Finished this over the weekend and like everyone loved the punisher stuff, felt the Electra stuff was the weaker part.
Not Electra specifically, but the whole Hand/ninja stuff and the fact it was so isolated from the majority of the cast. The biggest let down of the season was there were no scenes between her and Foggy or Karen. Her no consequences easy going attitude would be a sharp distinction to Matt's friends and would have been a way for them to directly confront that negative aspects (from their perspective) in his life. Instead we don't see any of that average person aspect in the Electra half, and really don't get Matt in the punisher half after episode three or four.
The ninjas always worked better as a vague threat with little screen time, but taken seriously when they did. Their opening bit at the construction site was great, the duo having to give it their all and one of them getting wounded showed authentic stakes. After that though, it seemed a running joke of Suddenly Ninjas! They pop up everywhere, no explanation given and disappear through magically silent man hole covers. They attack populated centers, despite supposedly being supper secret and are really really bad at fighting. It's hard to take a scene where six guys with katana can swing away at DD and then lose to punches and kicks. Especially when everytime a street thug gang messes with DD, a few get a hit or two in using improvised weapons. Either street tough in hells kitchen are better fighters than immortal ninjas or there is some dissonance going on. This issue is capstoned in the climax battle when DD is so unconcerned about them that he takes a few minutes to mourn Electra in the middle of combat.
Felt a bit like they were trained by the people doing Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. Nobu was also underutilized as a villan.
Finished this over the weekend and like everyone loved the punisher stuff, felt the Electra stuff was the weaker part.
Not Electra specifically, but the whole Hand/ninja stuff and the fact it was so isolated from the majority of the cast. The biggest let down of the season was there were no scenes between her and Foggy or Karen. Her no consequences easy going attitude would be a sharp distinction to Matt's friends and would have been a way for them to directly confront that negative aspects (from their perspective) in his life. Instead we don't see any of that average person aspect in the Electra half, and really don't get Matt in the punisher half after episode three or four.
The ninjas always worked better as a vague threat with little screen time, but taken seriously when they did. Their opening bit at the construction site was great, the duo having to give it their all and one of them getting wounded showed authentic stakes. After that though, it seemed a running joke of Suddenly Ninjas! They pop up everywhere, no explanation given and disappear through magically silent man hole covers. They attack populated centers, despite supposedly being supper secret and are really really bad at fighting. It's hard to take a scene where six guys with katana can swing away at DD and then lose to punches and kicks. Especially when everytime a street thug gang messes with DD, a few get a hit or two in using improvised weapons. Either street tough in hells kitchen are better fighters than immortal ninjas or there is some dissonance going on. This issue is capstoned in the climax battle when DD is so unconcerned about them that he takes a few minutes to mourn Electra in the middle of combat.
Felt a bit like they were trained by the people doing Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. Nobu was also underutilized as a villan.
great I can hear the hand ninjas making putty noises now
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
edited March 2016
Regarding Matt Murdock this season, they really need to find a new avenue for his character beyond "Catholic man angst tantrums" moving forward, because while those are fine now and then, they're getting repetitive. Your main character can't be this two dimensional this often.
In the comics Daredevil started off as a corny Spider-Man knockoff then turned into a gritty Batman knockoff, and finally settled down into a comfortable middle ground between the two extremes. Matt Murdock is a guy who loves life. He loves the ladies, he loves fine wines, food, and cars, he loves his friends, and he loves being a swashbuckling Errol Flynn style superhero. You need that side of him to serve as contrast for when his life inevitably falls apart and he goes down one of his depression spirals. This season contained too much of the latter and not enough of the former.
Hopefully next season opens with Matt trying to turn things around and balance his life better before the villain d'jour shows up and drives things back into the dirt again.
Fakefaux on
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
So watched two more episodes and I have a couple thoughts.
#1 - The stairwell fight was amazing and as enjoyable as the hallway fight from season one.
#2 - They made me feel sorry for a crazy psychopath. Not sure how they pulled that off, but they were able to. Amazing. :?
Regarding Matt Murdock this season, they really need to find a new avenue for his character beyond "Catholic man angst tantrums" moving forward, because while those are fine now and then, they're getting repetitive. Your main character can't be this two dimensional this often.
In the comics Daredevil started off as a corny Spider-Man knockoff then turned into a gritty Batman knockoff, and finally settled down into a comfortably middle ground between the two extremes. Matt Murdock is a guy who loves life. He loves the ladies, he loves fine wines, food, and cars, he loves his friends, and he loves being a swashbuckling Errol Flynn style superhero. You need that side of him to serve as contrast for when his life inevitably falls apart and he goes down one of his depression spirals. This season contained too much of the latter and not enough of the former.
Hopefully next season opens with Matt trying to turn things around and balance his life better before the villain d'jour shows up and drives things back into the dirt again.
I agree with this emphatically because this is supposed to be heading for a defenders team up and so far Matt, Jessica and Luke have all been slight variations on "serious, damaged, just wants to do the right thing"
FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
They could stand to liven Luke up a bit.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Episode 9 might be my favorite episode of all Marvel stuff.
Setting Fisk up like that, very well done, making him scared in the beginning but acclimating and creating his little rascals gang, and then setting up Castle.
And I like when Punisher kiwls the bad guyz, stabbing them with the shivs and the broom handles and the bone tomahawk
In fact, this might be the first time the show successfully carried three plots with Matt (no Elektra so much better!), Karen pretending to be Lois Lane, and Punisher/Fisk.
Karen needs to know. All three need to be prepared, with all the shared knowledge they have, because Fisk has promised to come down upon them like a tsunami when he gets out.
Prison spoiler:
Fisk doesn't even have to get out, that place is basicly a base of operations for him now. He could run the whole show and never step a foot outside, unless he wants to like he is able to do for Punisher.
That by itself must shake Matt's convictions that one can put their faith in the justice system to its core.
I thought the teaser they showed when I finished Daredevil had a pretty good feel to it.
It was pretty much "are you serious, whitey?" Luke from the comics.
I only say that because both in that scene and in Jessica Jones Luke spent a lot of his time as a fairly stoic and reserved character. It made sense, he was trying to keep a low profile, but even when he got angry he tended to seethe with anger internally more than anything else. Between him and Daredevil we've got two characters who have mastered the stoic/tortured hero to different degrees. We don't know exactly what they're going to do with Iron Fist, but in his earlier comics Danny was also a stoic, vengeful type. He mellowed out later on and I certainly hope they use that version of him, but the possibility remains that we could end up with three very similar characters in terms of mood/personality.
Mike Colter's great at those "are you serious, whitey?" moments, he plays resignation very well, but I'd also like to see him display a little more bombast when Luke gets worked up about something. Luke Cage needs the ability to flip out over some shit, whether it's the man trying to keep him down or Dr. Doom stiffing him on a paycheck.
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MichaelLCIn what furnace was thy brain?ChicagoRegistered Userregular
So watched two more episodes and I have a couple thoughts.
#1 - The stairwell fight was amazing and as enjoyable as the hallway fight from season one.
#2 - They made me feel sorry for a crazy psychopath. Not sure how they pulled that off, but they were able to. Amazing. :?
Am I misremembering something? Now that I think about it, I thought the name of the ninja clan was "The Foot" and not "The Hand" Was something changed?
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Finished this up tonight. Loved the whole season, I think my main complaints were with the final fight.
Nobu was a pretty bad pick for a final villain imo because, a), Matt already beat him once in S1 and even if he's immortal he didn't get any tougher. And b), he doesn't have nearly the personality of a Kingpin or Punisher. He's just a ninja we happen to know the name of. We don't really get any character off of him other than that he's basically a cultist.
My other complaint was that Frank showed up way too late. The fight was basically already over, they might as well have not had him at all, and then showed him with the vest in a post-scene killing some gang members or something. Especially since it seemed pretty clear that the number of ninjas on the roof got cut in half during one of the camera cuts. Why not have Frank thin their numbers to get to that point?
Jesus Christ. I sit down to watch the first episode, and just the first episode. It ends, and it is impossible to not immediately watch the second because if you saw it you know why.
Finished this up tonight. Loved the whole season, I think my main complaints were with the final fight.
Nobu was a pretty bad pick for a final villain imo because, a), Matt already beat him once in S1 and even if he's immortal he didn't get any tougher. And b), he doesn't have nearly the personality of a Kingpin or Punisher. He's just a ninja we happen to know the name of. We don't really get any character off of him other than that he's basically a cultist.
My other complaint was that Frank showed up way too late. The fight was basically already over, they might as well have not had him at all, and then showed him with the vest in a post-scene killing some gang members or something. Especially since it seemed pretty clear that the number of ninjas on the roof got cut in half during one of the camera cuts. Why not have Frank thin their numbers to get to that point?
I know it's a point of contention, but
I still don't think Matt beat Nobu in Season 1. He was on the defensive, getting killed, and accidentally hit the light which set Nobu on fire. So from that perspective, Nobu is still a threat in Season 2, as it's a reappearance from a guy Matt barely survived via luck.
Oh brilliant
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
Looking back on The Hand in the show, I think part of the problem is the source material. General season spoilers:
In the comics The Hand worship/serve a demon known as The Beast which usually manifests by possessing people, and its goal is apocalyptic destruction. It once tried to start a nuclear war, for example. Most of the time The Beast doesn't come up in Hand-centric stories, which means they're usually just a bunch of evil ninjas with vague goals. When The Beast does come up its goals aren't very interesting. Villains who just want to destroy the world because "evil" generally aren't, and it has no real personality or character to speak of. Likewise, The Hand are not given any particular reason to desire the apocalyptic outcome. They have no fleshed out religious dogma about how The Beast is going to reward them in the afterlife or anything after it destroys the world, they just seem to serve it because reasons.
Likewise in the show The Hand has no particularly clear goals or motives. Everything is vague. Stick describes The Hand as being an organization just out for power and wealth, with maybe a bit of world domination thrown in. Nobu says they live to serve the Black Sky. The Black Sky seems to roughly equate to The Beast (The Hand worship it and it manifests as a possessing force in humans) but the exact nature of the Black Sky is never elaborated upon, nor are The Hand ever given any real reason for worshiping/serving it.
In short, the comics don't really provide very good or interesting goals for The Hand. The show doesn't seem to know what to do about this. Rather than create an entirely new philosophy/creed/motive for the ninjas, it opts to obfuscate everything while dropping the rather uninspired name of The Beast for the Black Sky instead, while still keeping things mysterious enough that they don't have to depict The Hand as an apocalyptic cult.
It's not a particularly satisfying solution to the problem the source material presents, but it's an understandable one.
I think the Hand was more interesting in season 1 since Nobu had sort of an antagonistic relationship with Fisk and they had this criminal cabal to play off of. The mystery surrounding them was more intriguing because you saw how Fisk and Owlsley tread carefully around Nobu. But in season 2,
they're kind of just disconnected from everyone. Sure, Roxxon is working for them but the only interaction they have is with the accountant guy. They're not fighting or dealing with other criminals. The police aren't going after them. The Chaste are supposed to be fighting them but we only see them dealing with Stick and Elektra. The interaction Daredevil has with them is kind of boring and is mostly just him fighting a bunch of ninjas.
And they didn't make Nobu a very interesting villain since he's just a physical threat. He's not a master manipulator or schemer who can turn people against Daredevil or lay clever traps for him. He's just there for Daredevil to beat up. The fact that he can come back from death wasn't even really that significant.
I still don't think Matt beat Nobu in Season 1. He was on the defensive, getting killed, and accidentally hit the light which set Nobu on fire. So from that perspective, Nobu is still a threat in Season 2, as it's a reappearance from a guy Matt barely survived via luck.
Er, that wasn't luck.
Sometimes I think people forget the way Matt's super powers work. The flammable liquid? Matt could smell it. The electrical hum and heat coming off a light and its wiring, Matt can hear it and feel it. Top that off with that he can throw and bounce projectiles off of surfaces with enough accuracy and power to knock people out. People who he can feel right through to their bones and squishy bits like his sonar is a sort of x-ray vision to boot.
You ever played the Batman Arkham games? You know the like Predator vision modes Batman has, Detective mode and so on? The lock-on batarangs? Daredevil has that, only its even better. Dude is like a step away from seeing code of The Matrix like Neo.
Doesn't mean that Nobu wasn't a threat that nearly sliced some vital organs out though in Season 1. That he didn't though shouldn't be throwing shade on Nobu because the reaction times and speed at which Matt moves to avoid taking fatal damage allows him to register that someone is pulling a trigger and then dodge the path of the bullet. And Matt is no slouch in the tough bastard department either, he takes blows that would knock out or kill other people, some of them tough in their own right, and then just keeps on swinging.
My personal theory, I think Matt is a mutant, not just a blind ninja.
CanadianWolverine on
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
edited March 2016
I actually rather like Matt's character. I think it's interesting having a devout catholic who just plain enjoys beating the shit out of people, and has to deal with that.
He doesn't just enjoy the swashbuckling. He enjoys the violence. And I find that interesting, especially when he's paired with someone that pushes that desire.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I wound up watching the first four episodes despite my intention to just watch the one. The whole Punisher mini-arc that kicks off the season was excellent.
I actually rather like Matt's character. I think it's interesting having a devout catholic who just plain enjoys beating the shit out of people, and has to deal with that.
He doesn't just enjoy the swashbuckling. He enjoys the violence. And I find that interesting, especially when he's paired with someone that pushes that desire.
I have to say i like that as well. It gets to a lot of interesting questions which can't really be discussed in other marvel properties. Jessica Jones is/was about agency. Daredevil is about sinning. Luke Cage will be about?
The main issue with the season i thought was something else.
Karen not knowing and their relationship
They needed to resolve that in the middle of the season. While its nice for the growth Karen had it seemed to bog down the plots. It was better with how they did the other thing related to that because it meant you had real potential growth.
Other than that i plowed through it and just wanted more. Give me season 3 goddamnit.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Just watched epidose 9.
I knew Fisk would get Castle out. They weren't going to leave Punisher in jail, and I didn't think they'd devote time to some elaborate jail break episode. Glad they got it done nice and quick, and keeping in character for both of them.
But that fight. Holy shit.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
So watched two more episodes and I have a couple thoughts.
#1 - The stairwell fight was amazing and as enjoyable as the hallway fight from season one.
#2 - They made me feel sorry for a crazy psychopath. Not sure how they pulled that off, but they were able to. Amazing. :?
Which one?
The scene with Punisher in the graveyard talking about his daughter.
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I really liked this season much more than the last, but the closure to every major arc failed to stick the landing.
- The Blacksmith reveal seemed to be totally and utterly random and out-of-nowhere
- Did Karen ever formally quit? She just seemed to start working for the Bulletin while still being in Nelson & Murdock's employ. Nice that she got a huge office, too, considering she's never published anything or has any journalism experience. She'll be popular in the lunchroom, no doubt.
- I'm so sick of this fortune cookie ninja shit that never goes anywhere. Black Sky! Black Sky! Who cares? Either deal with it or drop it, don't spend 5 episodes talking around it.
- Matt Murdock is a schmuck and was the least interesting person on the show this season
- Oh god secret identity plot lines are sooooo tedious and played out
I really liked this season much more than the last, but the closure to every major arc failed to stick the landing.
- The Blacksmith reveal seemed to be totally and utterly random and out-of-nowhere
- Did Karen ever formally quit? She just seemed to start working for the Bulletin while still being in Nelson & Murdock's employ. Nice that she got a huge office, too, considering she's never published anything or has any journalism experience. She'll be popular in the lunchroom, no doubt.
- I'm so sick of this fortune cookie ninja shit that never goes anywhere. Black Sky! Black Sky! Who cares? Either deal with it or drop it, don't spend 5 episodes talking around it.
- Matt Murdock is a schmuck and was the least interesting person on the show this season
- Oh god secret identity plot lines are sooooo tedious and played out
To be fair, she basically single handedly took down Fisk while everyone else in NYC was sucking his dick. I feel like that probably nets you some silence to any complaints.
Edit: Also like half the police force who was corrupt.
I actually rather like Matt's character. I think it's interesting having a devout catholic who just plain enjoys beating the shit out of people, and has to deal with that.
He doesn't just enjoy the swashbuckling. He enjoys the violence. And I find that interesting, especially when he's paired with someone that pushes that desire.
That approach definitely has its appeal, I just think it's limited. There's only so much you can do with "Matt loves hurting people but feels guilty about it." I would also argue they haven't totally sold the idea that he likes the swashbuckling part; so far the show has focused almost entirely on Matt's love of violence and less so on his zest for life in general.
Mid season spoilers:
That's one of the nice things about Elektra in their college flashback scenes and in their initial investigations into the Yakuza. She brings the thrill-seeker part of Matt's personality (not just the part that craves violence) to the fore. It's a shame that doesn't last.
The way I see it, why call him "Daredevil" unless he acts like an actual daredevil? If you just want the contrast of his name/costume and his religious/heroic nature then you might as well just stick with "Devil" or "The Devil of Hell's Kitchen." He needs a bit of Evil Knievel in there with all the tortured Catholic guilt. It makes him something more than red Batman.
I actually rather like Matt's character. I think it's interesting having a devout catholic who just plain enjoys beating the shit out of people, and has to deal with that.
He doesn't just enjoy the swashbuckling. He enjoys the violence. And I find that interesting, especially when he's paired with someone that pushes that desire.
I have to say i like that as well. It gets to a lot of interesting questions which can't really be discussed in other marvel properties. Jessica Jones is/was about agency. Daredevil is about sinning. Luke Cage will be about?
The main issue with the season i thought was something else.
Karen not knowing and their relationship
They needed to resolve that in the middle of the season. While its nice for the growth Karen had it seemed to bog down the plots. It was better with how they did the other thing related to that because it meant you had real potential growth.
Other than that i plowed through it and just wanted more. Give me season 3 goddamnit.
I'm hoping that Luke Cage is going to be about oppression and the violence done to those who are oppressed.
I mean, that isn't really outside of the type for Luke Cage, but much like the conversation that JJ was a part of with gaslighting and abuse, Cage can be part of with police violence and the oppression of black/latin/native/asian/middle eastern men and women in the US.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
I actually rather like Matt's character. I think it's interesting having a devout catholic who just plain enjoys beating the shit out of people, and has to deal with that.
He doesn't just enjoy the swashbuckling. He enjoys the violence. And I find that interesting, especially when he's paired with someone that pushes that desire.
I have to say i like that as well. It gets to a lot of interesting questions which can't really be discussed in other marvel properties. Jessica Jones is/was about agency. Daredevil is about sinning. Luke Cage will be about?
The main issue with the season i thought was something else.
Karen not knowing and their relationship
They needed to resolve that in the middle of the season. While its nice for the growth Karen had it seemed to bog down the plots. It was better with how they did the other thing related to that because it meant you had real potential growth.
Other than that i plowed through it and just wanted more. Give me season 3 goddamnit.
I'm hoping that Luke Cage is going to be about oppression and the violence done to those who are oppressed.
I mean, that isn't really outside of the type for Luke Cage, but much like the conversation that JJ was a part of with gaslighting and abuse, Cage can be part of with police violence and the oppression of black/latin/native/asian/middle eastern men and women in the US.
Will be interesting to see how those themes play out, considering the majority of the announced cast is African American, including all the villains. It's hard to touch on the oppression of minorities without touching on the demographics of the people doing most of the oppressing. That said, they may make it more about the oppression of people viewed as criminals, with the racial elements being more subtextual.
Speaking of the villains, I'm really wondering how they're going to actually challenge Luke in his series. There's going to need to be some opponents who can do more than just uselessly try to shoot/stab him.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
when i saw this[quote;34744725"]I actually rather like Matt's character. I think it's interesting having a devout catholic who just plain enjoys beating the shit out of people, and has to deal with that.
He doesn't just enjoy the swashbuckling. He enjoys the violence. And I find that interesting, especially when he's paired with someone that pushes that desire.
I have to say i like that as well. It gets to a lot of interesting questions which can't really be discussed in other marvel properties. Jessica Jones is/was about agency. Daredevil is about sinning. Luke Cage will be about?
The main issue with the season i thought was something else.
Karen not knowing and their relationship
They needed to resolve that in the middle of the season. While its nice for the growth Karen had it seemed to bog down the plots. It was better with how they did the other thing related to that because it meant you had real potential growth.
Other than that i plowed through it and just wanted more. Give me season 3 goddamnit.
I'm hoping that Luke Cage is going to be about oppression and the violence done to those who are oppressed.
I mean, that isn't really outside of the type for Luke Cage, but much like the conversation that JJ was a part of with gaslighting and abuse, Cage can be part of with police violence and the oppression of black/latin/native/asian/middle eastern men and women in the US.
Will be interesting to see how those themes play out, considering the majority of the announced cast is African American, including all the villains. It's hard to touch on the oppression of minorities without touching on the demographics of the people doing most of the oppressing. That said, they may make it more about the oppression of people viewed as criminals, with the racial elements being more subtextual.
Speaking of the villains, I'm really wondering how they're going to actually challenge Luke in his series. There's going to need to be some opponents who can do more than just uselessly try to shoot/stab him.
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cause they'll slam ya down to the street top
Black police showing out for the white cop
I mean black or otherwise minority police can also keep their own demographic down. Fergusson and other places with police racial profiling controversy had black cops, didn't diminish anything.
Holy shit that scene in the prison where Matt confronts Fisk is so tense. I really like how they show Fisk's rage building in a very subtle way until he just explodes. I thought they might end up fighting but daaaamn.
Also really digging his suit this season. The red eyes look super cool, just wished he used his billy club more. It doesn't serve as a grappling hook in this series, right? Every time we see him climb stuff he does that "Crouching Tiger" airy wall kicks.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I still don't think Matt beat Nobu in Season 1. He was on the defensive, getting killed, and accidentally hit the light which set Nobu on fire. So from that perspective, Nobu is still a threat in Season 2, as it's a reappearance from a guy Matt barely survived via luck.
Er, that wasn't luck.
Sometimes I think people forget the way Matt's super powers work. The flammable liquid? Matt could smell it. The electrical hum and heat coming off a light and its wiring, Matt can hear it and feel it. Top that off with that he can throw and bounce projectiles off of surfaces with enough accuracy and power to knock people out. People who he can feel right through to their bones and squishy bits like his sonar is a sort of x-ray vision to boot.
You ever played the Batman Arkham games? You know the like Predator vision modes Batman has, Detective mode and so on? The lock-on batarangs? Daredevil has that, only its even better. Dude is like a step away from seeing code of The Matrix like Neo.
Doesn't mean that Nobu wasn't a threat that nearly sliced some vital organs out though in Season 1. That he didn't though shouldn't be throwing shade on Nobu because the reaction times and speed at which Matt moves to avoid taking fatal damage allows him to register that someone is pulling a trigger and then dodge the path of the bullet. And Matt is no slouch in the tough bastard department either, he takes blows that would knock out or kill other people, some of them tough in their own right, and then just keeps on swinging.
My personal theory, I think Matt is a mutant, not just a blind ninja.
We have hashed this out before and it was like 50/50 with neither side convincing the other! But the argument for accident is that Matt was so badly injured that he wasn't capable of doing it on purpose. It was a desperate attempt to block the blade which just so happened to hit the light. And Matt does say soon after this that he hasn't killed anyone, so either Nobu didn't count because it was in self defence, or because he didn't mean to do it. ;D
Holy shit that scene in the prison where Matt confronts Fisk is so tense. I really like how they show Fisk's rage building in a very subtle way until he just explodes. I thought they might end up fighting but daaaamn.
Also really digging his suit this season. The red eyes look super cool, just wished he used his billy club more. It doesn't serve as a grappling hook in this series, right? Every time we see him climb stuff he does that "Crouching Tiger" airy wall kicks.
rooftop scene they lifted from Garth Ennis' Punisher comics run where Frank forces Matt to choose between him and a mobster type villain.
The fight that follows was pretty awesome tho. I feel like most of the Punisher stuff they've done in movies and TV are just a bunch of scenes boosted from the comics, and usually Garth Ennis.
Just freaking give us the Punisher Max run scene for scene alright? Especially Kathryn O'Brien.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I much prefer how it played out on the show.
comic version forces Daredevil to make the Punisher's choice. TV version has Daredevil find a 3rd way. Its showing that it doesn't have to be boiled down to Frank's way of doing things.
And crucially, Matt fails to save Grotto, so it still leaves you thinking shit, maybe he was wrong.
I liked this version only because this is a different version of Frank Castle.
The grizzled old Frank who was on the rooftop with Matt in the comics would never have given him a loaded gun (and he didn't). This younger, more emotionally disturbed Frank would, and did.
Don't remember the episode number, so series spoilers
I really liked the scene with Fisk and Matt. Because right after that when Fisk dabbed at his split lip and went 'wait a minute' "Get me everything we have on Matt Murdock" I was thinking "Hell yes, they're going to do Devil in Cell Block D!"
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The ninjas always worked better as a vague threat with little screen time, but taken seriously when they did. Their opening bit at the construction site was great, the duo having to give it their all and one of them getting wounded showed authentic stakes. After that though, it seemed a running joke of Suddenly Ninjas! They pop up everywhere, no explanation given and disappear through magically silent man hole covers. They attack populated centers, despite supposedly being supper secret and are really really bad at fighting. It's hard to take a scene where six guys with katana can swing away at DD and then lose to punches and kicks. Especially when everytime a street thug gang messes with DD, a few get a hit or two in using improvised weapons. Either street tough in hells kitchen are better fighters than immortal ninjas or there is some dissonance going on. This issue is capstoned in the climax battle when DD is so unconcerned about them that he takes a few minutes to mourn Electra in the middle of combat.
Felt a bit like they were trained by the people doing Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. Nobu was also underutilized as a villan.
In the comics Daredevil started off as a corny Spider-Man knockoff then turned into a gritty Batman knockoff, and finally settled down into a comfortable middle ground between the two extremes. Matt Murdock is a guy who loves life. He loves the ladies, he loves fine wines, food, and cars, he loves his friends, and he loves being a swashbuckling Errol Flynn style superhero. You need that side of him to serve as contrast for when his life inevitably falls apart and he goes down one of his depression spirals. This season contained too much of the latter and not enough of the former.
Hopefully next season opens with Matt trying to turn things around and balance his life better before the villain d'jour shows up and drives things back into the dirt again.
#2 - They made me feel sorry for a crazy psychopath. Not sure how they pulled that off, but they were able to. Amazing. :?
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I agree with this emphatically because this is supposed to be heading for a defenders team up and so far Matt, Jessica and Luke have all been slight variations on "serious, damaged, just wants to do the right thing"
Setting Fisk up like that, very well done, making him scared in the beginning but acclimating and creating his little rascals gang, and then setting up Castle.
And I like when Punisher kiwls the bad guyz, stabbing them with the shivs and the broom handles and the bone tomahawk
In fact, this might be the first time the show successfully carried three plots with Matt (no Elektra so much better!), Karen pretending to be Lois Lane, and Punisher/Fisk.
Prison spoiler:
That by itself must shake Matt's convictions that one can put their faith in the justice system to its core.
I thought the teaser they showed when I finished Daredevil had a pretty good feel to it.
It was pretty much "are you serious, whitey?" Luke from the comics.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I only say that because both in that scene and in Jessica Jones Luke spent a lot of his time as a fairly stoic and reserved character. It made sense, he was trying to keep a low profile, but even when he got angry he tended to seethe with anger internally more than anything else. Between him and Daredevil we've got two characters who have mastered the stoic/tortured hero to different degrees. We don't know exactly what they're going to do with Iron Fist, but in his earlier comics Danny was also a stoic, vengeful type. He mellowed out later on and I certainly hope they use that version of him, but the possibility remains that we could end up with three very similar characters in terms of mood/personality.
Mike Colter's great at those "are you serious, whitey?" moments, he plays resignation very well, but I'd also like to see him display a little more bombast when Luke gets worked up about something. Luke Cage needs the ability to flip out over some shit, whether it's the man trying to keep him down or Dr. Doom stiffing him on a paycheck.
Which one?
Now there is a cross over I'd like to see.
To be fair, they turtles were mutated by the same accident that gave Matt his powers.
My other complaint was that Frank showed up way too late. The fight was basically already over, they might as well have not had him at all, and then showed him with the vest in a post-scene killing some gang members or something. Especially since it seemed pretty clear that the number of ninjas on the roof got cut in half during one of the camera cuts. Why not have Frank thin their numbers to get to that point?
So I watch the second.
Same. Damn. Thing.
I know it's a point of contention, but
Likewise in the show The Hand has no particularly clear goals or motives. Everything is vague. Stick describes The Hand as being an organization just out for power and wealth, with maybe a bit of world domination thrown in. Nobu says they live to serve the Black Sky. The Black Sky seems to roughly equate to The Beast (The Hand worship it and it manifests as a possessing force in humans) but the exact nature of the Black Sky is never elaborated upon, nor are The Hand ever given any real reason for worshiping/serving it.
In short, the comics don't really provide very good or interesting goals for The Hand. The show doesn't seem to know what to do about this. Rather than create an entirely new philosophy/creed/motive for the ninjas, it opts to obfuscate everything while dropping the rather uninspired name of The Beast for the Black Sky instead, while still keeping things mysterious enough that they don't have to depict The Hand as an apocalyptic cult.
It's not a particularly satisfying solution to the problem the source material presents, but it's an understandable one.
And they didn't make Nobu a very interesting villain since he's just a physical threat. He's not a master manipulator or schemer who can turn people against Daredevil or lay clever traps for him. He's just there for Daredevil to beat up. The fact that he can come back from death wasn't even really that significant.
Er, that wasn't luck.
Sometimes I think people forget the way Matt's super powers work. The flammable liquid? Matt could smell it. The electrical hum and heat coming off a light and its wiring, Matt can hear it and feel it. Top that off with that he can throw and bounce projectiles off of surfaces with enough accuracy and power to knock people out. People who he can feel right through to their bones and squishy bits like his sonar is a sort of x-ray vision to boot.
You ever played the Batman Arkham games? You know the like Predator vision modes Batman has, Detective mode and so on? The lock-on batarangs? Daredevil has that, only its even better. Dude is like a step away from seeing code of The Matrix like Neo.
Doesn't mean that Nobu wasn't a threat that nearly sliced some vital organs out though in Season 1. That he didn't though shouldn't be throwing shade on Nobu because the reaction times and speed at which Matt moves to avoid taking fatal damage allows him to register that someone is pulling a trigger and then dodge the path of the bullet. And Matt is no slouch in the tough bastard department either, he takes blows that would knock out or kill other people, some of them tough in their own right, and then just keeps on swinging.
My personal theory, I think Matt is a mutant, not just a blind ninja.
He doesn't just enjoy the swashbuckling. He enjoys the violence. And I find that interesting, especially when he's paired with someone that pushes that desire.
I have to say i like that as well. It gets to a lot of interesting questions which can't really be discussed in other marvel properties. Jessica Jones is/was about agency. Daredevil is about sinning. Luke Cage will be about?
The main issue with the season i thought was something else.
They needed to resolve that in the middle of the season. While its nice for the growth Karen had it seemed to bog down the plots. It was better with how they did the other thing related to that because it meant you had real potential growth.
Other than that i plowed through it and just wanted more. Give me season 3 goddamnit.
But that fight. Holy shit.
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- Did Karen ever formally quit? She just seemed to start working for the Bulletin while still being in Nelson & Murdock's employ. Nice that she got a huge office, too, considering she's never published anything or has any journalism experience. She'll be popular in the lunchroom, no doubt.
- I'm so sick of this fortune cookie ninja shit that never goes anywhere. Black Sky! Black Sky! Who cares? Either deal with it or drop it, don't spend 5 episodes talking around it.
- Matt Murdock is a schmuck and was the least interesting person on the show this season
- Oh god secret identity plot lines are sooooo tedious and played out
Edit: Also like half the police force who was corrupt.
That approach definitely has its appeal, I just think it's limited. There's only so much you can do with "Matt loves hurting people but feels guilty about it." I would also argue they haven't totally sold the idea that he likes the swashbuckling part; so far the show has focused almost entirely on Matt's love of violence and less so on his zest for life in general.
Mid season spoilers:
The way I see it, why call him "Daredevil" unless he acts like an actual daredevil? If you just want the contrast of his name/costume and his religious/heroic nature then you might as well just stick with "Devil" or "The Devil of Hell's Kitchen." He needs a bit of Evil Knievel in there with all the tortured Catholic guilt. It makes him something more than red Batman.
I'm hoping that Luke Cage is going to be about oppression and the violence done to those who are oppressed.
I mean, that isn't really outside of the type for Luke Cage, but much like the conversation that JJ was a part of with gaslighting and abuse, Cage can be part of with police violence and the oppression of black/latin/native/asian/middle eastern men and women in the US.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Will be interesting to see how those themes play out, considering the majority of the announced cast is African American, including all the villains. It's hard to touch on the oppression of minorities without touching on the demographics of the people doing most of the oppressing. That said, they may make it more about the oppression of people viewed as criminals, with the racial elements being more subtextual.
Speaking of the villains, I'm really wondering how they're going to actually challenge Luke in his series. There's going to need to be some opponents who can do more than just uselessly try to shoot/stab him.
I mean black or otherwise minority police can also keep their own demographic down. Fergusson and other places with police racial profiling controversy had black cops, didn't diminish anything.
Also really digging his suit this season. The red eyes look super cool, just wished he used his billy club more. It doesn't serve as a grappling hook in this series, right? Every time we see him climb stuff he does that "Crouching Tiger" airy wall kicks.
We have hashed this out before and it was like 50/50 with neither side convincing the other! But the argument for accident is that Matt was so badly injured that he wasn't capable of doing it on purpose. It was a desperate attempt to block the blade which just so happened to hit the light. And Matt does say soon after this that he hasn't killed anyone, so either Nobu didn't count because it was in self defence, or because he didn't mean to do it. ;D
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Just freaking give us the Punisher Max run scene for scene alright? Especially Kathryn O'Brien.
And crucially, Matt fails to save Grotto, so it still leaves you thinking shit, maybe he was wrong.