I think they're kind of anxious about the possible Tory vote, given that their messaging of "you can safely vote for us without us getting in" might be just enough sugaring for that particular pill
I think they're kind of anxious about the possible Tory vote, given that their messaging of "you can safely vote for us without us getting in" might be just enough sugaring for that particular pill
I had a 'Conservative' Election leaflet through the door the other day. Including Party logo and the legally obligated printers note total mentions for each party were
SNP: 14
Labour: 10
Lib Dem: 2
Conservatives: 4
Ruth Davidson is mentioned 11 times, Nicola Sturgeon is mentioned once.
The rebrand of the Conservatives in Scotland as the "Ruth Davidson for Second Place Anti-Referendum Party" strikes me as being the ruthlessly metric driven outcome of a series of focus groups. Conservative leaflets can't stop banging on about the referendum, try to avoid saying the word Conservative at any cost and say Ruth at any available opportunity.
The Conservatives have learnt the lesson of Labour. Labour fucking hated Alex Salmond and focused their 2007, 2011 and SindyRef campaign around telling everyone how awful Alex Salmond was. Alex Salmond was at the time the most popular politician in Scotland - Labour couldn't understand why everyone else didn't hate him as much as they did and thier campaigns were failures (if you want to quibble with me over SindyRef being a success we can maybe have a debate involving the 1 Labour MP left in Scotland over how a 37% lead was turne dinto a 11% lead).
The Conservatives will try and avoid naming Nicola Sturgeon as much as possible as she now has the mantle of most popular politician in SCotland.
I think they're kind of anxious about the possible Tory vote, given that their messaging of "you can safely vote for us without us getting in" might be just enough sugaring for that particular pill
I...
The Scottish Tories are hoping to convince you to vote for them on the grounds they won't get in?
But surely if I were a person who wanted them to stay out of government (and I am) not voting for them is far more likely to accomplish that?
I think they're kind of anxious about the possible Tory vote, given that their messaging of "you can safely vote for us without us getting in" might be just enough sugaring for that particular pill
I...
The Scottish Tories are hoping to convince you to vote for them on the grounds they won't get in?
But surely if I were a person who wanted them to stay out of government (and I am) not voting for them is far more likely to accomplish that?
Their entire campaign is based around Ruth Davidson being much more popular than the Conservative brand (due in part to the Scottish political media giving her an easy ride and ignoring all the times when she comes across as a typical sneering Tory) and trying to grab Unionist votes from Labour and the Lib Dems. Their pitch is "Vote Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition". Their top 3 policy areas out of 6 on the flyer I have are about opposing a second referendum.
I think they're kind of anxious about the possible Tory vote, given that their messaging of "you can safely vote for us without us getting in" might be just enough sugaring for that particular pill
I...
The Scottish Tories are hoping to convince you to vote for them on the grounds they won't get in?
But surely if I were a person who wanted them to stay out of government (and I am) not voting for them is far more likely to accomplish that?
They've set opposition as their objective, so the line they're pushing is that you can vote Tory for a Tory opposition, as opposed to a Tory government
It makes a certain degree of sense, in that there are areas that would naturally lean Tory, but don't vote Tory because of the toxic associations
It feels like they're trying to get people over their gut reaction
I can almost see what they're going on about. The SNP have no effective opposition at all right now, and regardless of whether you think the SNP are good or not no one can deny a completely unopposed one party state is a bad thing for democracy. There's around 50% of the Scottish electorate out there right now who didn't vote SNP and are represented by pretty much no one.
That said will it ever make me put an "X" in the Tory box in a polling station? Not bloody likely.
I'll suck up my distaste and vote Labour before that happens. Short of completely severing all ties with the Westminster Conservative party and blazing their own trail the Scottish Tories will never shed the lingering stink of Thatcherism that makes people up here hate them.
It seems like the in campaign is fairly kicking it recently as far as media coverage goes.
Every news story I've seen (which when I think about is 90% BBC in one form or another so maybe not that representative a view) seems to be a fairly important person who should know what they're talking about making a statement that we're better off in than out, and the no campaign making a counter-statement roughly to the effect of 'NO U'.
Gove's speech yesterday operated on a pretty heady spirit of optimism and little detail. The day after the In campaign released a 200 page report the Out campaign said well that's nonsense but we can't prove it just trust us.
I doubt anyone voting will read the report, but hopefully they'll pay attention to the fact that only one side is producing evidence of any kind.
I've been playing a game on my morning drive into work as the news comes on.
Each time it starts a story about [whoever] warning that leaving the EU will [have an economic cost/reduce our security/increase global warming], I try to predict what the Leave campaign will respond with before it's mentioned on the radio.
I lost this morning, as I went with the 2 to 1 favourite, 'fearmongering', and they opted for 'hypocrisy'.
As a EU Remainer who voted Yes to Scottish independence I am already very tired of this stale retread of IndyRef campaigning.
I'm having a strange emotional reaction as Remain deploy a carbon copy of Project Fear in support of their campaign - I'm thinking negative thoughts about Remain as I read another "Voting Leave will mean we have to burn babies for fuel" advert or speech while at the same time hoping Remain will win.
My only drop of sunshine is that like Scottish Labour in IndyRef the Conservative Remain faction are doing their very, very best to try and piss off an alienate half of their voting base.
As a EU Remainer who voted Yes to Scottish independence I am already very tired of this stale retread of IndyRef campaigning.
I'm having a strange emotional reaction as Remain deploy a carbon copy of Project Fear in support of their campaign - I'm thinking negative thoughts about Remain as I read another "Voting Leave will mean we have to burn babies for fuel" advert or speech while at the same time hoping Remain will win.
My only drop of sunshine is that like Scottish Labour in IndyRef the Conservative Remain faction are doing their very, very best to try and piss off an alienate half of their voting base.
While I agree it would be nice to see some arguments as to why Remaining is good rather than Leaving is bad, I do think Leaving is indeed bad and there will be significant consequences for Leaving.
I do agree it would be nice if someone explained why the EU benefits us.
Also it's nice that it's the Remain/Leave debate rather than the Yes/No debate. I think it's a lot clearer than a Yes/No question would have been.
I'll admit that the negative campaigning strategy the Conservatives employ is cynical but that doesn't mean there isn't two sides to every issue and we need to know the bad as well as the good. The fact it's a cynical ploy to play on peoples fears doesn't mean every problem they highlight is necessarily fabricated. Lest we forget the negative campaign during the indyref highlighted the issue on relying on volatile oil markets as a primary source of revenue. The SNP made a lot of noise about that being fear mongering and what happened? The oil market crashed.
It's a more nuanced issue than saying any mention of negative fallout from a decision like this is unwarranted negativity.
as with the Scottish referendum, anybody putting themselves on the line to actively defend the status quo, finds themselves having to... defend the status quo. And the existing headlines are not the most pleasant.
in the meanwhile, the pro-change side can spin the most ridiculous bullshit on the degree of unicorn-powered sunshine and happiness that would result
The issue I have is that a lot of trying to weigh up in vs out comes down to how certain you are that you understand the priorities and motivations of the other entities (countries, businesses, the EU itself, etc) that will have influence over how things go in the event of "out".
In particular I'm concerned that it will be in the interests of the EU to make life for a post brexit UK as difficult as possible as a means to discourage other nations from considering it.
Similarly, I'm suspicious of claims from the out side that the EU will be falling over themselves to make concessions on things they aren't willing to budge on while we're a member.
The issue I have is that a lot of trying to weigh up in vs out comes down to how certain you are that you understand the priorities and motivations of the other entities (countries, businesses, the EU itself, etc) that will have influence over how things go in the event of "out".
In particular I'm concerned that it will be in the interests of the EU to make life for a post brexit UK as difficult as possible as a means to discourage other nations from considering it.
Similarly, I'm suspicious of claims from the out side that the EU will be falling over themselves to make concessions on things they aren't willing to budge on while we're a member.
Nonsense I'm sure the French won't seize on this chance to pay off a shitload of old scores and see our agricultural sector die in a fucking fire.
0
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Despite its name, there is one thing the Vote Leave campaign should not have left for so long: registering a domain name. The delay by the anti-EU organisation meant that up to 100,000 people who tried to access voteleave.com, co.uk or .net were rickrolled – redirected to a YouTube clip of Rick Astley’s 1987 hit Never Gonna Give You Up.
Leave's response to Obama sticking his oar in is horrendous on many different levels. Just to grasp how bad they are handling this here is Alex Salmond's response to Obama sticking his oar in during the IndyRef
I have revised my EURef pessimism by the way, 60%+ Remain vote. Leave leadership is just off their nut bonkers.
I am assuming it will be down to the wire and am encouraging everyone I know to vote. Not just for 50%+1, but for a vote that actually has a chance of being decisive for this generation. Sure, I doubt anyone left of Farage will open Pandora's Box again, but it would be nice if the result would get the Dailies back to moaning about pensions for a few years.
Zac Goldsmith has gone full mental in the London mayoral election. To the extent that lifelong Tory columnist Peter Oborne (guy who resigned from the Telegraph over their spiking stories unfavourable to their advertisers) says he's voting for Khan.
Zac Goldsmith has gone full mental in the London mayoral election. To the extent that lifelong Tory columnist Peter Oborne (guy who resigned from the Telegraph over their spiking stories unfavourable to their advertisers) says he's voting for Khan.
KHHHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
Cameron's performance at PMQs was pretty distasteful with regards to Khan.
Obama just casually tore chunks off the Leave campaign in the joint press conference. Awesome.
Leave have had 1 and a half years to study IndyRef. Apparently they paid it zero heed. Utter madness by them.
Salmond's response to Obama contained not one word of criticism of Obama. In the same situation Leave have gone for a bunch of crypto colonial racist shit.
There was lots of online abuse in the IndyRef. In Scotland it was all done by random anonymous tools. In EURef the online abuse is done by the Leave leadership.
In Broken IndyRef promise news I see the "Vote No to guarantee 13 Type 23 destroyers being built on the Clyde" has all come to a crashing halt.
That will help the Conservative vote in Glasgow I'm sure.
It's frustrating as hell but I'm not really drawing a line between the independence movement and the ongoing gutting of the navy. They're two different buckets of shit.
+1
Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Nice one Obama. A cold hard jab of reality for the Leave campaign.
Yet another example of Obama embarrassing himself with his relations with Britain and involving himself with an internal issue. Good thing that the UK is central to US politics in Europe, and the majority of the American public disagree with his interference. And let's be serious, he's making empty threats here.
I think it's overdoing it a bit to say Obama embarrassed himself
Certainly he came out of it looking considerably more reasonable than anyone on the leave side
And there is definitely an air of hypocrisy about the reaction towards international intervention in the EU referendum as opposed to the Scottish independence referendum
I can see both sides of it. It's not really Obamas business, but he points that out himself. And in fairness as POTUS he does get to chime in when people on either side start making promises about what the USA will do, he is entitled to say if they're full of shit when they put words in his mouth.
That said the "oh we lost a game of ping pong me and my buddy Dave, what fun" part was a little cringeworthy.
Any railing against an American daring to intervene in sovereign affairs only serves to make Leave look a bit xenophobic. So probably has little to no effect on anybody's position in the matter.
Posts
Had a nice little chat with them
I think they're kind of anxious about the possible Tory vote, given that their messaging of "you can safely vote for us without us getting in" might be just enough sugaring for that particular pill
I had a 'Conservative' Election leaflet through the door the other day. Including Party logo and the legally obligated printers note total mentions for each party were
SNP: 14
Labour: 10
Lib Dem: 2
Conservatives: 4
Ruth Davidson is mentioned 11 times, Nicola Sturgeon is mentioned once.
The rebrand of the Conservatives in Scotland as the "Ruth Davidson for Second Place Anti-Referendum Party" strikes me as being the ruthlessly metric driven outcome of a series of focus groups. Conservative leaflets can't stop banging on about the referendum, try to avoid saying the word Conservative at any cost and say Ruth at any available opportunity.
The Conservatives have learnt the lesson of Labour. Labour fucking hated Alex Salmond and focused their 2007, 2011 and SindyRef campaign around telling everyone how awful Alex Salmond was. Alex Salmond was at the time the most popular politician in Scotland - Labour couldn't understand why everyone else didn't hate him as much as they did and thier campaigns were failures (if you want to quibble with me over SindyRef being a success we can maybe have a debate involving the 1 Labour MP left in Scotland over how a 37% lead was turne dinto a 11% lead).
The Conservatives will try and avoid naming Nicola Sturgeon as much as possible as she now has the mantle of most popular politician in SCotland.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
I...
The Scottish Tories are hoping to convince you to vote for them on the grounds they won't get in?
But surely if I were a person who wanted them to stay out of government (and I am) not voting for them is far more likely to accomplish that?
Their entire campaign is based around Ruth Davidson being much more popular than the Conservative brand (due in part to the Scottish political media giving her an easy ride and ignoring all the times when she comes across as a typical sneering Tory) and trying to grab Unionist votes from Labour and the Lib Dems. Their pitch is "Vote Ruth Davidson for a Strong Opposition". Their top 3 policy areas out of 6 on the flyer I have are about opposing a second referendum.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
They've set opposition as their objective, so the line they're pushing is that you can vote Tory for a Tory opposition, as opposed to a Tory government
It makes a certain degree of sense, in that there are areas that would naturally lean Tory, but don't vote Tory because of the toxic associations
It feels like they're trying to get people over their gut reaction
That said will it ever make me put an "X" in the Tory box in a polling station? Not bloody likely.
I'll suck up my distaste and vote Labour before that happens. Short of completely severing all ties with the Westminster Conservative party and blazing their own trail the Scottish Tories will never shed the lingering stink of Thatcherism that makes people up here hate them.
Every news story I've seen (which when I think about is 90% BBC in one form or another so maybe not that representative a view) seems to be a fairly important person who should know what they're talking about making a statement that we're better off in than out, and the no campaign making a counter-statement roughly to the effect of 'NO U'.
I doubt anyone voting will read the report, but hopefully they'll pay attention to the fact that only one side is producing evidence of any kind.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Each time it starts a story about [whoever] warning that leaving the EU will [have an economic cost/reduce our security/increase global warming], I try to predict what the Leave campaign will respond with before it's mentioned on the radio.
I lost this morning, as I went with the 2 to 1 favourite, 'fearmongering', and they opted for 'hypocrisy'.
I'm having a strange emotional reaction as Remain deploy a carbon copy of Project Fear in support of their campaign - I'm thinking negative thoughts about Remain as I read another "Voting Leave will mean we have to burn babies for fuel" advert or speech while at the same time hoping Remain will win.
My only drop of sunshine is that like Scottish Labour in IndyRef the Conservative Remain faction are doing their very, very best to try and piss off an alienate half of their voting base.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
While I agree it would be nice to see some arguments as to why Remaining is good rather than Leaving is bad, I do think Leaving is indeed bad and there will be significant consequences for Leaving.
I do agree it would be nice if someone explained why the EU benefits us.
Also it's nice that it's the Remain/Leave debate rather than the Yes/No debate. I think it's a lot clearer than a Yes/No question would have been.
It's a more nuanced issue than saying any mention of negative fallout from a decision like this is unwarranted negativity.
in the meanwhile, the pro-change side can spin the most ridiculous bullshit on the degree of unicorn-powered sunshine and happiness that would result
so, fear and more fear instead
In particular I'm concerned that it will be in the interests of the EU to make life for a post brexit UK as difficult as possible as a means to discourage other nations from considering it.
Similarly, I'm suspicious of claims from the out side that the EU will be falling over themselves to make concessions on things they aren't willing to budge on while we're a member.
Nonsense I'm sure the French won't seize on this chance to pay off a shitload of old scores and see our agricultural sector die in a fucking fire.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Please Leave
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/08/alex-salmond-obama-cameron-scottish-independence
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
I am gobsmacked. When Nigel Farage is surprising me with how crass he is then you've really pushed the boat out.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
I am assuming it will be down to the wire and am encouraging everyone I know to vote. Not just for 50%+1, but for a vote that actually has a chance of being decisive for this generation. Sure, I doubt anyone left of Farage will open Pandora's Box again, but it would be nice if the result would get the Dailies back to moaning about pensions for a few years.
KHHHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Cameron's performance at PMQs was pretty distasteful with regards to Khan.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Leave have had 1 and a half years to study IndyRef. Apparently they paid it zero heed. Utter madness by them.
Salmond's response to Obama contained not one word of criticism of Obama. In the same situation Leave have gone for a bunch of crypto colonial racist shit.
There was lots of online abuse in the IndyRef. In Scotland it was all done by random anonymous tools. In EURef the online abuse is done by the Leave leadership.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
Almost.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
So, this is currently happening where I live.
Stone me, the 'Leave' campaign is utterly bonkers.
You should probably take the flag down off yer house and tell yer dad no to do it again.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
That will help the Conservative vote in Glasgow I'm sure.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
It's frustrating as hell but I'm not really drawing a line between the independence movement and the ongoing gutting of the navy. They're two different buckets of shit.
Boris is upset! It's super effective.
A: "No You!" B: "No You!", ad infinitum.
Yet another example of Obama embarrassing himself with his relations with Britain and involving himself with an internal issue. Good thing that the UK is central to US politics in Europe, and the majority of the American public disagree with his interference. And let's be serious, he's making empty threats here.
on the other hand, lame duck presidents get a bit of wink-wink leeway
Certainly he came out of it looking considerably more reasonable than anyone on the leave side
And there is definitely an air of hypocrisy about the reaction towards international intervention in the EU referendum as opposed to the Scottish independence referendum
That said the "oh we lost a game of ping pong me and my buddy Dave, what fun" part was a little cringeworthy.