in act4. Forced to adjust my build some... first time I use a mantra now.
Looking forward to nightmare, and then hell, and then inferno.
But yes, I know I will go to the AH when I hit a serious brick wall.
Someone was mentioning the DH ferret dying near instantly. I never have a problem with the bat dying, but all the other pets do, no idea why. That's fine though, cause it's the best one by far. I'm sure that'll get nerfed and it'll be useless too.
I'm beginning to wonder why I have any vitality as a DH. With about 28k hp everything 1 shots me. If it doesn't, I get into the red anyways and just have to run. I'm thinking I might try dropping the vitality and trying a total glass canon build.
With Diamond Skin, all you need is to be able to cast it every six seconds. It doesn't take very much work to be able to regenerate half your Arcane Power in six seconds.
Diamond Skin is around 21k max shield, which isn't usually nearly enough for 6 seconds on Inferno, so sacrificing all (?) of your AP for a decent shield sounds fair.
I take it that Act 1 Inferno is suppose to be a breeze and that all my woes and worries will begin in act 2 and onward?
Yeah, act 1 doesn't need that much gear or anything, it's kind of easy. The last boss does need some dps though.
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I don't get why anybody that likes the game type would say Diablo 3 is a bad game or anything like that. Even with it's many faults, it's still the best hack'n'slash I've played.
With Diamond Skin, all you need is to be able to cast it every six seconds. It doesn't take very much work to be able to regenerate half your Arcane Power in six seconds.
Diamond Skin is around 21k max shield, which isn't usually nearly enough for 6 seconds on Inferno, so sacrificing all (?) of your AP for a decent shield sounds fair.
I take it that Act 1 Inferno is suppose to be a breeze and that all my woes and worries will begin in act 2 and onward?
Yeah, act 1 doesn't need that much gear or anything, it's kind of easy. The last boss does need some dps though.
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I don't get why anybody that likes the game type would say Diablo 3 is a bad game or anything like that. Even with it's many faults, it's still the best hack'n'slash I've played.
The more hype something has, the larger the backlash when it isn't absolutely perfect for someone. If Diablo 3 had been released by an unheard of developer it would have far less complains and far more praise.
I'm glad for the auction house, honestly. I didn't use it at all (well, except to buy materials to level the Smith) until I was level 60, but I'm really thankful for it now. I've been farming Act 1 Inferno now for a couple of days, and I seriously haven't found anything good. I've found some neat stuff, but nothing at all that I can use. The Auction House allowed me to close the gap a bit, so I can actually compete and be effective in that environment.
[edit] I'll admit that buying shit off the Auction House doesn't necessarily "feel" like Diablo, but the relationships between classes, gameplay, and items are a lot more complex now. In D2, all I really needed on any item, on any class, was +1 to all skills. You can get that shit all over the place. That's not necessarily the case in D3: I need Vitality, Dexterity, Physical Resistance as well as Resist All (for leveraging One With Everything to maximum benefit), +% life, etc. And I'm glad I can search for that stuff specifically on the AH.
I think I need to play around and get the answers to some basic questions. I mean, if I combined +Life on Hit, +% damage dealt as life and +Life per spirit spent and went with a build that prioritized a megapile of attacks per second then that might work really well.
It all depends on what constitutes a "hit" and how many things +% damage dealt as life really works with.
As expected, my testing confirms that Sweeping Wind does not give "+X health on hit" health. Updates to follow (slowly and sporadically) unless someone else already knows all about how this works?
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omega71Too old for a title, too ornery to care.Sacramento, CaliRegistered Userregular
I think it's the opposite. If anyone besides Blizzard put this game out, if it were a new IP, it'd be some amazing new thing. I'm almost certain the consensus would be a lot stronger, because there'd be no uber-entitled fanbase out there.
That's a statement I agree with 100%. It's not opposite of what I said at all, I said that almost nobody would be playing it past hell. I firmly believe that the only reason people (including me up to now) are willing to bang their heads against the inferno wall of terrible design is because diablo3 is "the big one". My claim is that if this was a new IP from another company, people would say it's a great game then just stop after seeing the dumb end game. And they wouldn't be too mad about it, because hey - great first effort on limited resources!
In the beginning of the game when all you have is a wooden club and some rags on your back, you're a godless killing machine. By the time you've gone through hell and back and are wielding an epic ax of murder in a legendary doom armor, you're a wheezing vagina, getting absolutely smacked down by the same little shits that you brushed aside fifty hours ago.
I, too, am upset that the game is easy on the lowest difficulty and hard on the highest.
In the beginning of the game when all you have is a wooden club and some rags on your back, you're a godless killing machine. By the time you've gone through hell and back and are wielding an epic ax of murder in a legendary doom armor, you're a wheezing vagina, getting absolutely smacked down by the same little shits that you brushed aside fifty hours ago.
I, too, am upset that the game is easy on the lowest difficulty and hard on the highest.
That's not what he's saying, though.
He's complaining about the source of the difficulty. He'd like to be facing ten billion moderately difficult monsters that melt easily insead of a handful of tough ones. Personally, I think both are appealing and would like to see areas with each.
Was just playing on Inferno Act 1 in a random group, and this other Monk just keeps dying. At one point, I was holding off a group of frozen elites on a staircase like a chokepoint, and when he ran up to help, it looked like he died from the frozen orbs detonating. First of all, you can avoid the shit out of that as a Monk, and second, I didn't even realize those orbs did damage, lol. Anyway, I asked him how many hit points he had, and he said "18k". That like, basically blew my mind. Just for reference, I have 60k unbuffed.
I saw that he had some slots ungemmed, and I offered a few stamina gems out of my stash to help him out. He seemed like a pretty cool guy. Anyway, we got to the Skeleton King, and Leoric does that animation where he winds up that big ass hammer, right? I pop Serenity, and it sweeps right through me and absolutely fucking clobbers not only a ton of his minions, but also that Monk and another player. Fucking one-shotted them both.
That shit makes me laugh, I dunno.
Yeah, the Leoric fight is kind of talor made for a Monk to cheese. Sweeping wind kills the skeletons without you ever having to take your hands off the boss. Blind interrupts his skeleton cast for some strange reason, and you can serenity through his whirlwind.
Honestly, Serenity is soo good, I couldn't imagine a build without it. Probably top 3 skills in the game right now.
See, one of the reasons why I like Diablo 3 so much is because I also believe that Leoric's a great fight for Monks, but I utilize completely different skills: Seven-Sided Strike's a great backup for avoiding his hammer swings when Serenity's on cooldown; I use Breath of Heaven, too, but I use Penitent Flame instead of Blazing Wrath because I can fear everyone off of me when I have to; etc. People like to complain that only one or two types of builds are viable on Inferno, and it really isn't true. There are a lot of viable builds and playstyles (granted, a lot of them are pretty defensive), even on the hardest difficulty.
I really want to avoid delving into negativity in this thread anymore, as I feel it was grating on some people in the last thread. I want to take a more balanced approach and move away from my previously sour tone to try and steer the discussion into more friendly territory, because if you can forgive Inferno this game is absolutely amazing, and it should be acknowledged as such.
Prior to Inferno, every monk I came across was very different, I loved seeing monks with 2 handers, some dual wielding, and others with shields. There was so much variation in skill choice and runes and playstyles, it was awesome - no question. The issue ducks, I think, is that much of that variation goes away in Inferno. Sure, we have one skill here or there different, or one rune different on the same skill, but in reality our playstyles are almost identical - be as tanky as possible to not get 2-shot.
I don't think the issue is that build diversity is entirely gone, it's just that my build doesn't feel much different than yours, largely because we're both stacking defenses sky high, while using shields. And whereas I'm using blind to buy time defensively, or give me a few seconds of unfettered damage, you're using Seven Sided Strike in a very similar manner.
But outside of Inferno, Blizzard absolutely nailed class design out of the park, and that's a constant refrain of mine. This game did class design amazing well, and the stats are also a quality design choice. The game is, for the first three difficulties, incredibly fun.
I haven't dumped 70+ hours since the games release purely because it is a blizzard game. I am sure as hell enjoying myself.
Perhaps you are not, but making sweeping statements like that is rather silly.
I'll say this much; I enjoy the shit out of D3, but I feel the pacing is a little off. In particular; Act 2. It is just chalk full of shit that leaps at you, ambushes you and runs away from you while flinging death. I just completed Act 1 Hell on my DH, and my drive to plunge into an even nastier version of that act is getting pretty low. With solid PA'ers around, sure I'll push through and get those last 6-7 levels for 60, but I enjoy massive epic battles in NM/Hell more than I cherish the idea of needing to treat 'trash mobs' as boss packs and to fear boss packs almost no matter what.
I know it's come up a few times, but it just seems like a conflicting set of goals; get higher in the difficulties for achievements and to experience the challenge, but even from the guys doing it, the word is that it's unforgivingly nasty, and after dying like 5 times to a lightning fast Champ pack in Act 1 Hell, I can only assume Act 1 Inferno is just that ramped up to 11, Spinal Tap style. So I guess what I'm saying is that I'll get there one day, but for now I'm happier doing things like moving the alts up instead (Barbarian just hit nightmare last night, next are Wizard and Witch Doctor).
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I think it's the opposite. If anyone besides Blizzard put this game out, if it were a new IP, it'd be some amazing new thing. I'm almost certain the consensus would be a lot stronger, because there'd be no uber-entitled fanbase out there.
That's a statement I agree with 100%. It's not opposite of what I said at all, I said that almost nobody would be playing it past hell. I firmly believe that the only reason people (including me up to now) are willing to bang their heads against the inferno wall of terrible design is because diablo3 is "the big one". My claim is that if this was a new IP from another company, people would say it's a great game then just stop after seeing the dumb end game. And they wouldn't be too mad about it, because hey - great first effort on limited resources!
I agree with that, I often ask myself while playing inferno... "What if this was released by an indie developer? Would I still exert the effort to play to completion of act 4 inferno?" The answer was a huge no. The sheer fact that the game is so popular and that I remember Blizzard's track record with Diablo 2 support has kept me playing longer than I would put up with on a smaller game.
So I know that the AH/commodities are still borked, but has there been any talk on fixing the Jeweler? Like, the fact that it's downright irresponsible to use it until basically end-game? Same could be said for the Blacksmith I guess.
Also, do I really *need* 40 pages of Blacksmithing/Jewelcrafting? Or should I just sell some of these things off?
Was just playing on Inferno Act 1 in a random group, and this other Monk just keeps dying. At one point, I was holding off a group of frozen elites on a staircase like a chokepoint, and when he ran up to help, it looked like he died from the frozen orbs detonating. First of all, you can avoid the shit out of that as a Monk, and second, I didn't even realize those orbs did damage, lol. Anyway, I asked him how many hit points he had, and he said "18k". That like, basically blew my mind. Just for reference, I have 60k unbuffed.
I saw that he had some slots ungemmed, and I offered a few stamina gems out of my stash to help him out. He seemed like a pretty cool guy. Anyway, we got to the Skeleton King, and Leoric does that animation where he winds up that big ass hammer, right? I pop Serenity, and it sweeps right through me and absolutely fucking clobbers not only a ton of his minions, but also that Monk and another player. Fucking one-shotted them both.
That shit makes me laugh, I dunno.
Yeah, the Leoric fight is kind of talor made for a Monk to cheese. Sweeping wind kills the skeletons without you ever having to take your hands off the boss. Blind interrupts his skeleton cast for some strange reason, and you can serenity through his whirlwind.
Honestly, Serenity is soo good, I couldn't imagine a build without it. Probably top 3 skills in the game right now.
See, one of the reasons why I like Diablo 3 so much is because I also believe that Leoric's a great fight for Monks, but I utilize completely different skills: Seven-Sided Strike's a great backup for avoiding his hammer swings when Serenity's on cooldown; I use Breath of Heaven, too, but I use Penitent Flame instead of Blazing Wrath because I can fear everyone off of me when I have to; etc. People like to complain that only one or two types of builds are viable on Inferno, and it really isn't true. There are a lot of viable builds and playstyles (granted, a lot of them are pretty defensive), even on the hardest difficulty.
I really want to avoid delving into negativity in this thread anymore, as I feel it was grating on some people in the last thread. I want to take a more balanced approach and move away from my previously sour tone to try and steer the discussion into more friendly territory, because if you can forgive Inferno this game is absolutely amazing, and it should be acknowledged as such.
Prior to Inferno, every monk I came across was very different, I loved seeing monks with 2 handers, some dual wielding, and others with shields. There was so much variation in skill choice and runes and playstyles, it was awesome - no question. The issue ducks, I think, is that much of that variation goes away in Inferno. Sure, we have one skill here or there different, or one rune different on the same skill, but in reality our playstyles are almost identical - be as tanky as possible to not get 2-shot.
I don't think the issue is that build diversity is entirely gone, it's just that my build doesn't feel much different than yours, largely because we're both stacking defenses sky high, while using shields. And whereas I'm using blind to buy time defensively, or give me a few seconds of unfettered damage, you're using Seven Sided Strike in a very similar manner.
But outside of Inferno, Blizzard absolutely nailed class design out of the park, and that's a constant refrain of mine. This game did class design amazing well, and the stats are also a quality design choice. The game is, for the first three difficulties, incredible fun.
I agree 100%. And I feel I would enjoy the game a hell of a lot more if Inferno was just for Achievements. That there was no "Inferno Gear" and Hell Act 4 dropped the best stuff, and all of Inferno was about the difficulty of Act 1 is currently. Which would is pretty damn hard when you can't buy Act 4 Inferno weapons off the AH to make Act 1 easy.
But somehow a gear treadmill creeped into a non-subscription game.
I have a lot of fun when I play with friends. A monk Tanking with me, boosting my Armor 20% and giving me dodge as well as taking the focus of some monsters so I don't get pummeled, makes the game pretty fun. Having a DH/Wizzard blowing shit up for us is nice. A WD for support is good times. Playing by myself is torture, and my DH Friend saying he only wants to group for Act bosses because he can kill champ packs better solo makes me want to quit playing all-together.
One of my two only complaints is seeing someones battlenet tag instead of player name while you are in game is fucking stupid in my opinion. You should at least people to see the player name for your friends.
And you could really use 1(2) extra skill bars, I'm hoping they add more in the future.
Do summons gain health as they level or just through passives? Do any of my stats besides weapon damage affect them (outside the passive that gives them thorns/life regen)?
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Basically I have no sympathy for anyone who tries to play any difficulty past Normal. It's hard? Yes, that is the point.
Personally, I doubt I'm ever going get a character past Nightmare Act 1, not because it is too hard, but that I just don't care to. That might change when I beat it with each of the classes, but I suspect at that point I'll just quit.
But even if Nightmare Act 1 had handed my ass back to me on a silver platter, I wouldn't complain, because, yeh, it's called "Nightmare" not "Sleepy Sunday Afternoon drinking Ice Tea on your front porch".
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
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this. Would help with Inferno. I have 4 defensive abilities, and 2 offensive abilities bound. Their lack of talent trees is cool, but they didn't need to try to make it kinda like d2 in that "frozen orb sorces only cast frozen orb". They could have just made it better by letting us cast more stuff without the need to spend every talent point in one & two talents like d2.
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In the beginning of the game when all you have is a wooden club and some rags on your back, you're a godless killing machine. By the time you've gone through hell and back and are wielding an epic ax of murder in a legendary doom armor, you're a wheezing vagina, getting absolutely smacked down by the same little shits that you brushed aside fifty hours ago.
Inferno should have been crazy waves of an angry horde from hell barreling down on you as you make your stand, 300-style. An army of various monster combinations to cleave through in an epic fight, think of the battles in LoTR movies. Instead the mastermind designers give us a triplet of leapers with shielded+molten+desecrator+jailer with a trillion hit points. In a 4 player game I've popped insanity+earthquake (4000% dmg from my weapon that beats every top hand-designed legendary weapon in the game) and the health bar barely even moves. All you can do is build defensively and poke away for 20 minutes while healing back. This is straight from the school of MMO design. It's shit. S-H-I-T.
This is a missed opportunity of tremendous proportions. And let's be honest, if this game came from anyone but blizzard, practically nobody would be playing it past hell by now, let alone defending it.
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Perhaps you are not, but making sweeping statements like that is rather silly.
I could be wrong on this, but I believed they explained that the penalty was implemented because it ended up generating too much health regen.
For some quick numbers, I am a monk in decent to poor gear for Inferno Act 1 ( I have an amazing helm though :P), my DPS on the paper doll with breath of heaven buff is right around 15K. I use Sweeping wind with the high damage rune, and by my best guess that's somewhere between 20 and 50% of my DPS. I'll say that it adds around 10K for the sake of argument. So at 25k DPS, with 6% LL I would regen around 1500 life per second.
For comparison, pre-nerf Mantra of Healing gave you 1200 LPS and they thought that was too good. So that's probably why the penalty is in place. I don't like it to be honest with you, and a penalty probably needs to exist, but it should be more in the 20-30% range.
I agree with this sentiment if not the um...language and severity. Diablo has this phase somewhere in normal/nightmare where you feel like a god and the game is still challenging but it's all about mowing things down with speed bumps at champion or elite packs. Later on, it's all about getting one shot and spending forever to try to kill a single pack.
I agree with this. Blizzard games have higher expectations and Diablo 3, for better or worse, has all the emotional sentiment and the legacy of the prior games. I think very few people in this thread are saying Diablo is a terrible game or anything, it just fails to meet the expectations they had for this game based on the prior games. It's how movie sequels are commonly viewed as not as good as the original. The sequel could in reality be way better, it's just unfair to compare it to a movie where people had NO expectations coming in.
Yeah, the Leoric fight is kind of talor made for a Monk to cheese. Sweeping wind kills the skeletons without you ever having to take your hands off the boss. Blind interrupts his skeleton cast for some strange reason, and you can serenity through his whirlwind.
Honestly, Serenity is soo good, I couldn't imagine a build without it. Probably top 3 skills in the game right now.
And they did the right thing with the secret level. Props to Blizzard. It could use a boss, though. Or more special mobs.
It all depends on what constitutes a "hit" and how many things +% damage dealt as life really works with.
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You could remove the cooldown on Frost Nova if it only chilled (instead of froze) champ packs and bosses, otherwise it's too powerful.
You can't remove the cooldown on Diamond Skin. Too easy to abuse.
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
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Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
Neither of those skills would be too powerful if you could only cast them twice without running out of arcane power.
as a LONG time blizzard vet and diablo vet specifically, I can honestly say that I feel D3 is a better game than it's predecessors in most ways. It's definitely different, and the differences take some getting used to.
If I had to change one thing about the game, well... prime evils should be fing seen, not heard, and they should definitely not be whining at me for blowing their shit up.
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
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I made it to Act 1 Inferno and I have been cruising through every single type of elite pack (except minions immune because fuck that shit). I'm only equipped with 5k DPS and I am using the build which I have linked a billion times now.
Everything is still stunlocked to death and there are only a few times where Critical Mass isn't proccing enough to sustain the flow. However those are few and far between.
I take it that Act 1 Inferno is suppose to be a breeze and that all my woes and worries will begin in act 2 and onward?
See, one of the reasons why I like Diablo 3 so much is because I also believe that Leoric's a great fight for Monks, but I utilize completely different skills: Seven-Sided Strike's a great backup for avoiding his hammer swings when Serenity's on cooldown; I use Breath of Heaven, too, but I use Penitent Flame instead of Blazing Wrath because I can fear everyone off of me when I have to; etc. People like to complain that only one or two types of builds are viable on Inferno, and it really isn't true. There are a lot of viable builds and playstyles (granted, a lot of them are pretty defensive), even on the hardest difficulty.
hi5!
I got a surge of excitement the other day when I got a really good drop.
I've died three time so far in my normal run.
The last 2 were against the mid-boss starting in act4. Forced to adjust my build some... first time I use a mantra now.
Looking forward to nightmare, and then hell, and then inferno.
But yes, I know I will go to the AH when I hit a serious brick wall.
Good times... good times...
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wra
I'm beginning to wonder why I have any vitality as a DH. With about 28k hp everything 1 shots me. If it doesn't, I get into the red anyways and just have to run. I'm thinking I might try dropping the vitality and trying a total glass canon build.
Diamond Skin is around 21k max shield, which isn't usually nearly enough for 6 seconds on Inferno, so sacrificing all (?) of your AP for a decent shield sounds fair.
Yeah, act 1 doesn't need that much gear or anything, it's kind of easy. The last boss does need some dps though.
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I don't get why anybody that likes the game type would say Diablo 3 is a bad game or anything like that. Even with it's many faults, it's still the best hack'n'slash I've played.
The more hype something has, the larger the backlash when it isn't absolutely perfect for someone. If Diablo 3 had been released by an unheard of developer it would have far less complains and far more praise.
[edit] I'll admit that buying shit off the Auction House doesn't necessarily "feel" like Diablo, but the relationships between classes, gameplay, and items are a lot more complex now. In D2, all I really needed on any item, on any class, was +1 to all skills. You can get that shit all over the place. That's not necessarily the case in D3: I need Vitality, Dexterity, Physical Resistance as well as Resist All (for leveraging One With Everything to maximum benefit), +% life, etc. And I'm glad I can search for that stuff specifically on the AH.
As expected, my testing confirms that Sweeping Wind does not give "+X health on hit" health. Updates to follow (slowly and sporadically) unless someone else already knows all about how this works?
Act 1 is amazingly easy. Act 2 when you get those damn wasps is when you are going to cry manly tears of pain.
I end up making a lot of trips to town, but I can't imagine just letting things rot on the floor.
Anyway: Is 60 the level cap or do you just stop getting runes at that point? Not that I'll ever be 60, just curiousity.
That's a statement I agree with 100%. It's not opposite of what I said at all, I said that almost nobody would be playing it past hell. I firmly believe that the only reason people (including me up to now) are willing to bang their heads against the inferno wall of terrible design is because diablo3 is "the big one". My claim is that if this was a new IP from another company, people would say it's a great game then just stop after seeing the dumb end game. And they wouldn't be too mad about it, because hey - great first effort on limited resources!
I, too, am upset that the game is easy on the lowest difficulty and hard on the highest.
That's not what he's saying, though.
He's complaining about the source of the difficulty. He'd like to be facing ten billion moderately difficult monsters that melt easily insead of a handful of tough ones. Personally, I think both are appealing and would like to see areas with each.
I really want to avoid delving into negativity in this thread anymore, as I feel it was grating on some people in the last thread. I want to take a more balanced approach and move away from my previously sour tone to try and steer the discussion into more friendly territory, because if you can forgive Inferno this game is absolutely amazing, and it should be acknowledged as such.
Prior to Inferno, every monk I came across was very different, I loved seeing monks with 2 handers, some dual wielding, and others with shields. There was so much variation in skill choice and runes and playstyles, it was awesome - no question. The issue ducks, I think, is that much of that variation goes away in Inferno. Sure, we have one skill here or there different, or one rune different on the same skill, but in reality our playstyles are almost identical - be as tanky as possible to not get 2-shot.
I don't think the issue is that build diversity is entirely gone, it's just that my build doesn't feel much different than yours, largely because we're both stacking defenses sky high, while using shields. And whereas I'm using blind to buy time defensively, or give me a few seconds of unfettered damage, you're using Seven Sided Strike in a very similar manner.
But outside of Inferno, Blizzard absolutely nailed class design out of the park, and that's a constant refrain of mine. This game did class design amazing well, and the stats are also a quality design choice. The game is, for the first three difficulties, incredibly fun.
life leech on hit: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5271499223 and
pet stat scaling: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5271500086?page=1
I'll say this much; I enjoy the shit out of D3, but I feel the pacing is a little off. In particular; Act 2. It is just chalk full of shit that leaps at you, ambushes you and runs away from you while flinging death. I just completed Act 1 Hell on my DH, and my drive to plunge into an even nastier version of that act is getting pretty low. With solid PA'ers around, sure I'll push through and get those last 6-7 levels for 60, but I enjoy massive epic battles in NM/Hell more than I cherish the idea of needing to treat 'trash mobs' as boss packs and to fear boss packs almost no matter what.
I know it's come up a few times, but it just seems like a conflicting set of goals; get higher in the difficulties for achievements and to experience the challenge, but even from the guys doing it, the word is that it's unforgivingly nasty, and after dying like 5 times to a lightning fast Champ pack in Act 1 Hell, I can only assume Act 1 Inferno is just that ramped up to 11, Spinal Tap style. So I guess what I'm saying is that I'll get there one day, but for now I'm happier doing things like moving the alts up instead (Barbarian just hit nightmare last night, next are Wizard and Witch Doctor).
I agree with that, I often ask myself while playing inferno... "What if this was released by an indie developer? Would I still exert the effort to play to completion of act 4 inferno?" The answer was a huge no. The sheer fact that the game is so popular and that I remember Blizzard's track record with Diablo 2 support has kept me playing longer than I would put up with on a smaller game.
Also, do I really *need* 40 pages of Blacksmithing/Jewelcrafting? Or should I just sell some of these things off?
I agree 100%. And I feel I would enjoy the game a hell of a lot more if Inferno was just for Achievements. That there was no "Inferno Gear" and Hell Act 4 dropped the best stuff, and all of Inferno was about the difficulty of Act 1 is currently. Which would is pretty damn hard when you can't buy Act 4 Inferno weapons off the AH to make Act 1 easy.
But somehow a gear treadmill creeped into a non-subscription game.
I have a lot of fun when I play with friends. A monk Tanking with me, boosting my Armor 20% and giving me dodge as well as taking the focus of some monsters so I don't get pummeled, makes the game pretty fun. Having a DH/Wizzard blowing shit up for us is nice. A WD for support is good times. Playing by myself is torture, and my DH Friend saying he only wants to group for Act bosses because he can kill champ packs better solo makes me want to quit playing all-together.
The wasps are fine unless you are melee, the lacuni and snakes are the real pain.
Been wondering about that before getting too into my WD.
Thanks!!!
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wra
And you could really use 1(2) extra skill bars, I'm hoping they add more in the future.
Do summons gain health as they level or just through passives? Do any of my stats besides weapon damage affect them (outside the passive that gives them thorns/life regen)?
Personally, I doubt I'm ever going get a character past Nightmare Act 1, not because it is too hard, but that I just don't care to. That might change when I beat it with each of the classes, but I suspect at that point I'll just quit.
But even if Nightmare Act 1 had handed my ass back to me on a silver platter, I wouldn't complain, because, yeh, it's called "Nightmare" not "Sleepy Sunday Afternoon drinking Ice Tea on your front porch".