Multiple times now I have had a perfectly valid puzzle solution but I am denied because it's not the one solution the game will accept.
The mechanic involving the little upside down y is particularly offensive when it comes to this.
I hate that I have no map. I hate how some of these mechanics are poorly explained. I hate the complete lack of a hint system of any kind. I hate how bland and boring the island is. I hate that I basically have no narrative motivation to even be here doing this.
This game bums me out and I'm pretty much still playing it because I've put too much time in already and don't want to leave it forever unfinished.
I did once find a valid solution to a puzzle the game wouldn't accept; but it was pretty easy to guess the "real" solution based on information present.
..of course I had to reverse engineer how that solution could be possible, just so I felt that I had properly "solved" it. :razz:
AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
edited February 2016
I'm not talking down to you. Like Diarmuid said, there's something you're not understanding about the rule of the section if it's not accepting a solution you're putting in. That's just how the game works.
Judging by the mechanic, you're stuck in the quarry, right? What's your understanding of that rule?
Despite having to just look up how the sun icons work because the game didn't feel like teaching me. Did a piss-poor job teaching the y thing too but it at least had a tutorial-ish section for those.
I started this up yesterday, and I'm quite enjoying it! Well, apart from the tapes. To adopt a quote: If brevity is the soul of wit, the guy that wrote the bit about god being both invisible and visible must have been the dumbest man on the planet. So far I feel like I have followed the structure of the game quite well, probing outwards until I reach a puzzle element I have never seen before, then doubling back to find another path until I find the training puzzles for that mechanic. I think I may have made a mistake by going to the seaside village a bit too early though, because there are like 6 new kinds of puzzles here (color and symbol variations I haven't seen yet) and now my head is spinning.
So far I've gotten stuck in a couple of places where I feel like I should be able to find the solution, but since solving a puzzle rarely seems to have any actual effect I'm pretty comfortable with leaving them until later. If anyone is curious (but no spoilers please):
I got stuck on one of the seaside symmetry puzzles sequences, where the yellow line that mirrors your blue one starts fading until it's actually gone. I couldn't find any clues in the environment to solve it, nor did solving the following match the terrain-style puzzles seem to do anything.
I've found about seven puzzles that include tetris pieces so far, including three that seem like a tutorial sequence, but I just don't get them. My best theory so far is that I need to draw their shape onto the board with them inside, but that seems impossible.
I'm also curious about the switch "puzzle" on the wooden platform jutting out from the house in that area. The cable going into the water is obviously activated elsewhere. My best guess so far is that it is connected to the boat I've heard rumors about, presumably some sort of fast travel system.
Despite having to just look up how the sun icons work because the game didn't feel like teaching me. Did a piss-poor job teaching the y thing too but it at least had a tutorial-ish section for those.
Pretty sure the solutions are verified logically, rather than predetermined.
If it didn't work then you didn't understand the rules.
Also there is totally a tutorial area for the sun icons, you just obviously haven't found them yet lol.
I don't think the game does a piss-poor job of teaching; you're just doing a piss-poor job of learning.
Seriously though if you hate it so much just stop?
And it's cool if you don't like it, but you're complaining about a lot of things that are demonstrably false so of course people are going to poke fun.
Your argument boils down to "nuh uh!" and "you're just stupid"
Someone else literally after me posted that they also ran into a puzzle that didn't accept a solution it should.
Do you have any real evidence that it's somehow impossible for this to happen? That this game is some perfect example of game design that can't possibly have any flaws in any of its hundreds of puzzle designs?
"I think this does a bad job of explaining some mechanics" is also not "demonstratably false". Just because YOU have caught on to things okay does not mean everyone will. Not everyone thinks the same way, and what works for some doesn't work for everyone. I can accept that I missed a tutorial area somewhere for one mechanic(which would be less of an issue if there was a fucking map) but there have been multiple mechanics I have experienced the tutorials and did not leave those sections feeling like I had been properly taught. And that's not a thing I can be wrong about. It's purely subjective. I don't like how the tutorializing is designed in this game. I think the way it chooses to teach things is unfun and often unintuitive.
And "I don't like that there is no map" or "I don't like that there is 0 hints so if you can't understand something you're permanently SOL" or "This game gives me no meaningful motivation or context to do this stuff" or "I find the island boring" are also completely subjective things.
Programming a puzzle game to check against predetermined solutions would in fact take more work than programming a logic check
+4
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David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
The upside down Y symbol thing was the only one where I went through the tutorial and had no better understanding of how it worked than before, but it might have something to do with me seeing someone call it a propeller symbol and being convinced that it somehow rotated the lines, so I went into it with a predisposed notion that was hard to shake.
There was a bit in the town where I thought the game hadn't explained the suns adequately to me, but it turned out there was something else I hadn't learned yet that came into play there.
Re: map.
The boats all have a map. It's not a permanent mini-map or anything but this also clearly isn't that kind of game.
Yeah... I don't think the map in the game is really adequate either.
There needs to at least be signposts in the village that point to the different tutorial levels for the different mechanics. Maybe then everyone wouldn't get stuck there all the time.
You clearly don't have a valid solution if the game isn't accepting it
I clearly have.
Multiple times.
But thanks for talking down to me.
We'd need examples.
The only puzzles I've seen with multiple solutions where some aren't 'accepted', are those puzzles where some solutions just don't do anything when accepted.
Your continued insistence on being dismissive and condescending towards me isn't exactly helping, dude.
Edit: I'm not gonna go boot up the game and go through all those puzzles again until I find the couple that I had this issue with, and then try and remember what my other solution was on top of that. If I was stuck on them it would be easy to do that but since I've completed those sections and moved on, that's more effort than I'm willing to put in.
You see a guy get frustrated with something and vent a little then feel the need to basically call that person stupid and then when that person does not respond well to personal shots you then chastise that person for being upset about it.
Well I actually meant to imply you were stubborn, because of how you insist you're right instead of listening to what the game's trying to teach you. You're the only one who has called you stupid.
Hey LockedOnTarget maybe you should stop playing this game. You're clearly not enjoying it and based on your issues I doubt that will change
I mean, persevere of you feel like it, but at this point I doubt it will convince you otherwise if you aren't getting inherent satisfaction from discovering the mechanics
You see a guy get frustrated with something and vent a little then feel the need to basically call that person stupid and then when that person does not respond well to personal shots you then chastise that person for being upset about it.
That's shitty. Back off.
No one has called you stupid
People have said that you're mistaken or misunderstanding
Smart people do those things all the time and the witness is in fact all about making you misunderstand and make mistakes, and using those mistakes to deduce the correct answers
I would almost guarantee that if you showed us a puzzle solution you think is valid that the game rejects I could explain why it doesn't work
The literal puzzles in this game aren't really the main hook. The REAL puzzles are logically deducing the different rule sets of the different puzzles. Actually doing the puzzles is just a way to verify your solutions. The game would be a categorical failure if it ever rejected a valid solution. So, yeah, the odds of the game fundamentally undermining the thing that makes the game worth playing are lower than the odds of you misunderstanding a puzzle and getting frustrated and blaming the game.
It's like you're playing Mario and claiming that it's impossible to reach the flagpole, and getting offended when people say "no it definitely is, you're not jumping good enough"
If the game is making you this angry then you should probably hang it up
You posted in a thread complaining about things, which fair enough, venting feels real good. But when people give you advice to try and help you feel less frustrated re: this game, I.E. suggestions such as 'The game accepts all correct solutions, you might want to go back and try and re-examine your understanding of the rules so you have a better time and get less frustrated' That's a nice thing that they are doing, trying to help you have a better experience. People are just trying to be helpful, not mean.
I say this as someone who also 1. Wanted a Map 2. Was having serious trouble with the lack of tutorialization. Then, thanks to this thread and listening to other friends advice and ~protips~, I realized that it was actually my bad and that the game was giving me everything I needed and only I was to blame.
Now whenever a friend starts playing I tell them:
Hey don't be like me and fail to find the map forever, because it shows you which area has which tutorial in it! Go find the boat for quicktravel!!
But you should really just chill and stop playing this game, or when you vent, accept that sometimes people are going to give you advice. You don't have to accept the advice, but gettin' mad about it won't help you or anyone else. VIDEOGAMES ARE FUN and I'm sorry you're not having a fun time with it
While I agree with the main spirit of the posts above, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to tell someone to stop playing the game. Adding that to the end of an otherwise friendly post risks undermining the intended message, due to the implied "this game is not for you" that comes with it.
if something is making you angry and pissing you off and making you frustrated and the only reason you're playing it is because you've already put so much time into it.... Taking a break or just stopping is a really good idea. Games are for funsies.
You clearly don't have a valid solution if the game isn't accepting it
I clearly have.
Multiple times.
But thanks for talking down to me.
no ones taking down on you, I've seen tons of people claim to have the game not accept their correct solution and every time it's been them missing something about the rules, plus the game verifies puzzles via logic. And if the game actually did have a problem that big with its sole mechanic, we'd have heard of it.
Heck, it happened to me, I went to people and asked them why the game didn't like my solution, and sure enough I had overlooked something
Also the tutorial for the star pieces is in the treehouse area
I bet one of the frustrations is that the village is right there near the starting area, but it's clearly one of the last areas you're meant to do because there's puzzle types from every area there.
I know I beat myself up on some of those puzzles for a while before moving on.
I'm trying to discover mechanics myself. Once I've solved the mechanics I'm giving myself what feels like a reasonable amount of time on each puzzle, and then depending on how frustrated I am I'll either move to another area or if I'm extremely upset I'll look up just that particular panel. Ive done this maybe 4 or 5 times when I didn't have a sketch pad handy.
I'm actually enjoying being completely at a loss. I'll quote Speed here, "The REAL puzzles are logically deducing the different rule sets of the different puzzles. Actually doing the puzzles is just a way to verify your solutions." I loved Myst, and I do Sudoku and crosswords before bed.
So being forced to even find the puzzles just increases the opportunity for discovery. Like... when you stumble on little moments or vistas, for instance,
the giant statue on the mountain reaching up to the statue on the beach -- I am 75% sure that is set dressing, but it is neat;
I am super into that. I enjoy the exploration for itself, which is part of my enjoyment of every game, but it is a particularly lush and rewarding environment. There is mystery, but there's no sense of urgency to it.
Sure, the puzzles can be frustrating, and for me, part of that is playing with the beau whose brain works different and finds it difficult to walk away from a puzzle for a bit, but! As in our normal lives, our strengths compensate for each other's blind spots, so having another perspective is really useful. Which is why this game engenders a lot of discussion and engagement with community. There is shit you cannot see on your own, simply due to personality.
not to mention physical issues, but ladeda.
If it weren't challenging, it wouldn't be as satisfying. Sometimes that resolution is a result of interacting with others. You learn, and see in a new way.
I haven't even really dug into the cultural media theorizing, but I'm getting ideas, now. dot dot dot
Also there is totally a tutorial area for the sun icons, you just obviously haven't found them yet lol.
I don't think the game does a piss-poor job of teaching; you're just doing a piss-poor job of learning.
Duh, how is that not going to end up with a hostile exchange? Putting lol after a line and then saying a person is doing a piss-poor job of learning? Come on.
I would be more into the exploration aspect if the island and art design didn't feel so bland and sterile to me.
That's what my real problem with the overall game I think. For the most part, the puzzles are good. I think a few here and there are poorly designed but on average the mechanics are fine. But the wrapping around those mechanics is just super boring IMO.
Posts
Well don't make a habit of it or you'll eventually get stuck.
Multiple times now I have had a perfectly valid puzzle solution but I am denied because it's not the one solution the game will accept.
The mechanic involving the little upside down y is particularly offensive when it comes to this.
I hate that I have no map. I hate how some of these mechanics are poorly explained. I hate the complete lack of a hint system of any kind. I hate how bland and boring the island is. I hate that I basically have no narrative motivation to even be here doing this.
This game bums me out and I'm pretty much still playing it because I've put too much time in already and don't want to leave it forever unfinished.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
You clearly don't have a valid solution if the game isn't accepting it
Steam
..of course I had to reverse engineer how that solution could be possible, just so I felt that I had properly "solved" it. :razz:
I clearly have.
Multiple times.
But thanks for talking down to me.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Judging by the mechanic, you're stuck in the quarry, right? What's your understanding of that rule?
Steam
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Despite having to just look up how the sun icons work because the game didn't feel like teaching me. Did a piss-poor job teaching the y thing too but it at least had a tutorial-ish section for those.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
So far I've gotten stuck in a couple of places where I feel like I should be able to find the solution, but since solving a puzzle rarely seems to have any actual effect I'm pretty comfortable with leaving them until later. If anyone is curious (but no spoilers please):
I've found about seven puzzles that include tetris pieces so far, including three that seem like a tutorial sequence, but I just don't get them. My best theory so far is that I need to draw their shape onto the board with them inside, but that seems impossible.
I'm also curious about the switch "puzzle" on the wooden platform jutting out from the house in that area. The cable going into the water is obviously activated elsewhere. My best guess so far is that it is connected to the boat I've heard rumors about, presumably some sort of fast travel system.
Pretty sure the solutions are verified logically, rather than predetermined.
If it didn't work then you didn't understand the rules.
Also there is totally a tutorial area for the sun icons, you just obviously haven't found them yet lol.
I don't think the game does a piss-poor job of teaching; you're just doing a piss-poor job of learning.
God forbid I don't like the experience this game is giving me.
Guess I'm just lying or stupid lol
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
And it's cool if you don't like it, but you're complaining about a lot of things that are demonstrably false so of course people are going to poke fun.
Your argument boils down to "nuh uh!" and "you're just stupid"
Someone else literally after me posted that they also ran into a puzzle that didn't accept a solution it should.
Do you have any real evidence that it's somehow impossible for this to happen? That this game is some perfect example of game design that can't possibly have any flaws in any of its hundreds of puzzle designs?
"I think this does a bad job of explaining some mechanics" is also not "demonstratably false". Just because YOU have caught on to things okay does not mean everyone will. Not everyone thinks the same way, and what works for some doesn't work for everyone. I can accept that I missed a tutorial area somewhere for one mechanic(which would be less of an issue if there was a fucking map) but there have been multiple mechanics I have experienced the tutorials and did not leave those sections feeling like I had been properly taught. And that's not a thing I can be wrong about. It's purely subjective. I don't like how the tutorializing is designed in this game. I think the way it chooses to teach things is unfun and often unintuitive.
And "I don't like that there is no map" or "I don't like that there is 0 hints so if you can't understand something you're permanently SOL" or "This game gives me no meaningful motivation or context to do this stuff" or "I find the island boring" are also completely subjective things.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
There was a bit in the town where I thought the game hadn't explained the suns adequately to me, but it turned out there was something else I hadn't learned yet that came into play there.
Re: map.
i know a cool frog and a dolphin who would like to have a few words with you
Also (super minor puzzle spoilers)
There needs to at least be signposts in the village that point to the different tutorial levels for the different mechanics. Maybe then everyone wouldn't get stuck there all the time.
Also
We'd need examples.
The only puzzles I've seen with multiple solutions where some aren't 'accepted', are those puzzles where some solutions just don't do anything when accepted.
Edit: I'm not gonna go boot up the game and go through all those puzzles again until I find the couple that I had this issue with, and then try and remember what my other solution was on top of that. If I was stuck on them it would be easy to do that but since I've completed those sections and moved on, that's more effort than I'm willing to put in.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
That's shitty. Back off.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
But ok, I'll back off now. Sorry for that.
I mean, persevere of you feel like it, but at this point I doubt it will convince you otherwise if you aren't getting inherent satisfaction from discovering the mechanics
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
No one has called you stupid
People have said that you're mistaken or misunderstanding
Smart people do those things all the time and the witness is in fact all about making you misunderstand and make mistakes, and using those mistakes to deduce the correct answers
I would almost guarantee that if you showed us a puzzle solution you think is valid that the game rejects I could explain why it doesn't work
The literal puzzles in this game aren't really the main hook. The REAL puzzles are logically deducing the different rule sets of the different puzzles. Actually doing the puzzles is just a way to verify your solutions. The game would be a categorical failure if it ever rejected a valid solution. So, yeah, the odds of the game fundamentally undermining the thing that makes the game worth playing are lower than the odds of you misunderstanding a puzzle and getting frustrated and blaming the game.
It's like you're playing Mario and claiming that it's impossible to reach the flagpole, and getting offended when people say "no it definitely is, you're not jumping good enough"
If the game is making you this angry then you should probably hang it up
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I say this as someone who also 1. Wanted a Map 2. Was having serious trouble with the lack of tutorialization. Then, thanks to this thread and listening to other friends advice and ~protips~, I realized that it was actually my bad and that the game was giving me everything I needed and only I was to blame.
Now whenever a friend starts playing I tell them:
But you should really just chill and stop playing this game, or when you vent, accept that sometimes people are going to give you advice. You don't have to accept the advice, but gettin' mad about it won't help you or anyone else. VIDEOGAMES ARE FUN and I'm sorry you're not having a fun time with it
no ones taking down on you, I've seen tons of people claim to have the game not accept their correct solution and every time it's been them missing something about the rules, plus the game verifies puzzles via logic. And if the game actually did have a problem that big with its sole mechanic, we'd have heard of it.
Heck, it happened to me, I went to people and asked them why the game didn't like my solution, and sure enough I had overlooked something
Also the tutorial for the star pieces is in the treehouse area
I know I beat myself up on some of those puzzles for a while before moving on.
Where everyone was swearing up and down that the puzzle was bugged and the key was jumping all over the place erratically
When actually that's exactly how it should behave given all the time travel rules in play
http://www.audioentropy.com/
The latter was consescending and dismissive.
So no, I'm not going to be okay with that.
But it's clear no one is going to believe me so whatever.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
I'm trying to discover mechanics myself. Once I've solved the mechanics I'm giving myself what feels like a reasonable amount of time on each puzzle, and then depending on how frustrated I am I'll either move to another area or if I'm extremely upset I'll look up just that particular panel. Ive done this maybe 4 or 5 times when I didn't have a sketch pad handy.
I mean it's not that we don't believe you when you say that your solution was correct, it's just that we don't think it was.
So being forced to even find the puzzles just increases the opportunity for discovery. Like... when you stumble on little moments or vistas, for instance,
Sure, the puzzles can be frustrating, and for me, part of that is playing with the beau whose brain works different and finds it difficult to walk away from a puzzle for a bit, but! As in our normal lives, our strengths compensate for each other's blind spots, so having another perspective is really useful. Which is why this game engenders a lot of discussion and engagement with community. There is shit you cannot see on your own, simply due to personality.
I haven't even really dug into the cultural media theorizing, but I'm getting ideas, now. dot dot dot
If nothing else, it can be a meditative game.
Duh, how is that not going to end up with a hostile exchange? Putting lol after a line and then saying a person is doing a piss-poor job of learning? Come on.
That's what my real problem with the overall game I think. For the most part, the puzzles are good. I think a few here and there are poorly designed but on average the mechanics are fine. But the wrapping around those mechanics is just super boring IMO.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog