Not a joke: I was going to take Reina Chess to Worlds until Blue Sun was announced. That's the worst news that deck ever got. I literally unsleeved it and won't put it back together until I can figure out a way to deal with that problem.
three parasites, two imps, and the datasuckers you should already be running.
Hard stop on any Lotus Field.
Rooks and Knights die immediately. Pawns are even worse. Imps help target the Lotus before it hits the table, but you better find it...
lotus field is brutal, yeah
so rude
anarchs are in a real tough spot against BS right now, quetzal is probably your best bet and even then you need a way to deal with lotuses
Any word on participation prizes? Wondering if I need to budget for anything later on. :P
I'm interested to know too.
Let me ask everyone 2 questions:
1) What do you think the promo will be for Worlds?
2) What do you think the winning IDs will be?
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Worlds promo is such a hard thing to guess because it could be a fairly large pool of cards. I'm not sure they want to repeat the agenda problem of PSF, but I could honestly see them do an alt-art Accelerated Beta Test. That's the most prolific agenda I can think of besides Astroscript, and I don't think they're stupid enough to make an alt-art Astroscript. Maybe something totally different, like alt-art Desperado?
Winning ID ... Are those the plastic ones? That's a toughie ...
Escher it out of the way, clearly. :P
But seriously, yeah, Blue Sun messes with so many things I really don't understand why they printed it. *shrug*
That's actually the best thing you can do.
...
At 5INF per.
Really, not even, since it's Blue Sun. They just pick up the Lotus Field and put it back where they wanted it. Means another server gets weakened, and costs a bit to install, but I am betting they can usually live with that.
+1
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
Worlds promo is such a hard thing to guess because it could be a fairly large pool of cards. I'm not sure they want to repeat the agenda problem of PSF, but I could honestly see them do an alt-art Accelerated Beta Test. That's the most prolific agenda I can think of besides Astroscript, and I don't think they're stupid enough to make an alt-art Astroscript. Maybe something totally different, like alt-art Desperado?
Winning ID ... Are those the plastic ones? That's a toughie ...
they won't be doing alt-art consoles any time soon
I'm not sure what will be at Worlds but I know more ice and icebreakers are coming down the pipe in the future, probably in the spring kit
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
Any word on participation prizes? Wondering if I need to budget for anything later on. :P
I'm interested to know too.
Let me ask everyone 2 questions:
1) What do you think the promo will be for Worlds?
2) What do you think the winning IDs will be?
winning IDs:
I'm not sure I could narrow it down more than either NEH or Blue Sun on the corp side. they're both really strong, but I think the inherent variance of the game favors NEH a bit more since it's only running 2 point agendas.
Runner side, things are way more diverse. the tried and true Andysucker deck that was dominant this time last year just isn't as strong as it used to be now that every faction has a solid way to deal with account siphon. Katman is still super powerful but Blue Sun is real troublesome for it since it can feasibly run ice up to strength 10. I think we're going to see an upset here. I'm going to go ahead and put my money on Quetzal. Anarchs are very in vogue right now since they have all the best tools to deal with NEH's bullshit in-faction, and Quetzal plus E3 deals with Blue Sun's bullshit pretty handily (though lotus field does need a solution).
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
I'd almost say Noise might have a better shot than Quetzal, but his reliance on Knight and Darwin/Crypsis is going to just fail against Blue Sun. Andy with Sneakdoor and Magnum Opus seems to be able to balance between the need for speed and HQ access with NBN and the tax of RP and BS, but the opportunity cost is having to run central breakers and no space/memory for Datasucker or Parasite. Quetzal still doesn't have the consistency needed to win (even with Duggars/Inject), and she can't just luck into a win like Noise sometimes can.
I've been running with Atman in my Noise/Quetzal decks for a good while now, and I honestly can't see myself looking back. Atman is just such a great card.
Would anyone be interested in a casual Octgn based Netrunner escalation league? Like starting with the core set and adding in one datapack/expansion per round in release order. Thinking a very casual and manageable schedule like one randomly assigned opponent for a scoring game a fortnight. The usual two games so you play both sides. 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw. People could drop in and out as they wish as missing a week or joining late would really be no big thing.
Would be a nice way to get newer players without a local scene to be able to slowly up their game if we can get enough people.
Just throw an agree or something to this post if you like the idea.
WHOA that agenda suite, man.... Alright, so what are you trying to do with this deck?
Edit: It kind of looks like your want to brain damage the runner to death which is hard to do. But you're also double-downing on expensive end-the-run ICE.
I've cleaned up the agendas a bit by now. Down to 10 cards in 4 types.
I think you're right about the ICE. It's too expensive and not particularly focused, but I'm not sure how to approach putting together a potent ICE suite for HB. It's all very porous after all.
Most ICE is more pourous than you might believe. HB just in a more obvious way.
You have two basic schools of ICE, taxing and hard end-the-run. HB is very good at is taxing ICE - thier ICE can cost the runner a lot of credits and clicks. You drain the runners credits to create a window for scoring. What you want to look for is cheap ICE that is going to impose a steep cost to the runner. Eli 1.0 is one of if not the best peice of ICE in the game cause it's only costs the corp three credits but costs the runner minimum four to get through every time.
So it comes down to what strategy are you planning? You need to have a planned path to victory before you start planning your ICE suite. Are you slow advancing fat agendas, fast advancing, or trying to murder the runner?
I guess slow advance with some brain damage to intimidate the runner, thus hopefully prolonging my scoring windows. Right now I put in lots of NEXT ICE to offset some of the bigger harder to rez ICE. I'll post the current iteration of the deck when I'm not on my phone.
Huh, I missed it, but it was mentioned in a recent Lukas interview that the one Anarch ID (Valencia) in O&C *does* actually start with a Bad Pub on the corp.
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COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Here it is... current iteration of Smack Dab. I'm still not 100% on what to go for when I would sit down to play, but I feel slightly better about the ICE and the combination of operations and upgrades might work, or fizzle out uselessly...
Would anyone be interested in a casual Octgn based Netrunner escalation league? Like starting with the core set and adding in one datapack/expansion per round in release order. Thinking a very casual and manageable schedule like one randomly assigned opponent for a scoring game a fortnight. The usual two games so you play both sides. 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw. People could drop in and out as they wish as missing a week or joining late would really be no big thing.
Would be a nice way to get newer players without a local scene to be able to slowly up their game.
This is a vote of interest.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Huh, I missed it, but it was mentioned in a recent Lukas interview that the one Anarch ID (Valencia) in O&C *does* actually start with a Bad Pub on the corp.
That seems nuts. So runners will be blackmail crazy. Corps will be Blue Sun with Elizabeth Mills...
Any PA'ers other than @TheMadjai and myself heading to Worlds? Would be good to meet up if there are. I know someone else said they were, but can't find the post.
Huh, I missed it, but it was mentioned in a recent Lukas interview that the one Anarch ID (Valencia) in O&C *does* actually start with a Bad Pub on the corp.
That seems nuts. So runners will be blackmail crazy. Corps will be Blue Sun with Elizabeth Mills...
Well, Bad Pub Anarch *is* supposed to be a thing that's coming. Will be interesting to see it in action. Funny to see a GRNDL versus Valencia game and the runner starts with two. :hydra:
Although if BP ever takes off, don't forget Witness Tampering exists. Double and 4 credits to remove two bad pub? Could be a decent splash at 1 Inf.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
Huh, I missed it, but it was mentioned in a recent Lukas interview that the one Anarch ID (Valencia) in O&C *does* actually start with a Bad Pub on the corp.
That seems nuts. So runners will be blackmail crazy. Corps will be Blue Sun with Elizabeth Mills...
we don't know what her minimum deck size and influence are yet
if she's like 55/10 I think she'll be pretty well-balanced
you'll have to dig for those blackmails, and planned assault will be a significant expenditure of influence
if she's 45/15 then fuck everything, guess we're never having remote servers ever again
oh but Blue Sun will still be great because they're all running Amazon or Toybox, and NEH doesn't give a shit about remotes either!
Like, the ID that draws card when you create a remote?
That ID?
I guess the point is NEH doesn't really care about protecting all of the infinity remotes they make, if they're going to win through astrobiotics etc. The remotes are just a bunch of economy assets with high trash costs.
Huh, I missed it, but it was mentioned in a recent Lukas interview that the one Anarch ID (Valencia) in O&C *does* actually start with a Bad Pub on the corp.
That seems nuts. So runners will be blackmail crazy. Corps will be Blue Sun with Elizabeth Mills...
we don't know what her minimum deck size and influence are yet
if she's like 55/10 I think she'll be pretty well-balanced
you'll have to dig for those blackmails, and planned assault will be a significant expenditure of influence
if she's 45/15 then fuck everything, guess we're never having remote servers ever again
oh but Blue Sun will still be great because they're all running Amazon or Toybox, and NEH doesn't give a shit about remotes either!
Considering Blackmail is neutral and most of the bad pub runner cards are anarch reducing the influence might not have much impact on a Valencia bad pub build. Greater deck size to reduce consistency would be a pretty cool idea though, but it seems to be something they've been hesitant to explore so far.
Making blackmail good enough to show in a meta would make traps better as well, which would be cool (and wasting a precious blackmail on a high-trash asset wouldn't be fun either).
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
Huh, I missed it, but it was mentioned in a recent Lukas interview that the one Anarch ID (Valencia) in O&C *does* actually start with a Bad Pub on the corp.
That seems nuts. So runners will be blackmail crazy. Corps will be Blue Sun with Elizabeth Mills...
we don't know what her minimum deck size and influence are yet
if she's like 55/10 I think she'll be pretty well-balanced
you'll have to dig for those blackmails, and planned assault will be a significant expenditure of influence
if she's 45/15 then fuck everything, guess we're never having remote servers ever again
oh but Blue Sun will still be great because they're all running Amazon or Toybox, and NEH doesn't give a shit about remotes either!
Considering Blackmail is neutral and most of the bad pub runner cards are anarch reducing the influence might not have much impact on a Valencia bad pub build. Greater deck size to reduce consistency would be a pretty cool idea though, but it seems to be something they've been hesitant to explore so far.
Making blackmail good enough to show in a meta would make traps better as well, which would be cool (and wasting a precious blackmail on a high-trash asset wouldn't be fun either).
yeah but the thing is, Anarchs really really need all 15 of that standard influence for decent economy and cards that increase consistency, so losing five of it would be a pretty big hit
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
While in the past I've been very against corps having to run "silver bullet" cards as their deckbuilding space is already quite limited by ICE and agendas, I think they have enough ridiculous toys now that it isn't really the case any more. Blackmail decks might be a good thing just because they force corps to spend some deck space running BP removal instead of stuff they actually want, the same way runners have to with Plascrete. But I'm not sure I like the idea that corps auto-lose to Blackmail if they don't bring BP removal, which is pretty much what happens currently for some decks.
I'm honestly thinking about cramming Witness Tampering in my deck somewhere, since I already generate a lot of BP myself. (Generally end the game with 4, sometimes more.) Wouldn't mind spending the credits and clicks just to make the runner's life harder.
I *am* curious about the bit in the interview where Because We Built It came up, and they wanted to push it and the advancement ICE theme of Weyland more.
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
edited November 2014
You know, here's a crazy thought. Unscheduled Maintenance is actually a decent card against Blue Sun. "Sure, pick up that ice that I just made you rez. You can only put one back. I hope you weren't planning on building those servers very much this turn, were you?"
Actually, following up on this, hand-size destruction combined with Leela Patel and Unscheduled Maintenance could be a thing come O&C. Pair it with Parasite, Emergency Shutdown, maybe even False Echo, maybe some Feints, and this could be a deck! Doesn't work against decks that don't bother icing (Cambridge PE, some NEH decks) but I think Blue Sun's ability to pick up could definitely get overtaxed.
tzeentchling on
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Also, if Valencia/Blackmail becomes a thing, I expect to see Edge of World actually make a comeback. Love the card but I can't ever figure out how to play it!
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I'm honestly thinking about cramming Witness Tampering in my deck somewhere, since I already generate a lot of BP myself. (Generally end the game with 4, sometimes more.) Wouldn't mind spending the credits and clicks just to make the runner's life harder.
I *am* curious about the bit in the interview where Because We Built It came up, and they wanted to push it and the advancement ICE theme of Weyland more.
there will should be at least one piece of advanceable ice in OC, probably a couple
whether it will be any good?
ehhhhhh
I mean at some point Lukas obviously thought tyrant and salvage would be good
Apparently there's going to be at least 4 advanceable ice in OC. There's one big one that seems to be three smaller ice all combined, with the 'reduce cost by X for each advancement counter on this ice' ability.
Today's dumb idea that I'm totally going to try anyway: Shinobi in Blue Sun. A way to turn a big credit advantage into a flatline threat that doesn't care about tags or Plascrete. Imagine getting a net damage flatline out of Weyland!
Going to be testing my Quatman deck tonight. Also, after ragging on stealth decks for being "cute", I reckon there might be something in a Replikit deck with Refractor (obviously), Lockpicks, the interfaces and Trade In to use that extra copy of Replicator you fished out as an interface tutor (which then replicates into the other copy). Could be nice for tempo, could be unworkable jank. We shall see.
I had a game with my Foundry deck against a guy running stealth Replikit. He was digging like made with procon, QTs etc and it still took him way too long to get setup. It seems like a fun deck, but way too inconsistent.
I've been running 3x proco in my Kate PPVP deck for a while now and I absolutely love it. The deck does need a support income card for when things dry out a little, and I'm not hugely fond of running too many diesel/QTs. Proco + QT is all I've ever needed for card draw, with SMCs/Test Runs to get out the programs depending on matchup and game state.
Remember when everyone lost their mind over Quetzal? She hasn't really had much affect on the meta, though.
I'm actually in the camp that things Valencia won't be too strong
but I'm also not very in favor of things that push the game further away from remotes and scoring windows
With executive boot camp, amazon industrial zone, and OAI already known maybe order and chaos will have a few more things to allow rezzing ice on the corps turn - which slows blackmail-centric strategies right down.
Ditto leela's ability, maybe they're interested in having the corp facing the risk/reward decision of safely rezzing ice on corp turn (with that opportunity cost) against possibilities of the runner shenaniganing it on their turn.
The spoiled reduced cost from advancement ice in theory turns BWBI ability into a rough Click: Gain 3 credits provided said ice is good enough for you to want to put 6+ of them into your deck, which is sort of okay?
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
edited November 2014
So this is supposedly going to be a real thing, and I'm not sure how I feel about that ...
Like, it's cool to give corp some deck space by having higher point agendas. Has a few good interactions, helps traps be more viable with slow-advance, and shifts agenda density. But it's just another way to make things extra swingy with bad R&D/HQ pulls.
Hrmmm ...
So this is supposedly going to be a real thing, and I'm not sure how I feel about that ...
Like, it's cool to give corp some deck space by having higher point agendas. Has a few good interactions, helps traps be more viable with slow-advance, and shifts agenda density. But it's just another way to make things extra swingy with bad R&D/HQ pulls.
Hrmmm ...
Yikes if true. I dislike how generic the ability is for such exceptional agenda ratios.
I was wondering if they were going to go big for Weyland agendas but thought they'd be 8/5's or 7/4's and have something to do with the Beanstalk.
My dream Weyland big agenda would be something that benefits the corp in some way when stolen to offset the swingyness of early game access.
Daedalus Interstellar Probe
7/4
When Interstellar Probe is stolen, remove up to 2 bad publicity
When Interstellar Probe is scored, remove up to 4 bad publicity
Posts
lotus field is brutal, yeah
so rude
anarchs are in a real tough spot against BS right now, quetzal is probably your best bet and even then you need a way to deal with lotuses
I'm interested to know too.
Let me ask everyone 2 questions:
1) What do you think the promo will be for Worlds?
2) What do you think the winning IDs will be?
Winning ID ... Are those the plastic ones? That's a toughie ...
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Really, not even, since it's Blue Sun. They just pick up the Lotus Field and put it back where they wanted it. Means another server gets weakened, and costs a bit to install, but I am betting they can usually live with that.
they won't be doing alt-art consoles any time soon
I'm not sure what will be at Worlds but I know more ice and icebreakers are coming down the pipe in the future, probably in the spring kit
winning IDs:
I'm not sure I could narrow it down more than either NEH or Blue Sun on the corp side. they're both really strong, but I think the inherent variance of the game favors NEH a bit more since it's only running 2 point agendas.
Runner side, things are way more diverse. the tried and true Andysucker deck that was dominant this time last year just isn't as strong as it used to be now that every faction has a solid way to deal with account siphon. Katman is still super powerful but Blue Sun is real troublesome for it since it can feasibly run ice up to strength 10. I think we're going to see an upset here. I'm going to go ahead and put my money on Quetzal. Anarchs are very in vogue right now since they have all the best tools to deal with NEH's bullshit in-faction, and Quetzal plus E3 deals with Blue Sun's bullshit pretty handily (though lotus field does need a solution).
Would anyone be interested in a casual Octgn based Netrunner escalation league? Like starting with the core set and adding in one datapack/expansion per round in release order. Thinking a very casual and manageable schedule like one randomly assigned opponent for a scoring game a fortnight. The usual two games so you play both sides. 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw. People could drop in and out as they wish as missing a week or joining late would really be no big thing.
Would be a nice way to get newer players without a local scene to be able to slowly up their game if we can get enough people.
Just throw an agree or something to this post if you like the idea.
I've cleaned up the agendas a bit by now. Down to 10 cards in 4 types.
I think you're right about the ICE. It's too expensive and not particularly focused, but I'm not sure how to approach putting together a potent ICE suite for HB. It's all very porous after all.
You have two basic schools of ICE, taxing and hard end-the-run. HB is very good at is taxing ICE - thier ICE can cost the runner a lot of credits and clicks. You drain the runners credits to create a window for scoring. What you want to look for is cheap ICE that is going to impose a steep cost to the runner. Eli 1.0 is one of if not the best peice of ICE in the game cause it's only costs the corp three credits but costs the runner minimum four to get through every time.
So it comes down to what strategy are you planning? You need to have a planned path to victory before you start planning your ICE suite. Are you slow advancing fat agendas, fast advancing, or trying to murder the runner?
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Cerebral Imaging: Infinite Frontiers
Agenda (10)
2 Chronos Project
2 Executive Retreat
3 NAPD Contract
3 Project Vitruvius
Asset (5)
2 Adonis Campaign
1 Aggressive Secretary
2 Cerebral Overwriter
Upgrade (3)
1 Heinlein Grid
2 Will-o'-the-Wisp
Operation (12)
3 Green Level Clearance
3 Hedge Fund
1 Oversight AI ••
2 Sunset ••
3 Targeted Marketing •••
Barrier (7)
1 Ashigaru •••
1 Bastion
1 Heimdall 1.0
3 NEXT Silver
1 Wraparound •
Code Gate (10)
2 Chum ••
1 Hourglass
3 IQ
3 NEXT Bronze
1 RSVP ••
Sentry (2)
1 Architect
1 Janus 1.0
Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/
This is a vote of interest.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
That seems nuts. So runners will be blackmail crazy. Corps will be Blue Sun with Elizabeth Mills...
Well, Bad Pub Anarch *is* supposed to be a thing that's coming. Will be interesting to see it in action. Funny to see a GRNDL versus Valencia game and the runner starts with two. :hydra:
Although if BP ever takes off, don't forget Witness Tampering exists. Double and 4 credits to remove two bad pub? Could be a decent splash at 1 Inf.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
we don't know what her minimum deck size and influence are yet
if she's like 55/10 I think she'll be pretty well-balanced
you'll have to dig for those blackmails, and planned assault will be a significant expenditure of influence
if she's 45/15 then fuck everything, guess we're never having remote servers ever again
oh but Blue Sun will still be great because they're all running Amazon or Toybox, and NEH doesn't give a shit about remotes either!
Like, the ID that draws card when you create a remote?
That ID?
I guess the point is NEH doesn't really care about protecting all of the infinity remotes they make, if they're going to win through astrobiotics etc. The remotes are just a bunch of economy assets with high trash costs.
Remember when everyone lost their mind over Quetzal? She hasn't really had much affect on the meta, though.
Considering Blackmail is neutral and most of the bad pub runner cards are anarch reducing the influence might not have much impact on a Valencia bad pub build. Greater deck size to reduce consistency would be a pretty cool idea though, but it seems to be something they've been hesitant to explore so far.
Making blackmail good enough to show in a meta would make traps better as well, which would be cool (and wasting a precious blackmail on a high-trash asset wouldn't be fun either).
yeah but the thing is, Anarchs really really need all 15 of that standard influence for decent economy and cards that increase consistency, so losing five of it would be a pretty big hit
I'm actually in the camp that things Valencia won't be too strong
but I'm also not very in favor of things that push the game further away from remotes and scoring windows
I *am* curious about the bit in the interview where Because We Built It came up, and they wanted to push it and the advancement ICE theme of Weyland more.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Actually, following up on this, hand-size destruction combined with Leela Patel and Unscheduled Maintenance could be a thing come O&C. Pair it with Parasite, Emergency Shutdown, maybe even False Echo, maybe some Feints, and this could be a deck! Doesn't work against decks that don't bother icing (Cambridge PE, some NEH decks) but I think Blue Sun's ability to pick up could definitely get overtaxed.
there will should be at least one piece of advanceable ice in OC, probably a couple
whether it will be any good?
ehhhhhh
I mean at some point Lukas obviously thought tyrant and salvage would be good
Going to be testing my Quatman deck tonight. Also, after ragging on stealth decks for being "cute", I reckon there might be something in a Replikit deck with Refractor (obviously), Lockpicks, the interfaces and Trade In to use that extra copy of Replicator you fished out as an interface tutor (which then replicates into the other copy). Could be nice for tempo, could be unworkable jank. We shall see.
I've kept everything really cheap to keep things lean, but we'll see how it works out. I'm sceptical of the speed too.
With executive boot camp, amazon industrial zone, and OAI already known maybe order and chaos will have a few more things to allow rezzing ice on the corps turn - which slows blackmail-centric strategies right down.
Ditto leela's ability, maybe they're interested in having the corp facing the risk/reward decision of safely rezzing ice on corp turn (with that opportunity cost) against possibilities of the runner shenaniganing it on their turn.
The spoiled reduced cost from advancement ice in theory turns BWBI ability into a rough Click: Gain 3 credits provided said ice is good enough for you to want to put 6+ of them into your deck, which is sort of okay?
Like, it's cool to give corp some deck space by having higher point agendas. Has a few good interactions, helps traps be more viable with slow-advance, and shifts agenda density. But it's just another way to make things extra swingy with bad R&D/HQ pulls.
Hrmmm ...
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Yikes if true. I dislike how generic the ability is for such exceptional agenda ratios.
I was wondering if they were going to go big for Weyland agendas but thought they'd be 8/5's or 7/4's and have something to do with the Beanstalk.
My dream Weyland big agenda would be something that benefits the corp in some way when stolen to offset the swingyness of early game access.
Daedalus Interstellar Probe
7/4
When Interstellar Probe is stolen, remove up to 2 bad publicity
When Interstellar Probe is scored, remove up to 4 bad publicity