In fact, I know it is, because I'm being snarky, and I only do that on those days.
to be fair, I didn't start this one, and this conversation is more centered around the legality of police officers using your fingers as a means of unlocking your devices without your consent, despite the courts ruling that they cannot coerce passwords out of you.
I'm pretty sure a court could compel someone to unlock a device with their fingerprint.
The protection for rulings that a person can't be coerced to provide a password is based on the 'content of mind' theory and thus testimonial. Since biometrics aren't testimonial or content of mind, they probably wouldn't trigger 5th Amendment protections.
The best analogue I can find is that you could be ordered to read a statement to match a recording to your voice, because that's not actually testimony. Same thing with being compelled to provide DNA / fingerprints.
Apple's stock prices are kind of a victim of their own success. nothing they can do at this point will be enough. the new iPhone could give you free blowjobs and people would complain they aren't sloppy enough
Apple stock prices seem to always fall immediately following a product announcement.
Were I a person with lots of liquidity right now, I would buy the shit out of the stock, because come September 20th, it is going to recover all of the losses and post a modest gain. This shit happens every time, and I think lots of people get richer off of the Announcement->Release stock fluctuations.
The new iPhone is the best one they have made yet from a power / performance / feature level, and it is going to be purchased in droves from the 4s and 4 users who have been waiting on an upgrade.
They also just got certification in China to launch on the carriers there, including the largest one in the entire country.
It will be impossible for the iPhone 5s to sell less than prior phones. If anything, sales will probably double this generation, just on the back of China.
Yeah, but a boring, bestselling product that doesn't get much buzz at all is not the one you make while your company is on the rise. It's your Windows XP, your Guitar Hero 3. It's where you cash in on all the work from the previous years. But going forward, people are going to be looking for something that excites them.
I really don't want them to fuck with the iPhone or the iPad at this point.
The fingerprint thing is welcome if it works as well as it seems to, and eventual RFID in the iPhone for purchases would be swell.
How do you feel about NPR's reporting this morning regarding fingerprint ID?
Specifically the issue that courts have ruled the State cannot compel you to give up your passwords (including screen lock) but it can compel you to provide your fingerprint.
Well, your fingerprint alone is essentially useless when it comes to forcing an unlock on the new iPhone.
the way the sensor works involves sub-level readings along with the surface image, so a flat representation of your finger won't do anything.
Also, the data is stored on an encrypted portion of the A7 chip that does not get included in iPhone backups, and is not sent to iCloud or used in any data communication related to the antennas in any way whatsoever.
So unless the police officer / state authority forced you to place your thumb on the scanner and hold it there, having both you and your device in the room at the same time...
honestly, you have much bigger problems on your hands than the unlocking of your phone at that moment.
I mean, no you don't.
If the information incriminating you is on your phone, the judge can't make you unlock it but he very well might be able to demand you place your thumb on the scanner. The bigger problem might be inside the phone!
You can simply say no.
So are we talking some dystopian future where an Agent Smith pins you to the table and holds your hand down onto your phone to unlock it? Cause I think the latter option, that being "contempt of court" at worst, is the most likely scenario here.
You can't say no to getting fingerprinted when you're arrested. They absolutely will physically compel you to get your prints taken.
I'm not seeing why this would be different. Your print is your access code, and your print has no legal privacy protections.
Taking your fingerprint on a sheet of paper as a part of an arrest proceeding is vastly different from coercing you to unlock your device with your physical finger.
Saying no would allow you to take the challenge through the court system, and I cannot help but feel that the courts would side with you, the guy who did not want to incriminate himself.
So walk me through the reasoning you feel the court would use. What is the difference between:
reading a slide lock where you move your finger across the screen and the phone detects a finger and unlocks the phone
and
reading a fingerprint lock where you place your finger on the device and it unlocks the phone.
Remember that your fingerprint is not private. Anyone can have it, the court can demand you produce it, and the hand it's attached to, whenever it wants. They can be copied, lifted from the environment, and shared openly. You can be forced to produce them, including being forced to place your hand on a scanner for recording of the print.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Fuck.
I am alone in a 1,000 sq.m office complex on the top floor of an 80 year old building and everything is pitch black except the desk in front of me.
Last week, I had a on an Amish trade show. It was mostly about power tools, but there was another other thing that we didn't mention in the online version: The booth selling computers to the Amish.
The key selling point, perhaps not surprisingly, is all the things the computer doesn't do. Like the sign says: No Internet, no video, no music.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Last week, I had a on an Amish trade show. It was mostly about power tools, but there was another other thing that we didn't mention in the online version: The booth selling computers to the Amish.
The key selling point, perhaps not surprisingly, is all the things the computer doesn't do. Like the sign says: No Internet, no video, no music.
the amish are like the irish monks of the middle ages, keeping the art of ASCII porn alive in a degraded age
Last week, I had a on an Amish trade show. It was mostly about power tools, but there was another other thing that we didn't mention in the online version: The booth selling computers to the Amish.
The key selling point, perhaps not surprisingly, is all the things the computer doesn't do. Like the sign says: No Internet, no video, no music.
So basically an Amish trade show is a trade show from twenty five years ago.
They shouldn't ask for the fingerprint because of the context of what it is. It's a unique identifier that only you have (the physical finger). Fingerprints as evidence or identification are different than using biometrics as a form of security as a lifted fingerprint is essentially useless unless the technology is terrible.
Whether that is thing is another question.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
All those quotes do is show that Dawkins is not very familiar with the fact that different people are traumatized more or less easily than others, and that since he was someone who was not easily traumatized, everyone should just get over it.
Apple's stock prices are kind of a victim of their own success. nothing they can do at this point will be enough. the new iPhone could give you free blowjobs and people would complain they aren't sloppy enough
Apple stock prices seem to always fall immediately following a product announcement.
Were I a person with lots of liquidity right now, I would buy the shit out of the stock, because come September 20th, it is going to recover all of the losses and post a modest gain. This shit happens every time, and I think lots of people get richer off of the Announcement->Release stock fluctuations.
The new iPhone is the best one they have made yet from a power / performance / feature level, and it is going to be purchased in droves from the 4s and 4 users who have been waiting on an upgrade.
They also just got certification in China to launch on the carriers there, including the largest one in the entire country.
It will be impossible for the iPhone 5s to sell less than prior phones. If anything, sales will probably double this generation, just on the back of China.
Yeah, but a boring, bestselling product that doesn't get much buzz at all is not the one you make while your company is on the rise. It's your Windows XP, your Guitar Hero 3. It's where you cash in on all the work from the previous years. But going forward, people are going to be looking for something that excites them.
I really don't want them to fuck with the iPhone or the iPad at this point.
The fingerprint thing is welcome if it works as well as it seems to, and eventual RFID in the iPhone for purchases would be swell.
How do you feel about NPR's reporting this morning regarding fingerprint ID?
Specifically the issue that courts have ruled the State cannot compel you to give up your passwords (including screen lock) but it can compel you to provide your fingerprint.
Well, your fingerprint alone is essentially useless when it comes to forcing an unlock on the new iPhone.
the way the sensor works involves sub-level readings along with the surface image, so a flat representation of your finger won't do anything.
Also, the data is stored on an encrypted portion of the A7 chip that does not get included in iPhone backups, and is not sent to iCloud or used in any data communication related to the antennas in any way whatsoever.
So unless the police officer / state authority forced you to place your thumb on the scanner and hold it there, having both you and your device in the room at the same time...
honestly, you have much bigger problems on your hands than the unlocking of your phone at that moment.
I mean, no you don't.
If the information incriminating you is on your phone, the judge can't make you unlock it but he very well might be able to demand you place your thumb on the scanner. The bigger problem might be inside the phone!
You can simply say no.
So are we talking some dystopian future where an Agent Smith pins you to the table and holds your hand down onto your phone to unlock it? Cause I think the latter option, that being "contempt of court" at worst, is the most likely scenario here.
You can't say no to getting fingerprinted when you're arrested. They absolutely will physically compel you to get your prints taken.
I'm not seeing why this would be different. Your print is your access code, and your print has no legal privacy protections.
Taking your fingerprint on a sheet of paper as a part of an arrest proceeding is vastly different from coercing you to unlock your device with your physical finger.
Saying no would allow you to take the challenge through the court system, and I cannot help but feel that the courts would side with you, the guy who did not want to incriminate himself.
So walk me through the reasoning you feel the court would use. What is the difference between:
reading a slide lock where you move your finger across the screen and the phone detects a finger and unlocks the phone
and
reading a fingerprint lock where you place your finger on the device and it unlocks the phone.
Remember that your fingerprint is not private. Anyone can have it, the court can demand you produce it, and the hand it's attached to, whenever it wants. They can be copied, lifted from the environment, and shared openly. You can be forced to produce them, including being forced to place your hand on a scanner for recording of the print.
Right but as he said the iphone's lock can't be opened by the copy they take or a picture. The police would have to physically compel you to touch the sensor to unlock it. So that's not about the privacy of your fingerprints anymore. It's about law enforcement forcing you to take an action that is possibly self incriminating.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
So walk me through the reasoning you feel the court would use. What is the difference between:
reading a slide lock where you move your finger across the screen and the phone detects a finger and unlocks the phone
and
reading a fingerprint lock where you place your finger on the device and it unlocks the phone.
Remember that your fingerprint is not private. Anyone can have it, the court can demand you produce it, and the hand it's attached to, whenever it wants. They can be copied, lifted from the environment, and shared openly. You can be forced to produce them, including being forced to place your hand on a scanner for recording of the print.
Your fingerprint, to tie you to the scene of a crime or location or for the purposes of identifying you? You are absolutely right.
Your body, however, is yours. Your fingerprint is not what is unlocking the device, it is the unique properties of your body, combined with the fingerprint that does so.
And it appears the supreme court agrees that your body cannot be compelled, especially by law enforcement, to give evidence away that may incriminate you, and that does not allow for escalation to a warrant.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I saw my mirror image suddenly in a window and almost died
PSN: Honkalot
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LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
People will volunteer to unlock their iphones with their fingerprints
I'd say the legality would probably be a court order level. if a judge ordered you to unlock your phone for the purposes of a court proceeding it would be legal. but it's hardly the same level of freedom as the cops taking your fingerprints in ink then going and using it to unlock your phone.
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Tiger BurningDig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tuberegular
All those quotes do is show that Dawkins is not very familiar with the fact that different people are traumatized more or less easily than others, and that since he was someone who was not easily traumatized, everyone should just get over it.
This is basically the same myopia as was behind his comments on the elevator thing, which were essentially "as a straight white male, I am not bothered by this, so anyone who is is merely being silly."
Apple's stock prices are kind of a victim of their own success. nothing they can do at this point will be enough. the new iPhone could give you free blowjobs and people would complain they aren't sloppy enough
Apple stock prices seem to always fall immediately following a product announcement.
Were I a person with lots of liquidity right now, I would buy the shit out of the stock, because come September 20th, it is going to recover all of the losses and post a modest gain. This shit happens every time, and I think lots of people get richer off of the Announcement->Release stock fluctuations.
The new iPhone is the best one they have made yet from a power / performance / feature level, and it is going to be purchased in droves from the 4s and 4 users who have been waiting on an upgrade.
They also just got certification in China to launch on the carriers there, including the largest one in the entire country.
It will be impossible for the iPhone 5s to sell less than prior phones. If anything, sales will probably double this generation, just on the back of China.
Yeah, but a boring, bestselling product that doesn't get much buzz at all is not the one you make while your company is on the rise. It's your Windows XP, your Guitar Hero 3. It's where you cash in on all the work from the previous years. But going forward, people are going to be looking for something that excites them.
I really don't want them to fuck with the iPhone or the iPad at this point.
The fingerprint thing is welcome if it works as well as it seems to, and eventual RFID in the iPhone for purchases would be swell.
How do you feel about NPR's reporting this morning regarding fingerprint ID?
Specifically the issue that courts have ruled the State cannot compel you to give up your passwords (including screen lock) but it can compel you to provide your fingerprint.
Well, your fingerprint alone is essentially useless when it comes to forcing an unlock on the new iPhone.
the way the sensor works involves sub-level readings along with the surface image, so a flat representation of your finger won't do anything.
Also, the data is stored on an encrypted portion of the A7 chip that does not get included in iPhone backups, and is not sent to iCloud or used in any data communication related to the antennas in any way whatsoever.
So unless the police officer / state authority forced you to place your thumb on the scanner and hold it there, having both you and your device in the room at the same time...
honestly, you have much bigger problems on your hands than the unlocking of your phone at that moment.
I mean, no you don't.
If the information incriminating you is on your phone, the judge can't make you unlock it but he very well might be able to demand you place your thumb on the scanner. The bigger problem might be inside the phone!
You can simply say no.
So are we talking some dystopian future where an Agent Smith pins you to the table and holds your hand down onto your phone to unlock it? Cause I think the latter option, that being "contempt of court" at worst, is the most likely scenario here.
You can't say no to getting fingerprinted when you're arrested. They absolutely will physically compel you to get your prints taken.
I'm not seeing why this would be different. Your print is your access code, and your print has no legal privacy protections.
Taking your fingerprint on a sheet of paper as a part of an arrest proceeding is vastly different from coercing you to unlock your device with your physical finger.
Saying no would allow you to take the challenge through the court system, and I cannot help but feel that the courts would side with you, the guy who did not want to incriminate himself.
So walk me through the reasoning you feel the court would use. What is the difference between:
reading a slide lock where you move your finger across the screen and the phone detects a finger and unlocks the phone
and
reading a fingerprint lock where you place your finger on the device and it unlocks the phone.
Remember that your fingerprint is not private. Anyone can have it, the court can demand you produce it, and the hand it's attached to, whenever it wants. They can be copied, lifted from the environment, and shared openly. You can be forced to produce them, including being forced to place your hand on a scanner for recording of the print.
Right but as he said the iphone's lock can't be opened by the copy they take or a picture. The police would have to physically compel you to touch the sensor to unlock it. So that's not about the privacy of your fingerprints anymore. It's about law enforcement forcing you to take an action that is possibly self incriminating.
They can already do this, with your fingerprints. They regularly do this!
i dont know how to interact with them and i feel like squishing my face up and acting excited about whatever they are excited about is weird and inappropriate
I like XP. Like, I sort of wish it was license free or something. Like, at this point, I basically cantrip XP VMs.
Oh, I need somewhere to test this, or this old as piece of software doesn't work, or 'lol... how virusy is this virus'. Just make a copy of my base XP vm, spin it up in VMware and let's have a look. Hardly slows my pc down.
Like, I've forgotten more about xp than I know about windows 7. Hacked every bit of the UI. Run bunch of explorer replacements. Run every imaginable type of service and server.
custom building XP embedded environments.
ahhh.... it was so nice.
7 is just such culture by comparison though. Integrating system repair with the boot manager? An installer that's not shit. A decent task manager. Search that hits all the little bits of the control panel. Not running in full admin mode all time. Stupid fucking users who don't know how not to get malware not constantly running admin mode.
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Is there not already precedent regarding passwords?
there is. And this a password in which your fingerprint is only one component of.
I do NOT see the courts ruling in favor of police arresting people because they refuse to compromise their right to privacy by being compelled to unlock their phone.
This has search and seizure written all over it.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Posts
I mean that there seems to be a pattern to me.
Can I just do my I told you so dance over here or
Golden eagle?
this new airsoft gun is so fuckin sweet
it looks tacticool
I was prepared for it to be worse than it was. It was relatively harmless.
I'm pretty sure a court could compel someone to unlock a device with their fingerprint.
The protection for rulings that a person can't be coerced to provide a password is based on the 'content of mind' theory and thus testimonial. Since biometrics aren't testimonial or content of mind, they probably wouldn't trigger 5th Amendment protections.
The best analogue I can find is that you could be ordered to read a statement to match a recording to your voice, because that's not actually testimony. Same thing with being compelled to provide DNA / fingerprints.
Be an interesting case though.
So walk me through the reasoning you feel the court would use. What is the difference between:
reading a slide lock where you move your finger across the screen and the phone detects a finger and unlocks the phone
and
reading a fingerprint lock where you place your finger on the device and it unlocks the phone.
Remember that your fingerprint is not private. Anyone can have it, the court can demand you produce it, and the hand it's attached to, whenever it wants. They can be copied, lifted from the environment, and shared openly. You can be forced to produce them, including being forced to place your hand on a scanner for recording of the print.
I am alone in a 1,000 sq.m office complex on the top floor of an 80 year old building and everything is pitch black except the desk in front of me.
you should probably play dead space or system shock 2
That's what he said.
the amish are like the irish monks of the middle ages, keeping the art of ASCII porn alive in a degraded age
This is TERRIFYING!
Fuck you, panic attacks! :P
So basically an Amish trade show is a trade show from twenty five years ago.
Yes, this seemed more like him feeling we need to be really careful about creating demons where there are none.
watch out for those grues
Whether that is thing is another question.
It really does always work.
Right but as he said the iphone's lock can't be opened by the copy they take or a picture. The police would have to physically compel you to touch the sensor to unlock it. So that's not about the privacy of your fingerprints anymore. It's about law enforcement forcing you to take an action that is possibly self incriminating.
Your fingerprint, to tie you to the scene of a crime or location or for the purposes of identifying you? You are absolutely right.
Your body, however, is yours. Your fingerprint is not what is unlocking the device, it is the unique properties of your body, combined with the fingerprint that does so.
http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?s=3268798&clienttype=printable
And it appears the supreme court agrees that your body cannot be compelled, especially by law enforcement, to give evidence away that may incriminate you, and that does not allow for escalation to a warrant.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Not because of the law
but because of the implication.
heh
This is basically the same myopia as was behind his comments on the elevator thing, which were essentially "as a straight white male, I am not bothered by this, so anyone who is is merely being silly."
They can already do this, with your fingerprints. They regularly do this!
Well, it was bound to happen when atheists started proclaiming a cranky old pseudo-scientist as some kind of Atheist Messiah.
like
i dont know how to interact with them and i feel like squishing my face up and acting excited about whatever they are excited about is weird and inappropriate
god damn you chris hansen
Oh, I need somewhere to test this, or this old as piece of software doesn't work, or 'lol... how virusy is this virus'. Just make a copy of my base XP vm, spin it up in VMware and let's have a look. Hardly slows my pc down.
Like, I've forgotten more about xp than I know about windows 7. Hacked every bit of the UI. Run bunch of explorer replacements. Run every imaginable type of service and server.
custom building XP embedded environments.
ahhh.... it was so nice.
7 is just such culture by comparison though. Integrating system repair with the boot manager? An installer that's not shit. A decent task manager. Search that hits all the little bits of the control panel. Not running in full admin mode all time. Stupid fucking users who don't know how not to get malware not constantly running admin mode.
there is. And this a password in which your fingerprint is only one component of.
I do NOT see the courts ruling in favor of police arresting people because they refuse to compromise their right to privacy by being compelled to unlock their phone.
This has search and seizure written all over it.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...