The problem I see with the FF in terms of making them relevant (until Hickman) has always been they suffer the most out of creator changes. It happens all the time on stuff when a new person comes onboard, things move back to a starting point, but with the 4 it resets hard all the time. Just from Heroes Return on, Lobdell lead to Claremont easily enough, Pacheco and Loeb paid a little lip service to it, Waid started over twice basically because there was the Marvel Knights stuff, JMS, Millar and Hitch...
I think what really is the problem is because of the starting point, you have to establish them at their core, which is the four +2 now, before you do something else, whereas with Avengers and X-Men you can simply switch out the characters at the drop of a hat every creative shuffle.
This definitely rings true for me. Of all the superhero teams and ensembles, this one is more or less fixed. Some occasional subs but your starting lineup really doesn't change because then it's not REALLY the F4 anymore.
And because of Reed's broader stories across 616 and beyond, he inevitably gets sucked into crossover events and the F4 dynamic is really compromised because of that. Like the build up to Civil War was basically Reed Reed Reed and Reed, which interestingly is why Hickman came on board to restore some semblance of a family story.
Although I agree that a lot of FF runs focus too much on Reed, I gotta say, the runs that put Reed on the backburner tend to be the worst.
The DeFalco and Englehart runs are just... ugh. So bad. So very bad.
The problem I see with the FF in terms of making them relevant (until Hickman) has always been they suffer the most out of creator changes. It happens all the time on stuff when a new person comes onboard, things move back to a starting point, but with the 4 it resets hard all the time. Just from Heroes Return on, Lobdell lead to Claremont easily enough, Pacheco and Loeb paid a little lip service to it, Waid started over twice basically because there was the Marvel Knights stuff, JMS, Millar and Hitch...
I think what really is the problem is because of the starting point, you have to establish them at their core, which is the four +2 now, before you do something else, whereas with Avengers and X-Men you can simply switch out the characters at the drop of a hat every creative shuffle.
This definitely rings true for me. Of all the superhero teams and ensembles, this one is more or less fixed. Some occasional subs but your starting lineup really doesn't change because then it's not REALLY the F4 anymore.
And because of Reed's broader stories across 616 and beyond, he inevitably gets sucked into crossover events and the F4 dynamic is really compromised because of that. Like the build up to Civil War was basically Reed Reed Reed and Reed, which interestingly is why Hickman came on board to restore some semblance of a family story.
And Reed gets Flanderized a lot in those stories, too.
0
Options
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
I feel like the Illuminati, while interesting, really did hurt a lot of the characters in the end.
The problem I see with the FF in terms of making them relevant (until Hickman) has always been they suffer the most out of creator changes. It happens all the time on stuff when a new person comes onboard, things move back to a starting point, but with the 4 it resets hard all the time. Just from Heroes Return on, Lobdell lead to Claremont easily enough, Pacheco and Loeb paid a little lip service to it, Waid started over twice basically because there was the Marvel Knights stuff, JMS, Millar and Hitch...
I think what really is the problem is because of the starting point, you have to establish them at their core, which is the four +2 now, before you do something else, whereas with Avengers and X-Men you can simply switch out the characters at the drop of a hat every creative shuffle.
This definitely rings true for me. Of all the superhero teams and ensembles, this one is more or less fixed. Some occasional subs but your starting lineup really doesn't change because then it's not REALLY the F4 anymore.
And because of Reed's broader stories across 616 and beyond, he inevitably gets sucked into crossover events and the F4 dynamic is really compromised because of that. Like the build up to Civil War was basically Reed Reed Reed and Reed, which interestingly is why Hickman came on board to restore some semblance of a family story.
And Reed gets Flanderized a lot in those stories, too.
Reed Flanders. Mr. Fan-diddly-tastic.
+2
Options
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
is it weirding anyone else out that Johnny is dating Medusa when he used to date Crystal
I feel like that's totally a COMIC BOOKS sort of thing, but eh
Posts
Although I agree that a lot of FF runs focus too much on Reed, I gotta say, the runs that put Reed on the backburner tend to be the worst.
The DeFalco and Englehart runs are just... ugh. So bad. So very bad.
Why I fear the ocean.
And Reed gets Flanderized a lot in those stories, too.
Reed Flanders. Mr. Fan-diddly-tastic.
I feel like that's totally a COMIC BOOKS sort of thing, but eh
And Crystal is supposed to be coming back, sooo....
Honestly, I'm pretty sure this is nowhere near the first time Johnny's dated a woman after dating her sister.
Why I fear the ocean.
And if it is... ALL NEW! ALL DIFFERENT!
Hickman's Illuminati, and some of Bendis' too, were fine
Civil War and to a lesser extent WWH were the culprit there