I finally finished The Little Friend! It didn't blow me all over the walls like The Secret History did but I still highly recommend it. One of the reviews called it a "young adult mystery for adults" and I would say that's a pretty fair description.
Next is probably Zero History, after which I will have read every novel written by William Gibson to date(!)
I got these for Christmas:
- The City and The City (i herd you guys liek mieville)
- Lush Life (one of my friends recommended the hell out of this to me)
- The Wind Through The Keyhole (I have not read The Dark Tower novels in forever so we'll see how this goes)
I've been thinking of reading Gibson again. I quit reading his stuff in highschool and haven't really been able to find time/get into Gibson for a while; something about his style that I just burned out on (I read all 9 or 10 of his books that were released pre-2000, and I've picked up Neuromancer in the last couple years, and just wasn't able to really get into it.. Been thinking of picking up the ALl Tomorrow's Parties/Idoru trilogy conclusion (I'd need to read All Tomorrow's Parties again as I think that was the book that I quit reading him on.) If you had to recommend 1 Gibson book to rekindle the fire, what would it be?
Burning Chrome.
"Dogfight" is probably one of the best short stories written by anyone in any genre.
I just finished Rook which was decent, but I'm not sure I enjoyed it as much as many other people.
I didn't really like the jumping back and forth between interesting stuff happening in the present and some letter written from previous the Myfanwy Thomas. This really killed the pace.
"Holy shit this Grafter death cube is about to swallow me whole. Oh wait lets take a break to give a plodding description about this time I went shopping with an ancient god" zzzZZzz
I'm now on to re-reading Name of the Wind and I'm certainly picking up on a LOT of things that were hinted at in the beginning of the book that obviously wouldn't have made sense on the first read through.
Rook was definitely my favorite book of whatever year it came out. Was that just 2011? I don't recall. Either way, I hope for more from that author, whether it's sequels or something else. The amount of creatively upsetting monsters and scenarios just worked very well for me.
The good thing about reading fucked up literature as someone who's probably too young to be reading it is that you just tend to miss the impact of the fucked up stuff in the first place.
Shoot, I remember reading War and Remembrance in 5th or 6th grade and totally digging it, despite the fact I'm pretty sure there's a scene with a jewish mother getting gang-raped by Nazis in it.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
My 8 year old is reading Brom's "The Child Thief", and seems to be enjoying it a good bit. I'm still kinda surprised the guy is a decent author in addition to making art that I fucking love.
By 13, I was reading adult novels regularly. That's when I first discovered Vonnegut, Heller and tons of SF/Fantasy. If he had been writing at the time, Mielville would have fit snugly in my reading pile.
Adults vastly underestimate the level of complexity kids can handle. It's one of the major problems with keeping kids reading - schools don't transition from the kiddie books quickly enough.
I really liked it. It's Meiville at his Meivillest. Incredible concept, freaky monsters, fascist authorities, neologisms.
It's marketed as a YA novel, but I can't say I noticed anything with that particular aim. Felt like Miéville doing what he usually does.
wait what? Railsea is a "YA" novel? I... I wouldn't give a kid a Meiville novel.
YA means teenager. And why wouldn't you?
An 18 year old? OK
A 13 year old? Not so much.
There isn't a single thing in that book that is inappropriate for a 13 year old. Unless long words are a danger to teenage morals.
Actually, I'm not sure any of his books, even the adult ones, would be something to keep for adults. The handlingers are pretty gross... that's all I can think of. The mosquito people would give a little kid nightmares, but not a thirteen year old.
I know I'm tremendously permissive, but I can usually work out what others are trying to hide away - drugs, sex, shocking violence. With Mieville's work I'm drawing a blank.
I must be a bad nerd or something because I just couldn't keep reading Shadow of the Torturer. I got through about the first 20% of it and it just didn't hook me at all.
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
I really liked it. It's Meiville at his Meivillest. Incredible concept, freaky monsters, fascist authorities, neologisms.
It's marketed as a YA novel, but I can't say I noticed anything with that particular aim. Felt like Miéville doing what he usually does.
wait what? Railsea is a "YA" novel? I... I wouldn't give a kid a Meiville novel.
YA means teenager. And why wouldn't you?
An 18 year old? OK
A 13 year old? Not so much.
There isn't a single thing in that book that is inappropriate for a 13 year old. Unless long words are a danger to teenage morals.
Actually, I'm not sure any of his books, even the adult ones, would be something to keep for adults. The handlingers are pretty gross... that's all I can think of. The mosquito people would give a little kid nightmares, but not a thirteen year old.
I know I'm tremendously permissive, but I can usually work out what others are trying to hide away - drugs, sex, shocking violence. With Mieville's work I'm drawing a blank.
The bigger problem with calling Mieville YA is that the youngins are likely to miss half the damn point of many of his novels.
Which doesn't mean they can't be read by younger readers, just that they are't for younger readers.
As an aside. Temporarily put down Kraken, which has been quite good thus far - more on that when done. However, have been distracted, as my proof of The Red Knight arrived at work. Another 'low fantasy' piece, with lots of blood, gore, and bad people doing bad things. Initial impressions: It's sharp, snappy, and moves along very quickly indeed. I'm put in mind, somewhat, of early Glen Cook, mixed up with Mary Gentle's superlative Ash - though with less sex, so far at least.
@Stormwatcher: Might be one for your pile, too, if it winds over your way mate.
I must be a bad nerd or something because I just couldn't keep reading Shadow of the Torturer. I got through about the first 20% of it and it just didn't hook me at all.
I found the prose being a cut above 99% of fantasy/sci fi made it compelling, but it is a slow book. I didn't finish it the first time I tried it. You have to be in the mood for something contemplative and kind of trippy.
Yea, it's kinda interesting picking up on the little writing style subtleties.. Especially in the cross-genre authors. I really like some of the Mieville stuff and have been meaning to read Iron Council for a while, adding that to the never ending list of things to get too..
I wish I was a big enough geek to really get into the labeling of styles within the genres.. I just know the standard 'hard sci-fi' 'cyberpunk', 'swords and board sorcery' 'military', etc. Not style based groupings as much as subject.
Oh, that reminds me.. re: Burning Chrome. That was one of the books that really turned me on to Gibson to begin with, it, The Difference Engine, and Idoru are some of my favored Sci-Fi period and definitely ahead of their time in concept.. I also remember the story you're referencing.. It's the one with the Arcade game Red Baron thing, right? Or was it a space based one? I'm gonna need to find it or buy a new copy (it's probably been added too since the copy I have, I'd bet.)
I am in the middle of Legacy of Herorot - an awesome sci-fi book that I would never have picked up had it not been for my best friend lending it to me.
Also I forgot I had pre-ordered the latest in the "Day by Day Armageddon" Series and it arrived today. I began reading that as well. It is a bit different than the others - not quite the journal format the first two were in. That doesn't take away from the writer's style, though. I am still enjoying it.
Legacy of Herorot - Neat. Good to hear about people reading some Niven (/Pournelle/Barnes). I re-read The Mote in God's Eye a little while ago and I liked it quite a lot more than when I first read it. I find I've largely out-grown Niven's style ( I want more interesting prose these days), but his hard-science books are great. I haven't read Herorot though, maybe I should pick it up.
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Mojo_JojoWe are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourseRegistered Userregular
Yea, I've gotten similar feelings about Jon Ronson and his reporting, but at worst I'd say he puts intention/emotion into actions that didn't really happen for story clarity/comedy. I really enjoyed the psychopath test, and the Lost at Sea short stories recently last year. When you get done if you wanna talk about Psychopath, I still rememeber it pretty well.
All in all it was a fun read, I judged it a little early as he does return to his earlier statements in the second half and admit that he was making some sweeping generalisations that say more about him than the topic at hand.
I just wish there was a conclusion beyond "shit be complicated"
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
As an aside. Temporarily put down Kraken, which has been quite good thus far - more on that when done. However, have been distracted, as my proof of The Red Knight arrived at work. Another 'low fantasy' piece, with lots of blood, gore, and bad people doing bad things. Initial impressions: It's sharp, snappy, and moves along very quickly indeed. I'm put in mind, somewhat, of early Glen Cook, mixed up with Mary Gentle's superlative Ash - though with less sex, so far at least.
@Stormwatcher: Might be one for your pile, too, if it winds over your way mate.
Gene Wolfe gives me the same "ugh, I don't come from the same universe you do" vibes as Graham Greene and CS Lewis. Not sure why.
I think Wolfe is probably the most religious author I know of whose faith I find actually makes his work *more* interesting to me. At least in the BotNS series, I found lots of moments where he made statements or put forth ideas that were clearly coming from his religious background, but did it in a way that actually made me think "Huh, I get where you're coming from.", which is quite an accomplishment because religious thinking doesn't make a lick of sense to me most of the time.
Then, over holidays, I read through A Handmaid's Tale. I finished it in one day. I absolutely could not put that down. It was both fascinating and terrifying.
I generally feel this way about every Atwood book. Read Oryx and Crake if you haven't yet.
Legacy of Herorot - Neat. Good to hear about people reading some Niven (/Pournelle/Barnes). I re-read The Mote in God's Eye a little while ago and I liked it quite a lot more than when I first read it. I find I've largely out-grown Niven's style ( I want more interesting prose these days), but his hard-science books are great. I haven't read Herorot though, maybe I should pick it up.
I read the Herorot books out of order and they still worked. The book themselves has some fun ideas about alien life cycles as well as how we'll probably fuck ourselves when we encounter them. The later book has some interesting generational questions exacerbated by the setting.
As an aside. Temporarily put down Kraken, which has been quite good thus far - more on that when done. However, have been distracted, as my proof of The Red Knight arrived at work. Another 'low fantasy' piece, with lots of blood, gore, and bad people doing bad things. Initial impressions: It's sharp, snappy, and moves along very quickly indeed. I'm put in mind, somewhat, of early Glen Cook, mixed up with Mary Gentle's superlative Ash - though with less sex, so far at least.
@Stormwatcher: Might be one for your pile, too, if it winds over your way mate.
I'll look around for it. What's the agency?
Power Literary Agency, I believe. Recently did a World Rights deal with Gollancz though, but I don't know the details.
It's still good though, seems like the sort of thing you were looking for...
Gene Wolfe gives me the same "ugh, I don't come from the same universe you do" vibes as Graham Greene and CS Lewis. Not sure why.
What do you mean?
Wolfe always writes like he's actively trying to obscure whats going on to the reader. Its rewarding but if you just pick it up and read you're going to want to punch things.
Wolfe always writes like he's actively trying to obscure whats going on to the reader. Its rewarding but if you just pick it up and read you're going to want to punch things.
I would say that he doesn't obscure things, but he often doesn't make them plain. I would agree that he certainly doesn't make things obvious.
The stuff that isn't clear becomes clear upon re-reading (and then re-reading again), but doesn't destroy the first read through at all. It's just the next time you read it it's a deeper experience, and things that seemed obscure or mysterious are now clear.
I'm loath to use the word 'obscure' because it makes it sound like he's just withholding information unfairly from the reader, whereas he's just not telling you everything plainly. You have to work hard to understand everything, but that's not because the truth is obscure, just that it's hard to reach. It's up a mountain, not hidden in fog.
Wolfe always writes like he's actively trying to obscure whats going on to the reader. Its rewarding but if you just pick it up and read you're going to want to punch things.
I would say that he doesn't obscure things, but he often doesn't make them plain. I would agree that he certainly doesn't make things obvious.
The stuff that isn't clear becomes clear upon re-reading (and then re-reading again), but doesn't destroy the first read through at all. It's just the next time you read it it's a deeper experience, and things that seemed obscure or mysterious are now clear.
I'm loath to use the word 'obscure' because it makes it sound like he's just withholding information unfairly from the reader, whereas he's just not telling you everything plainly. You have to work hard to understand everything, but that's not because the truth is obscure, just that it's hard to reach. It's up a mountain, not hidden in fog.
More to the point, he doesn't obscure things just to be a dick. He tells the story from the PoV of the narrator, and focues on the stuff that narrator would, and is unreliable in the manner of that narrator. It's all consistent and reasonable and God dambit Gene, stop making me think.
Oryx and Crake is a damn good time. Atwood is always worth reading but that one in particular is a masterpiece.
I didn't like Oryx and Crake much at all. It was well written but the plot annoyed me, and the science fiction elements were just painful. The parts describing internet use made me feel like she'd never used the internet before. The genetic engineering stuff wasn't at all innovative or interesting for me, it seemed sparse in the way of ideas I hadn't read or thought about many times before. They were described in her creepy, depressing way, which made it worth reading to some extent, but it wasn't interesting enough for me to really enjoy the book. More characters would have also helped me enjoy it more. Yes, I'm aware my opinion of this book is probably unpopular.
I finally finished The Little Friend! It didn't blow me all over the walls like The Secret History did but I still highly recommend it. One of the reviews called it a "young adult mystery for adults" and I would say that's a pretty fair description.
Next is probably Zero History, after which I will have read every novel written by William Gibson to date(!)
I got these for Christmas:
- The City and The City (i herd you guys liek mieville)
- Lush Life (one of my friends recommended the hell out of this to me)
- The Wind Through The Keyhole (I have not read The Dark Tower novels in forever so we'll see how this goes)
I've been thinking of reading Gibson again. I quit reading his stuff in highschool and haven't really been able to find time/get into Gibson for a while; something about his style that I just burned out on (I read all 9 or 10 of his books that were released pre-2000, and I've picked up Neuromancer in the last couple years, and just wasn't able to really get into it.. Been thinking of picking up the ALl Tomorrow's Parties/Idoru trilogy conclusion (I'd need to read All Tomorrow's Parties again as I think that was the book that I quit reading him on.) If you had to recommend 1 Gibson book to rekindle the fire, what would it be?
Burning Chrome.
"Dogfight" is probably one of the best short stories written by anyone in any genre.
While excellent, I'm going to third (fourth?) Pattern Recognition. It has his trademark insight into the future, but this time it's a lot more imminent and also has great characters and fantastic prose. Probably his best book.
I'm reading The Fall of Hyperion because Dan Simmons has never disappointed me and Hyperion is one of those series I always meant to get around to reading. Great stuff, but having read Ilium and Olympos first I have to say that it feels like he was ripping himself off when he wrote those. Just a bit. A lot of parallels in his world-building, characters, and themes. But I think this is better, because Olympos in particular turned into a surreal clusterfuck.
Ordering up the Endymion books for when this is done. After that, I feel like i want to read some good fantasy again. Recommendations? ASOIAF is of course great and I really liked The Black Company books. Something that isn't a series of ten 1000-page tomes would be preferable, but if there's something really epic and good that I've overlooked I'm open to suggestion.
As an aside. Temporarily put down Kraken, which has been quite good thus far - more on that when done. However, have been distracted, as my proof of The Red Knight arrived at work. Another 'low fantasy' piece, with lots of blood, gore, and bad people doing bad things. Initial impressions: It's sharp, snappy, and moves along very quickly indeed. I'm put in mind, somewhat, of early Glen Cook, mixed up with Mary Gentle's superlative Ash - though with less sex, so far at least.
@Stormwatcher: Might be one for your pile, too, if it winds over your way mate.
I'll look around for it. What's the agency?
Power Literary Agency, I believe. Recently did a World Rights deal with Gollancz though, but I don't know the details.
It's still good though, seems like the sort of thing you were looking for...
Sounds like it! But you forgot to tell me who's the author
Ordering up the Endymion books for when this is done. After that, I feel like i want to read some good fantasy again. Recommendations? ASOIAF is of course great and I really liked The Black Company books. Something that isn't a series of ten 1000-page tomes would be preferable, but if there's something really epic and good that I've overlooked I'm open to suggestion.
I heartily recommend - if you can find it - Orks by Mary Gentle. An excellent antidote to all those ~serious business~ warporn fantasy series you've been reading.
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Burning Chrome.
"Dogfight" is probably one of the best short stories written by anyone in any genre.
Rook was definitely my favorite book of whatever year it came out. Was that just 2011? I don't recall. Either way, I hope for more from that author, whether it's sequels or something else. The amount of creatively upsetting monsters and scenarios just worked very well for me.
YA means teenager. And why wouldn't you?
Shoot, I remember reading War and Remembrance in 5th or 6th grade and totally digging it, despite the fact I'm pretty sure there's a scene with a jewish mother getting gang-raped by Nazis in it.
An 18 year old? OK
A 13 year old? Not so much.
To be fair, when I was a thirteen year old I was reading crap like Christopher Pike and good Stephen King.
Adults vastly underestimate the level of complexity kids can handle. It's one of the major problems with keeping kids reading - schools don't transition from the kiddie books quickly enough.
There isn't a single thing in that book that is inappropriate for a 13 year old. Unless long words are a danger to teenage morals.
Actually, I'm not sure any of his books, even the adult ones, would be something to keep for adults. The handlingers are pretty gross... that's all I can think of. The mosquito people would give a little kid nightmares, but not a thirteen year old.
I know I'm tremendously permissive, but I can usually work out what others are trying to hide away - drugs, sex, shocking violence. With Mieville's work I'm drawing a blank.
The bigger problem with calling Mieville YA is that the youngins are likely to miss half the damn point of many of his novels.
Which doesn't mean they can't be read by younger readers, just that they are't for younger readers.
Hell, so do most people. He likes to hide political commentary all over the place.
@Stormwatcher: Might be one for your pile, too, if it winds over your way mate.
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I found the prose being a cut above 99% of fantasy/sci fi made it compelling, but it is a slow book. I didn't finish it the first time I tried it. You have to be in the mood for something contemplative and kind of trippy.
I wish I was a big enough geek to really get into the labeling of styles within the genres.. I just know the standard 'hard sci-fi' 'cyberpunk', 'swords and board sorcery' 'military', etc. Not style based groupings as much as subject.
Also I forgot I had pre-ordered the latest in the "Day by Day Armageddon" Series and it arrived today. I began reading that as well. It is a bit different than the others - not quite the journal format the first two were in. That doesn't take away from the writer's style, though. I am still enjoying it.
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What do you mean?
All in all it was a fun read, I judged it a little early as he does return to his earlier statements in the second half and admit that he was making some sweeping generalisations that say more about him than the topic at hand.
I just wish there was a conclusion beyond "shit be complicated"
I'll look around for it. What's the agency?
I think Wolfe is probably the most religious author I know of whose faith I find actually makes his work *more* interesting to me. At least in the BotNS series, I found lots of moments where he made statements or put forth ideas that were clearly coming from his religious background, but did it in a way that actually made me think "Huh, I get where you're coming from.", which is quite an accomplishment because religious thinking doesn't make a lick of sense to me most of the time.
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I read the Herorot books out of order and they still worked. The book themselves has some fun ideas about alien life cycles as well as how we'll probably fuck ourselves when we encounter them. The later book has some interesting generational questions exacerbated by the setting.
Power Literary Agency, I believe. Recently did a World Rights deal with Gollancz though, but I don't know the details.
It's still good though, seems like the sort of thing you were looking for...
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
She's something of a silly goose about her stuff being science fiction, though.
Yes it is, Mags.
Wolfe always writes like he's actively trying to obscure whats going on to the reader. Its rewarding but if you just pick it up and read you're going to want to punch things.
She used to be years ago, before she discovered her inner nerd on the internet. Now, she does cons.
I would say that he doesn't obscure things, but he often doesn't make them plain. I would agree that he certainly doesn't make things obvious.
The stuff that isn't clear becomes clear upon re-reading (and then re-reading again), but doesn't destroy the first read through at all. It's just the next time you read it it's a deeper experience, and things that seemed obscure or mysterious are now clear.
I'm loath to use the word 'obscure' because it makes it sound like he's just withholding information unfairly from the reader, whereas he's just not telling you everything plainly. You have to work hard to understand everything, but that's not because the truth is obscure, just that it's hard to reach. It's up a mountain, not hidden in fog.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
I unreservedly retract my accusation of goosiness.
More to the point, he doesn't obscure things just to be a dick. He tells the story from the PoV of the narrator, and focues on the stuff that narrator would, and is unreliable in the manner of that narrator. It's all consistent and reasonable and God dambit Gene, stop making me think.
I didn't like Oryx and Crake much at all. It was well written but the plot annoyed me, and the science fiction elements were just painful. The parts describing internet use made me feel like she'd never used the internet before. The genetic engineering stuff wasn't at all innovative or interesting for me, it seemed sparse in the way of ideas I hadn't read or thought about many times before. They were described in her creepy, depressing way, which made it worth reading to some extent, but it wasn't interesting enough for me to really enjoy the book. More characters would have also helped me enjoy it more. Yes, I'm aware my opinion of this book is probably unpopular.
While excellent, I'm going to third (fourth?) Pattern Recognition. It has his trademark insight into the future, but this time it's a lot more imminent and also has great characters and fantastic prose. Probably his best book.
I'm reading The Fall of Hyperion because Dan Simmons has never disappointed me and Hyperion is one of those series I always meant to get around to reading. Great stuff, but having read Ilium and Olympos first I have to say that it feels like he was ripping himself off when he wrote those. Just a bit. A lot of parallels in his world-building, characters, and themes. But I think this is better, because Olympos in particular turned into a surreal clusterfuck.
Ordering up the Endymion books for when this is done. After that, I feel like i want to read some good fantasy again. Recommendations? ASOIAF is of course great and I really liked The Black Company books. Something that isn't a series of ten 1000-page tomes would be preferable, but if there's something really epic and good that I've overlooked I'm open to suggestion.
Sounds like it! But you forgot to tell me who's the author
is it this one, by any chance?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Red-Knight-Miles-Cameron/dp/0575113294
I heartily recommend - if you can find it - Orks by Mary Gentle. An excellent antidote to all those ~serious business~ warporn fantasy series you've been reading.