Which was the first point? I didn't really see one just him complaining about docking taking awhile.
He wasn't complaining that docking, in general, taking too long. He WAS complaining that his ship would not dock at the station, even though he was close enough and inputted the proper command. Therefore, it was a game bug, and not the skill of some other player, that caused him to lose the carrier.
This is a legitimate complaint, and I can understand why the untimeliness by CCP in fixing the problem has pissed him off so much.
In other words, there are parts of the game which are broken, as in, not working as intended, and those parts screwed him over. And I laugh to myself when a common response is, "NUH UH! IT NOT BROKEN! YOU RETRADED! GTFO!" instead of, "You know, you're right, that is a bug. That really sucks. I hope CCP fixes it for you and you can get back into playing."
That is the problem with "GTFO" elitists: eventually, they alienate so many people, that in the end they just wind up playing with themselves.
I would just like to point out that you can be 0km off the station and it still won't tow you into dock until you get to another part of the station. Happened to me last night while I was dicking around with Q. 0km off and it had me go to a different spot 0km off before it towed me in. Now that took abit with a BC which is fairly slow. It would take alot longer with a carrier that probally goes 50 m/s at the most. So it is possible he was just slowboating very slowly towards the dock point.
Yeah, but for three minutes? That's a little extreme.
Dude did you ever fly a capital ship? They move slow as all hell. Which is generally why you only warp to shit cause if you have to slow boat its gonna take you alot of time where you are basically just sitting there with a kill me sign on your back.
For further reference it once took a vigil (fastest normal frigate) a full minute to dock. So no I don't think its that extreme. And its even more likely if he warped his carrier in on top of the other one and bumped it off.
EDIT: Look it sucks that he lost pretty much everything he had. But if he is flying carriers at that point he should know better then to warp both carriers in at once. Especially since if he bumped one it was a sitting duck.
The guy doesn't sound like a nublet; he does have (had) TWO carriers after all.
Also, one docked just fine, whereas the other didn't, and based on his post, it doesn't sound like one of his carriers was bumped out of position.
Finally, why did the frigate (edit: per your example) take a minute to dock? Was it an intended feature of the station docking system? Or was it some sort of server issue? If the latter, then the OP has a legitimate complaint.
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
The guy doesn't sound like a nublet; he does have (had) TWO carriers after all.
Also, one docked just fine, whereas the other didn't, and based on his post, it doesn't sound like one of his carriers was bumped out of position.
Just cause you played long enough to get a carrier doesn't mean you are a competent pilot.
Aside from that maybe he just didn't notice he bumped it off abit. Or maybe it warped in further away from the dock point then the other. The fact is he never said it said he was actually being towed in from his post it just looks like it was taking him abit to dock and he got bumped and lost it. (which is lame but you have to work with what ya got).
EDIT: It took abit cause I had moved away from the actual dock point. As pointed out earlier in the thread there is a docking area where you have to move towards it in order to actually dock. As far as I can tell its an intended feature.
The guy doesn't sound like a nublet; he does have (had) TWO carriers after all.
Also, one docked just fine, whereas the other didn't, and based on his post, it doesn't sound like one of his carriers was bumped out of position.
Finally, why did the frigate (edit: per your example) take a minute to dock? Was it an intended feature of the station docking system? Or was it some sort of server issue? If the latter, then the OP has a legitimate complaint.
He may not sound like a noob, but he does sound like somebody that doesn't know how to use a carrier. By his own admission, he jumped two unescorted carriers into a system known to contain reds. That is the height of foolishness.
The docking thing is an issue, but it's a known issue. Nobody who has played for more than a week should be surprised by it. If at first you don't dock, just keep spamming the dock button until you do.
The docking thing is an issue, but it's a known issue.
So? That somehow lets CCP off the hook?
Losing a carrier to crafty pirates? It sucks, but it is part of the game.
Losing a carrier to an issue? How is that fair? How is that fun? How is it supposed to make a player feel when CCP, for all intents and purposes, ignores them?
Apparently, they are supposed to feel privileged they had the chance to lose so much investment to a system bug. Because EVE is perfect, and if you don't like it, you can git out.
delroland on
EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
The key point is 'known issue'. Certain stations have shitty dock points and if you're cynoing carriers around you fucking learn which stations these are or you WILL lose your carrier. This sounds like someone assuming that you can just jump your carrier around with gay abandon and dock with ease. Not true, always assume that someone is about to fuck you in the ass, I assume this at all times and the best assfuckers are on MY side, thats how paranoid you have to be.
Also, I own a carrier. That alone is enough to prove the 'owning a carrier does not make you good at Eve' comment.
The docking thing is an issue, but it's a known issue.
So? That somehow lets CCP off the hook?
Losing a carrier to crafty pirates? It sucks, but it is part of the game.
Losing a carrier to an issue? How is that fair? How is that fun? How is it supposed to make a player feel when CCP, for all intents and purposes, ignores them?
Apparently, they are supposed to feel privileged they had the chance to lose so much investment to a system bug. Because EVE is perfect, and if you don't like it, you can git out.
Yes, it does let CCP off the hook. At some point you have to realize that EVE cannot be a perfect simulation of a real world. At some point you have to start learning how the game deviates from expected reality and deal with it. All games have aspects that are not planned by the designers, and may in fact be considered bugs, but are never the less part of the game to be learned. EVE is particularly rife with this - examples include jetcan mining, bumping to stop warp alignment, webbing freighters to hasten warp, and the MWD pulse/cloak combo. Even the OP was using one of these "bugs", which is the ability of a carrier to be used as a jump-capable freighter rather than as a logistics/combat support ship.
It's like being on the EvE-O forums all over again. Man I'm glad I stopped playing this game ages ago, full of even more jerks then WoW and getting bugger and more unstable all the time.
It's like being on the EvE-O forums all over again. Man I'm glad I stopped playing this game ages ago, full of even more jerks then WoW and getting bugger and more unstable all the time.
mlyp
claxton on
Its not enough to win. You want nothing left of your enemy but a skull nailed to a fence post so everybody understands the cost of crossing you. -Durga
I'm not actually sure the delroland stuff is worth responding to since it's so impossibly pretentious, but I'll give it a read later and see if there's anything worth responding to.
The skill system is bad and un-rewarding to people who actually play the game.
The skill system is one of EVE's really interesting features. A previous poster said it best: it comes off as intimidating. Especially as a newbie it feels like it takes so long to get into anything big and/or shiny.
The trick is, the skill system is put in an new light the second, the very instant, a player has to take a break from the game, either by choice or by circumstance in real life. When that happens, in a snap the skill system becomes the single best feature of the game. It allows you to take a month or two break from the game and still come back to a character who has advanced somewhat.
Compare it to, say, the endgame in WoW. If you take a month or two break there for whatever reason... well, I hope either your guild is extremely understanding and willing to help you gear up, or you don't mind shopping around for a new guild now that all your friends have advanced past you. In EVE, if you need to take a long break, you'll come back to find you can fly Interceptors or Heavy Assault Cruisers or something. EVE may not always reward constant play with immediate shinies (I'll get to that in a second anyway), but games with the WoW model demand constant, unending play or you will fall behind. Never mind real life, I like taking breaks for other games, so I know damn well which model I prefer.
(As an aside, for all the beef people give EVE about being "cut-throat" I encountered far more ruthless people in my time in WoW than I ever have in EVE. In EVE at least you know the guy next to you is going to stick a blaster in your face and take away your life, ISK and freedoms. Passive-agressive politicking and backstabbing is the order of the day when it comes to WoW. In EVE if someone backstabs you you can at least spread his ions across a solar system.)
As for ISK...
It's one big, stupid cycle. I'm not suggesting flying a BS or using a Skiff the day you roll a new character, but I've been playing with an active acount for over 6 months and still cannot properly setup an extremely effective NPC ship nor have the contacts to do good missions or get good rewards (yay no social skills, in multiple ways).
OK, this... frankly sounds like your own fault. As said, with the new starting skills a newbie can be in a good ratting ship in under a month if they know what skills to train (and we have a wiki for that.) Hell a Gallente soldier noob can be in a ratting Domi in... a week? A week and a half? Pretty similar situation for soldier noobs of other races (although Amarr have hellacious times with Angels.) If you have been playing for six months straight and you cannot fit a ship that can take on battleship rats then you are probably doing something wrong and you are welcome to ask for help.
And making ISK or getting resources in EVE is not difficult, especially if you make the move out into 0.0. I can earn 50 million ISK or more in a good day in Merch's current home system. Alternately getting the minerals together to build those nice fancy ships becomes far less difficult out here.
Although if you're an active PA poster, why on earth aren't you in MRCHI? Simple belt ratting in 0.0 is more profitable than mission running will ever be.
Every time I quit EVE it's because I can't justify paying to wait around doing nothing. Every time I rejoin it's after a major expansion just to play around with the new features, become annoyed at the complete lack of a 'win condition', PvP, and the skill system, and quit again.
EVE is a game where you must set your own win condition. Currently Merch has, with the rest of Goonswarm, set our win condition to the taking of all of BoB's stations throughout the galactic south, with a secondary condition of getting a station (or three) of our own. My own win condition at the moment is to get my old character back, get into Gallente capitals and use them to tear down BoB's empire of lies and hypocrisy. EVE has to be what you make of it - the game will not give you any set victory conditions, and that's half the beauty of the game. A game like WoW uses victory conditions to force you to play a certain way - EVE makes you define those conditions for yourself.
And if you're in a good 0.0 alliance, waiting to do anything should be minimal.
Oh EVE, how I want to love you... It's unfortunate you cater to rich kids in Iceland who sell GTCs and allow your developers and employees to corrupt the economy.
GTC sales really aren't a problem. The ISK is earned in-game anyway, and the time codes go back to CCP so it isn't like third party sales where CCP sees no benefit. Hell GTCing allow a lot of people who couldn't otherwise play, play. I know I'll be picking up a 30-day here fairly soon to cover a maxed-out credit card for a month.
The developer stuff... well. Only so much defense can be given to it, but CCP have acknowledged the problem and are doing things to stop it. The guys at CCP live and eat because of EVE, they aren't going to let it go down the drain because a few guys got stupid about wanting to help their e-friends. And honestly I also have to wonder how much dev corruption occurs in other games that you never hear about, because in a non-competitive game it isn't nearly so obvious...
It's like being on the EvE-O forums all over again. Man I'm glad I stopped playing this game ages ago, full of even more jerks then WoW and getting bugger and more unstable all the time.
Hey now. As I said above, there's a lot I could criticize about EVE but the WoW playerbase is infinitely worse still. So much passive-aggressive BS...
I'm quite upfront with the fact that I can/will lie/cheat/steal and/or kill you on site if I got the chance, if you're not in my alliance or corp.
It's not for everyone, but I can't stand the constant grind where you have to play unendingly for days just to "catch up" to everyone else. Atleast this game works around my schedule, and I can get up and leave whenever without falling behind or feel like oh shit I gotta go grind up a 5 more mobs to hit 59.
In an alternate universe somewhere there's a guy telling people how they should totally play eve because the other week he and his buddies ganked an unescorted carrier and looted a few billion isk worth of loot.
And more people would listen to him because he's less wordy and is promising riches beyond the readers wildest imaginations.
I'm half expecting it to turn out PL or Goons killed it.
EDIT: No seriously, isn't there that PL guy with the faction-fit Machariel that does exactly this type of thing?
Yea, it goes 20km/s and is used for bumping things off POS's/stations.
hello! that would be me
edit: and now about 4 more of us as well, but im the original
Oh, I'm not claiming that there is lack of foresight whatsoever on my part, I play the game to PvP with friends and skilled up my character specifically for that purpose.
I can fit up a full tech 2 HAC (complete with t2 drones) if I feel so inclined to but not being able to fly Min ship sucks in PvP and not being able to fly Caldari sucks in missions/complexes.
I fly Gallente, that was my first mistake. Coupled with living in 0.0, lacking industrial skills (I can actually fly a mining barge right when I re-activate), and being war-deck'd at all times really prevents me from enjoying EVE unless I quit my corp and pretty much lose the ability to PvP where they fly (they're blue to Tri right now fighting YouWhat and are getting a station out of the deal when they finally kick the BoB pets out).
Either way, it results in 7 months of 'mistakes' which makes is time I'll never get back and people will have the opportunity to gain more skills than me if I were to restart (which I have once before, I originally played Amarr).
That being said, I think I'm done with EVE for quite some time... I just thing that the OP has the wrong intentions when it comes to quitting. "Because I lost my petitionable stuff" is a poor reason. If you still enjoy the game, the people you fly with, and everything EVE has to offer you for entertainment, it's a great game.
Oh, I'm not claiming that there is lack of foresight whatsoever on my part, I play the game to PvP with friends and skilled up my character specifically for that purpose.
I can fit up a full tech 2 HAC (complete with t2 drones) if I feel so inclined to but not being able to fly Min ship sucks in PvP and not being able to fly Caldari sucks in missions/complexes.
I fly Gallente, that was my first mistake. Coupled with living in 0.0, lacking industrial skills (I can actually fly a mining barge right when I re-activate), and being war-deck'd at all times really prevents me from enjoying EVE unless I quit my corp and pretty much lose the ability to PvP where they fly (they're blue to Tri right now fighting YouWhat and are getting a station out of the deal when they finally kick the BoB pets out).
Either way, it results in 7 months of 'mistakes' which makes is time I'll never get back and people will have the opportunity to gain more skills than me if I were to restart (which I have once before, I originally played Amarr).
That being said, I think I'm done with EVE for quite some time... I just thing that the OP has the wrong intentions when it comes to quitting. "Because I lost my petitionable stuff" is a poor reason. If you still enjoy the game, the people you fly with, and everything EVE has to offer you for entertainment, it's a great game.
spend a month in venal in a galente hac in belts and you will never have to make isk again, spend a month pvping in any galente ship with blasters and you will never want to change race.
Losing my stuff to a bug would piss me off but that doesn't seem like a good reason to quit(unless there was no chance of getting it back).
I quit playing EvE because I got bored. I knew going in it prolly wouldn't hook me though but I wanted to try it. It's a decent enough game but after awhile I was just logging in to start another skill training. The game didn't feel quite finished to me. The PvE stuff felt tacked on and I didn't know anyone really in game so I didn't want to try the PvP stuff solo. I was always trying to get a bigger ship thinking ok, once I do the fun will start. I stopped having fun so I said hasta....if I ever do come back though Battleship training 5/5 will be done.
spend a month in venal in a galente hac in belts and you will never have to make isk again, spend a month pvping in any galente ship with blasters and you will never want to change race.
I fly a Taranis almost exclusively in PvP with fairly decent gunnery skills. Beyond the Thorax and Taranis though, Galente ships just don't cut it for PvP in every class until Command Ships (Arazus also aren't bad and will be better than Curses soon). Other races simply provide better options.
I hear they're re-doing the drone interface (as well as adding bandwidth) so I will probably re-sub for when this happens. Until then I find my selection of race and ships frustrating.
I fly a Taranis almost exclusively in PvP with fairly decent gunnery skills. Beyond the Thorax and Taranis though, Galente ships just don't cut it for PvP in every class until Command Ships (Arazus also aren't bad and will be better than Curses soon). Other races simply provide better options.
You know what I said about me not knowing much about Eve? I can still say I know more than you, as if you think an Arazu is merely 'not bad' and dismiss the Ishtar and the FUCKING DEIMOS as not good enough in PvP then you're pretty dumb.
I fly gallente exclusively. I also have skills to fly a fully t2 fit hac. I also have essentially ZERO in the way of industrial skills (50k sp I believe).
Cruisers: Thorax and celestis. Blaster rape or one of the cheapest and effective ewar cruisers. If you're gallente and want in on fleet fights, but can't fly a bs, the celestis is your best bet.
Interceptors: The ranis is a pig. Decent dps but also relatively slow. On the other hand, the ares is the second cheapest inty in the game, and also one of the fastest. MWD + Point and you're still a valuable asset in any gang.
Dictors: Eris is also one of the cheaper dictors, and while not the best, you can do amazing things if you're competent. Cheap = win is what I'm getting at here, as if you're flying these things in fleet/pos warfare, you have to take in the economics of getting blown apart, regardless of your uber skillz. And with the heavy dictors, the phobos is still essentially a deimos with resists that can also act as a bubble. Regardless of how the amarr or whichever dictor that looks like the best choice, this would still be a valuable asset in a fleet/gang.
Battlecruisers: THERE IS A REASON THE MYRM IS GETTING A NERF.
Blaster Brutix isn't bad for dps if you've got a small gang with you as well. I was top damage on most fights I went on with Black Lance, and these were gangs with blaster megas and other rape machines that theory crafting would say should have been outclassing me.
Recons: Atleast you mention that Arazus 'aren't bad', while I would say there's a huge reason you seem to be missing here that it's insanely popular due to its bonus, coupled with the other recons, can web/scram and lockdown a hostile ship while never getting within range.
Capitals: One of the favoured carriers in the fleet, the Thanatos compares decently with others, even if yours got owned and you're not overly impressed with it. And while the gallente titan may not be the best choice, the Nyx is still one one of the most widely used and popular motherships.
And if you're strapped for cash, your account has 3 character slots. It doesn't take much to give a new character an isk transfer and do highsec arbitrage which requires nearly 0 effort. Even older players I notice, pigeonhole themselves into the mentality that they NEED a capitol ship or a fleet mega with t2 rails. Which is wrong. You can do perfectly fine isk-wise in a domi with bs3 or 4 and decent support skills. And if you want t2 shinies, all you have to do is go for medium spec in rails and blasters, and you've just opened up several ships which are highly effective pwn mobiles.
If you don't like gallente, why don't you trade your character with someone else from another race with comparable skills? I argue that matari and gallente pilots are some of the most effective pilots with the range of ships open to them and the roles they can switch around in.
tl;dr
Gallente 4 lyfe, not 4 a day
I fly a Taranis almost exclusively in PvP with fairly decent gunnery skills. Beyond the Thorax and Taranis though, Galente ships just don't cut it for PvP in every class until Command Ships (Arazus also aren't bad and will be better than Curses soon). Other races simply provide better options.
You know what I said about me not knowing much about Eve? I can still say I know more than you, as if you think an Arazu is merely 'not bad' and dismiss the Ishtar and the FUCKING DEIMOS as not good enough in PvP then you're pretty dumb.
Yeah seriously. Ishtar is a rape machine, and deimos was buffed recently and is a monster nowadays. Arazu is amazing as fuck, lachesis DOESNT SUCK, even with split weapons, oneiros is hilarious with armor repping and remote tracking boost/sensor boost. Anything else?
- fly a 100+ million ISK ship (even when you do about 10% less damage in a T1 variant and will die either way if I'm focused)
- fly a piece of shit budget T2 ships just because it's T2, can be done in a Rifter, and other vastly superior options can be trained in about 12 days.
- train for a carrier
These are some brilliant counter-arguments. I am completely wrong.
Note: all of your 'counter-points' are impractical except the Celestis suggestion, all recons are good regardless of faction (Caldari are less good because of ECM nerf), and all Roden Shityard ships will always be underpowered because you can't fit the modules to push damage as more than 1 weapon system and can't fit enough of 1 weapon system to match other variants.
- fly a 100+ million ISK ship (even when you do about 10% less damage in a T1 variant and will die either way if I'm focused)
- fly a piece of shit budget T2 ships just because it's T2, can be done in a Rifter, and other vastly superior options can be trained in about 12 days.
- train for a carrier
These are some brilliant counter-arguments. I am completely wrong.
Note: all of your 'counter-points' are impractical except the Celestis suggestion, all recons are good regardless of faction (Caldari are less good because of ECM nerf), and all Roden Shityard ships will always be underpowered because you can't fit the modules to push damage as more than 1 weapon system and can't fit enough of 1 weapon system to match other variants.
I'm over it.
Sup hacs are sub 100m. Not my fault you're whining about t2 prices. If you want something stupid cheap and rape, a fucking brutix, myrmidon, dominix, or megathron. You're complaining for the sake of complaining.
Man, I dislike direct flaming, but you're so wholly clueless and aggressively ignorant that I'm not sure there's hope for you.
I mean, you understand the difference between an Ishtar and a Vexor, right? Or the difference between a Rifter and an Interceptor?
There are reasons people fly these ships. If you refuse to believe that something may be worthwhile to use and then complain about not doing well in PvP and PvE, well...
- fly a 100+ million ISK ship (even when you do about 10% less damage in a T1 variant and will die either way if I'm focused)
- fly a piece of shit budget T2 ships just because it's T2, can be done in a Rifter, and other vastly superior options can be trained in about 12 days.
- train for a carrier
These are some brilliant counter-arguments. I am completely wrong.
Note: all of your 'counter-points' are impractical except the Celestis suggestion, all recons are good regardless of faction (Caldari are less good because of ECM nerf), and all Roden Shityard ships will always be underpowered because you can't fit the modules to push damage as more than 1 weapon system and can't fit enough of 1 weapon system to match other variants.
I'm over it.
For being a supposed veteran and carrier pilot, your basic lack of understanding for what role each ship plays, and how it basically functions is starting to show through. What you're saying reads as if you've never flown these, and if you have, you certainly haven't used them effectively or with realising what you're supposed to use them for.
And even saying that my previous post is espousing flying 100mil+ ships, or only a carrier, is entirely, and I cannot stress this enough, missing the entire point of the entire post. As such, I'm not going to bother attempting to explain further.
No, you clicked "Post Reply", and then your typeslexsia kicked in, producing an unintelligible string of ASCII characters that, miraculously, like a room of monkeys on typewriters, just happened to spell words.
Your post showed no understanding of the first point the OP made, but rather was an example of someone who wanted to go, "OMG I KAN TIPE WURDS!!", which is almost true. You just got a couple of first letters mixed up.
also guys like you mr. carrier pilot are why i play this game- to ruin 3-4 years of 'work' you've put into a game that you completely suck at , and I enjoy seeing your assets ruined
Btw griefing people in carriers out of the game is nothing new for us (Ticalos is me btw):
Herman Galo > whee. a quick jump on there....
big5824 > nice job with all the carrier ganking pandemic Maikar > guys no please
Maikar > i just got this today x.x
Maikar > this is my LIFE in eve
big5824 > are u loosing a cap?
big5824 > i wana laugh
Elwoood Blues > wts thanatos, convo me
big5824 > another bites the dust *bom bom*
Maikar > yeah i bet you're real proud
Maikar > i didn't even have it fit Maikar > in fact that was 30 seconds after i GOT INTO IT
Maximus Desimus > ur mistake
Fitzwilli > lol
Maikar > not my mistake
Blafbeest > I am proud
Maikar > i was moving it to the other station
sakana > \o/
Maikar > that's where my fitting are
Maximus Desimus > lol
Blafbeest > why didnt you say?
Maikar > -.-
Maximus Desimus > should have brought ur fittings to the ship not ship to the fittings
Fitzwilli > ^^
Ticalos > i admit i've undocked unfitted carriers before
Ticalos > then again, there was noone in local Maikar > i dun care
Maikar > i'm done
Maikar > bye
Fitzwilli > lol
Fitzwilli > o/
Maximus Desimus > see ya
Ticalos > can i have your thanatos fittings?
Ticalos > seeing as y'know
Ticalos > no great use for them
Btw griefing people in carriers out of the game is nothing new for us (Ticalos is me btw):
Herman Galo > whee. a quick jump on there....
big5824 > nice job with all the carrier ganking pandemic Maikar > guys no please
Maikar > i just got this today x.x
Maikar > this is my LIFE in eve
big5824 > are u loosing a cap?
big5824 > i wana laugh
Elwoood Blues > wts thanatos, convo me
big5824 > another bites the dust *bom bom*
Maikar > yeah i bet you're real proud
Maikar > i didn't even have it fit Maikar > in fact that was 30 seconds after i GOT INTO IT
Maximus Desimus > ur mistake
Fitzwilli > lol
Maikar > not my mistake
Blafbeest > I am proud
Maikar > i was moving it to the other station
sakana > \o/
Maikar > that's where my fitting are
Maximus Desimus > lol
Blafbeest > why didnt you say?
Maikar > -.-
Maximus Desimus > should have brought ur fittings to the ship not ship to the fittings
Fitzwilli > ^^
Ticalos > i admit i've undocked unfitted carriers before
Ticalos > then again, there was noone in local Maikar > i dun care
Maikar > i'm done
Maikar > bye
Fitzwilli > lol
Fitzwilli > o/
Maximus Desimus > see ya
Ticalos > can i have your thanatos fittings?
Ticalos > seeing as y'know
Ticalos > no great use for them
See, while I find this hilarious I am also positively terrified that it'll happen to me when I can finally undock my carrier...then again I have a second account getting ready to pop cynos etc so I suppose I'm prepared.
Posts
Carriers in Sagain are pinatas to PL, all undocking two carriers at once does is make us go 'holy shit TWO kills!'...
Did they drop anything good?
I would just like to point out that you can be 0km off the station and it still won't tow you into dock until you get to another part of the station. Happened to me last night while I was dicking around with Q. 0km off and it had me go to a different spot 0km off before it towed me in. Now that took abit with a BC which is fairly slow. It would take alot longer with a carrier that probally goes 50 m/s at the most. So it is possible he was just slowboating very slowly towards the dock point.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
knowing that snigg made someone leave the game makes me love them all the much more.
Dude did you ever fly a capital ship? They move slow as all hell. Which is generally why you only warp to shit cause if you have to slow boat its gonna take you alot of time where you are basically just sitting there with a kill me sign on your back.
For further reference it once took a vigil (fastest normal frigate) a full minute to dock. So no I don't think its that extreme. And its even more likely if he warped his carrier in on top of the other one and bumped it off.
EDIT: Look it sucks that he lost pretty much everything he had. But if he is flying carriers at that point he should know better then to warp both carriers in at once. Especially since if he bumped one it was a sitting duck.
Also, one docked just fine, whereas the other didn't, and based on his post, it doesn't sound like one of his carriers was bumped out of position.
Finally, why did the frigate (edit: per your example) take a minute to dock? Was it an intended feature of the station docking system? Or was it some sort of server issue? If the latter, then the OP has a legitimate complaint.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Just cause you played long enough to get a carrier doesn't mean you are a competent pilot.
Aside from that maybe he just didn't notice he bumped it off abit. Or maybe it warped in further away from the dock point then the other. The fact is he never said it said he was actually being towed in from his post it just looks like it was taking him abit to dock and he got bumped and lost it. (which is lame but you have to work with what ya got).
EDIT: It took abit cause I had moved away from the actual dock point. As pointed out earlier in the thread there is a docking area where you have to move towards it in order to actually dock. As far as I can tell its an intended feature.
He may not sound like a noob, but he does sound like somebody that doesn't know how to use a carrier. By his own admission, he jumped two unescorted carriers into a system known to contain reds. That is the height of foolishness.
The docking thing is an issue, but it's a known issue. Nobody who has played for more than a week should be surprised by it. If at first you don't dock, just keep spamming the dock button until you do.
exception: it was posted here, not on eveo
So? That somehow lets CCP off the hook?
Losing a carrier to crafty pirates? It sucks, but it is part of the game.
Losing a carrier to an issue? How is that fair? How is that fun? How is it supposed to make a player feel when CCP, for all intents and purposes, ignores them?
Apparently, they are supposed to feel privileged they had the chance to lose so much investment to a system bug. Because EVE is perfect, and if you don't like it, you can git out.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Also, I own a carrier. That alone is enough to prove the 'owning a carrier does not make you good at Eve' comment.
Yes, it does let CCP off the hook. At some point you have to realize that EVE cannot be a perfect simulation of a real world. At some point you have to start learning how the game deviates from expected reality and deal with it. All games have aspects that are not planned by the designers, and may in fact be considered bugs, but are never the less part of the game to be learned. EVE is particularly rife with this - examples include jetcan mining, bumping to stop warp alignment, webbing freighters to hasten warp, and the MWD pulse/cloak combo. Even the OP was using one of these "bugs", which is the ability of a carrier to be used as a jump-capable freighter rather than as a logistics/combat support ship.
In before somebody says fofofofofofofofo in local causes server lag.
mlyp
However.
The skill system is one of EVE's really interesting features. A previous poster said it best: it comes off as intimidating. Especially as a newbie it feels like it takes so long to get into anything big and/or shiny.
The trick is, the skill system is put in an new light the second, the very instant, a player has to take a break from the game, either by choice or by circumstance in real life. When that happens, in a snap the skill system becomes the single best feature of the game. It allows you to take a month or two break from the game and still come back to a character who has advanced somewhat.
Compare it to, say, the endgame in WoW. If you take a month or two break there for whatever reason... well, I hope either your guild is extremely understanding and willing to help you gear up, or you don't mind shopping around for a new guild now that all your friends have advanced past you. In EVE, if you need to take a long break, you'll come back to find you can fly Interceptors or Heavy Assault Cruisers or something. EVE may not always reward constant play with immediate shinies (I'll get to that in a second anyway), but games with the WoW model demand constant, unending play or you will fall behind. Never mind real life, I like taking breaks for other games, so I know damn well which model I prefer.
(As an aside, for all the beef people give EVE about being "cut-throat" I encountered far more ruthless people in my time in WoW than I ever have in EVE. In EVE at least you know the guy next to you is going to stick a blaster in your face and take away your life, ISK and freedoms. Passive-agressive politicking and backstabbing is the order of the day when it comes to WoW. In EVE if someone backstabs you you can at least spread his ions across a solar system.)
As for ISK...
OK, this... frankly sounds like your own fault. As said, with the new starting skills a newbie can be in a good ratting ship in under a month if they know what skills to train (and we have a wiki for that.) Hell a Gallente soldier noob can be in a ratting Domi in... a week? A week and a half? Pretty similar situation for soldier noobs of other races (although Amarr have hellacious times with Angels.) If you have been playing for six months straight and you cannot fit a ship that can take on battleship rats then you are probably doing something wrong and you are welcome to ask for help.
And making ISK or getting resources in EVE is not difficult, especially if you make the move out into 0.0. I can earn 50 million ISK or more in a good day in Merch's current home system. Alternately getting the minerals together to build those nice fancy ships becomes far less difficult out here.
Although if you're an active PA poster, why on earth aren't you in MRCHI? Simple belt ratting in 0.0 is more profitable than mission running will ever be.
EVE is a game where you must set your own win condition. Currently Merch has, with the rest of Goonswarm, set our win condition to the taking of all of BoB's stations throughout the galactic south, with a secondary condition of getting a station (or three) of our own. My own win condition at the moment is to get my old character back, get into Gallente capitals and use them to tear down BoB's empire of lies and hypocrisy. EVE has to be what you make of it - the game will not give you any set victory conditions, and that's half the beauty of the game. A game like WoW uses victory conditions to force you to play a certain way - EVE makes you define those conditions for yourself.
And if you're in a good 0.0 alliance, waiting to do anything should be minimal.
GTC sales really aren't a problem. The ISK is earned in-game anyway, and the time codes go back to CCP so it isn't like third party sales where CCP sees no benefit. Hell GTCing allow a lot of people who couldn't otherwise play, play. I know I'll be picking up a 30-day here fairly soon to cover a maxed-out credit card for a month.
The developer stuff... well. Only so much defense can be given to it, but CCP have acknowledged the problem and are doing things to stop it. The guys at CCP live and eat because of EVE, they aren't going to let it go down the drain because a few guys got stupid about wanting to help their e-friends. And honestly I also have to wonder how much dev corruption occurs in other games that you never hear about, because in a non-competitive game it isn't nearly so obvious...
EDIT:
Hey now. As I said above, there's a lot I could criticize about EVE but the WoW playerbase is infinitely worse still. So much passive-aggressive BS...
It's not for everyone, but I can't stand the constant grind where you have to play unendingly for days just to "catch up" to everyone else. Atleast this game works around my schedule, and I can get up and leave whenever without falling behind or feel like oh shit I gotta go grind up a 5 more mobs to hit 59.
hello! that would be me
edit: and now about 4 more of us as well, but im the original
Oh, I'm not claiming that there is lack of foresight whatsoever on my part, I play the game to PvP with friends and skilled up my character specifically for that purpose.
I can fit up a full tech 2 HAC (complete with t2 drones) if I feel so inclined to but not being able to fly Min ship sucks in PvP and not being able to fly Caldari sucks in missions/complexes.
I fly Gallente, that was my first mistake. Coupled with living in 0.0, lacking industrial skills (I can actually fly a mining barge right when I re-activate), and being war-deck'd at all times really prevents me from enjoying EVE unless I quit my corp and pretty much lose the ability to PvP where they fly (they're blue to Tri right now fighting YouWhat and are getting a station out of the deal when they finally kick the BoB pets out).
Either way, it results in 7 months of 'mistakes' which makes is time I'll never get back and people will have the opportunity to gain more skills than me if I were to restart (which I have once before, I originally played Amarr).
That being said, I think I'm done with EVE for quite some time... I just thing that the OP has the wrong intentions when it comes to quitting. "Because I lost my petitionable stuff" is a poor reason. If you still enjoy the game, the people you fly with, and everything EVE has to offer you for entertainment, it's a great game.
spend a month in venal in a galente hac in belts and you will never have to make isk again, spend a month pvping in any galente ship with blasters and you will never want to change race.
I quit playing EvE because I got bored. I knew going in it prolly wouldn't hook me though but I wanted to try it. It's a decent enough game but after awhile I was just logging in to start another skill training. The game didn't feel quite finished to me. The PvE stuff felt tacked on and I didn't know anyone really in game so I didn't want to try the PvP stuff solo. I was always trying to get a bigger ship thinking ok, once I do the fun will start. I stopped having fun so I said hasta....if I ever do come back though Battleship training 5/5 will be done.
I fly a Taranis almost exclusively in PvP with fairly decent gunnery skills. Beyond the Thorax and Taranis though, Galente ships just don't cut it for PvP in every class until Command Ships (Arazus also aren't bad and will be better than Curses soon). Other races simply provide better options.
I hear they're re-doing the drone interface (as well as adding bandwidth) so I will probably re-sub for when this happens. Until then I find my selection of race and ships frustrating.
You know what I said about me not knowing much about Eve? I can still say I know more than you, as if you think an Arazu is merely 'not bad' and dismiss the Ishtar and the FUCKING DEIMOS as not good enough in PvP then you're pretty dumb.
I fly gallente exclusively. I also have skills to fly a fully t2 fit hac. I also have essentially ZERO in the way of industrial skills (50k sp I believe).
Cruisers: Thorax and celestis. Blaster rape or one of the cheapest and effective ewar cruisers. If you're gallente and want in on fleet fights, but can't fly a bs, the celestis is your best bet.
Interceptors: The ranis is a pig. Decent dps but also relatively slow. On the other hand, the ares is the second cheapest inty in the game, and also one of the fastest. MWD + Point and you're still a valuable asset in any gang.
Dictors: Eris is also one of the cheaper dictors, and while not the best, you can do amazing things if you're competent. Cheap = win is what I'm getting at here, as if you're flying these things in fleet/pos warfare, you have to take in the economics of getting blown apart, regardless of your uber skillz. And with the heavy dictors, the phobos is still essentially a deimos with resists that can also act as a bubble. Regardless of how the amarr or whichever dictor that looks like the best choice, this would still be a valuable asset in a fleet/gang.
Battlecruisers: THERE IS A REASON THE MYRM IS GETTING A NERF.
Blaster Brutix isn't bad for dps if you've got a small gang with you as well. I was top damage on most fights I went on with Black Lance, and these were gangs with blaster megas and other rape machines that theory crafting would say should have been outclassing me.
Recons: Atleast you mention that Arazus 'aren't bad', while I would say there's a huge reason you seem to be missing here that it's insanely popular due to its bonus, coupled with the other recons, can web/scram and lockdown a hostile ship while never getting within range.
Capitals: One of the favoured carriers in the fleet, the Thanatos compares decently with others, even if yours got owned and you're not overly impressed with it. And while the gallente titan may not be the best choice, the Nyx is still one one of the most widely used and popular motherships.
And if you're strapped for cash, your account has 3 character slots. It doesn't take much to give a new character an isk transfer and do highsec arbitrage which requires nearly 0 effort. Even older players I notice, pigeonhole themselves into the mentality that they NEED a capitol ship or a fleet mega with t2 rails. Which is wrong. You can do perfectly fine isk-wise in a domi with bs3 or 4 and decent support skills. And if you want t2 shinies, all you have to do is go for medium spec in rails and blasters, and you've just opened up several ships which are highly effective pwn mobiles.
If you don't like gallente, why don't you trade your character with someone else from another race with comparable skills? I argue that matari and gallente pilots are some of the most effective pilots with the range of ships open to them and the roles they can switch around in.
tl;dr
Gallente 4 lyfe, not 4 a day
Yeah seriously. Ishtar is a rape machine, and deimos was buffed recently and is a monster nowadays. Arazu is amazing as fuck, lachesis DOESNT SUCK, even with split weapons, oneiros is hilarious with armor repping and remote tracking boost/sensor boost. Anything else?
PINK
That alone needs no further mention or endorsement :colbert:
The phobos is going to be pink too, and it's going to be an utter rape engine.
Also change your sig, chicks with chest piercings aren't very pretty
To summarize what I'm reading:
- fly a 100+ million ISK ship (even when you do about 10% less damage in a T1 variant and will die either way if I'm focused)
- fly a piece of shit budget T2 ships just because it's T2, can be done in a Rifter, and other vastly superior options can be trained in about 12 days.
- train for a carrier
These are some brilliant counter-arguments. I am completely wrong.
Note: all of your 'counter-points' are impractical except the Celestis suggestion, all recons are good regardless of faction (Caldari are less good because of ECM nerf), and all Roden Shityard ships will always be underpowered because you can't fit the modules to push damage as more than 1 weapon system and can't fit enough of 1 weapon system to match other variants.
I'm over it.
Sup hacs are sub 100m. Not my fault you're whining about t2 prices. If you want something stupid cheap and rape, a fucking brutix, myrmidon, dominix, or megathron. You're complaining for the sake of complaining.
I mean, you understand the difference between an Ishtar and a Vexor, right? Or the difference between a Rifter and an Interceptor?
There are reasons people fly these ships. If you refuse to believe that something may be worthwhile to use and then complain about not doing well in PvP and PvE, well...
For being a supposed veteran and carrier pilot, your basic lack of understanding for what role each ship plays, and how it basically functions is starting to show through. What you're saying reads as if you've never flown these, and if you have, you certainly haven't used them effectively or with realising what you're supposed to use them for.
And even saying that my previous post is espousing flying 100mil+ ships, or only a carrier, is entirely, and I cannot stress this enough, missing the entire point of the entire post. As such, I'm not going to bother attempting to explain further.
Nice troll, a++, subscribed, would read again
now I know what it is to be owned
Herman Galo > whee. a quick jump on there....
big5824 > nice job with all the carrier ganking pandemic
Maikar > guys no please
Maikar > i just got this today x.x
Maikar > this is my LIFE in eve
big5824 > are u loosing a cap?
big5824 > i wana laugh
Elwoood Blues > wts thanatos, convo me
big5824 > another bites the dust *bom bom*
Maikar > yeah i bet you're real proud
Maikar > i didn't even have it fit
Maikar > in fact that was 30 seconds after i GOT INTO IT
Maximus Desimus > ur mistake
Fitzwilli > lol
Maikar > not my mistake
Blafbeest > I am proud
Maikar > i was moving it to the other station
sakana > \o/
Maikar > that's where my fitting are
Maximus Desimus > lol
Blafbeest > why didnt you say?
Maikar > -.-
Maximus Desimus > should have brought ur fittings to the ship not ship to the fittings
Fitzwilli > ^^
Ticalos > i admit i've undocked unfitted carriers before
Ticalos > then again, there was noone in local
Maikar > i dun care
Maikar > i'm done
Maikar > bye
Fitzwilli > lol
Fitzwilli > o/
Maximus Desimus > see ya
Ticalos > can i have your thanatos fittings?
Ticalos > seeing as y'know
Ticalos > no great use for them
See, while I find this hilarious I am also positively terrified that it'll happen to me when I can finally undock my carrier...then again I have a second account getting ready to pop cynos etc so I suppose I'm prepared.